Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

[jgr]

verse 8, ..In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are Gods children, but it is the children of the PROMISE who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. .

Whom does Scripture identify as the children of the PROMISE?

 

[pasifika]

Whom does Scripture identify as the children of the PROMISE?

Hello, those who are born by the will of God (John 1:12-13) or born as the result of a divine promise (Galatians 4:23)...it is God who made the promise to Abraham that he will be the Father of many nations..Genesis 17:5..

So it is God who will fulfill All His promises...

 

[BABerean2]

On the contrary, you will never get it right if you don't quit focusing on human teaching, yield your understanding to God and allow the Holy Spirit show you scriptures for what it truly is.

Maybe you do not realize that you need to take your own advice.
Maybe you do not know that it is you who is promoting human teaching.

It is those who are a part of the New Covenant Church who have the Holy Spirit inside of them as the master teacher, which is revealed by the scripture below.


Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

You are promoting a doctrine brought to America by John Nelson Darby, about the time of the Civil War. It was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible. Since that time it has spread like a virus through the modern evangelical Church. The proof is found below.

Genesis of Dispensational Theology

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf

.

 

[keras]

verse 8, ..In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are Gods children, but it is the children of the PROMISE who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. .

But the amazing thing about this, is that the majority of the people who have accepted Christianity, are in fact actual descendants of Jacob; from the 10 Northern tribes.
So God will literally fulfil His promise to the Patriarchs, as well as Spiritually.

Soon after the next prophesied event; the Sixth Seal Day of the Lord's fiery wrath has cleared and cleansed all of the holy Land area, Zephaniah 1:14-18, 2:4-6, 3:8, we Christians; now scattered among every race, nation and language, will gather, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, and live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land. John sees us there in Revelation 7:9 and we are there when Gog attacks us, Ezekiel 38:8-13. Also later, when the Anti-Christ does conquer us; Daniel 7:23, Revelation 13:7, but the faithful Christians will be taken to a place of safety; Daniel 11:32-45, Revelation 12:14
Then Jesus will Return and we will all be gathered to Him by His angels. Matthew 24:30-31

 

[parousia70]

Hello, promise land will be a Holy land after the resurrection because the Holy One of Israel will dwell there...HOLY place called Zion...In the Holy City- heavenly Jerusalem...

Psalms 132:13..."For the Lord has chosen Zion, he has desired it for his dwelling, saying "This is my resting place for ever and ever, here I will sit enthroned, for I have desired it..

Psalms 87:1-2, He has founded his city on the Holy mountain.
The Lord loves the gates of Zion more than all other dwellings of Jacob..

(2)Romans 9:6-8..."It is not as though God's word had failed. For not All who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Nor because they are his descendants are they All Abraham's children. On the contrary, " It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned..

verse 8, ..In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are Gods children, but it is the children of the PROMISE who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. .

So, I don’t think that answers my question. I’ll ask it again:

Wil there or will there not be a NEW earth?

You seem to be saying NO.

 

[Messenger 3k]

Maybe you do not realize that you need to take your own advice.
Maybe you do not know that it is you who is promoting human teaching.

It is those who are a part of the New Covenant Church who have the Holy Spirit inside of them as the master teacher, which is revealed by the scripture below.


Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

You are promoting a doctrine brought to America by John Nelson Darby, about the time of the Civil War. It was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible. Since that time it has spread like a virus through the modern evangelical Church. The proof is found below.

Genesis of Dispensational Theology

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_23.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/rapture_22.pdf

.

Listen, I'm not promoting the teaching of anybody or any faction besides Christ. I don't even know the person whose doctrine you say I'm promoting; John Nelson or whatever his name; I don't mean to sound rude but I also don't care to look him up.

All through our conversations back and forth, I never once referred you to an article or a YouTube video. You raised issues concerning what you perceived to be errors in my biblical view and by the grace and wisdom of God, I tackled every one of them scripturally; aligning scriptures with scriptures and precepts with precepts.

You, like every others who share your erroneous views, all lacked concrete response to the points I raised. You simply bundle a bunch of scriptures together and hope they mean what you want. Hence you've responded to my previous post in the same manner by hauling a bunch scriptures on me which had nothing to do with the points I raised, by posting YouTube videos, articles and all the pdf files in the world.

Is it not clear already who is promoting a certain doctrine?

I never meant to divert this thread from its original course. But on some days I can simply observe and bear the scriptural errors and falsities some of you peddle on here and some days I cannot. This is just one of such days.

But I'm done making my point so carry on.

 

[jgr]

Hello, those who are born by the will of God (John 1:12-13) or born as the result of a divine promise (Galatians 4:23)...it is God who made the promise to Abraham that he will be the Father of many nations..Genesis 17:5..

So it is God who will fulfill All His promises...

What about Galatians 4:28:

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Paul is addressing the Galatian Church, and by extension the entire NT Church up to and including today.

The faithful and obedient in Christ.

Romans 9:8 and Galatians 4:28 are the only places where the expression "children of (the) promise" appears.

It is a further confirmation of Galatians 3:26-29.

 

[BABerean2]

Listen, I'm not promoting the teaching of anybody or any faction besides Christ. I don't even know the person whose doctrine you say I'm promoting; John Nelson or whatever his name; I don't mean to sound rude but I also don't care to look him up.

All through our conversations back and forth, I never once referred you to an article or a YouTube video. You raised issues concerning what you perceived to be errors in my biblical view and by the grace and wisdom of God, I tackled every one of them scripturally; aligning scriptures with scriptures and precepts with precepts.

You, like every others who share your erroneous views, all lacked concrete response to the points I raised. You simply bundle a bunch of scriptures together and hope they mean what you want. Hence you've responded to my previous post in the same manner by hauling a bunch scriptures on me which had nothing to do with the points I raised, by posting YouTube videos, articles and all the pdf files in the world.

Is it not clear already who is promoting a certain doctrine?

I never meant to divert this thread from its original course. But on some days I can simply observe and bear the scriptural errors and falsities some of you peddle on here and some days I cannot. This is just one of such days.

But I'm done making my point so carry on.

If you think you found a 7 year tribulation period in the Bible all by yourself, you have no idea how much you are repeating what others have said.

So far, you have ignored Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:22-24.
When are you going to deal with the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34?

.

 

[keras]

What about Galatians 4:28:

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Paul is addressing the Galatian Church, and by extension the entire NT Church up to and including today.

The faithful and obedient in Christ.

Romans 9:8 and Galatians 4:28 are the only places where the expression "children of (the) promise" appears.

It is a further confirmation of Galatians 3:26-29.

No one is disputing your correct statement above.
But what you wrongly argue against, is the fact of the Christian nations being actual descendants of Jacob.
Note; that Abraham was promised to be the father of many nations. NOT all nations. This truth is obvious to any anthropologist who studies the origins of people groups.
Of course there is some mixing, but as a general rule, the Western peoples are the ones who have embraced Christianity.
Jesus' mission the save the lost tribes of Israel WAS successful!

 

[jgr]

No one is disputing your correct statement above.
But what you wrongly argue against, is the fact of the Christian nations being actual descendants of Jacob.
Note; that Abraham was promised to be the father of many nations. NOT all nations. This truth is obvious to any anthropologist who studies the origins of people groups.
Of course there is some mixing, but as a general rule, the Western peoples are the ones who have embraced Christianity.
Jesus' mission the save the lost tribes of Israel WAS successful!

All nations are descendants of Jacob.

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

 

[keras]

All nations are descendants of Jacob.

God disputes this: Amos 9:9, Isaiah 49:16-18
The probability that everyone has a touch of Abrahams genes, as the Arabs have, does not preclude the Biblical fact that God does have a set apart people whom He chose and then punished with exile, for a decreed time, Ezekiel 4:4-5 He sent Jesus to save them and we Christians are the result. Soon we will go to live in our heritage, the fulfilment of the great story of how God prepared for Himself, a people who love Him and obey His Commandments.
Realize God's amazing Plan and cease your insistence that 'everyone' is a child of the Patriarchs.

 

[pasifika]

So, I don’t think that answers my question. I’ll ask it again:

Wil there or will there not be a NEW earth?

You seem to be saying NO.

there will be a new earth in the sense that is not the same as the current one...after is been cleansed and destroy by the fire at the second coming of Christ...

2Peter 3:6-7...By these waters also the world of that time was deluge and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and the destruction of the ungodly....

Notice: during the flood, Noah and his family didn't go out of that world but was still in the world while everything has been destroyed around them...so I think the same as the second coming with the fire destroyed this earth and made it new during the process..

 

[pasifika]

What about Galatians 4:28:

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Paul is addressing the Galatian Church, and by extension the entire NT Church up to and including today.

The faithful and obedient in Christ.

Romans 9:8 and Galatians 4:28 are the only places where the expression "children of (the) promise" appears.

It is a further confirmation of Galatians 3:26-29.

What about Galatians 4:28????
I already mentioned in post #182...children of the promise are those who are born according to the will of God, is doesn't matter whether is Jews, Gentiles, Israel (physical ),free etc...It God's will and his doing....

Remember is not Abraham who made those promises but God...meaning God will fulfill All that He has promised because He is God and He can...

So the same way God chose Isaac, Jacob etc the same way He will choose the gentiles people to be Abraham's children...so Galatians 4:28, give the gentiles the hope of inherited the promise God made to Abraham...

 

[jgr]

The probability that everyone has a touch of Abrahams genes, as the Arabs have, does not preclude the Biblical fact that God does have a set apart people whom He chose

Of course. So what is the basis of His choice? What are the identifying and distinguishing characteristics of those whom He chooses? How do they survive the sifting process?

Spiritual DNA.

Faith and obedience.

Nothing else.

 

[keras]

Of course. So what is the basis of His choice? What are the identifying and distinguishing characteristics of those whom He chooses? How do they survive the sifting process?

Spiritual DNA.

Faith and obedience.

Nothing else.

You ignore two main facts; That the House of Israel was sent into exile for a decreed time and that period is very close to, or now; just completed. It was for 390 X 7 = 2730 years. From circa 722 -715 BC.
The other is that the people who will go to live all of the holy Land, every faithful Christian, are people who will have been Redeemed, restored and forgiven, a people that God foreknew and He originally chose. He has not rejected them forever.

It should be evident to all, that the 144,000 cannot be only Jews; they will comprise only 2/12ths of them. The remaining 10/12ths will be people who have forgotten their ancestry, but God knows and will assign them all into their own tribe.
Isaiah 27:12-13....you Israelites will be gathered one by one. The Great Trumpet will sound and those who were lost in Assyria [the ten Northern tribes] and those dispersed in Egypt [the Jews] will come to worship the Lord in Jerusalem. Jeremiah 50:4-5

 

[jgr]

You ignore two main facts; That the House of Israel was sent into exile for a decreed time and that period is very close to, or now; just completed. It was for 390 X 7 = 2730 years. From circa 722 -715 BC.
The other is that the people who will go to live all of the holy Land, every faithful Christian, are people who will have been Redeemed, restored and forgiven, a people that God foreknew and He originally chose. He has not rejected them forever.

It should be evident to all, that the 144,000 cannot be only Jews; they will comprise only 2/12ths of them. The remaining 10/12ths will be people who have forgotten their ancestry, but God knows and will assign them all into their own tribe.
Isaiah 27:12-13....you Israelites will be gathered one by one. The Great Trumpet will sound and those who were lost in Assyria [the ten Northern tribes] and those dispersed in Egypt [the Jews] will come to worship the Lord in Jerusalem. Jeremiah 50:4-5

Are you declaring that God will ignore disobedience and unfaithfulness for an unidentifiable group who have what you consider to be the right physical DNA?

 

[keras]

Are you declaring that God will ignore disobedience and unfaithfulness for an unidentifiable group who have what you consider to be the right physical DNA?

Not at all. Typically you jump to a wrong conclusion.

Only those faithful Christian Israelites will enter the holy Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38, Romans 9:24-26, + They will be joined by many Christian non Israelites, as people have joined them in the past. Isaiah 56:1-8

 

[jgr]

Not at all. Typically you jump to a wrong conclusion.

Only those faithful Christian Israelites will enter the holy Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38, Romans 9:24-26, + They will be joined by many Christian non Israelites, as people have joined them in the past. Isaiah 56:1-8

So if we both agree that faith and obedience are God's sole and exclusive criteria and conditions of acceptability, then what are we arguing about?

 

[Douggg]

the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

Are you saying everyone born into this world is a gentile ?

All Israel is not Israel
All Israel shall be saved.

Who is "All Israel" talking about?

 

[BABerean2]

Are you saying everyone born into this world is a gentile ?

All Israel is not Israel
All Israel shall be saved.

Who is "All Israel" talking about?

Are you saying that everyone alive on the planet today who is distantly related to Jacob is an Israelite?

Do you understand that the Northern tribes were carried into captivity hundreds of years before Christ, and their DNA has been scattered around the world?

.