Did we miss our turn somewhere?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Be encouraged, friend. If you've accepted Christ as Savior and Lord, you can't inadvertently fall away. You can only fall away by an intentional deliberate decision to do so. You haven't done that.

You don't see the kingdom here on earth, because that's not where it is seen. Look for it and its blessings within.

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 14
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Great post and verses jgr
What did Jesus mean when He told the Jews that the Kingdom of God was nigh in the 1st century?

Luke 19:11
Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.
===================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:33
Thus also ye whenever ye may being seeing all these, be ye knowing!
that nigh it is being upon doors.
Mark 13:29
thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming,
be knowing!
that nigh, it is being upon doors.
Luke 21:31
“So you also, when ye see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is nigh.
===============================
Matthew 21:43
Therefore I am saying to ye, that the Kingdom of God shall be being taken-away from Ye, and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

====================
Interesting commentary on the KoG and KoH:

Kindgdom Bible Studies Kingdom of God Part 1

THE RULE OF GOD

It is significant to note that the phrases “Kingdom of God” and “Kingdom of Heaven” are not to be found in the Old Testament. They are strictly New Testament terms beginning with John the Baptist and Jesus. When Jesus came He did not preach a message called grace, or salvation, or justification, or sanctification, or regeneration, or even the Church. Could there be any more glorious message than the one that fell from His lips as He began His sonship ministry declaring, “The KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!”

From that time forward the great teaching of the Lord centered in the truth of THE KINGDOM. His gospel was the gospel (good news) of the Kingdom of God. He only lightly touched on the other subjects which today are considered the great doctrines of the Church and then only as they related to the Kingdom. All of these things are included within the Kingdom, but the Kingdom is none of them. The Kingdom is THE RULE OF GOD. It is the DOMINION OF GOD. That is exactly what it is. And Jesus came with just that message — the revelation of the RULE OF GOD within the hearts of men, and through men, over the earth, yea, over the whole vast universe! First He must reign completely in our lives.
The Kingdom of God is God in Christ in the saints governing the creation of God. The rule of God begins in the hearts of His elect.

Jesus, after His resurrection, asked Peter three times if he loved Him. He then said to him: “When you were young, you girded yourself and walked where you would; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and Another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go.” Commenting on these words, the Holy Spirit adds: “This Jesus said to show by what death Peter was to glorify God” (Jn. 21:18-19).

The expressions when you were young and when you are old speak of two distinct periods in Peter’s life. They indicate His walk before and after entering the Kingdom. The reference to his past (when Peter was young) and to his future (when he would be old) is not a reference to age but to spiritual immaturity and maturity. Emphasis in the first statement in on the pronoun you (“you girded yourself, you walked where you would”).
During this period, Peter’s walk with the Lord was a walk which centered on self — on where he wanted to go and what he wanted to do for the Lord. How impetuous was he in his desires! But the day would come when Peter, subject to Jesus as his King, would allow the Lord to do with him as He willed.

The words, another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go, succinctly describe the walk of the Kingdom. The “another” here refers to the Lord.
The walk of the Kingdom is far from easy and unlike anything we have experienced in the past. Whereas the Lord tolerated and even overlooked the many inconsistencies in our walk when we were young (immature), He now subjects us to a discipline of fire until His image is formed in us (Mal. 3:2-3).
===============================
I also have a thread on the new heaven and earth for those interested:

Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT

Thanks LLoJ, and for your own contributions to The Kingdom.

Thank you jgr.......
LLoJ.........a member of the Kingdom of the Son/Light/NC........

Matthew 21:43
Therefore I am saying to ye, that the Kingdom of God shall be being taken-away from Ye and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.

Matthew 27:45 At sixth hour, darkness became upon all the Land till hour of the ninth.

Col 1:13
He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

Revelation 16:10
And the fifth messenger pours out the bowl of him upon the Throne of the beast and became the Kingdom of it having been Darkened<4654>
and they gnawed the tongues of them out of the misery

 

[nolidad]

If you cannot defend your doctrine, heap condemnation upon those who expose John Nelson Darby's doctrine for what it really is, and then throw in a couple of LOLs for good measure.

We have seen that strategy before on this forum...

.

Once again , As have never studied Darby I can't comment as to your allegations against him.

 

[nolidad]

2 threads for your viewing pleasure...............

Two-peoples-and-two-meanings systems

Isa this what Darby Taught?

That God will fulfill His Promises to the nation of Israel in giving them a kingdom? That the Apostles will sit on thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel?

Thiat the nations will once a year have to come to Jerusalem or face consequences?

That teh Chruch which was not established ini teh OT is the Bride of Christ and has a different role in the millenium?

or the Trib saints which also are not part of teh Chruch have a different role in the millenial kingdom as is explicitly explained in SCripture?

Is this what Darby taught??

Two-peoples-and-two-meanings theology

Well interplanner makes allegations that god is somehow antisemitic now or at least it appears that way.

But there is nothing in the New Testament that says God will renege on his promises to His Old Testament saints of Israel to give them an earthly kingdom. It is the subject of enormous prophecy. In the NT the only new thing added about the the passages of the OT about the kingdom Israel will have, is how long it will last!

 

[nolidad]

Like you, there are millions sitting in evangelical churches who have no idea that John Nelson Darby brought their doctrine to America, about the time of the Civil War. It was later incorporated into the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread like a virus through the American Church.
I was once a deacon in a church which taught the doctrine, and nobody told me where it came from.
I was shocked to discover that the doctrine cannot be found in the thousands of pages of commentary and sermons written by America's preachers at the time of the Revolutionary War.
Later I found out that those in leadership positions within my church did not want those sitting in the pews to know the doctrine is less than 200 years old.

You can laugh all you want, but it will not change the truth found above.
If you do not know the original source of your doctrine, the joke is on you.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

.

Well I have listened to many covenant theologians roar against dispensationalism. But they have yet to hit on any real biblical reason why it is wrong!

Covenant theologians use an allegorical interpretation and replacement theology approach to Scripture so that anything God promised to Israel now belongs to teh church. Many even try to prove that OT saints are somehow part of the church or body of Christ which is grammatically, doctrinal, and exegetically impossible.

But if you want to do a little history, most believers in covenant theology do not realize that it was popularized by Augustine and made church policy by Rome right befoe the "Christianized " world entered into the dark ages and the ministers of Christ became more politicians and mass murderers than ambassadors of the gospel.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
2 threads for your viewing pleasure...............

Two-peoples-and-two-meanings systems

Well interplanner makes allegations that god is somehow antisemitic now or at least it appears that way.

One would think so..............

EZEKIEL 22 "GATHER HOUSE OF ISRAEL INTO JERUSALEM TO MELT IN FURNACE/GEHENNA/LAKE OF FIRE"

Isa 31:9
He shall cross over to his stronghold for fear,And his princes shall be afraid of the banner,” Says the LORD,
Whose fire is in Zion
And whose furnace is in Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 22:
1 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me, saying, 2 ‘And thou, son of adam! dost thou judge? dost thou judge the City of blood? then thou hast caused it to know all its abominations, 17 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me, saying, ‘Son of adam!
18 The House of Israel hath been to Me for dross, All of them [are] brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, In the midst of a furnace — dross hath silver been,
19 Therefore, thus said Adonay Yahweh: Because of your all becoming dross, Therefore, behold!
I am gathering you unto the midst of Jerusalem,
20 A gathering of silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, Unto the midst of a furnace — to blow on it fire, to melt it, So do I gather in Mine anger and in My fury, And I have let rest, and have melted you.
21 And I have heaped you up, And blown on you in the fire of My wrath<5678>, And ye have been melted<5413> in its midst.
22 As the melting of silver in the midst of a furnace, So are ye melted in its midst,
And ye have known that I, Yahweh, I have poured out My fury<2534> upon you.’
=====================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;
and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah
=====================
Matthew 23: 33 "Serpents! brood of vipers!
how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna<1067>

Revelation 15:1 And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Seven Messengers having seven stripes/blows, the last, that in them is finished the fury<2372> of the GOD..............

Revelation 18:
8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows,
death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be utterly burned<2618>,
that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting<929> of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

............Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other. Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes. The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan.
The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.

 

[nolidad]

Matthew 21:43
Therefore I am saying to ye, that the Kingdom of God shall be being taken-away from Ye and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.

It is too bad you do not recognize the context. Jesus came and if that generation (nation) hadaccepted His Messiahship, He still would have died, but when He rose, He would have established the long awaited kingdom! But because that generation rejected Him- it was taken from them, and will be given to another time of Israel, who will accept Jesus as Messiah as is prophesied in Romans 11, Zechariah and many other passages.

But the church has never been called a nation! We are a conglomerate of many nations! As a matter of fact a prophesy of the OT foretold this and said that we who are no nation will be called the people of God!

But that God is not through with Israel as a nation is absolute!
Joel 3:2
I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Amos 9:9
For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Micah 7:16
The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.

Zechariah 8:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Zechariah 12:9
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Malachi 3:12
And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.

Then let us not forget the prophesies of Ez. 38-39, Matt 24 for Israel, and of course Rom. 11: with the emphasis on this:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Nor let us not forget what Jesus said to the Apostles in Acts 1:

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The time when God will restore the kingdom to Israel is not gone- but is in the Fathers hands!

Only by allegorizing and redefining these passages do people get to the place where they allege god is done with the nation of Israel. Which would mean that God lied to Israel!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is too bad you do not recognize the context. Jesus came and if that generation (nation) hadaccepted His Messiahship, He still would have died, but when He rose, He would have established the long awaited kingdom! But because that generation rejected Him- it was taken from them, and will be given to another time of Israel, who will accept Jesus as Messiah as is prophesied in Romans 11, Zechariah and many other passages.

And the same for you...........

 

[BABerean2]

Well I have listened to many covenant theologians roar against dispensationalism. But they have yet to hit on any real biblical reason why it is wrong!

Covenant theologians use an allegorical interpretation and replacement theology approach to Scripture so that anything God promised to Israel now belongs to teh church. Many even try to prove that OT saints are somehow part of the church or body of Christ which is grammatically, doctrinal, and exegetically impossible.

But if you want to do a little history, most believers in covenant theology do not realize that it was popularized by Augustine and made church policy by Rome right befoe the "Christianized " world entered into the dark ages and the ministers of Christ became more politicians and mass murderers than ambassadors of the gospel.

Both Reformed Covenant Theology, and modern Dispensational Theology fall apart in Galatians chapters 3, and 4.
I am neither. You cannot put me in either box.


What is New Covenant Theology?

Pastor Douglas Goodin

.

 

[BABerean2]

Once again , As have never studied Darby I can't comment as to your allegations against him.

You may have never heard John Nelson Darby's name, but the Two Peoples of God doctrine that you are promoting came to America through Darby.
Your ignorance of that historical fact, does not surprise me.

The historical truth is found in the links below.

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf


Have you ever heard of the Scofield Reference Bible?

.

 

[jgr]

Many even try to prove that OT saints are somehow part of the church or body of Christ which is grammatically, doctrinal, and exegetically impossible.

But Scripturally unmistakable.

Ephesians 2
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

 

[jgr]

But the church has never been called a nation!

Does your Bible exclude these verses?

Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

That nation is the Church.

 

[nolidad]

But Scripturally unmistakable.

Ephesians 2
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Love those verses!

But that doesn't make the OT saints members of the Body of Christ! To be a member of the Body one has to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit and that didn't start until Pentecost!

See that is why Jesus said this:

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Will build is the future active indicative meaning Jesus hadn't started building HIs church yet. If He said, I will continue building my church, I would be on your side!

 

[nolidad]

Does your Bible exclude these verses?

Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

That nation is the Church.

And that would be wrong.

While this Epistle has much for the church- Peter was writing specifically to the Jews scattered throughout the empire. Paul was THE Apostle to the Gentiles as Peter was THE Apostle to the Jews! But this epistle is fulfilment of Hosea 1 which is directed to Jews.

As for Matthew 21:

Yes the kingdom which Jesus at first came to proclaim and was prepared to give that generation, was taken from them. And yes it will be given to another ethnos( group of people of the same ethnicity). So in the end of the 70th week of Daniel when all the Jews on earth gewt saved- they will get the kijngdom taken from their forefathers through unbelief!

So all the prophecies of the coming kingdom to Israel were postponed so the mystery form of the kingdom (hidden in the old and revealed in the new by Paul in Eph. 3:6) That Jew and Gentile since Pentecost could be members of the same family by faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus for their sins.

But the fact that Israel still has a coming physical kingdom is spread throughout all the OT and even Jesus reconfirmed it before He left in Acts 1:6-8:
Acts 1:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

He said the kingdom will be restored in the Fathers time and it is not for us to know that time!

But we are fellowheirs with the Jews now! But in the millenial kingdom Israel, the church and the millenial saints all have different roles to play through out the 1000 years!

At teh end of the 1000 years- Even Jesus relinquishes HIs kingship and submits all back to the Father!

 

[BABerean2]

To be a member of the Body one has to be Baptized by the Holy Spirit and that didn't start until Pentecost!

Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?


Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.


Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


Luk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,


Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


You said, vs. God said...

.

 

[nolidad]

You may have never heard John Nelson Darby's name, but the Two Peoples of God doctrine that you are promoting came to America through Darby.
Your ignorance of that historical fact, does not surprise me.

The historical truth is found in the links below.

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf


Have you ever heard of the Scofield Reference Bible?

Well my ignorance is because it is irrelavent. The reason the two peoples of God took time to be RE-established in the church after the church became predominantly gentile is very very simple.

First the Augustinian popularization of allegorical interpretation had to be exposed and smashed!

2nd. the 1300 years of darkness of false doctrine during the dark ages had to come to light and vanquished that started with the early reformers and came to full birth with Luther!

Getting rid of the many errors of the dark ages church took much time! Bringing the Word of God back into the hands of the people took time and educating the generations took time. So what you have called the 2 peoples of God doctrine was not a high priority! Same with eschatology which had all been spiritualized away by the allegorical interpretation of Scripture and covenant theology born of the church of the dark ages!

But the fact that in the millenial kingdom the OT saints, the church and the trib saints all have different roles is abundantly clear if one accepts the Words of the apostles, Prophets and Jesus at face value, when they are clearly not visions, symbols or apocalyptic language!

 

[nolidad]

Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?


Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.


Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


Luk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

I didn't know this was going to end up being a large tutorial.

Being filled with the Spirit is not the same as being baptized by the Spirit! David was filled with the Spirit, Saul was filled with Spirit and they could have it taken away! That is why David pleaded in Psalm 51.

But John the Baptist recognized He was not part of the bride!

John 3:29
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

And who are the guests invited to the bridegrooms wedding feast? Why the OT saints and the trib saints!

the church is the bride and the wedding feast takes place when Jesus returns! Jesus weds His bride in heaven as declared in REv. 19! So all other saints outside of teh church are invited to the wedding feast! Which happens in the millenial kingdom!

 

[jgr]

Well my ignorance is because it is irrelavent. The reason the two peoples of God took time to be RE-established in the church after the church became predominantly gentile is very very simple.

First the Augustinian popularization of allegorical interpretation had to be exposed and smashed!

2nd. the 1300 years of darkness of false doctrine during the dark ages had to come to light and vanquished that started with the early reformers and came to full birth with Luther!

Getting rid of the many errors of the dark ages church took much time! Bringing the Word of God back into the hands of the people took time and educating the generations took time. So what you have called the 2 peoples of God doctrine was not a high priority! Same with eschatology which had all been spiritualized away by the allegorical interpretation of Scripture and covenant theology born of the church of the dark ages!

But the fact that in the millenial kingdom the OT saints, the church and the trib saints all have different roles is abundantly clear if one accepts the Words of the apostles, Prophets and Jesus at face value, when they are clearly not visions, symbols or apocalyptic language!

Provide any evidence that you can that Luther or any other Reformer espoused a two peoples of God heterodoxy.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

BABerean2 said: ↑
Apparently, either you did not read my last post, or you are attempting to ignore what I said in an effort to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.

The text says the wicked angels are in "chains of darkness".
It does not say they are bound in all aspects.

Satan is free to deceive all of those not indwelled with the Spirit of God, described in 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27.
However, Satan and the other wicked angels are now banished from being in the presence of God's Holy light.


We see below that Spirit beings cannot be bound in normal chains.

Mar 5:2 And when He had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
Mar 5:3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains,
Mar 5:4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him.

nolidad said: ↑
Pulling that 2 peoples o fgod thing is foolishness. That is just asinine!

Bound in all aspects? Is that just like you can cast out atan, but that is only good for 24 hours? LOLOL!

BABerean2 said: ↑
If you cannot defend your doctrine, heap condemnation upon those who expose John Nelson Darby's doctrine for what it really is, and then throw in a couple of LOLs for good measure.

We have seen that strategy before on this forum..

Once again , As have never studied Darby I can't comment as to your allegations against him.

BABerean2 said: ↑
You may have never heard John Nelson Darby's name, but the Two Peoples of God doctrine that you are promoting came to America through Darby.
Your ignorance of that historical fact, does not surprise me.

The historical truth is found in the links below.

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf


Have you ever heard of the Scofield Reference Bible?

nolidad said: ↑
Well my ignorance is because it is irrelavent. The reason the two peoples of God took time to be RE-established in the church after the church became predominantly gentile is very very simple..................

Provide any evidence that you can that Luther or any other Reformer espoused a two peoples of God heterodoxy.

The "2 peoples of God" is brought up so much lately, I went ahead and saved these links in my "Dispensationalist spider web doctrine" folder.......

Two-peoples-and-two-meanings systems/

This thread will be posted at "Eschatology--Endtimes & Prophecy" as well.

Those who believe there are two peoples of God will inevitably end up with a very different idea of "Eschatology--Endtimes & Prophecy". They see about 10,000 feet of concrete between the two, so that whatever took place at the coming of the Gospel has nothing to do with the other group of people. In fact, a full-blown restoration or return to the other group never does, or needs to, show up in Acts, in NT letters, in any of the MO of the apostles; it's "just there." It doesn't matter what NT passages say about promises to the other people, God doesn't "change," so any passage at all from the OT has to happen, no matter what the NT says.

Parallel to this is the "two meanings" of Mt 24 &//s (Mk 13, Lk 19&21). Becasue of the two peoples, it is absolutely clear to these good people that Jesus was perfectly normal in giving the most scattered of explanations. Utterly urgent warnings...for people thousands of years in the future! Why, of course. Wasn't he that schitzophrenic all through his ministry? How could I have missed it? No, I think he was completely coherent about the events that would take place in that generation, with a bit of an echo that if something would happen in the distant future it would at least copy or replicate what was described:

a pretend 'messianic' antichrist(s),
a failed messianic war for the land of Judea,
Sabbath (ie Mosaic law) police making many miserable...etc

A person needs to sort out:
1, whether the NT is the authoritative statement about the two peoples in Eph 2-3 etc (as opposed to popular prophecy teachers now), and
2, where he goes with #1 into prophecy. They don't go to the same place.

Why would the plainly stated doctrinal passages of the NT never mention anything in the future for Israel--I mean not even the slightest 'need' for any prophecy to be fulfilled--in their treatments of the promises, shape, destiny, history and conclusion of Israel's role in the arrival of the redemption that is in Christ Jesus?

Whenever I hear that 2nd century church fathers wrote about Revelation like the popular prophecy teachers of today, I have to place this beside the remark I hear all the time from 'messianic' friends: that shortly after the destruction of Jerusalem, the church immersed in anti-semitism (as though the destruction of Jerusalem was the only statement by God about such things). Both cannot be true, and both have lost their grip, as far as I can tell.
--Inter

Two-peoples-and-two-meanings theology

This thread will be posted at Dispensationalism as well.

Those who believe there are two peoples of God will inevitably end up with a very different idea of "Eschatology--Endtimes & Prophecy". They see about 10,000 feet of concrete between the two, so that whatever took place at the coming of the Gospel has nothing to do with the other group of people. In fact, a full-blown restoration or return to the other group never does, or needs to, show up in Acts, in NT letters, in any of the MO of the apostles; it's "just there." It doesn't matter what NT passages say about promises to the other people, God doesn't "change," so any passage at all from the OT has to happen, no matter what the NT says.

Parallel to this is the "two meanings" of Mt 24 &//s (Mk 13, Lk 19&21). Becasue of the two peoples, it is absolutely clear to these good people that Jesus was perfectly normal in giving the most scattered of explanations. Utterly urgent warnings...for people thousands of years in the future! Why, of course. Wasn't he that schitzophrenic all through his ministry? How could I have missed it? No, I think he was completely coherent about the events that would take place in that generation, with a bit of an echo that if something would happen in the distant future it would at least copy or replicate what was described:

a pretend 'messianic' antichrist(s),
a failed messianic war for the land of Judea,
Sabbath (ie Mosaic law) police making many miserable...etc

A person needs to sort out:
1, whether the NT is the authoritative statement about the two peoples in Eph 2-3 etc (as opposed to popular prophecy teachers now), and
2, where he goes with #1 into prophecy. They don't go to the same place. Why would the plainly stated doctrinal passages of the NT never mention anything in the future for Israel--I mean not even the slightest 'need' for any prophecy to be fulfilled--in their treatments of the promises, shape, destiny, history and conclusion of Israel's role in the arrival of the redemption that is in Christ Jesus?

Whenever I hear that 2nd century church fathers wrote about Revelation like the popular prophecy teachers of today, I have to place this beside the remark I hear all the time from 'messianic' friends: that shortly after the destruction of Jerusalem, the church immersed in anti-semitism (as though the destruction of Jerusalem was the only statement by God about such things). Both cannot be true, and both have lost their grip, as far as I can tell.

--Inter

2/2 is not in the NT

Two programs / 2 peoples of God is not in the NT. It is a modern fabrication. It shares some roots with the Jesuit counter-reformation.

 

[BABerean2]

I didn't know this was going to end up being a large tutorial.

Being filled with the Spirit is not the same as being baptized by the Spirit! David was filled with the Spirit, Saul was filled with Spirit and they could have it taken away! That is why David pleaded in Psalm 51.

But John the Baptist recognized He was not part of the bride!

John 3:29
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

And who are the guests invited to the bridegrooms wedding feast? Why the OT saints and the trib saints!

the church is the bride and the wedding feast takes place when Jesus returns! Jesus weds His bride in heaven as declared in REv. 19! So all other saints outside of teh church are invited to the wedding feast! Which happens in the millenial kingdom!

Mat_11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.


Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
(Those in the verse above cannot be under the blood of the Lamb, and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.)


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

“.... to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; Revelation 1:1 (KJV 1900)
“ the things which must shortly be done.” Revelation 22:6
Why is it most still look for the visions of Revelation to be fulfilled in the distant future? When Jesus said they would soon come to pass - nearly 2000 years ago?
Could it be we are like a person who misses his turn and still looks for it 2000 miles down the road? Someone too stubborn to take another look at the map?

Probably has to do with bad translations?

"THE TIME IS NIGH AT HAND" AND "COMING IN SWIFTNESS" REVELATION 1st century Jerusalem 70ad

4930. sunteleia from 4931;
entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):--end.

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end/consummation<4930> of the Age?

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread
Matt 24:33 Luk 21:31

Luke 21:31
Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing These-things becoming ye are knowing that nigh/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God.

James 5:8
be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye, that the Parousia<3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448>

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things yet the End<5056> is nigh<1448>
be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,
======================
Revelation 1:1
An-un-veiling of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bond-servants of Him,
which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 22:6
And said to me: "These the Words Faithful and True. And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy Prophets commissions the messenger of Him to show to the bond-servents of Him
which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

2540. kairos of uncertain affinity;
an occasion, i.e. set or proper time:--X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Compare 5550.
G2540 καιρός (kairos) occurs 86 times in 81 verses

Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
For the Time/Season<2540> is nigh<1451>.

Greek and Hebrew Reader Online

Revelation 1:
1 Ἀποκάλυψις1 Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεός, δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει
2, καὶ ἐσήμανεν3 ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάννῃ, 2 ὃς ἐμαρτύρησεν τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὴν μαρτυρίαν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὅσα ἴδεν.
3 μακάριος ὁ ἀναγινώσκων καὶ οἱ ἀκούοντες τὸν λόγον τῆς προφητείας4 καὶ τηροῦντες τὰ ἐν αὐτῇ γεγραμμένα, ὁ γὰρ καιρὸς ἐγγύς.

Revelation 22:10
And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this.
For the Time/Season is nigh<1451>

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Dispensationalism/ Rapture refuted

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism
The Historical Fall of Jerusalem in AD70