Infant Baptism

[Albion]

Also, I'd say that perhaps its in poor form to turn this thread into a debate about infant baptism. We have a sister in Christ who expressed her preference for the practice and so we should simply answer the question to the best of our ability.

I agree, but with no follow-up from our inquirer, I suppose it was inevitable. Maybe that just says we did a good job of answering her question.

 

[mama2one]

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[mama2one]

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[TKA_TN]

Repent and be baptised. Babies can't repent. Baptism is only valid once a person has 'seen the light', been born again, or accepted Jesus as Saviour. Infants can't do that. Where in the Bible does it explicitly say to baptize infants?

"This promise is for you and your children..." is what Peter says right after that.

 

[TKA_TN]

Baby dedication is not the same as infant baptism. It is a common practice among Baptists, Anabaptists, and Evangelicals for whom baptism is only an outward symbol of an inward change and reserved for those beyond an age of accountability.

However since you're going to a *reformed* baptist church I'm assuming that you're not going to just want to switch to a denomination that baptizes infants, but a Calvinist denomination that baptizes infants. This will take most of the infant baptizing denominations off the table as they (Orthodox, Lutheran, Catholic) are not Calvinists.

Given where you are currently attending, the following denominations would be a reasonable choice:

Presbyterian Church of America
https://pcanet.org/

Christian Reformed Church
Christian Reformed Church

If you're not philosophically in strong agreement with Calvinism and it isnt one of the reasons why you've specifically selected a reformed baptist church to attend, I'd choose one of these five all of which practice infant baptism:

Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America

The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia - Official Website

Orthodox Church in America

Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Locate A Church

https://wels.net/

Also, I'd say that perhaps its in poor form to turn this thread into a debate about infant baptism. We have a sister in Christ who expressed her preference for the practice and so we should simply answer the question to the best of our ability.

You're right. To the OP, this is a great post to look at. Sorry I have taken part in the debate.

 

[Albion]

The only reason that instances are recorded in the New Testament of followers of Christ speaking to adult converts about being baptized is because, when the whole world is to be evangelized, OF COURSE they would go first to adults! Wouldn't you? You wouldn't expect them to cruise schoolyards trying to convince children, would you???? But when it says that "whole households" were baptized, as the NT says, it means children, too.

In fact, it is ludicrous to assume (which advocates of "believers baptism" often do) either that 1) there were no children in the households of people of that place and time OR that 2) the parents would join a new religion and insist that their own children be excluded from it.

 

[PoppyB]

I have three adult children and I am fully understanding of the desire to do something, for our infants, in order to give some sort of closer to their eternal home.

However, I believe that no matter what we do at the front of a church, for our infants... in the end... it will come down to them making a choice, on their own, when they reach an age where they are, in God's eyes, responsible for their decisions.

You can sprinkle, baptize, dedicate or whatever.... in the end.. your child will grow up and go down the road that they choose.

I have several friends who's parents left the Catholic church... all church in fact, due to a priest coming to the house and, basically, saying that their child will go to hell if they don't baptize them.

I hold to the view that any human that does not have the mental capacity to understand right from wrong or make decisions of the magnitude of eternal destinations... will not be condemned by our God who personifies Love.

This means infants, children and mentally challenged people with CP or autism or such medical problems.

We dedicated each child to God and the church. Basically stating publicly that we were going to raise the child in the ways of Christ, to the best of our ability and that the church was also given permission to help in this matter.

We then raised and taught them the ways of the bible and Christ.... and... to be good stewards and contribute to society.

Never did we believe that this, in any way shape or form, saved our child.

I have three grown up children. They were all Christened/'baptised' as babies. None of them have yet chosen to follow Jesus.

 

[PoppyB]

"This promise is for you and your children..." is what Peter says right after that.

Quite right, when my children accept Jesus I will encourage them to be baptised.

 

[JacksBratt]

I have three grown up children. They were all Christened/'baptised' as babies. None of them have yet chosen to follow Jesus.

I understand what you are saying.. but, what good did the baptism do? Does it have any lasting effect?

 

[PoppyB]

I understand what you are saying.. but, what good did the baptism do? Does it have any lasting effect?

No it didn't. Because they didn't make the choice. I wasn't a Christian then and I did it because it was what people did. Not based on a relationship with Jesus. That is why I am so strongly against infant 'baptism'. Many people who have been through that 'baptism' as infants are then under the false impression that it was a true baptism but it isn't. We can only truly be baptised after we make the choice to follow Jesus, whatever certain churches say. In the end God's authority overrules that of the church.

 

[Albion]

I have three grown up children. They were all Christened/'baptised' as babies. None of them have yet chosen to follow Jesus.

And that proves what about them as people who received God's sacrament in infancy?

There are all sorts of people who leave the church in later life, or OTOH grow in grace instead...or just about any other scenario you can mention.

Baptism is important and beneficial; that doesn't mean it guarantees a certain outcome--not anymore than receiving a 'Believers Baptism' as a teenager or adult does.

 

[Baileyscave]

I am still here! Reading all the replies, and they have given me a lot of food for thought. I admit, I am ALL OVER THE PLACE! One moment to the next with how I feel about this. One regard, I see how baptism as infants is in the Bible (OT), but that it does not guarantee nor the same as a believers baptism. I inquired about another local, huge church about a dedication service. I have also thought about the local Presbyterian church (The Lutheran Montessori churches suggested by an earlier poster are unfortunately over a 45 minute drive from my house). I am also thinking of what everyone is saying how infant baptism is no guarantee my daughter will become and accept Christ growing up. I do want the best church environment for that, however I am really torn between something traditional, versus a more contemporary church that will speak more on her level growing up. Definitely do not want to create a lot of controversy by saying that, but I do realize kids need something that will speak to their level and feed them spiritually, as well as us as parents. I have a lot of important decisions to make!

 

[Baileyscave]

By the way, thank you to everyone who has replied thus far. I am sharing these posts with my husband and all of the posters are giving us very important food for thought. Thank you very blessing us with a response, and even challenging us and why/how we believe, asking ourselves what is important at this point...

 

[PoppyB]

And that proves what about them as people who received God's sacrament in infancy?

It's not supposed to prove anything. They are all lovely people who in spite of being 'baptised' as infants have not had much to do with church because when they were little I wasn't a Christian. And now that I am I wouldn't do it. As a Christian I would want my babies to be blessed and prayed over and then choose to come to Jesus and then be baptised by their own choice.

 

[Albion]

It's not supposed to prove anything. They are all lovely people who in spite of being 'baptised' as infants have not had much to do with church because when they were little I wasn't a Christian. And now that I am I wouldn't do it.

Okay. I guess I just don't follow the logic there. There seems to be a firm decision against (although for no particular reason) giving ones children the benefit of the sacrament, not an absence of a preference one way or the other.

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

Why do babies need the waters of baptism.... What would happen to the soul of an infant if this is not done?

I do feel very badly that it sounds like a debate. What you asked is exactly what I was wondering since none of my 3 kids were baptised as infants. Believe me I do want the best for the person's baby who asked the question. I pray right now that the child would come to know and love the Lord with all their heart, soul, mind and strength from a very early age and that they would never depart from it and live the most blessed spirit filled life for Christ.

But, before a decision is made, I think it is very healthy to make certain that we are not doing just doing man made rituals just to satisfy a relative, tradition or out of a fear or concern that we cannot trust God to save those who die prior to coming to the age of decision, or that we are trying to find a 100% certain way to save our children for them, instead of allowing them to come to their own love for Christ and accepting His call to them.

Many who are baptised just could care less about the Lord as children and adults, but then feel they are "good to go" because of their infant baptism. You can tell a tree by its fruit. Infant baptism does not seem to bear fruit.

So my concern is that If infant baptism is the only way a child would get grace from our good God, then I am truly concerned about all those aborted babies and those that are born and die young. Did God knit them in the womb to perish? Why does infant baptism not seem to have any notable bearing on whether that child seems to have a grace filled life. "As a child, Hitler was baptized into the Catholic Church. He was an altar boy, and at one point he even wanted to become a priest. But as history would later show, a church member and a Christian are two different things." ( taken from Ray Comfort, the author of Hitler, God & the Bible. ). I am not saying this in itself is a reason not to have an infant baptism (because of course he is the extreme), but that it is certainly not a cure all for the human condition of sin. But yet baptism in the scripture is supposed to signify a "re-birth". That one is born again as Jesus described in John 3:5.

This is certainly is a confusing topic and I guess God knows in your heart your motivation. That is the great thing about God. He knows our heart and our inner-most desire. I truly believe that if infant baptism were something that God needed us to do for our children, that it would have been clearer since the scriptures do say that there is to be only 1 baptism. Peace to you all as you pray for wisdom from the Lord who gives generously to all those who ask.
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[PoppyB]

I am still here! Reading all the replies, and they have given me a lot of food for thought. I admit, I am ALL OVER THE PLACE! One moment to the next with how I feel about this. One regard, I see how baptism as infants is in the Bible (OT), but that it does not guarantee nor the same as a believers baptism. I inquired about another local, huge church about a dedication service. I have also thought about the local Presbyterian church (The Lutheran Montessori churches suggested by an earlier poster are unfortunately over a 45 minute drive from my house). I am also thinking of what everyone is saying how infant baptism is no guarantee my daughter will become and accept Christ growing up. I do want the best church environment for that, however I am really torn between something traditional, versus a more contemporary church that will speak more on her level growing up. Definitely do not want to create a lot of controversy by saying that, but I do realize kids need something that will speak to their level and feed them spiritually, as well as us as parents. I have a lot of important decisions to make!

It's quite a decision to make and I pray you will find your answer. God will guide you.

I became a Christian when my son was a baby, and although we had a brilliant church where he was baptised and another brilliant church where his dad and I were baptised, which had a wonderful children's ministry, he is still not a Christian. You can teach you babies about Jesus but you can't make them love him. That has to be their own decision.

 

[PoppyB]

Okay. I guess I just don't follow the logic there. There seems to be a firm decision against (although for no particular reason) giving ones children the benefit of the sacrament, not an absence of a preference one way or the other.

I don't count infant 'baptism' as a sacrament. To me it is pointless. And the logic was that it guarantees nothing.

 

[Albion]

Many who are baptised just could care less about the Lord as children and adults, but then feel they are "good to go" because of their infant baptism. You can tell a tree by its fruit. Infant baptism does not seem to bear fruit.

If you say "many," I guess we cannot second-guess it since who knows how many "many" is or which people that includes?

However, I strenuously disagree with the idea that baptizing a child doesn't bear fruit. While that is possible--just as it is with people who wait until they are teens or adults, remember--I know all sort of people who felt special growing up knowing that they were the children of God and part of the church that their parents took them to and taught them about. To say to them that they aren't eligible, etc. does not seem a good way to insure that the faith will seem personal and/or meaningful to them!

And that is to say nothing about the grace imparted by the sacrament.

 

[JacksBratt]

No it didn't. Because they didn't make the choice. I wasn't a Christian then and I did it because it was what people did. Not based on a relationship with Jesus. That is why I am so strongly against infant 'baptism'. Many people who have been through that 'baptism' as infants are then under the false impression that it was a true baptism but it isn't. We can only truly be baptised after we make the choice to follow Jesus, whatever certain churches say. In the end God's authority overrules that of the church.

Thank you for that information... that is one of my arguments against the false hope or false security of "infant baptism"..... It may make the parent sleep better but only because the Priest tells them it does anything.

The child will still grow up and follow their roads.