"For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14)

[inquiring mind]

His children? Yes.

But, no reward for doing good?

 

[Hammster]

But, no reward for doing good?

For His children? Yes.

 

[GenemZ]

No, that’s not how it works. God doesn’t reward us for being good.

Believing in Jesus is the only good He will accept. We are not saved by "works."

What were "works?" For we are not saved by works.

Works was a system of doing certain specified deeds as devised by the Pharisees as the means to win God's salvation. Works = plurality. A system! We are not saved by works.

Yet? There is one singular work. One that God approves of! Its not a system of works. Its one good deed that saves!

Then they asked him, “What must we do
to do the works God requires?” Jn 6:28​

His disciples (like all of Israel) were caught up in the politically correct religious system of the Pharisee's thinking. The disciples wanted to know from Jesus what works he would require in contrast to the Pharisaical system.

Jesus's answer?

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe
in the one he has sent." Jn 6:29​

Not by works. Not by trying to do a system of many good things to become saved. But, by one sole work approved of by God. To BELIEVE in Jesus!

We are not saved by works (plural). We are saved by one work alone!

He then brought them out and asked,
“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”​

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you
will be saved—you and your household.” Act 16:30-31​

Any questions now? One good thing alone we do saves!

grace and peace...

 

[inquiring mind]

Not by works. Not by trying to do a system of many good things to become saved. But, by one sole work approved of by God. To BELIEVE in Jesus!
We are not saved by works (plural). We are saved by one work alone!

True, but works are important; we are disciplined for our wrongdoing and rewarded for the good we do (in God's eyes, not ours).

 

[GenemZ]

True, but works are important; we are disciplined for our wrongdoing and rewarded for the good we do (in God's eyes, not ours).

Works that we are led into doing are done with supernatural spiritual instincts. They are to be performed like birds knowing to fly south for the winter.

If you are led of the Spirit? You will be performing works (without maybe knowing it) that you did not seek to do. They found you to do them!

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do
good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Eph 2:10​

The good Samaritan was not seeking to do good. The opportunity for him to do good found him! God prepared it and it was unique for him to do.

Too many churches tell us what good works we must do to please God. The good work of all good works, is to learn how to be filled with the Spirit. The fruit of being filled with the Spirit is to be led into doing good things. Works that will seem to come naturally for you. Yet, God sees them as the good works He wishes for us to do.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I said that the text didn’t say they. It does, however, say why they were there.

What are you disputing because it is both there in the text. The text says that those who initially got the call rejected it.

Mat 22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
Mat 22:5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
Mat 22:6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

Mat 22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

Isn't this the first condition? Those who accepted the call??

And to the second condition.

Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Didn't I say that those found without the proper garment was cast out? Isn't that the second condition. I dont get how you can say the text does not say that.

 

[Hammster]

Believing in Jesus is the only good He will accept. We are not saved by "works."

What were "works?" For we are not saved by works.

Works was a system of doing certain specified deeds as devised by the Pharisees as the means to win God's salvation. Works = plurality. A system! We are not saved by works.

Yet? There is one singular work. One that God approves of! Its not a system of works. Its one good deed that saves!

Then they asked him, “What must we do
to do the works God requires?” Jn 6:28​

His disciples (like all of Israel) were caught up in the politically correct religious system of the Pharisee's thinking. The disciples wanted to know from Jesus what works he would require in contrast to the Pharisaical system.

Jesus's answer?

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe
in the one he has sent." Jn 6:29​

Not by works. Not by trying to do a system of many good things to become saved. But, by one sole work approved of by God. To BELIEVE in Jesus!

We are not saved by works (plural). We are saved by one work alone!

He then brought them out and asked,
“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”​

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you
will be saved—you and your household.” Act 16:30-31​

Any questions now? One good thing alone we do saves!

grace and peace...

I didn’t say good works. So you just wasted a lot of time.

 

[Hammster]

What are you disputing because it is both there in the text. The text says that those who initially got the call rejected it.

Mat 22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
Mat 22:5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
Mat 22:6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

Mat 22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

Isn't this the first condition? Those who accepted the call??

And to the second condition.

Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Didn't I say that those found without the proper garment was cast out? Isn't that the second condition. I dont get how you can say the text does not say that.

I don’t see accept anywhere. And I don’t see where they put on the garments.

But I noticed that you didn’t post v. 10.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I don’t see accept anywhere. And I don’t see where they put on the garments.

But I noticed that you didn’t post v. 10.

Ok this is pointless.

 

[GenemZ]

I didn’t say good works. So you just wasted a lot of time.

On you I did... But, not for others.

 

[Hammster]

Ok this is pointless.

If you mean that’s it’s pointless to make the text say something that it doesn’t, I agree.

 

[Carl Emerson]

His sheep are the ones who accepted God's drawing. They are ready for finalizing their salvation.

They were only able to accept God's drawing because He gave them the grace to accept.

I believe in total depravity which means all aspects of our salvation journey are His work, not ours.

God's drawing is irresistible for those chosen for salvation.

This leaves no room for pride as Paul said.

 

[inquiring mind]

They were only able to accept God's drawing because He gave them the grace to accept.

I believe in total depravity which means all aspects of our salvation journey are His work, not ours.

God's drawing is irresistible for those chosen for salvation.

This leaves no room for pride as Paul said.

The Bible does teach predestination/election through God’s sovereign plan, but for me, the question is, does God’s sovereign plan also include an element of man’s choice and free will? I think the Bible tells us it does. Scripture tells us we can’t be saved without repentance and faith in Jesus Christ as our savior. Doesn’t it follow that you would make that choice? Otherwise, I don’t get it... what would be the point?

I’m not pitting man’s free-will against God’s election (no contest there). I’m just looking at what the Bible says we must do to be saved, which is repent & believe, and asking why that wouldn’t require a choice on our part? We know man can’t see or understand until he is born again and given a new nature, elected by the Father, called and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. We know his willingness to turn to Christ is the result of that election, but a personal decision to do so seems to be a reasonable aspect of that process never-the-less. Maybe I’m missing something here. If so, I pray for more insight.

 

[GingerBeer]

The Bible does teach predestination/election through God’s sovereign plan, but for me, the question is, does God’s sovereign plan also include an element of man’s choice and free will?

It is hard to tell what is meant by PREDESTINATION because the definition varies from person to person. I am not sure that the bible teaches the specific predestination doctrine that the person I am chatting with means. I am not so sure that any of the definitions that I hear about is what the scriptures teach on the matter.

 

[inquiring mind]

It is hard to tell what is meant by PREDESTINATION because the definition varies from person to person. I am not sure that the bible teaches the specific predestination doctrine that the person I am chatting with means. I am not so sure that any of the definitions that I hear about is what the scriptures teach on the matter.

I can understand that.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think it is important that folks are free to believe what they want.

At the same time there is a direct relationship between what you believe, and how free you are in Him.

Absolute free will is a man made philosophical construct - we cant just decide to become an elephant.

So all choosing is within the bounds God has set, and always was.

Those who have gone through a train wreck of their lives, and have been rescued by Jesus, will be more likely to believe in total depravity and absolute grace, knowing they are not able to attribute their salvation to themselves.

Those who are purely presenting a theology based on scripture, run the risk of missing the heart of God just as the jewish scholars did.

Scripture without deep encounter with the Love of Jesus, the Holiness of God the Father and the Power of the Holy Spirit can be rather academic and often pedantic.

 

[GenemZ]

They were only able to accept God's drawing because He gave them the grace to accept.

He also gave grace to those who turn out to be the worst kind of reprobate. Given the same initial drawing grace to get them to see that God is real.

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against
all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress
the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known
about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain
to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s
invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature
—have been clearly seen, being understood from what
has been made, so that people are without excuse. Rom 1:18-20​

I believe in total depravity which means all aspects of our salvation journey are His work, not ours.

Man's flesh prevents man's soul from being able to choose for God.

Therefore, without God intervening it would be impossible to believe.

The sin nature resides in the flesh. Not in the soul.

So, God's grace suppresses the flesh's stronghold over the soul and allows for one's soul to choose. That is why we need grace.

God's drawing is irresistible for those chosen for salvation.

Romans 1:19-20, says that the worst unbeliever is without excuse. That they resisted.

 

[GenemZ]

It is hard to tell what is meant by PREDESTINATION because the definition varies from person to person. I am not sure that the bible teaches the specific predestination doctrine that the person I am chatting with means. I am not so sure that any of the definitions that I hear about is what the scriptures teach on the matter.

Jesus was predestined. We are IN Christ just as Eve was in Adam. In the Resurrection we shall become one flesh. What is His will be ours. Being co-heirs with Christ makes us predestined IN Him.

 

[Carl Emerson]

He also gave grace to those who turn out to be the worst kind of reprobate. Given the same initial drawing grace to get them to see that God is real.

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against
all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress
the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known
about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain
to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s
invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature
—have been clearly seen, being understood from what
has been made, so that people are without excuse. Rom 1:18-20​

Man's flesh prevents man's soul from being able to choose for God.

Therefore, without God intervening it would be impossible to believe.

The sin nature resides in the flesh. Not in the soul.

So, God's grace suppresses the flesh's stronghold over the soul and allows for one's soul to choose. That is why we need grace.



Romans 1:19-20, says that the worst unbeliever is without excuse. That they resisted.

Romans 1 18-20 is not referring to those drawn by God. It refers to all humans, and makes clear that He evidences Himself to all. This does not mean He draws all.

 

[inquiring mind]

So, God's grace suppresses the flesh's stronghold over the soul and allows for one's soul to choose. That is why we need grace.

Yes, we need God's grace to even hear His call, but do you not consider this (bold) a point of personal 'choice' for us??? Or, are you saying this is a robotic decision after God's intervention?