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Did we miss our turn somewhere?

nolidad

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It has a lot to do with it. If the kingdom has been here since Jesus preached it, and only the born again can see it, many looking for a future physical Millennium might not be born again.

Well we can rest assured Jesus kingdom is not reigning on earth since Jesus said.

All teachings of life in the kingdom contradict that!

Maybe to you they might not be born again- But to Jesus that is not a requirement. All a person need do is trust in HIs death and REsurrection for the full payment for all their sin!. But those who reject that Jesus is physically returning to establish a physical kingdom might be the ones in trouble!

MAtt. 25:

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Jesus comes back and sets up a physical kingdom here on earth.

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

"come" is the 2nd perfect active participle. The best Englsih translation would be "Jesus is coming in the flesh". So anyone who denies Jesus is coming back in the flesh is not of God!

Your error is you confuse what theologians call the mystery form of the kingdom (th eone within men) with the physical kingdom which is to come!
 
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nolidad

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One of your replies showed a failure to grasp the meaning.

Well of course I do not grasp it! I hold to a literal rendering of Scripture (accepting symbols) and do not allegforize. Once again why should I accept your meaning over say the MOrmons, Jw's, Romanism, etc. What makes your meaning or rerendering of the words of Scripture more authoritative than others? Versus accepting teh Scriptures at face value and when symbols are involved letting the rest of scripture define the symbols.
 
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Dave L

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Well we can rest assured Jesus kingdom is not reigning on earth since Jesus said.

All teachings of life in the kingdom contradict that!

Maybe to you they might not be born again- But to Jesus that is not a requirement. All a person need do is trust in HIs death and REsurrection for the full payment for all their sin!. But those who reject that Jesus is physically returning to establish a physical kingdom might be the ones in trouble!

MAtt. 25:

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Jesus comes back and sets up a physical kingdom here on earth.

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

"come" is the 2nd perfect active participle. The best Englsih translation would be "Jesus is coming in the flesh". So anyone who denies Jesus is coming back in the flesh is not of God!

Your error is you confuse what theologians call the mystery form of the kingdom (th eone within men) with the physical kingdom which is to come!
You are confusing the present kingdom with it's eternal state yet to happen in the new heavens and earth.
 
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Dave L

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Well of course I do not grasp it! I hold to a literal rendering of Scripture (accepting symbols) and do not allegforize. Once again why should I accept your meaning over say the MOrmons, Jw's, Romanism, etc. What makes your meaning or rerendering of the words of Scripture more authoritative than others? Versus accepting teh Scriptures at face value and when symbols are involved letting the rest of scripture define the symbols.
You might think so, but as I recall, your reply showed a failure to comprehend.
 
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sdowney717

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Bound from deceiving all whom God chose to save. But blinding the minds of the rest.
I agree but with reservations, the elect are not blinded after God chooses to reveal Christ in them when God is pleased to reveal Christ in them (God's perfect time for them.) Paul was elect to be saved, yet blinded and describes it like this when God saved him, that scales fell from his eyes. Paul was struck with a physical blindness that demonstrated his own spiritual blindness, but in Christ the veil is taken away.
Our individual election was given to us before time began.

2 Timothy 1:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
Not Ashamed of the Gospel
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

Galatians 1
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
 
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BABerean2

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Those are the angels who sinned in Genesis 6 and came down and had sex with human women. We know this because Paul in Ephesians, Jesus in the gospels, God in JOb and Peter all say Satan is loose and still the god of this world for a short time.

Apparently, either you did not read my last post, or you are attempting to ignore what I said in an effort to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

The text says the wicked angels are in "chains of darkness".

It does not say they are bound in all aspects.

Satan is free to deceive all of those not indwelled with the Spirit of God, described in 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27.
However, Satan and the other wicked angels are now banished from being in the presence of God's Holy light.


We see below that Spirit beings cannot be bound in normal chains.

Mar 5:2 And when He had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

Mar 5:3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains,
Mar 5:4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him.

.
 
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HopeInJesusOnly

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It has a lot to do with it. If the kingdom has been here since Jesus preached it, and only the born again can see it, many looking for a future physical Millennium might not be born again.

I think I understand, and this is why I worry. I no longer see it. I see a crueler world. I actually thought the rapture had taken place, but in fact, it's just as bad...I seem to have inadvertently fallen away. I cannot see the kingdom here on earth. :(
 
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jgr

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I think I understand, and this is why I worry. I no longer see it. I see a crueler world. I actually thought the rapture had taken place, but in fact, it's just as bad...I seem to have inadvertently fallen away. I cannot see the kingdom here on earth. :(

Be encouraged, friend. If you've accepted Christ as Savior and Lord, you can't inadvertently fall away. You can only fall away by an intentional deliberate decision to do so. You haven't done that.

You don't see the kingdom here on earth, because that's not where it is seen. Look for it and its blessings within.

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 14
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
 
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Dave L

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I think I understand, and this is why I worry. I no longer see it. I see a crueler world. I actually thought the rapture had taken place, but in fact, it's just as bad...I seem to have inadvertently fallen away. I cannot see the kingdom here on earth. :(
If you understand Jesus rules the nations with a rod of iron, you can see the kingdom all around us. If you consider the judgements in Revelation, they have been in place since the first century. "All four of Revelation’s punishments—war, famine, conquest, and death—are found there."

Beale, G. K., & Campbell, D. H. (2015). Revelation: A Shorter Commentary (p. 125). Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
 
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nolidad

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You are confusing the present kingdom with it's eternal state yet to happen in the new heavens and earth.

No it is you who is confusing the present mystery form of the kingdom, with the 1,000 year reign of Jesus on earth!
 
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nolidad

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You might think so, but as I recall, your reply showed a failure to comprehend.

Just to your allegorical opinions. YOu have failed to show why your allegories are more authoatative than the JW's, Mormons, romanism etc.
 
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nolidad

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Apparently, either you did not read my last post, or you are attempting to ignore what I said in an effort to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

The text says the wicked angels are in "chains of darkness".

It does not say they are bound in all aspects.

Satan is free to deceive all of those not indwelled with the Spirit of God, described in 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27.
However, Satan and the other wicked angels are now banished from being in the presence of God's Holy light.


We see below that Spirit beings cannot be bound in normal chains.

Mar 5:2 And when He had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

Mar 5:3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains,
Mar 5:4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him.

.

Pulling that 2 peoples o fgod thing is foolishness. That is just asinine!

Bound in all aspects? Is that just like you can cast out atan, but that is only good for 24 hours? LOLOL!

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Reserved means kept! Those angels that sinned in Genesis 6 are bound and imprisoned in darkness.
What unbiblcal not bound are you suggesting?????

and yes the demon gave the man freakish strength! but that does not mean in the spiri realm some good angel is at a forge smelting pig iron to make normal chains! C'mon man!

Satan is also free to deceive all those indwelled by the spirit. That is why there are multiple warnings to stay in the armor and to be alert, sober and awake!

If satan and his demons could not deceive believers, then we would not have the saints holding so many differing opinions now would we????
 
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BABerean2

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No it is you who is confusing the present mystery form of the kingdom, with the 1,000 year reign of Jesus on earth!

Show us mortals still alive on the earth in Matthew 25:46.

Then explain why Peter was wrong about the fire coming on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief", in 2 Peter 3:10-13.


Then explain why Paul was wrong about Christ judging both the living, and the dead, at His appearing, in 2 Timothy 4:1.

Then explain why Paul said the fire comes at His return in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

Ignore all of the scriptue above, and then maybe you can make your Premill doctrine work.




.
 
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BABerean2

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Pulling that 2 peoples o fgod thing is foolishness. That is just asinine!

Bound in all aspects? Is that just like you can cast out atan, but that is only good for 24 hours? LOLOL!


If you cannot defend your doctrine, heap condemnation upon those who expose John Nelson Darby's doctrine for what it really is, and then throw in a couple of LOLs for good measure.

We have seen that strategy before on this forum...


.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I think I understand, and this is why I worry. I no longer see it. I see a crueler world. I actually thought the rapture had taken place, but in fact, it's just as bad...I seem to have inadvertently fallen away. I cannot see the kingdom here on earth. :(
Be encouraged, friend. If you've accepted Christ as Savior and Lord, you can't inadvertently fall away. You can only fall away by an intentional deliberate decision to do so. You haven't done that.

You don't see the kingdom here on earth, because that's not where it is seen. Look for it and its blessings within.
Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Romans 14
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Great post and verses jgr
What did Jesus mean when He told the Jews that the Kingdom of God was nigh in the 1st century?

Luke 19:11
Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.
===================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:33
Thus also ye whenever ye may being seeing all these, be ye knowing!
that nigh it is being upon doors.
Mark 13:29
thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming,
be knowing!
that nigh, it is being upon doors.

Luke 21:31
“So you also, when ye see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is nigh.
===============================
Matthew 21:43
Therefore I am saying to ye, that the Kingdom of God shall be being taken-away from Ye, and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

====================
Interesting commentary on the KoG and KoH:

Kindgdom Bible Studies Kingdom of God Part 1

THE RULE OF GOD

It is significant to note that the phrases “Kingdom of God” and “Kingdom of Heaven are not to be found in the Old Testament. They are strictly New Testament terms beginning with John the Baptist and Jesus. When Jesus came He did not preach a message called grace, or salvation, or justification, or sanctification, or regeneration, or even the Church. Could there be any more glorious message than the one that fell from His lips as He began His sonship ministry declaring, “The KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!”

From that time forward the great teaching of the Lord centered in the truth of THE KINGDOM. His gospel was the gospel (good news) of the Kingdom of God. He only lightly touched on the other subjects which today are considered the great doctrines of the Church and then only as they related to the Kingdom. All of these things are included within the Kingdom, but the Kingdom is none of them. The Kingdom is THE RULE OF GOD. It is the DOMINION OF GOD. That is exactly what it is. And Jesus came with just that message — the revelation of the RULE OF GOD within the hearts of men, and through men, over the earth, yea, over the whole vast universe! First He must reign completely in our lives.
The Kingdom of God is God in Christ in the saints governing the creation of God. The rule of God begins in the hearts of His elect.

Jesus, after His resurrection, asked Peter three times if he loved Him. He then said to him: “When you were young, you girded yourself and walked where you would; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and Another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go.” Commenting on these words, the Holy Spirit adds: “This Jesus said to show by what death Peter was to glorify God” (Jn. 21:18-19).

The expressions when you were young and when you are old speak of two distinct periods in Peter’s life. They indicate His walk before and after entering the Kingdom. The reference to his past (when Peter was young) and to his future (when he would be old) is not a reference to age but to spiritual immaturity and maturity. Emphasis in the first statement in on the pronoun you (“you girded yourself, you walked where you would”).
During this period, Peter’s walk with the Lord was a walk which centered on self — on where he wanted to go and what he wanted to do for the Lord. How impetuous was he in his desires! But the day would come when Peter, subject to Jesus as his King, would allow the Lord to do with him as He willed.

The words, another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go, succinctly describe the walk of the Kingdom. The “another” here refers to the Lord.
The walk of the Kingdom is far from easy and unlike anything we have experienced in the past. Whereas the Lord tolerated and even overlooked the many inconsistencies in our walk when we were young (immature), He now subjects us to a discipline of fire until His image is formed in us (Mal. 3:2-3).
===============================
I also have a thread on the new heaven and earth for those interested:

Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT

I am putting this topic up on the CT board because of the controversial nature of it and that it may evolve into the realm of what is called "full preterism/realized eschatology" which can only be discussed on this board.

With that aside, I would like to put up the Preterist perspective from a Preterist site.

I am of the Covenantle view, of both the Olivet Discourse and Revelation, and will explain more about that was we get further along with this thread.
==========================
 
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nolidad

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Show us mortals still alive on the earth in Matthew 25:46.

Then explain why Peter was wrong about the fire coming on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief", in 2 Peter 3:10-13.


Then explain why Paul was wrong about Christ judging both the living, and the dead, at His appearing, in 2 Timothy 4:1.

Then explain why Paul said the fire comes at His return in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

Ignore all of the scriptue above, and then maybe you can make your Premill doctrine work.




.

Let us take these one by one.

Matt. 25 the context of 46 starts in 31:

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

When Jesus returns to earth- He judges the peoples left survivng from the campaign of Armeggedon! The goats are the unsaved- the sheep are the saved! They go into the millenial kingdom and have eternal life! You are welcome!

2 Peter 3:1010 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This is not the rapture but the great white throne judgment.

Day of the Lord when not modified by actions or other things always refers to teh 70th week of Daniel. As this is modified by events- we look for th ose events and we see them at the great white throne.
You are welcome.

2 Tim 4:1
2 Timothy 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

These are the two times Jesus judges people. Th efirst time when he returns to earth, (Matt. 25) Th esecond time is at the great white throne

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Now for 2 thess. 1:7-10

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 King James Version (KJV)
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

This is the day of His physical return to earth and not the rapture!

REv. 19:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

Matt. 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

I don't ignore them, I relish them! They all show the physical return of Jesus to establish His physical kingdom that will last for 1,000 years! or after the 1,000 years and teh final great white throne judgment right before eternity is set up!

See when allegorists spiritualize away the hundreds upon hundreds of verses in the Old TEstament where God unconditionally promised the nation of Israel a kingdom on earth- they get all messed up with teh New Testament Scriptures and have to spiritualize things that are plainly and explicitly literal.
 
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nolidad

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If you cannot defend your doctrine, heap condemnation upon those who expose John Nelson Darby's doctrine for what it really is, and then throw in a couple of LOLs for good measure.

We have seen that strategy before on this forum...


.

Well I don't know what Darby taught. It appears you are more interested in criticizing people here.

I laugh because you pop up here and throw in something so off topic as to make it laughable.

But like I said- if by the 2 people of God doctrine you mean, that during teh 1,000 year physical kingdom here on earth ruled over by Jesus that teh church, the trib saints and the OPT saints all have different positions in the kingdom? Then yes that is what Gods Word teaches without spiritualizing it away! As to eternity- we all are one folk and we don't even know what it is going to be like, unless you are like the Mormons and you have secret fglasses that give you access to things no one esle can see!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2 said:
Apparently, either you did not read my last post, or you are attempting to ignore what I said in an effort to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.
Pulling that 2 peoples o fgod thing is foolishness. That is just asinine!............
BABerean2 said: If you cannot defend your doctrine, heap condemnation upon those who expose John Nelson Darby's doctrine for what it really is, and then throw in a couple of LOLs for good measure.
We have seen that strategy before on this forum...
Well I don't know what Darby taught. It appears you are more interested in criticizing people here.
I laugh because you pop up here and throw in something so off topic as to make it laughable.
But like I said- if by the 2 people of God doctrine you mean, that during teh 1,000 year physical kingdom here on earth ruled over by Jesus that teh church, the trib saints and the OPT saints all have different positions in the kingdom? Then yes that is what Gods Word teaches without spiritualizing it away! As to eternity- we all are one folk and we don't even know what it is going to be like, unless you are like the Mormons and you have secret fglasses that give you access to things no one esle can see!
2 threads for your viewing pleasure...............:angel:

Two-peoples-and-two-meanings systems
Those who believe there are two peoples of God will inevitably end up with a very different idea of "Eschatology--Endtimes & Prophecy". They see about 10,000 feet of concrete between the two, so that whatever took place at the coming of the Gospel has nothing to do with the other group of people. In fact, a full-blown restoration or return to the other group never does, or needs to, show up in Acts, in NT letters, in any of the MO of the apostles; it's "just there." It doesn't matter what NT passages say about promises to the other people, God doesn't "change," so any passage at all from the OT has to happen, no matter what the NT says.

Parallel to this is the "two meanings" of Mt 24 &//s (Mk 13, Lk 19&21).

Whenever I hear that 2nd century church fathers wrote about Revelation like the popular prophecy teachers of today, I have to place this beside the remark I hear all the time from 'messianic' friends: that shortly after the destruction of Jerusalem, the church immersed in anti-semitism (as though the destruction of Jerusalem was the only statement by God about such things). Both cannot be true, and both have lost their grip, as far as I can tell.
--Inter

Two-peoples-and-two-meanings theology

And so will my response following it.
The "two peoples" is driven by several things:

1) its agreement with man's own fancy

2) its origin in Jewish apocalytic sources, revived between 160 and 250 A.D., which made its way into the Church during the third century.

It was not a teaching of the Church during the Apostolic age, ending with the year 150 A.D. (at the passing of those personally taught by the apostles). Likewise, the early Christian creeds, which were statements of apostolic teaching, do not contain a future earthly Messianic kingdom in a restoration of Israel. The Apostles' and the Nicene Creeds leave no room for it between Christ's ascension and the final judgment, nor did Christ (Mt 24:14). And the Athanasian Creed teaches final judgment and eternity at the second coming of Christ.

3) the desire of "people #1" to maintain a precedency and supercedency as God's favored people, with a special dispensation apart from and outside the Church, the bride of Christ (contrary to Jn 10:16)

4) misinterpretation of prophecy that Israel has a future apart from and outside the Church (contrary to Ro 11:15-24, esp. v.23; Heb 11:39-40, 12:22-23; Rev 21:9-14, 22:15) and

5) the insistence that unbelieving Jews who reject the NT for the OT are still God's people (contrary to Lk 10:16, 19:27; Jn 3:18b, 36; Gal 4:24-40)

This un-Biblical notion undermines Christian doctrine in several ways:

1) It shifts the focus, emphasis and purpose of God from the excellency of his plan in Christ Jesus and his body the Church, comprised of both Jew and Gentile, to the supposed excellency of his plan for a future restoration of Israel.

2) It removes Jesus from the center of God's plan for all history and time, and replaces him with Israel.

3) It sees the promise to Abraham of Ge 12:3, to be a blessing to all nations, as being fulfilled in a future restoration of Israel, rather than in the promised seed (Ge 3:15), Jesus Christ!

4) It diminishes the doctrine of Christ by captivating minds, focus, attention, interest, conversation, anticipation, orientation with a sensational future of Israel.

In practical effect, the doctrine of Christ has become a stepsister to the sensational future of Israel.

In the faith,
Clare
 
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jgr

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Great post and verses jgr
What did Jesus mean when He told the Jews that the Kingdom of God was nigh in the 1st century?

Luke 19:11
Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.
===================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:33
Thus also ye whenever ye may being seeing all these, be ye knowing!
that nigh it is being upon doors.
Mark 13:29
thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming,
be knowing!
that nigh, it is being upon doors.

Luke 21:31
“So you also, when ye see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is nigh.
===============================
Matthew 21:43
Therefore I am saying to ye, that the Kingdom of God shall be being taken-away from Ye, and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

====================
Interesting commentary on the KoG and KoH:

Kindgdom Bible Studies Kingdom of God Part 1

THE RULE OF GOD

It is significant to note that the phrases “Kingdom of God” and “Kingdom of Heaven are not to be found in the Old Testament. They are strictly New Testament terms beginning with John the Baptist and Jesus. When Jesus came He did not preach a message called grace, or salvation, or justification, or sanctification, or regeneration, or even the Church. Could there be any more glorious message than the one that fell from His lips as He began His sonship ministry declaring, “The KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!”

From that time forward the great teaching of the Lord centered in the truth of THE KINGDOM. His gospel was the gospel (good news) of the Kingdom of God. He only lightly touched on the other subjects which today are considered the great doctrines of the Church and then only as they related to the Kingdom. All of these things are included within the Kingdom, but the Kingdom is none of them. The Kingdom is THE RULE OF GOD. It is the DOMINION OF GOD. That is exactly what it is. And Jesus came with just that message — the revelation of the RULE OF GOD within the hearts of men, and through men, over the earth, yea, over the whole vast universe! First He must reign completely in our lives.
The Kingdom of God is God in Christ in the saints governing the creation of God. The rule of God begins in the hearts of His elect.

Jesus, after His resurrection, asked Peter three times if he loved Him. He then said to him: “When you were young, you girded yourself and walked where you would; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and Another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go.” Commenting on these words, the Holy Spirit adds: “This Jesus said to show by what death Peter was to glorify God” (Jn. 21:18-19).

The expressions when you were young and when you are old speak of two distinct periods in Peter’s life. They indicate His walk before and after entering the Kingdom. The reference to his past (when Peter was young) and to his future (when he would be old) is not a reference to age but to spiritual immaturity and maturity. Emphasis in the first statement in on the pronoun you (“you girded yourself, you walked where you would”).
During this period, Peter’s walk with the Lord was a walk which centered on self — on where he wanted to go and what he wanted to do for the Lord. How impetuous was he in his desires! But the day would come when Peter, subject to Jesus as his King, would allow the Lord to do with him as He willed.

The words, another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go, succinctly describe the walk of the Kingdom. The “another” here refers to the Lord.
The walk of the Kingdom is far from easy and unlike anything we have experienced in the past. Whereas the Lord tolerated and even overlooked the many inconsistencies in our walk when we were young (immature), He now subjects us to a discipline of fire until His image is formed in us (Mal. 3:2-3).
===============================
I also have a thread on the new heaven and earth for those interested:

Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT

Thanks LLoJ, and for your own contributions to The Kingdom.
 
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BABerean2

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Well I don't know what Darby taught. It appears you are more interested in criticizing people here.

I laugh because you pop up here and throw in something so off topic as to make it laughable.

But like I said- if by the 2 people of God doctrine you mean, that during teh 1,000 year physical kingdom here on earth ruled over by Jesus that teh church, the trib saints and the OPT saints all have different positions in the kingdom? Then yes that is what Gods Word teaches without spiritualizing it away! As to eternity- we all are one folk and we don't even know what it is going to be like, unless you are like the Mormons and you have secret fglasses that give you access to things no one esle can see!

Like you, there are millions sitting in evangelical churches who have no idea that John Nelson Darby brought their doctrine to America, about the time of the Civil War. It was later incorporated into the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread like a virus through the American Church.
I was once a deacon in a church which taught the doctrine, and nobody told me where it came from.
I was shocked to discover that the doctrine cannot be found in the thousands of pages of commentary and sermons written by America's preachers at the time of the Revolutionary War.
Later I found out that those in leadership positions within my church did not want those sitting in the pews to know the doctrine is less than 200 years old.

You can laugh all you want, but it will not change the truth found above.
If you do not know the original source of your doctrine, the joke is on you.



Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

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