The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[FineLinen]

Originally Posted by KJoe11
I responded to your Christianity. My faith comes from the Spirit, my knowledge comes from the Scriptures. My response is the combination of these two Truths.
On this forum you are allowed to refer to yourself anyway you wish. But I am also allowed to disagree with your religion

Your like minded followers is an interesting study. You come up with nice and pretty sounding platitudes but really offers little value or substance. I am very confident that you have pages of these nice sounding (and overused) phrases. You just pluck them out and paste them in.

Dear KJoe:

The "nice sounding platitudes" you can, and evidently will, continue to disagree with until the cows come home or our Father in His love and grace gives you a new vision of Himself.

Platitude #1=

Jesus Christ is 100% successful as Saviour.

"God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind & especially those who trust in Him/ who believe. Command this and teach this."

That my friend, is NOT F.L. 4:10, but the religious platitude of St. Paul.

Please note

God is NOT a potential Saviour: He IS Saviour!

He is Saviour of ALL mankind, with a special emphasis on "those who believe/trust in Him. "

God's success rate is 100% successful!

 

[FineLinen]

"For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Questions=

1. How many are "made sinners" by one man's disobedience?

2. How many are "made righteous" by one?

3. How much is "many"?

4. Are both sides equal?

Many>>>>>>Many

What is an equation?

Equation=

n. The act or process of equating or of being equated.

n. The state of being equal.

n. A statement asserting the equality of two expressions, usually written as a linear array of symbols that are separated into left and right sides and joined by an equal sign.

One man’s disobedience outcome= many made sinners.

One Man’s obedience outcome= many made righteous.

One man’s disobedience outcome= polus made sinners.

One Man’s obedience outcome= polus made righteous.

Polus made sinners>>>>>>>polus made righteous.

 

[FineLinen]

The F.L. quote of the day=

Originally Posted by pcamps
"Who is eventually going to plug the incessant flow of the super abounding grace, mercy and love of God ? This flow like the sound of many waters is continually speaking grace, mercy, love and peace. It never dries up, it’s continually there. If you are still, you can hear it, it does no harm other than erode all your false beliefs, conceptions and assumptions about your Heavenly Father away when you hear it.

How possibly can there be a place of eternal torment, never mind one created by our Heavenly Father?

And his voice was like the sound of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory."




Incessant super abounding flow of mercy and love of God.

 

[FineLinen]

Osgard asks

Is this a religion that saves all? Universalist?
Or is this a religion where only the elect are saved?
And all else eternal doom or removed from existence?

Dear Osgart:

This is not a religion, but a Father who saves the all (ta panta). It is also a Father who saves the "especially" in extraordinary dimensions, but is the God who IS the Saviour of all mankind. The final chapter of His Plan is not consummated at the moment, but fear not, in the final chapter there is NO CURSE and the all transformed and made new.

 

[Saint Steven]

Compare.

> If we declare with our mouth that “Jesus is Lord,” we will be saved. (Rom.10:9)
> Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. (Phil.2:9-11)
= Therefore every confessor shall be saved. In this age, or in the age to come.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth,
“Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved.

Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Saint Steven]

The F.L. quote of the day=

Originally Posted by pcamps
"Who is eventually going to plug the incessant flow of the super abounding grace, mercy and love of God ? This flow like the sound of many waters is continually speaking grace, mercy, love and peace. It never dries up, it’s continually there. If you are still, you can hear it, it does no harm other than erode all your false beliefs, conceptions and assumptions about your Heavenly Father away when you hear it.

How possibly can there be a place of eternal torment, never mind one created by our Heavenly Father?

And his voice was like the sound of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory."

Incessant super abounding flow of mercy and love of God.

John 7:38
Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

 

[Saint Steven]

Dear Hillsage: Think of all we are learning. Every word of Scripture is "plain and clearly stated." 2000 years ago the Master called disciples unto Himself: His words were clear "You did NOT choose me." Today 2000 years later we have evolved in the Churchianity world to>>> "You must choose Me."

It is always a pleasure seeing you again. BNR, must come by the way of disclosure, without which he will wander among the gravestones of orthodoxy. Maybe, just maybe, He will come to the One who changes crawling creatures into butterflies by metamoroo!

"... wander among the gravestones of orthodoxy. ..."

Wow. Cemetery graduates.

 

[Saint Steven]

I pray for guidance and understanding of His word every day.

That's great, but living water does not flow from the cup of orthodoxy.
New wine must be put in new wineskins.

 

[Light of the East]

Yes.

Those in Christ must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6 JLB

The things you are discussing, and the events and warnings given, are given specifically to the Jews of that time in warning of the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. You cannot have the Bible contradicting itself, can you? So when we see that the Bible promises eventual salvation for all (some the easy way through repentance and change here, and some the hard way through hell after death) and it contradicts what you posted, something is wrong.

The key is understanding to whom the warnings were being given. The 1st century Jews who either refused to believe or would fall away. In AD 70, these warnings came true in a horrible massacre in which over 1 million Jews died.

 

[Light of the East]

If universalism were true there would be no reason to fear GOD. That is why it is such a pernicious doctrine - it subverts the fear of GOD.

Only if it is preached improperly. Anyone who preaches that there is salvation without a corresponding punishment of sin is lying to people. The love of God will be experienced by sinners as torment, and the worse the sins, the worse the torment. I have no doubt that in terms of chronological time, there are still people from the first century who are in agony as their sin is removed from them.

The loving thing to do is to warn people that their sin has consequences but that Christ's death on the Cross will forgive them and unite them to Himself so they can A.) escape punishment B.) taste and see how good the Lord is.

 

[Saint Steven]

There are several references to hell. Hell, Gehenna, eternal fire, eternal punishment, the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, cast into the fire, outer darkness, are just a few right off the top of my head. I’m sure I missed several more.

I’ve already shown verses and Strong’s concordance not to mention the other post regarding pas and His in depth lexicon definitions that prove that pas “all” does not always refer to all or everyone and can also refer to groups of individuals.

I think I have asked you this before with no response. (I apologize if I missed your reply)

Do you:
1) hope that Universalism is right and want to learn more about it, or...
2) not believe in Universalism and hope to prove it wrong?

Is a forever burning hell critical to your belief system? If so, why?

 

[Light of the East]

so judas and hitler were in Christ?

Sorry to get to the party late.

Tell me why they wouldn't be included!

 

[Light of the East]

The opinion of men doesn't hold any sway over our eternal destiny. There is only one pertinent question: Did the Lord Jesus teach that there is an eternal hell? The answer is yes. Jesus taught more on hell than anyone else in scripture.

No, He didn't! Stop it! Stop being misled by religious institutions who want you to grovel before them in fear so you behave. Jesus spoke to the JEWS and spoke in their language. Judaism had NO IDEA of the pagan thoughts of an eternal punishment which is fit only for pagan "gods" who have passions like we do. Such an idea humanizes the One Who is completely different from and above us, making the True and Living God to be just another in the pantheon of vengeful and irate "gods" who seek to vent their spleen on their enemies.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Sorry to get to the party late.

Tell me why they wouldn't be included!

them not being in Christ isn't enough?

 

[Light of the East]

well, good luck on creating your own religion.

have a good day.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?????? You follow a religion made up by a man in the 16th century and you have the nerve to make such a statement!

WOW!

Talk about chutzpah!!!

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

You follow a religion made up by a man in the 16th century

wasn't aware the scriptures were written in the 16th century.

 

[Light of the East]

them not being in Christ isn't enough?

I agree. But you haven't proved that they will not at some point in God's economy find themselves in Christ.

Here.....may I ask you to read this and think about it?

God’s Hand & Our Free Will

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I agree. But you haven't proved that they will not at some point in God's economy find themselves in Christ.

Here.....may I ask you to read this and think about it?

God’s Hand & Our Free Will

I'm not required to prove negatives.

you prove that two people who died outside of Christ will be saved.

 

[Light of the East]

wasn't aware the scriptures were written in the 16th century.

Calvin made up a religion by putting an interpretation on the Sacred Scriptures which had never been taught by the Church. BTW - you are speaking with an X-Calvinist here, so I have had to make this discovery for myself. I honestly thought at one time that Calvinism and the particulars to that teaching were taught in the first three centuries of the Church, that the horrible Catholic Church suppressed those teachings beginning with Constantine, and that Calvin and the Reformers actually restored the "pure worship" of the Apostles.

BOY, WAS I WRONG!

A reading of the Early Fathers cured me of such nonsense.

 

[Light of the East]

I'm not required to prove negatives.

you prove that two people who died outside of Christ will be saved.

So you don't wish to read anything that might challenge your perspective. How very adult of you.