Christians, War, and Violence

Dave L

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How do you balance living in a violent world with the teachings of Christ? For starters, I believe God is the same God of war as always. But the role of believers is different in the New Covenant. That is, we love our enemies, turn the other cheek when attacked. We do not resist violence but abandon it to the Lord who says vengeance belongs to him.

So I do not serve in the military or become a police officer whose life depends on doing the opposite of these. If an intruder tries to kill me or my family, I would rather we die upholding Jesus’ words than disobey only to suffer death from old age. Any alternative views on this?
 

d taylor

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Well as believers we were suppose to live in society, but yet be separate from non believers (not participating in acts or life style that a pagan society does). But since we as believers have failed that, looks like God has allowed believers to experience the same ills that has befallen the pagans/nonbelievers of the world.

violence, (murder, theft, illness, etc..)
 
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Dave L

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Didn't Christ live in a violent world?

And didn't he say he came with a sword?
Read the Sermon on the Mount if you want the purest form of Christianity. Matthew chapters 5-7 = zero physical violence
 
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Peter J Barban

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I want to warn everyone that the OP's biblical interpretation on nonviolence is dangerously flawed. (added after reading further posts)

1. The NT does not condemn soldiers or police officers, so it seems their work is as moral a butchers, bakers and candlestick makers. Even when Israel was occupied by Rome, Jesus did not condemn the foot soldiers of the empire.

2. Imagine a Christian nation of all who followed your views. There would be no police or military. How long would such a nation last?

3. You may be brave enough to allow your family to suffer for your beliefs, but is that voiding your duties to protect and provide for them? Should you force them to suffer for your beliefs, if they do not agree?
 
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Dave L

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1. The NT does not condemn soldiers or police officers, so it seems their work is as moral a butchers, bakers and candlestick makers. Even when Israel was occupied by Rome, Jesus did not condemn the foot soldiers of the empire.

2. Imagine a Christian nation of all who followed your views. There would be no police or military. How long would such a nation last?

3. You may be brave enough to allow your family to suffer for your beliefs, but is that voiding your duties to protect and provide for them? Should you force them to suffer for your beliefs, if they do not agree?
1) there is a mix of OT violence and NT pacifism before the crucifixion. If you keep these separate, the NT does not condone violence in any form.

2) There are no "Christian" nations. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world.

2) Christians did not defend themselves in the NT other than verbally. Jesus rebuked Peter for trying it.
 
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Lost4words

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Didn't Christ live in a violent world?

And didn't he say he came with a sword?

Jesus also said, live by the sword, die by the sword.

Matthew 26:52
52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
 
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Peter J Barban

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1) there is a mix of OT violence and NT pacifism before the crucifixion. If you keep these separate, the NT does not condone violence in any form.

2) There are no "Christian" nations. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world.

2) Christians did not defend themselves in the NT other than verbally. Jesus rebuked Peter for trying it.
Basically, people with your views can only exist as free riders in society. The more people who act as you do, the chaotic and prone to destruction it will become.

Also, you view that police and military are contrary to a life of Christian faith is not based on revelation, but upon questionable logic.

Is it right for you to force your family to suffer for your nonstandard, nonbiblical beliefs?
 
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Dave L

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Basically, people with your views can only exist as free riders in society. The more people who act as you do, the chaotic and prone to destruction it will become.

Also, you view that police and military are contrary to a life of Christian faith is not based on revelation, but upon questionable logic.

Is it right for you to force your family to suffer for your nonstandard, nonbiblical beliefs?
The NT is full of these views and those who practiced them.
 
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timewerx

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That is, we love our enemies, turn the other cheek when attacked.

Loving your enemies sometimes mean making a whip out of chords and violently driving them away from the temple! ;) ;) ;)

giphy.gif
 
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createdtoworship

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How do you balance living in a violent world with the teachings of Christ?

Can a Christian Be in the Military? My first two posts are against pacifism, my third post will be more information on what we should do as far as christianity and war.


Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
-This would most likely have been a Jewish short sword - a dagger used as protection against wild animals and robbers, considered so essential that even the "peace-loving Essenes" carried it, and it was permitted to be carried on the Sabbath as part of one's adornment. [See Hengel, Was Jesus a Revolutionist?, 21]… Josephus tells us that when Essenes went on a journey they had no need to take supplies with them, for they knew that their needs would be met by fellow members of their order; they did, however, carry arms to protect themselves against bandits.

Granted this was not a broad or long sword like those of the temple police, or roman guards. Yet it was a weapon for self-defense. A pacifist would not promote such self-defense.

So you must choose to accept that Jesus was not a strict pacifist.

WHY DID JESUS SAY TWO SWORDS WAS ENOUGH?


Many pacifists hold the argument that because Jesus said that only two swords is enough, and because two swords is not enough to protect twelve disciples that therefore Jesus motive for the buying of the swords was not for protection at all. And that is simply refuted in the verse, 36 of luke 22. It mentions that anyone that has a garment (or cloak), was to sell it and buy a sword. Some may not have had a cloak or garment to spare, and thus this is the reason for the limitation, the reason they were not more protected was that they did not have garments to spare. That is the most straight forward answer to refute the pacifist claims. But there are other explanations as well: This site mentions that it is possible that when Jesus said "it is enough" that it was talking not about the swords but about the words. Here is more on that:


"But as we see repeatedly throughout the Gospels, the disciples never really "got" the whole "Jesus is going to die and then be resurrected" thing until after it was all accomplished. Here, they hear him talking about swords, and someone says "yeah, we've got a couple here already." They just don't understand what he's trying to explain, and you can almost hear the Master's resigned sigh. "Sure, that'll be fine.""

Why did Jesus tell His disciples to buy a sword?


I tend to believe the first explanation over the second, but that is just my opinion.

another pastor and teacher that believes the second interpretation of this passage:


"c. It is enough means enough of this kind of talk (Jesus’ firm way of ending the conversation), not two swords will be enough. How could two swords ever be enough against all those who came to arrest Jesus?

i. Jesus’ disciples must be “just as determined and whole-hearted as a fighting man who gives up everything, even his garment, as long as he only possesses a sword to continue the struggle with.” (Geldenhuys)


-David Guzik is the new Senior Pastor of Calvary Chapel Santa Barbara. His excellent study materials have been edifying the Christian community for the past seven years. Currently he is the director of the Calvary Chapel Bible College in Siegen, Germany. Sources: Guzik, David. "Commentary on Luke 22:36". "David Guzik Commentaries on the Bible". "Luke 22 Commentary - James Burton Coffman Commentaries on the Bible. 1997-2003.

Other commentators who believe in a literal Luke 22:36:

----------------------------------------

And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.
The absolute pacifist tradition among Christians of all ages and the acceptance of it by many commentators make this verse "a real problem" for many. Most commentators view the passage as figurative, as did Geldenhuys, who said, "The Lord intended (these words) in a figurative sense."[19] But if the sword is figurative, what about the purse, the wallet, and the cloak?

As Hobbs said, "It is impossible to tone down this statement; neither can we dismiss it as not being a genuine saying of Jesus."[20] The clear meaning of the passage is that "a sword" is the one thing needful, even surpassing in priority such an important item as a cloak. The two errors to be avoided here are (1) the supposition that the gospel should be spread by the sword, and (2) the notion that a sword should ever be employed against lawful authority. Before the evening was over, the Lord would have further occasion to demonstrate the proper and improper uses of the sword. Barnes was certainly correct in his view that "These directions (concerning the sword) were not made with reference to his being taken in the garden but to their future lives."[21]

J. S. Lamar, an eminent Restoration scholar, expressed surprise "to find several of the ablest Protestant expositors interpreting (this passage) as a warrant for self-defense."[22] Nevertheless, the view maintained here is that self-defense is exactly what Jesus taught. Self-defense is a basic, natural right of all men, and there is no lawful government on earth that denies it. Just why should it be supposed that Jesus denied to Christians such a basic right has never been explained. "Resist not evil ... go the second mile ... turn the other cheek... give thy cloak also, etc." are not applicable to situations in which one's life is threatened, or endangered.

[19] Ibid., p. 672.

[20] Herschel H. Hobbs, An Exposition of the Gospel of Luke (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1966), p. 307.

[21] Albert Barnes, op. cit., p. 150.

[22] J. S. Lamar, The New Testament Commentary, Vol. II (Cincinnati, Ohio: Chase and Hall, 1877), p. 260.

Coffman, James Burton. "Commentary on Luke 22:36". "Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament". "Luke 22 Commentary - James Burton Coffman Commentaries on the Bible". Abilene Christian University Press, Abilene, Texas, USA. 1983-1999.


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createdtoworship

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How do you balance living in a violent world with the teachings of Christ? For starters, I believe God is the same God of war as always. But the role of believers is different in the New Covenant. That is, we love our enemies, turn the other cheek when attacked. We do not resist violence but abandon it to the Lord who says vengeance belongs to him.

So I do not serve in the military or become a police officer whose life depends on doing the opposite of these. If an intruder tries to kill me or my family, I would rather we die upholding Jesus’ words than disobey only to suffer death from old age. Any alternative views on this?
part two against pacifism, can a christian be in the military?

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We are living in difficult days. The Lord said, “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” Why? For self protection, of course. They were living in days that required a sword. We need to recognize that fact also. If we do not resist evil today, all kinds of evil will befall us. We could end up in the hospital or have some of our loved ones slain.

McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed., Vol. 4, p. 347). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

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22:36. Jesus’ instructions here reflect the culmination of His mission and the crescendo of antagonism from the leadership in Jerusalem. The increased context of hostility called for supplies that would facilitate self-preservation (a “money bag” or knapsack) and self defense (a sword). Although the supplies would change, they would still lack nothing (v 35).

Valdés, A. S. (2010). The Gospel according to Luke. In R. N. Wilkin (Ed.), The Grace New Testament Commentary (p. 340). Denton, TX: Grace Evangelical Society.

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When the disciples had depended on God to provide for their needs, those needs were met through generous people. However, the situation had changed. Jesus here instructed His disciples to take a money bag, a knapsack, and a sword on their journeys in order to be prepared for the rejection that was to come.
Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1999). Nelson’s new illustrated Bible commentary (Lk 22:35–36). Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers.
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The Galileans generally travelled with swords. Christ wore none himself, but he was not against his disciples’ wearing them.

Henry, M. (1994). Matthew Henry’s commentary on the whole Bible: complete and unabridged in one volume (p. 1903). Peabody: Hendrickson.

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Jesus is saying: “I am on the point of leaving you, and when I am gone, you must use common sense means for provision and protection.” Such practical considerations were not needed before, but were needed now.
b. The disciples had been sent out to do ministry without Jesus before (Luk 10:1-17), but then they were received with goodwill and hospitality. Now they are facing a hostile world without Jesus, and must be prepared.
c. It is enough means enough of this kind of talk (Jesus’ firm way of ending the conversation), not two swords will be enough. How could two swords ever be enough against all those who came to arrest Jesus?
i. Jesus’ disciples must be “just as determined and whole-hearted as a fighting man who gives up everything, even his garment, as long as he only possesses a sword to continue the struggle with.” (Geldenhuys)

-David Guzik is the new Senior Pastor of Calvary Chapel Santa Barbara. His excellent study materials have been edifying the Christian community for the past seven years. Currently he is the director of the Calvary Chapel Bible College in Siegen, Germany. Sources: Guzik, David. "Commentary on Luke 22:36". "David Guzik Commentaries on the Bible". "Luke 22 Commentary - James Burton Coffman Commentaries on the Bible. 1997-2003.

here are more commentators that agree with a literal interpretation of the verse suggesting that the Disciples, sell their coat and buy a sword:


( I could not fit them all in one post)



Buy a sword (ἀγορασατω μαχαιραν [agorasatō machairan]). This is for defence clearly. The reference is to the special mission in Galilee (Luke 9:16=Mark 6:613=Matt. 9:3511:1). They are to expect persecution and bitter hostility (John 15:1821). Jesus does not mean that his disciples are to repel force by force, but that they are to be ready to defend his cause against attack. Changed conditions bring changed needs.


Robertson, A. T. (1933). Word Pictures in the New Testament (Lk 22:36). Nashville, TN: Broadman Press.

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Luke 22:36. ἀλλὰ νῦν, but now, suggesting an emphatic contrast between past and present, or near future. ἀράτω, lift it: if he has a purse let him carry it, it will be needed, either to buy a sword or, more generally, to provide for himself; he is going now not on a peaceful mission in connection with which he may expect friendly reception and hospitality, but on a campaign in an enemys country. ὁ μὴ ἔχων, he who has not; either purse and scrip, or, with reference to what follows, he who hath not already such a thing as a sword let him by all means get one. πωλησάτω τὸ ἱμάτιον, let him sell his upper garment, however indispensable for clothing by day and by night. A sword the one thing needful. This is a realistic speech true to the manner of Jesus and, what is rare in Lk., given without toning down, a genuine logion without doubt.


Nicol, W. Robertson, M.A., L.L.D. "Commentary on Luke 22:36". The Expositor's Greek Testament. "Luke 22 Commentary - The Expositor's Greek Testament". 1897-1910.


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While our Savior was with them on the earth, He miraculously fed, clothed, and protected them when it was necessary. Consequently they could go without these provisions, incident to human life, indiscriminately. But now that He is going away to leave them, they must take heed and give the necessary attention to the temporalities essential to their physical support and protection. The Orientals wear two garments the cheiton, interior, and the himation, exterior. The outer garment they frequently carried while traveling and laid aside when at labor, keeping it for night and storms. Jesus here tells them, if necessary, to sell the himation and buy a sword. I never could understand why He told them to take a sword till I traveled in that country and saw the necessity of carrying weapons. I did not carry any, as I did not know how to use them; but a sanctified preacher in our company carried a revolver, our dragman also being armed with a revolver and a dagger. In some places we were compelled to hire an armed escort to keep the robbers off. Why were you compelled to do it? Our guide refused to go without the armed escort. Going round in Jerusalem, men, as a rule, had no visible weapons; but traveling through the country, all we met were armed with guns, swords, or huge clubs, almost as large as an American rifle, and convenient to kill a man with a single stroke. The guide-books advise all travelers to go armed, but not to use their weapons, their utility being that of intimidation, as robbers abound everywhere, who do not content themselves by simply taking your money, but take everything you possess, leaving you utterly destitute of clothing, baggage, etc. In that day there were no firearms, the sword being the most common weapon of defense; also regarded as a badge of itinerancy. You see, when they pointed out these two swords, He said they were sufficient. The presumption is that the sword was a prudential, peace, and safety provision, for the intimidation of robbers and for personal security in case of emergency, as persons openly avowing the absence of all protecting weapons in their peregrinations would soon fall a prey to the robbers. Along the road from Jerusalem down to Jericho, where the traveler (Luke 10) was attacked by the robbers, the Roman Government had a garrison of armed men to protect the travelers, as the robbers were so troublesome.



Godbey, William. "Commentary on Luke 22:36". "William Godbey's Commentary on the New Testament". ( a Wesleyan evangelist.)

Luke 22 Commentary - William Godbey's Commentary on the New Testament



----------------------------------------


He that hath not, i.e., purse or wallet, let him sell his cloke (outer garment), necessary as that is, and buy a sword, which is now more indispensable than clothing. One who had not a sword, might still have a purse, and thus not be obliged to sell his garment; a point overlooked by the rendering of the E. V. This is not to be taken literally, nor yet allegorically, as though the purse, wallet, and sword had each a spiritual signification; but the whole is a figurative setting forth of the fact that henceforth self-defence would be their chief necessity, in view of the outward perils which would come upon them. This opposes the non-resistant theory of the Quakers, and also the view, that force can be used aggressively in the cause of Christ; self-defence alone is in question.


Schaff, Philip. "Commentary on Luke 22:36". "Schaff's Popular Commentary on the New Testament". "Luke 22 Commentary - Schaff's Popular Commentary on the New Testament". 1879-90..


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he told them that matters were now altered, they were to be violently assaulted by their enemies; were to meet with the strongest temptations, and to be so hotly persecuted bytheir countrymen, that they could no longer expect anysuccour at their hands; for which reason, he ordered them, in their future journeys, to provide money, and clothes, and a sword, for themselves: that is to say, besides relying on the divine Providence as formerly, they were to use prudent precautions in fortifying themselves against the trials which were coming on them; and our Lord tells them they were thus to arm themselves, because he was to be treated as a malefactor, condemned and crucified, agreeably to the predictions of the prophets.


Coke, Thomas. "Commentary on Luke 22:36". Thomas Coke Commentary on the Holy Bible. "Luke 22 Commentary - Thomas Coke Commentary on the Holy Bible". 1801-1803.


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Didnt Jesus mention pacifism in the Beatitudes like Mathew 5?



Matthew 5:39 and that is that personal revenge is taken out of our hands, and that applies to lynch-law. Aggressive or offensive war by nations is also condemned, but not necessarily defensive war or defence against robbery and murder. Professional pacifism may be mere cowardice.

The Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament. Copyright � Broadman Press 1932,33, Renewal 1960. All rights reserved. Used by permission of Broadman Press (Southern Baptist Sunday School Board)


In similar thought, Dallas Seminary former president exclaims:


Although some might deduce from the principles of the kingdom expounded here that the Bible supports pacifism, most interpreters would not draw this conclusion. In dealing with publicans, John the Baptist instructed them not to abuse their power (Lk 3:13-14). Jesus here was not trying to give hard and fast principles that are applicable under all circumstances, but was stating the ideals which govern His kingdom.


John Walvwoord-series on MATTHEW THY KINGDOM COME, Ch 5 on Matthew 5, 1/1/2008

5. The Moral Principles of the Kingdom | Bible.org

 
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timewerx

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2) Christians did not defend themselves in the NT other than verbally. Jesus rebuked Peter for trying it.

The crucifixion is part of God's plan. It must be allowed to happen.

On the other hand, Jesus commanded His disciples to buy swords. ;);)

Is Martyrdom God's Will for every Christian who finds themselves in a deadly situation??:rolleyes:
 
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createdtoworship

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How do you balance living in a violent world with the teachings of Christ? For starters, I believe God is the same God of war as always. But the role of believers is different in the New Covenant. That is, we love our enemies, turn the other cheek when attacked. We do not resist violence but abandon it to the Lord who says vengeance belongs to him.

So I do not serve in the military or become a police officer whose life depends on doing the opposite of these. If an intruder tries to kill me or my family, I would rather we die upholding Jesus’ words than disobey only to suffer death from old age. Any alternative views on this?

this is part three, I highlighted the war part, as the rest may be off topic a bit. But I wanted to include the context of why I said what I said.


While I don't adhere to many aspects of the republican party I do like how they protect religious freedom against the onslaught of the LGBT activists seeking to unite the christian faith with transgender, homosexual imaging and ideology. So it all depends on who gets the majority vote and who will be strong enough to defeat the democratic nomination (who is most likely the biggest advocate against religious freedom). I am open to other conservatives, as I don't necessarily think a wall is the best logical decision. I can't see Jesus building a wall to keep immigrants out. But maybe deterring them legislatively like Ron Paul mentions. Eventually if we serve God as a nation again, all the nations of the world may come and have a home here. In solomons day, all the foreign nations brought voluntary tribute to hear the wisdom of solomon. Simply because he prayed for wisdom over gold. And we can be the same. As long as we don't allow foreign religions to deter us from the God that gave us that prosperity to begin with. In solomons day, he allowed foreign marriages to the daughter of pharoah for example to deter Him from His pure religion. God never said you could multiply wives. But He did it anyway, and this became His downfall. We owe proverbs to the wisdom of solomon in the Bible, and this just goes to show that his wisdom was from God. God exalts a nation and God humbles a nation. I believe we are in the humbling stages. We are one or two elections from destruction. Imagine bernie sanders getting elected, and free college, and free healthcare. That would definitely put our economy out of business. He would remove religious liberties during His presidency and allow faith to be quenched nationwide. I don't disagree with helping those in need, but we have to do it in a sustainable manner. It's okay to have welfare, as long as it's done in a sustainable fashion. You can do good things as a nation, take care of the poor, etc, but reject God. And in doing the later, God will allow your contributions to come to nothing. I don't watch the presidential elections or the rallies, or even the news. I feel they are all baited to enrage and infuriate, and not to relay information. I watch one political news channel and I walk away enraged. So I stopped feeding myself entirely on news like that. I don't want to have my joy robbed by things that take my focus from God. But religious freedom is another issue. I believe it is the one issue that christians can unite over politically speaking. Hopefully God raises a party that is more closely aligned to His will than the republicans. I don't feel God would also want us to support the military in such a fashion. Yes we need one, but do we need all the equipment that is geared primarily for invasions? Like tanks, and armies? Why not take that money, cut it in half. Double or triple the size of the special forces, keep the airforce and navy, reduce the size of marines and army. I know that is not popular. My dad was a marine. So I get it. But the military and the christian principle of forgiving your enemy, is not necessarily the same. I don't think we need to get rid of the military all together, but maybe get rid of those branches that were created to invade and take land from other people. Imagine if instead of having a ten year war, we simply bombed a capital? or permeated the city with ultra high technology special forces, and assassinated all known leaders? Could you save money that way, and reduce a military budget that way? I think so. I really think if we allowed our christian principles to rule over every aspect of our lives, even our politics, that we would not be stuck with just two parties right now. There may in fact be three or four. Being stuck with two parties limits you to ignore christian principles and vote for the one that is closest to your view. Anyway something to pray about. I personally am praying that another candidate that is not necessarily republican or democrat can come to power and provide not only religious freedom, but can promote the views I mention above. Some ideas are classical liberalism and libertarianism. Although both of those above are conservative and for limited government (they are not social liberals, like democrats), but they are for individual liberty including abortion and homosexual marriage rights. Trump himself is for homosexual marriage, and so is ron paul. So I would be looking for someone who didn't favor that. I see the national trend to accept homosexuality as correct. Not just a right, but a right that we all need to accept. Saying it's legal is one thing, but then teaching that legality to kindergartners and preschoolers, and teaching them how to be a drag queen is not right. But that is where we are. And Trump is not stopping it because he is part of the problem. So is ron paul. So I think based on the homosexual issue and abortion issue I am still republican. But the number of republicans that are willing to come out against homosexual marriage is shrinking not growing. So there is a problem in the longevity of the moral stance of that party. I am not saying the party is unsalvageable, but I think there could be a blend of hyper conservativism and maybe a blend of classical liberal or libertarian (on military and immigration). See there is a conflict between limited government and immigration prohibition. See it takes a government to regulate immigration. So there is a contradiction there. So typically classical liberals and independents are not only for immigration (due to being limited government), but are for homosexual marriage and abortion, because they limit the governments right to impose on any human freedom that does not hurt another individual. So in this way I would still be more conservative. I do not agree with immigration simply on an economic basis. Morally speaking I think it is fine to allow people to come from impoverished nations and live among us in prosperity. That is a christian principle. In the Bible foreigners were treated with respect, given food and housing etc. It's just that since we have rejected God as a nation, God has allowed our national sins (homosexuality, abortion, murder, etc) to punish and curse our nation so that we cannot take care of other nations like we should. I think the majority if drugs come over the ports of entry in the united states, I think if we were to stop drugs, we should double or triple the border patrol on the ports of entry. Increase their budget to have top quality Xrays and nuclear detecting equipment. I think policy restricting the rights of immigrants would be more helpful than a border wall. See a border wall can be penetrated in minutes with a drill or sawzall, among the border wall that already exists, there were 4000 penetrations needed to be repaired. and in most instances a simple extension ladder allowed people to cross in less than a minute. Would it prevent some immigration, yes. But not for long. The type of fence we need is a good one, an expensive one. A better one than is proposed. But the problem is that two thirds of the land along the border is not federal property. So we will have to buy out those properties or pay those owners fees every year for a fence. So as you can see a border wall is not really maintainable unless we have a very well built wall roughly two or three times the cost of what is proposed. So I agree with ron paul on this topic. I believe they should take liberties away from immigrants in a way that makes it harder to come here and live. Trump views this wall as a campaign promise. But should we hold him to it? I think money would be better used beefing up ports of entry. Billions of pounds of drugs come through those ports of entry every year. And a wall won't stop it. Wall advocates say that a wall will stop it, but it won't because drugs are hidden in secret panels, in tires and in other spots on cars that are hard to Xray and identify. But beefing up the patrol dogs at borders, maybe doubling or tripling them, would be a start. Drugs are usually double or triple sealed and yet dogs can still smell it. Eventually if you beef up the border entry points, you can extend lanes and make entry even faster. So anyway I hope I helped some of the confusion of religion and politics and by all means read the attached religious freedom pamphlets. See what politicians are against homosexual agenda's and are for religious freedoms. Independents, classical liberals and libertarians are all for both the homosexual and the christian as they are for all liberty. But unfortunately christians don't have as good of lobbyists. So ultimately in that battle christians will lose. Republicans so far have the best track record for being true conservatives, while unfortunately having a proud stance over immigrants, and a weird stance on military. Most people believe that protection of our country is needed, however our military is way too big, we are not budgeting in merely national protection but policing other countries with ten year long wars or twenty year long wars. I don't see Jesus in that. I can see protecting our nation, and having a competitive airforce and navy. You can even take the money from the invasion assets and move them into the airforce and navy, and develop more stealth technology. Less tanks and more stealth navy destroyers, less infantry men and more pilots and navy seals. More strategic technology in the drone arena. I am sure there are better and more accurate drones out there, take some of our tanks away and develop more drones. I know it's hard to admit, but obama had a fairly good policy when he developed a bomb that could be dropped on a car, and not even blow up the car, but still kill the target. Less collateral damage. I believe it was only used a few times in the last decade, but I like the idea. I think Jesus likes the idea of less innocent victims in war. So anyway, I hope that Jesus rules all of your life, including your political choices going into 2020. I know that I am asking alot. I am asking to think out of the box. To not be satisfied with traditional conservativism. To be more global, to think about other countries as our partners and friends. I don't like how republicans talk down to immigrants as all criminals and drugees. Poverty is the reason why their are more criminals among immigrants. It's not that they are hispanic that they are criminals. But you don't see that distinction actively being spoken of by Trump. I don't like that either. I really like Ted Cruz and hope he runs for president again. But I fear that we have trump mania, and many are sold on only trump. But we need to keep all options open. The only reason why I didn't vote for cruz is that trump beat him out. But I see Ted Cruz in all of these court cases, drilling people on shady crimes. I like that. He has guts. Recently he was drilling google executives over censoring conservatives.
 

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createdtoworship

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Way too many.

Jesus also said, live by the sword, die by the sword.

Matthew 26:52
52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Basically, people with your views can only exist as free riders in society. The more people who act as you do, the chaotic and prone to destruction it will become.

Also, you view that police and military are contrary to a life of Christian faith is not based on revelation, but upon questionable logic.

Is it right for you to force your family to suffer for your nonstandard, nonbiblical beliefs?

Loving your enemies sometimes mean making a whip out of chords and violently driving them away from the temple! ;) ;) ;)

giphy.gif

The crucifixion is part of God's plan. It must be allowed to happen.

On the other hand, Jesus commanded His disciples to buy swords. ;);)

Is Martyrdom God's Will for every Christian who finds themselves in a deadly situation??:rolleyes:

I have studied this extensively in the past, and I feel it's important that you all read this post, and the following two as they are similiar:

Christians, War, and Violence
 
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Yytz6

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Luke 22:36

"He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

Jesus rebuked Peter for trying it.
Wasn't this because he (Jesus) was to die at the Cross. So he rebuked not because of the action but because of the timing.
 
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timewerx

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Jesus denied to Christians such a basic right has never been explained. "Resist not evil ... go the second mile ... turn the other cheek... give thy cloak also, etc." are not applicable to situations in which one's life is threatened, or endangered.

Actually, "resisting the devil" if reviewing the passages in Greek or Strong's Concordance...

Devil could also mean an evil person. And resist may involve violence or force - ie, using violence / force to drive away an evil person.

Jesus also used violence to drive away the merchants from the temple if you review the passages in Strong's Concordance.

"Resist the devil and he will flee from you" may not always mean dealing with spirits but also actual persons.
 
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Yytz6

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While I don't adhere to many aspects of the republican party I do like how they protect religious freedom against the onslaught of the LGBT activists seeking to unite the christian faith with transgender, homosexual imaging and ideology.
You mean Christianity and its "freedom"?
 
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Luke 22:36

"He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

Wasn't this because he (Jesus) was to die at the Cross. So he rebuked not because of the action but because of the timing.

True, context is everything.
 
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