Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

[CharismaticLady]

If one says that they have no sin, points out that someone else is willfully sinning or teaches that the Law has a say over the residence of the Holy Spirit, that dwells within a Sainted Sinner... they are indeed willfully sinning, trampling the blood... and in danger of aligning with all the not so pleasant scripture reserved for such shenanigans.

As long as you aren’t doing any of those things... Sure.

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling is Paul’s way of reminding us about our planks, lest we fall to pick the speck from a brothers eye.

That’s my opinion on what Paul says... anyhow.

Does the Holy Spirit in you cause you to sin? If so, then it is a different spirit.

6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him... 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Grip, I expect that someday soon you will see the absurdity of your beliefs which state the opposite of Scripture, and ask for the power of the actual Holy Spirit.

 

[Phil W]

Jesus set us free from the Charges of the Law.

Can you define what "the charges of the law" is?

The Law has only been fulfilled by Jesus.

Not according to these two scriptures...
Romans 8:4
"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
Romans 13:8
"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Not one moment in our flesh is righteous by the Law.

I'm sure glad my "flesh" has been killed and buried with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
I love this scripture too...
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:9)

You quoted Portions of Paul in Romans 8 that you eluded supported sinless doctrine.

I tried to pick out a single verse from Rom 8, but the entire chapter points to the end of walking in the flesh and a new life walked in the Spirit.

I quoted Romans 8:2 to proof we are free from condemnation of the Law, not sinlessly perfect in our flesh.

You can see the end of condemnation, but not the end of that we would be condemned for?
Satisfying the now dead flesh?
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal 5:24)

God’s Flesh is Sinlessly Perfect. Our flesh is not.

If you are in Christ, it isn't YOUR flesh anymore.
It is written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)

 

[Phil W]

Right, because our unknown trespasses against one another, our lack of perfections are automatically cleansed by our Advocate.

As I said earlier, you have inserted sin into Christ.
All sins require temptation, enticement, lust, and conception.
How can all that happen unknowingly?
Especially since..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal 5:24)
No lust, no sin.

Right, our imperfections are automatically cleansed showing no sin in God.
Your apathy to dig deeper is not in the light. Those who think they know it all, are far from perfect. But they are cleansed and perfected once you go back into the light.

Seems to me that all your study has led to the pollution of the body of Christ.
He is perfect.
We have been baptized into Him.
If we are imperfect, we are not in Him.

 

[Phil W]

And what are the charges of the Law? Sin! Jesus set us free from SIN! John 8:34-36, and in so doing, automatically sets us free from the law of sin and death. How? By giving us His Spirit who DOES NOT SIN. The Spirit of life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death.

Why then does He need to continually cleanse us?

 

[CharismaticLady]

As I said earlier, you have inserted sin into Christ.
All sins require temptation, enticement, lust, and conception.
How can all that happen unknowingly?
Especially since..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal 5:24)
No lust, no sin.


Seems to me that all your study has led to the pollution of the body of Christ.
He is perfect.
We have been baptized into Him.
If we are imperfect, we are not in Him.

The Old Testament, our schoolmaster, showed how God viewed sin, and that there were two categories, same as us. You only can see one. You are still blind to the other.

 

[Phil W]

I'd call trampling down the Cross of Jesus Christ, denying the Gospel, and shipwrecking your faith a bad thing, yes.

If this is what you are referring to..."Jesus said the truth would make us free, and two verses later said from what...servitude to sin. (John 8:32-34)"...how does that manifest shipwrecking my faith?
It seems more like manifesting it.
Where is the faith of those who continue to offend God, when He has made a way to be sinless?

 

[Phil W]

The Old Testament, our schoolmaster, showed how God viewed sin, and that there were two categories, same as us. You only can see one. You are still blind to the other.

I'm not under the law anymore.
Are you?
Where does Jesus talk of unintentional sin?

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm not under the law anymore.
Are you?

Yes, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

Where does Jesus talk of unintentional sin?

Read the Lord's Prayer, it mentions them there, among other places in the New and Old Testaments. You don't want me to teach you, so study it for yourself. That's all the hint I'll give you.

 

[Grip Docility]

Can you define what "the charges of the law" is?


Not according to these two scriptures...
Romans 8:4
"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
Romans 13:8
"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."


I'm sure glad my "flesh" has been killed and buried with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
I love this scripture too...
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:9)


I tried to pick out a single verse from Rom 8, but the entire chapter points to the end of walking in the flesh and a new life walked in the Spirit.


You can see the end of condemnation, but not the end of that we would be condemned for?
Satisfying the now dead flesh?
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal 5:24)


If you are in Christ, it isn't YOUR flesh anymore.
It is written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)

This seems to be a complex usage of semantics... but the point remains it’s about Jesus and what Jesus has accomplished... not us.

I don’t use Christ’s robe of righteousness to cloak my failures before mankind.

I am saved by Jesus. The filthy flesh is dead... but I continue to confess my sins one to another... because sinless doctrine is the Petrie Dish Of Pride.

My boasting is about and in Jesus, not myself.

I’m not saying that I am seeing others boast in self, but to exalt my position before men, when Philippians 2 states I should count myself a servant to all men... I see no profit in semantically claiming to be Sinless, when the truth is I am saved from Satan’s use of the Law of Sin and Death by Jesus Christ who did the following... (Hebrews 2:14)

It is all about Jesus and not about me. It is all because of Jesus, that I am free! In witness, I will always approach others as less than them, because that’s what my Idol did!

He who knew no sin took on the lowest servant job of all to prove a point. He washed our feet!

All blessings in Jesus Christ to you.

 

[CharismaticLady]

This seems to be a complex usage of semantics... but the point remains it’s about Jesus and what Jesus has accomplished... not us.

I don’t use Christ’s robe of righteousness to cloak my failures before mankind.

I am saved by Jesus. The filthy flesh is dead... but I continue to confess my sins one to another... because sinless doctrine is the Petrie Dish Of Pride.

My boasting is about and in Jesus, not myself.

I’m not saying that I am seeing others boast in self, but to exalt my position before men, when Philippians 2 states I should count myself a servant to all men... I see no profit in semantically claiming to be Sinless, when the truth is I am saved from Satan’s use of the Law of Sin and Death by Jesus Christ who did the following... (Hebrews 2:14)

It is all about Jesus and not about me. It is all because of Jesus, that I am free! In witness, I will always approach others as less than them, because that’s what my Idol did!

He who knew no sin took on the lowest servant job of all to prove a point. He washed our feet!

All blessings in Jesus Christ to you.

When you say you confess your sins one to another, do you confess adultery, or pornography, or stealing, or murder? And after you confess these sins, do you repeat them? Has Jesus given you any power at all to not do these sins? Do you ever rejoice in the victory Jesus has given you. Can you say, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Is that boasting in self, or rejoicing in Jesus? Do you bear false witness against those who do rejoice in the power of the Holy Spirit to be free from sin, that spread the good news? Do you repeat that sin against them over and over?

 

[Wordkeeper]

Are not all the "benefits" of God given by His graceful mercy?
I can't compartmentalize grace to one or two functions, but describe it as the attitude of God...whether to us or for us, it is a manifestation of His mercy.

I buy lunch for the home-less guy, by the grace of God.
I work at a food-bank, by the grace of God.
I have escaped car wrecks, by the grace of God.
Isn't all of God's mercy to/for us done gracefully?

That is a non Biblical teaching about grace. Scripture uses grace to express God's leniency even to situations where the Law has jurisdiction, based on acknowledging (you'd be surprised how good people are at not acknowledging that their sin is a sin!) , agreeing that the sin really was a sin (agree = con fess = acknowledge old French) :

Psalms 32
1Blessed is the one
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
2Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord does not count against them
and in whose spirit is no deceit.
3When I kept silent,
my bones wasted away
through my groaning all day long.
4For day and night
your hand was heavy on me;
my strength was sapped
as in the heat of summer. b
5Then I acknowledged my sin to you
and did not cover up my iniquity.
I said, “I will confess
my transgressions to the Lord.”
And you forgave
the guilt of my sin.

 

[Grip Docility]

When you say you confess your sins one to another, do you confess adultery, or pornography, or stealing, or murder? And after you confess these sins, do you repeat them? Has Jesus given you any power at all to not do these sins? Do you ever rejoice in the victory Jesus has given you. Can you say, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Is that boasting in self, or rejoicing in Jesus? Do you bear false witness against those who do rejoice in the power of the Holy Spirit to be free from sin, that spread the good news? Do you repeat that sin against them over and over?

Is wretched, sinful me getting in the way of perfect sinless people?

Is my honesty upsetting the balance of people who claim elite status, while condescending upon others?

Adultery.... “If any man looks at a woman with lust”.... Check

Pornography ... that’s kin to adultery and Jesus said if it happens in mind or heart, it’s the full blown sin.... so.... check

Stealing...... when I work hard and earn money... in this satanic world... someone is not getting paid... I’m taking someone’s money by filling that position.... so.... check

Murder.... hate.... check

Victory in Jesus.... Check

Philippians 4:13... I Don’t own a Mercedes yet... ??? But .... check

Boasting in self? As in pride? Check

Rejoicing in God? ALWAYS!!!!

The power of the Holy Spirit to be free from sin? I admit that God can do as God sees fit to do with me, in His time and not man’s. Does the Holy Spirit Of Christ have the power to make a man sinlessly Perfect? YES

What if iniquity were to rise in a man or angel for boasting in their sinless perfection, Carnal beauty and splendor? Isaiah 14:14 ; Ezekiel 28:15-17

What did the Holy Spirit Of Christ tell Paul? 2 Corinthians 12:9

Can people confess their sins among brethren that would condemn them and mock them for failing by saying they are not saved as saved means Sinlessly Perfect? NO

Do I bear false witness against people of Matthew 23, which the very Son bore witness against? Jude 1:9 ; NO

Is the Gospel about God Saving the sinlessly perfect? Matthew 9:13

Do I repeatedly warn people through quotation of 1 John 1:8-10, Romans 2:1-2, Isaiah 14:14, Ezekiel 28:15-17 and James 2:8-10, Ephesians 2:6-12, Hebrews 4 and Romans 4:1-6 that it is unwise to Exalt self, disguised as exaltation Of Christ? YES

Am I a sinner declared Sinless by the Sinless that became cursed by taking on all Sin, though He has never sinned, will never Sin? Yes

Do I desire to beat my fellow servants despite the enormous life debt of sin that He has forgiven? NO

Do I know my PLANK that I don’t dare reach to remove my brothers speck? Yes!!!

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.

 

[Grip Docility]

Yes, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.



Read the Lord's Prayer, it mentions them there, among other places in the New and Old Testaments. You don't want me to teach you, so study it for yourself. That's all the hint I'll give you.

Among the discussion of two Sinlessly Perfect people, that reject 1 John 1:8-10 ... which one is more perfect?

Mystery... usually the one speaking.

 

[ilovejcsog]

These people in this thread who are declaring you must be completely sinless to enter into salvation (which only Christ is) aren't speaking to people who committed a thousand murders though..

Instead, they are speaking to people who may have had a stray lustful thought, or told a co-worker their dress was pretty (when they didnt believe it to be true)

they are speaking to the new Christian or the teenager who sometimes struggles with sin, and declares to them they don't (and cant) belong to Christ...

that's a dangerous road, considering what the Bible says of those who who put stumbling blocks in front of believers.

Romans 3:23-26 King James Version (KJV)
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

[Saint Steven]

People who willfully (practice) sin are not Christians. If it is willfully or practiced they are not repentant.

Did you sin today?
What about yesterday? And the day before that? Every day last week?
It seems that you have had enough "practice" to not be a Christian.

We don't cease to be sheep by going astray. And the Good Shepherd still cares about us.

Luke 15:4-7
“Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

 

[Saint Steven]

I see the question as having a contradiction, like saying is a person on a diet who over eats still on a diet.

More like asking if a person on a diet is still a person. - lol

 

[ilovejcsog]

Did you sin today?
What about yesterday? And the day before that? Every day last week?
It seems that you have had enough "practice" to not be a Christian.

We don't cease to be sheep by going astray. And the Good Shepherd still cares about us.

Luke 15:4-7
“Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

i am sure i sin daily in some way but i do not practice sin. i do not purposely sin. If I find I did sin I am repentant.

 

[Saint Steven]

i am sure i sin daily in some way but i do not practice sin. i do not purposely sin. If I find I did sin I am repentant.

So you are sinning accidentally? (not on purpose, or willingly)

Can you define "repentant"?

How can you claim to not practice sin if you are sinning every day in some way?

 

[ilovejcsog]

Sinning everyday is not the same sin everyday. If you do the same sin over and over again you are not repentant, you are practicing sin.
Repentant to me is asking forgiveness and meaning it and doing your best not to do it again. I think people can sin in some instance and not even know it and so daily I ask forgiveness for sins I might have committed. Are you challenging me to a duel of words, if so you will win
Most here would be a much greater challenge for you.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If this is what you are referring to..."Jesus said the truth would make us free, and two verses later said from what...servitude to sin. (John 8:32-34)"...how does that manifest shipwrecking my faith?
It seems more like manifesting it.
Where is the faith of those who continue to offend God, when He has made a way to be sinless?

Let's be clear about something, here is what I said,

"When you decide that you are no longer a sinner who needs the mercy, forgiveness, and grace of God; that you are no longer a sinner who needs the cross of Jesus Christ; that you are no longer a sinner who needs to cry out to Jesus, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner!" and to turn again, turn again, turn again to repentance, and daily, hourly, regularly drown your old man in repentance and contrition."

Your response to that was,

"I hope you aren't saying that is a bad thing."


-CryptoLutheran