The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

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FineLinen

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Maybe Earth and humanity is unique in the cosmos, where of all things in the Universe that may exist anywhere in the countless galaxies that outnumber the number of stars in our own galaxy, our Savior and God, creator of all, came here to do His crowning work, and here we are, many of us perhaps (myself having been so too), thinking things so mundane, boring, and even hating our selves (I've tried suicide before) when being even the "least" / last or however one may believe oneself to be here as a human being is still a greater opportunity than everywhere else as anything else in the Universe.

Edit: Typo/clarity

Dear Elixer: The vast enterprises of our God are continuing to unfold before us. The common bush Eliz. B. Browning describes, glows with fire and no longer is common, but the very place we cast off our shoes in the lambent glow of His appearing. I know this, our God is calling to His remnant, the "especially" of His great love and grace. That call, as our ears are dug by His mighty anointing, hear words, yes wind words, that say arise come away to Me. All else is indeed mundane in the light of His glory.

My brother, may His great glory be yours as you walk before Him!

"But grief still has to be worked through. It is like walking through water. Sometimes there are little waves lapping about my feet. Sometimes there is an enormous breaker that knocks me down. Sometimes there is a sudden and fierce squall. But I know that many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it." -Madeleine L'Engle-

God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially those who trust in Him.
 
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FineLinen

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Love’s Goal

All that love is, God is, for God is love. As the negative side of love is unselfish - seeks not her own - so her positive side is concern for others, a deep, ardent, all consuming concern: dauntless, self-sacrificing, invincible. “Love never fails.” Such is the divine essence and this it is that is imparted to the creature.

There can be no self-complacency with God, neither could He provide a self-satisfied salvation. Divine joy is in the fullness of love, and love is all-embracing.

To speak of a happy shepherd with an incomplete flock, or even of a happy flock with comrades missing, would be to malign both sheep and shepherd.

Heaven’s joys will be full only when sin’s sorrow cease. “Tis of mine” will be the yearning cry of the Good Shepherd spirit in the bosom of both saint and Saviour until the last of all the lost has been gathered home. Love cannot omit; His soul travail was for all. Neither can love abandon or forget. His purpose, as His promise, is “until He find it”. Thus it is that He is yet to “see of the travail of His soul and be satisfied.” And surely we too shall be satisfied when conformed to this likeness. Oh, the fullness of heaven’s joy when sin’s sorrows shall have ceased! -D. Buchanan-

99 is NOT enough!
 
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FineLinen

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The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. R. F. Weymouth

Eternal: Greek: "aeonion," i.e., "of the ages." Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify "during," but "belong to" the aeons or ages."

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (vol. IV, p. 643)

Time: The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion originally meant "vital force," "life," then "age," "lifetime."

Elliot's Commentary on the Whole Bible (Matt. 25:46)

Everlasting punishment--life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios-it must be admitted that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending (Rom. 16:25).

Hasting's Dictionary of the New Testament (Vol. I, p. 542, art. Christ and the Gospels)

Eternity. There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity. (Vol. III, p. 369): Eternal, everlasting-nonetheless "eternal" is misleading, inasmuch as it has come in the English to connote the idea of "endlessly existing," and thus to be practically a synonym for "everlasting." But this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the variations of the noun aion from which it comes. (p. 370):

The chronoios aioniois moreover, are not to be thought of as stretching backward everlastingly, as it is proved by the pro chronon aionion of II Tim. 1:9; Titus. 1:2. (Note: pro chronon aionion means "BEFORE times eonian." Since this Scripture tells us that there was time "before" eonian, eionian cannot possibly mean eternal, for nothing can be "before" eternity.)

The large Catholic Bible dictionary, The Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible (p. 693)

ETERNITY: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in the philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8; etc.) or with various prepositions (Gen. 3:22; etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated as 'forever,' means in itself no more than 'for an indefinitely long period." Thus me olam does not mean 'from eternity' but 'of old' Gen. 6:4; etc.). In the N.T. aion is used as the equivalent of olam. (Note: even the Catholic translators of The Jerusalem Bible and The New American Bible have failed to heed the scholarship of their own Catholic authorities.)

Dr. R. F. Weymouth, a translator who was adept in Greek, states in The New Testament in Modern Speech (p. 657)

Eternal, Greek aeonion, i.e., of the ages: Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed does not signify, "during" but "belonging to" the aeons or ages.

Dr. Marvin Vincent, Word Studies of the New Testament (Vol. IV, p. 59).

The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective in themselves carries the sense of "endless" or "everlasting.' Anionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time.

Dr. F. W. Farrar, author of The Life of Christ and The Life and Word of St. Paul, as well as books about Greek grammar and syntax, writes in The Eternal Hope (p. 198)

In Dr. Farrar's book, Mercy and Judgment, (p. 378)

"Since aion meant 'age,' aionios means, properly, 'belonging to an age,' or 'age-long,' and anyone who asserts that it must mean 'endless' defends a position which even Augustine practically abandoned twelve centuries ago. Even if aion always meant 'eternity,' which is not the case in classic or Hellenistic Greek- aionios could still mean only 'belonging to eternity' and not 'lasting through it."

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, (Vol. 4, p. 641)

"The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the concept of eternity as timelessness." Page 655: "The O.T. has not developed a special term for eternity." Page 645: "The use of the word aion in the N.T. is determined very much by the O.T. and the LXX. Aion means long, distant, uninterrupted time. The intensifying plural occurs frequently in the N.T. but it adds no new meaning."

Dr. Edward Plumptre, an eschatologist

"I fail to find, as is used by the Greek Fathers, any instance in which the idea of time duration is unlimited."

Time and Eternity by G. T. Stevenson, (p. 63)

"Since, as we have seen, the noun aion refers to a period of time it appears, very improbable that the derived adjective aionios would indicate infinite duration, nor have we found any evidence in Greek writing to show that such a concept was expressed by this term."

Professor Herman Oldhausen, German Lutheran theologian

"The Bible has no expression for endlessness. All the Biblical terms imply or denote long periods."

Professor Knappe of Halle wrote

"The Hebrew was destitute of any single word to express endless duration. The pure idea of eternity is not found in any of the ancient languages."

An Alphabetical Analysis by Charles H. Welch (Editor of The Berean Expositor and a man well versed in Greek), (Vol. 1, p. 279)

"Eternity is not a Biblical theme." (Vol. 1, p. 52), "What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration is entirely outside the scope of revelation."

Dr. Mangey, a translator of the writings of Philo, says

"Philo did not use aionios to express endless duration."

The Complete Works of Falvius Josephus.

Josephus obviously did not consider anionios to be "everlasting," seeing that he uses the word to represent the period of time between the giving of the law of Moses and that of his own writing [clearly not an eternity] . He also assigns aionios to the period of imprisonment of the tyrant John by the Romans [clearly he was not imprisoned for an eternity] , and also for the period during which Herod's temple stood [since Herod's temple was not even standing at the time Josephus wrote, it too proves that Josephus did not mean 'eternity' when he wrote 'aionios'] .

Saint Gregory of Nyssa speaks of anionios diastema

"an eonian interval." How many intervals do you know of that are "endless" or "eternal?"

Saint Chrysostum, in his homily on Eph. 2:1-3

"Satan's kingdom is aeonian; that is, it will cease with the present world."

Saint Justin Martyr, in the Apol. (p. 57)

Used the word aionios repeatedly: aionion kolasin...all ouchi chiliontaete periodon, "eonian chastening but a period, not a thousand years," or as some translate this clause "but a period of a thousand years only." Hence, to Justin Martyr, aionios was certainly not "endless."

Dr. O.B. Jenkins

Time or Character, The Ages or A Time Sequence in <em>aionios</em>: How Words "Mean" in Greek and English

Life Time Entirety. A Study of AION in Greek Literature and Philosophy, the Septuagint and Philo
 
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FineLinen

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Good morning friends: Do you see the triumphal procession coming down your wee road yet? Can your ears hear the sound of great joy coming from the Choir of antiphonal worship of the Angelic Host calling to one another: "Holy">>>Holy>>>Holy is the Lord?

"Behold I bring you glad tidings of great joy which shall be to ALL people"
 
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FineLinen

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And now: a word from the angels>>>

"Do not be afraid for I am bringing you good news of great joy, a joy for which all peoples will share."

Note: not some people, not many people, "all peoples will share"!

Wildly>>Extravagant>>Breathtaking>>Recovery>> Prevails!
 
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Lazarus Short

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All this talk of fire puts me in mind of the Electric Universe Model, which states that most (like 99%) of the physical universe is plasma, a form of matter which is basically FLAME. Our wet bodies of slow oxydation are surely an anomaly. Thoughts?
 
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Hillsage

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All this talk of fire puts me in mind of the Electric Universe Model, which states that most (like 99%) of the physical universe is plasma, a form of matter which is basically FLAME. Our wet bodies of slow oxydation are surely an anomaly. Thoughts?
I just have one "thought".....Beyond my pay grade. ;) I can spell oxidation better though....I think. :)
 
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FineLinen

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All this talk of fire puts me in mind of the Electric Universe Model, which states that most (like 99%) of the physical universe is plasma, a form of matter which is basically FLAME. Our wet bodies of slow oxydation are surely an anomaly. Thoughts?

The Electric Universe Theory

Dear Lazarus: The entire idea is beyond my frail mind but an exciting model indeed.

John 3:12 NIV: I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
 
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To say on the authority of the Bible that God does a thing no honourable man would do, is to lie against God; to say that it is therefore right, is to lie against the very spirit of God. To uphold a lie for God’s sake is to be against God, not for him.

But where an evil thing is invented to explain and account for a good thing, and a lover of God is called upon to believe the invention or be cast out, he needs not mind being cast out, for it is into the company of Jesus.

Where there is no ground to believe that God does a thing except that men who would explain God have believed and taught it, he is not a true man who accepts men against his own conscience of God. I acknowledge no authority calling upon me to believe a thing of God, which I could not be a man and believe right in my fellow-man. I will accept no explanation of any way of God which explanation involves what I should scorn as false and unfair in a man.

If you say, That may be right of God to do which it would not be right of man to do, I answer, Yes, because the relation of the maker to his creatures is very different from the relation of one of those creatures to another, and he has therefore duties toward his creatures requiring of him what no man would have the right to do to his fellow-man; but he can have no duty that is not both just and merciful.

More is required of the Maker, by his own act of creation, than can be required of men. More and higher justice and righteousness is required of him by himself, the Truth;—greater nobleness, more penetrating sympathy; and nothing but what, if an honest man understood it, he would say was right.

Justice -George MacDonald-

http://www.ccel.org/m/macdonald/unspoken3/unspoken3.htm
 
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kmom2;55825986 said:
The reason hell is such a dangerous doctrine is because we become exactly like the God we worship (this is another thread on the Religion discussion as well). If we worship a God who tortures people endlessly for finite transgressions, that has a way of changing who we are in a very ugly way. If we worship a God who is love, who forgives seventy times seven and then some, who doesn't leave us or abandon us no matter where we go, who loves enemies, who tells us not to judge, who is the perfect love that casts out fear...then that weaves its way into who we are and how we act.

And you cannot just "read his word and understand his decrees." First of all, his "word" is the living Christ, not a book, and reading and understanding requires interpretation, which is always through a veil of psychological projection, cultural influences, personal biases, IQ, and God knows what else, so it's never that easy. Thousands of biblical experts and theologians throughout the centuries have been wrong too many times to list.

Friends: once in a while on Christian threads a post appears that is exquisite. This is one of them.

"The reason hell is such a dangerous doctrine is because we become exactly like the God we worship (this is another thread on the Religion discussion as well). If we worship a God who tortures people endlessly for finite transgressions, that has a way of changing who we are in a very ugly way. If we worship a God who is love, who forgives seventy times seven and then some, who doesn't leave us or abandon us no matter where we go, who loves enemies, who tells us not to judge, who is the perfect love that casts out fear...then that weaves its way into who we are and how we act.

And you cannot just "read his word and understand his decrees." First of all, his "word" is the living Christ, not a book, and reading and understanding requires interpretation, which is always through a veil of psychological projection, cultural influences, personal biases, IQ, and God knows what else, so it's never that easy. Thousands of biblical experts and theologians throughout the centuries have been wrong too many times to list."
 
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Hillsage

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Friends: once in a while on Christian threads a post appears that is exquisite. This is one of them.

"The reason hell is such a dangerous doctrine is because we become exactly like the God we worship (this is another thread on the Religion discussion as well). If we worship a God who tortures people endlessly for finite transgressions, that has a way of changing who we are in a very ugly way. If we worship a God who is love, who forgives seventy times seven and then some, who doesn't leave us or abandon us no matter where we go, who loves enemies, who tells us not to judge, who is the perfect love that casts out fear...then that weaves its way into who we are and how we act.

And you cannot just "read his word and understand his decrees." First of all, his "word" is the living Christ, not a book, and reading and understanding requires interpretation, which is always through a veil of psychological projection, cultural influences, personal biases, IQ, and God knows what else, so it's never that easy. Thousands of biblical experts and theologians throughout the centuries have been wrong too many times to list."
This testimony goes right along with the comments I've often made concerning 'bloody Queen Mary'. The subliminal message of eternal hell is what motivated her to burn Christains alive at the stake, because they were 'heretics' according to the 'orthodox church doctrines of her day. Her comments of justification were; "God is going to burn them forever and I'm just helping them get started." Yep, it is the subliminal message that affects all who believe. Some it just affects more and some less. We can easily see it in those who oppose us on this thread. Some easily so, others less.
 
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FineLinen

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Originally Posted by Mike555
The same word - olam, is used for those who are resurrected to eternal life and for those who are resurrected to disgrace and everlasting contempt. The same duration has to apply to both as it does in Matthew 25:46. If eternal life is of unending duration then so is the duration of those who are resurrected to disgrace and contempt.

This will be simple for you Mikey.

Please list the qualifying factors (according to the context of St. Matt 25) of>>>

1. Everlasting life/ aionios zoē.

2. Everlasting punishment/ aionios/kolasis.

They are?????

Olam=

https://www.logosapostolic.org/hebre...verlasting.htm

"If we worship a God who tortures people endlessly for finite transgressions, that has a way of changing who we are in a very ugly way. If we worship a God who is love, who forgives seventy times seven and then some, who doesn't leave us or abandon us no matter where we go, who loves enemies, who tells us not to judge, who is the perfect love that casts out fear...then that weaves its way into who we are and how we act." -Kmom2-
 
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Kolasis aionion -Matthew 25:46-

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.

Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46

Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).

Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

Scarlett’s New Testament written in 1792 has “aeonian punishment” in place to “everlasting punishment.”

“And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life.”

The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:

“And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.”

Young’s Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:

“And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.”

Professor Young also compiled Young’s Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.

The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:

“And these last will go away ‘into aeonian punishment,’ but the righteous ‘into aeonian life.’”

The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:

"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.

The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:

“And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages.”

Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as “life of the ages,” “fire of the ages;” and in Rev. 14:6, “The good news of the ages.”

It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth’s version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.

The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:

“And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word “forever” which is the same word for “eternal” which says: "Literally, for the age.”

Clementson’s The New Testament (1938) shows,

“And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”

Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,

“And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life.”

It should be noted that the “cutting-off” refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit.

The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word “timoria.”

The Concordant Version (1930):

“And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”

The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:

“And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.”

Joseph B. Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,

“and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.”

The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976

has “age-abiding correction” instead of “everlasting punishment.”

Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has

"And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.

Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King’s translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.”

The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.

Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46

“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”

“God is the Source, Guide & Goal of ta panta (the all)”

“From Him ta panta, through Him ta panta, in Him ta panta”
 
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KJoe11;55831793 said:
Sorry I don't follow your religion. I believe in Truth and Jesus promised to save me and other like minded from everlasting torment. Unfortunately, He made no promises to you and your follows. He has made some serious threats against you though. I would take it with extreme caution and seriousness

Dear KJoe: My "religion"=

1. Jesus Christ is 100% successful as Saviour.

2. Jesus Christ loses NOTHING, not leftover pieces of bread and fish, and not any fallen sons of Adam1.

3. Jesus Christ equalizes the same mass "made sinners" into the identical mass "made righteous".

4. All death is swallowed in victory.

5. Every knee bows in absolute union IN/EN the Names of all names in every dimension of heaven, earth, and underworld.

6. Creation longs for deliverance, it shall be delivered!

7. All/pas radically means all.

8. In Adam 1 ALL die, in the Last Adam all shall live.

9. The last enemy, death, has a limited future. It shall be NO more!

10. God is the Source, Guide, Goal of the all/ the ta panta.

Our God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, has not cursed His creation, and is in fact the Saviour of all that has been broken and bent by one man's sin. The day of hurts will be adequately met by the One who declares>>>

The WHOLE of created life shall be delivered/set free/ emancipated from the tyranny of change and decay

Yes KJoe, the whole radical all will be delivered!

Not a few choice few, not some, the whole radical ALL, shall be delivered!

And there shall be NO MORE curse!
 
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The Scope Of Restitution=

"But (now) to each one of us was (is) given the Grace down from (in accord with) the measure of the undeserved gift of the Christ. For this reason He (it) is constantly saying, "Going up (stepping up; ascending) into a height (unto [the] summit) He led (leads) captive a captive multitude [or: He led "captivity" captive] He gave (gives) gifts to mankind (or: to/for the men)." Now (but) this "He went up (ascended)," what is it if not (except) that He also descended (stepped down) into the lower parts (the under regions) of the earth (land)? The One stepping down (descending) is Himself also the One stepping (going) up (ascending) far above (back up over) all of the heavens, to the end that He may make the Whole full [or: may fill up everything (the All)]. -Jonathan Mitchell N.T.-

Weymouth New Testament Bible

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"There is but one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all, who rules over all, acts through all, and dwells in all. Yet to each of us individually grace was given, measured out with the munificence of Christ. For this reason Scripture says: 'He re-ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, and gave gifts to men.' (Now this 're-ascended' --what does it mean but that He had first descended into the lower regions of the earth? He who descended is the same as He who ascended again far above all the Heavens in order to fill the universe."

Note

He will fill the Universe (everything)!

"For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved thru water...Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead...for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
 
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Questions Requiring Answers

1. Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?

2. As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)

3. Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?

4. If God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?

5. Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)

6. If God loves His enemies now, will he not always love them?

7. Is it just for God to be "kind to the evil and unthankful," in their present life? (Luke 6:35)

8. Would it be unjust for God to be kind to all men in a future state?

9. If all men justly deserve endless punishment, will not those who are saved, be saved unjustly?

10. If God "will by no means clear the guilty," by what means can just punishment be evaded? (Ex. 34:7)

11. As no man can measure endless punishment to his neighbor, will endless punishment be measured to him? (Luke 4:38)

12. Would it be merciful in God to inflict endless punishment? -- that is, merciful to the sufferer?

13. Can that be just which is not merciful?

14. Do not cruelty and injustice go hand in hand?

15. Can that be merciful which is not just?

Questions Without Answers
 
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