The Case for Alcohol Based on Romans 14

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From the article: The Case for Alcohol Based on Romans 14

Thoughts? (Mainly for those that have reservations about alcohol)

I think the point is just that it is better not to drink wine. But it is not prohibited. And I think it is more about not to be drunken.

Don't be drunken with wine, in which is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
Efe. 5:18

If one can drink so that he is not drunken, then it is not bad.
 
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BobRyan

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From the article: The Case for Alcohol Based on Romans 14

Thoughts? (Mainly for those that have reservations about alcohol)

I guess you could make that same case for cocaine in Rom 14 and every other drug known to mankind.

That article is a bit bogus in terms of its guesswork.

"Here the Apostle Paul gives pastoral guidance to the members in Rome on food. Apparently, some members that ate meat were looking down on those that didn’t consume meat and vice versa. Paul identities the group that consumed only vegetables as weak in faith. Paul isn’t using the term weak as a negative term but rather a descriptive one. The church in Rome included both Jewish and Gentile Christians. The weak faith probably refers to Jewish-Christians that only ate vegetables"

Interesting guess. but not what the Bible says about it.

1. Jews were required to eat meat at Passover and other services as part of their act of worship. They were not vegetarian.

2. In the letter to Corinth -

in 1 Cor 8 Paul points out that is the weak gentiles that having become Christian seek to avoid paganism to the point of fearing to eat meat offered to idols. Paul makes the case that Jews are used to the idea of no other gods but the One God and have no problem eating meat offered to "stones" that others think of as if they were actual "gods".

1 Cor 8
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

9 But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak

1 Cor 10
25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience’ sake; 26 for the earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains. 27 If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This is meat sacrificed to idols,” do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience’ sake; 29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man’s;

The "weak" person is the gentile who is accustomed to serving idols "until now" until becoming Christian and now his/her conscience is "defiled" if they eat food offered to idols the way they used to do as pagans.
 
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Jipsah

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I guess you could make that same case for cocaine in Rom 14 and every other drug known to mankind.
I don't recall our Lord ever turning flour into cocaine.
 
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Christ is Lord

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That article is a bit bogus in terms of its guesswork.

"Here the Apostle Paul gives pastoral guidance to the members in Rome on food. Apparently, some members that ate meat were looking down on those that didn’t consume meat and vice versa. Paul identities the group that consumed only vegetables as weak in faith. Paul isn’t using the term weak as a negative term but rather a descriptive one. The church in Rome included both Jewish and Gentile Christians. The weak faith probably refers to Jewish-Christians that only ate vegetables"

Interesting guess. but not what the Bible says about it.

Hi Bob,

I am not sure how that's an interesting guess. It's not guesswork to say the church in Rome included both Jews and Gentiles. We know it included both because Paul even tells them to Romans 16:3 to greet "Priscilla and Aquila". We also, know that the Jews were exiled from Rome in around the 40s AD by the Emperor Claudius. And by the time Paul is writing his letter they were allowed back in Rome. Also, the content of Romans, the way Paul goes into detail about the law and passages like Romans 11:13-32 and Romans 15:7-12.

1. Jews were required to eat meat at Passover and other services as part of their act of worship. They were not vegetarian.

Now, you're using guess work. You're assuming that Jewish-Christians are still celebrating Passover.

2. In the letter to Corinth -

in 1 Cor 8 Paul points out that is the weak gentiles that having become Christian seek to avoid paganism to the point of fearing to eat meat offered to idols. Paul makes the case that Jews are used to the idea of no other gods but the One God and have no problem eating meat offered to "stones" that others think of as if they were actual "gods".

1 Cor 8
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

9 But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak

1 Cor 10
25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience’ sake; 26 for the earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains. 27 If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This is meat sacrificed to idols,” do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience’ sake; 29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man’s;

The "weak" person is the gentile who is accustomed to serving idols "until now" until becoming Christian and now his/her conscience is "defiled" if they eat food offered to idols the way they used to do as pagans.

Just because Paul referred to the weak in other letters doesn't mean he has the same people in mind when he is speaking in Romans. Paul doesn't mention "foods sacrificed to idols" add that to the fact he is taking about the observance of special days make it unlikely it's the same issue in Romans.

Also, see Romans 14:5-6

"5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord"

Doesn't that at the very least sound like Jewish Holy Days?
 
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Christ is Lord

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What if communion includes wine (the kind with alcohol in it, not some substitute like grape juice), that cannot be avoided "in front of" people who have scruples about alcohol for religious reasons.

That's a tough one. My question would be if taking part in the Eucharistic serve is so important to you why would you attend a church that doesn't have the opinion of nonalcoholic wine?
 
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GodLovesCats

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What if communion includes wine (the kind with alcohol in it, not some substitute like grape juice), that cannot be avoided "in front of" people who have scruples about alcohol for religious reasons.

If a church serves wine for communion, obviously the whole congregation should be OK with it. Christians who are bothered by it need to read the Bible more because grape juice turned into wine in Biblical times.
 
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Christ is Lord

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I guess you could make that same case for cocaine in Rom 14 and every other drug known to mankind.

Alcohol isn't on the same level as cocaine. And I am not sure how you can even make that case based on Romans 14. Romans 14 isn't a pass to do whatever you want. However, it does set Biblical precedent to be mindful of how your actions might affect others.
 
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bèlla

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Greetings,

I don’t believe alcohol consumption is a sin. Each person must adhere to their conscience and the Holy Spirit’s guidance. However, I don’t agree with impressing personal convictions on others. Subjects of this nature often head in that direction.

~Bella
 
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Christ is Lord

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Greetings,

I don’t believe alcohol consumption is a sin. Each person must adhere to their conscience and the Holy Spirit’s guidance. However, I don’t agree with impressing personal convictions on others. Subjects of this nature often head in that direction.

~Bella

Hi Bella,

Always nice to hear your thoughts :). I agree with you that's not not sinful. I don't think the article was trying to impose a personal conviction on others:

"Personally, I grew up in a tradition that prohibited alcohol, even though I know it’s not sinful I still have reservations about drinking. Drinking for me would not come from a position of faith therefore, I don’t consume. So, the next time you’re about to drink, ask yourself if you’re drinking out of faith and be sensitive to those around you."
 
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GingerBeer

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That's a tough one. My question would be if taking part in the Eucharistic serve is so important to you why would you attend a church that doesn't have the opinion of nonalcoholic wine?
I think that Orthodox Christians use wine, Catholics too, Lutherans and many Anglicans also so that would be at least two thirds of Christians who are regularly offered wine as part of their worship of God. And isn't the Eucharist important for every Christian?
 
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From the article: The Case for Alcohol Based on Romans 14

Thoughts? (Mainly for those that have reservations about alcohol)

The culture that Jesus was raised in drank wine.
Jesus made wine.
Jesus drank wine.
The only thing Scripture condemns is getting drunk.

Isaiah 25:6 On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine – the best of meats and the finest of wines.

Isaiah 29:9 New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
9 Be stunned and amazed,
blind yourselves and be sightless;
be drunk, but not from wine,
stagger, but not from beer.

As far as I know modern drinks are not offered to idols.
 
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Christ is Lord

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I think that Orthodox Christians use wine, Catholics too, Lutherans and many Anglicans also so that would be at least two thirds of Christians who are regularly offered wine as part of the worship of God. And isn't the Eucharist import ant for every Christian?

What I meant is if it's the Eucharist is so important to you and the church you're attending only uses alcoholic wine you probably should find a different fellowship. I know of churches that use grape juice instead of wine.
 
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