Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

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parousia70

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Abram was also well aware of the global flood that destroyed all the wicked & people in the world at that time & God's promise & covenant with Noah then, to not destroy the world with water again.

The rainbow was THE SIGN of the Noahic Covenant. It was not the covenant but the visible outward SIGN that God would KEEP HIS PROMISE never to destroy the world by a global flood again. Again this is a matter of faith in the trustworthy of God to keep His promise.

Wasn't that supposed to be a COMFORTING promise?

Are we Human beings supposed to find Comfort in the fact that God would never again destroy the world "with a flood", and instead he'll do it with an unquenchable Fire?

"Hey, Noah...Let me send your Dove back with a nice olive branch, and oh, by the way, here's a lovely, beautiful Rainbow to remind you that I Promise to SCORCH the earth into pile of smoke and ashes next time I wipe everyone out...since, you know, The Flood was a one time deal."

... Really?

I don't know about you but I'd much rather Drown than Burn.
Drowning is far a more 'comfortable" way to Die than being scorched, it's supposedly even peaceful & Calming... we breathe liquid for the first 9 months of our lives, & our Body and mind quickly revert to that Calming place we felt in the womb as we drown.

I believe the promise to never again destroy the world was not simply a promise to just use a different, more heinous method of destruction "next time", rather I maintain it was indeed a promise of COMFORT, truly, to "NEVER AGAIN Curse the ground for Man's Sake" - which rules out a future global Fire from God... (IF we have faith that God is a trustworthy Promise KEEPER that is)
 
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Mathetes66

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I needed to come back to correct your error or misconception of what I was saying in the CONTEXT OF Gal 3:16 which you isolated ONCE AGAIN.

I already explained this in my posts but evidently you didn't read all of it so you plainly missed it. The context says both a 'plural promises' in Gal 3:16 referring to the ABRAHAMIC COVENANT having many promises. I don't disagree with you there. But the CONTEXT & argument of the whole chapter focuses on just one of the promises (singular) that Paul was pointing out. I already said all that.

You miss verse after verse following vs 16 that is consistently 'promise' in the SINGULAR & that is the promise Christ fulfilled SPECIFICALLY in Galatians ch 3 was referring to! You keep isolating verses in the chapter without mentioning ANY of the singular ones!

I will just have to show this for everyone else reading because you appear to deliberately ignore them, even after I have posted twice on explaining this.

Gal 3:13- Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14He redeemed us in order that THE BLESSING PROMISED (SINGULAR) to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive THE PROMISE (SINGULAR) of the Spirit.

15Brothers, let me put this in human terms. Even a human covenant, once it is ratified, cannot be canceled or amended. THE PROMISES (PLURAL USED ONLY 2X IN THE WHOLE CHAPTER) were spoken to Abraham & to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,”g meaning One, who is Christ.

17What I mean is this: The law that came 430 years later does not revoke the covenant previously established by God, so as to cancel THE PROMISE (SINGULAR). 18For if THE INHERITANCE depends on the law, then it no longer depends on A PROMISE (SINGULAR); but God freely granted it {the inheritance} to Abraham through A PROMISE (SINGULAR).

19Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom THE PROMISE (SINGULAR) referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator is unnecessary, however, if there is only one party; but God is one.

21Is the law, then, opposed to THE PROMISES OF GOD? (only other time in the plural & refers back to all the promises God gave in the Abrahamic covenant) Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. 22But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ THE PROMISE (ONCE AGAIN SINGULAR) might be given to those who believe.

23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED & HEIRS--ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE (once again singular).

The last verse shows Paul's conclusion to the argument he is making. Christ as the singular seed of Abraham fulfills the specific singular promise of INHERITANCE--God granted the promise of INHERITANCE, BEING HEIRS by faith in Christ to the Gentiles as well who have faith.

We Gentiles, who put our faith in Christ, just as our Hebrew father Abraham did, now become the offspring of Abraham, fulfilling the promise of descendants as numerous as the stars of heaven.

We fulfill that singular promise of inheritance by faith in Christ. The singular promise given to Christ was to reconcile Gentiles, the nations, to become the offspring of Abraham, as numerous as the stars. So seed not only refers to Christ in the singular to fulfill this singular promise of inheritance, but it refers to seed of Abraham as plural ALSO, in all those Gentiles of all the nations who have faith in Christ being the offspring or seed of Abraham, as numerous as the stars of heaven.

This is HOW Paul starts his argument:

Gal 3:7ff Understand, then, that those who have faith ARE THE SONS OF ABRAHAM (PLURAL). 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the GENTILES (PLURAL) by faith & foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All NATIONS (PLURAL) will be blessed through you.” 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

One must follow his argument, showing the seed or offspring is both plural & singular. Singular in Christ who made it possible for many offspring or sons of God of the Gentiles to also be included as the numerous offspring or seed of Abraham, just like the BELIEVING HEBREW ABRAHAM.

Romans 4 goes into further detail on the many seed or sons or offspring of BELIEVING HEBREW ABRAHAM including both the Gentiles (the uncircumcision) and the Israelites (circumcision). But here Paul is writing to Gentiles in the church at Galatia & referring to how they are ALSO INCLUDED as the seed (referring to plural children) or sons or offspring of believing Abraham because they also believe by faith in Christ, just as their father Abraham did.

"The Abrahamic Covenant was promises God made to Abraham that God would fulfill to Abraham via His Seed, Jesus."

Right, how is this not what I have been arguing for?

It is not in Galatians chapter 3, as I have shown now three times.

Christ is able to fulfill all the promises in the Abrahamic covenant because of His sinless life, death on the cross, burial & resurrection out from among the dead.

The singular promise of the blessing to the believers in the nation of Israel and the believers in the nations is none other than the singular promise of the Holy Spirit. Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost & the church has never been the same since. That promised Holy Spirit IS one of the promises given in the Abrahamic covenant to Abraham.

The singular promise of the land is also completely fulfilled eventually in Christ, as I have repeatedly shown in various posts & Scriptures all through the Bible, from prophets, apostles & Christ Himself.

The singular promise of one peculiar nation of his offspring, the nation of Israel is also promised & without it we would have no Jewish Messiah, the Son of Man, born of a virgin, born under the Law, as a member of the nation of Israel. Salvation comes from the Jews! That is how God purposed salvation would occur.

I can go much further, but I will stop here.

The singular promise of inheritance

You can believe whatever you want, but please don't ISOLATE what I have in detail shown now three times in posts or isolate 1 or 2 verses & say I am not saying it correctly.
 
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Mathetes66

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"Drowning is far a more 'comfortable" way to Die than being scorched, it's supposedly even peaceful & Calming."

I have never seen personally or media wise of real people drowning CALMLY & PEACEFULLY. That is why people trying to help a drowning person frantically trying to stay alive pull down the helper & both drown. We AFTER we get out of the womb do NOT breathe water but air. It is now UNNATURAL.

"I believe the promise to never again destroy the world was not simply a promise to just use a different, more heinous method of destruction "next time."

I see your changing of the above sentence is DELIBERATE. You have an agenda. The promise concerning the Noahic covenant was comforting but you changed what God said. GOD SAID He would never again destroy the world BY A GLOBAL FLOOD. But He did not say He would never destroy the world again by other means like you deliberately said--and in 2 Peter 3 He does just that.

Why was the global flood needed? Because of the extent of the wickedness of mankind that wasn't changing despite warnings. God waited 120 years before doing it, hoping for repentance, allowing Noah to be a herald, a proclaimer of righteousness during those years.

Enoch was also used by God to warn those in his generation of God's judgment & a prophecy of the fiery one coming, which you have chosen to dismiss & ignore. God is patient, not desiring people to perish. He sends His prophets to warn.

The global flood came because the thoughts of the wicked mankind at that time was only evil continually & violence was horrific & rampant across the then known world. Only Noah & his family were found to be righteous in God's sight. He knows the hearts of men.

There comes a point of no return, when no change will occur & sins come to full measure. That is when God brings judgment after exhausting all His remedies to avert disaster.

2 Chron 36:11-16 Zedekiah was 21 years old when he began to reign & he reigned 11 years in Jerusalem. He did what was evil in the sight of the Lord his God. He did not humble himself before Jeremiah the prophet, who spoke from the mouth of the Lord.

13He also rebelled against King Nebuchadnezzar, who had made him swear by God. He stiffened his neck & hardened his heart against turning to the Lord, the God of Israel. All the officers of the priests & the people likewise were exceedingly unfaithful, following all the abominations of the nations. And they polluted the house of the Lord that He had made holy in Jerusalem.

15The Lord, the God of their fathers, sent persistently to them by his messengers, because He had compassion on His people & on His dwelling place. 16But they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising His words & scoffing at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord rose against His people, until there was NO remedy.

This time God will destroy this present world with fire, which scoffers like yourself, say won't happen or it doesn't mean that. Yet, the global flood is used as the very example of God's righteous judgment. It happened exactly as the Word of God said. And Peter says in the same way by the same Word of God this next judgment will happen, only it will be much much worse than the global flood. THAT IS WHY God will make a new heavens & a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Jesus said the very same thing & used the judgment of the global flood & the judgment of Sodom & Gomorrah to illustrate the judgment that Christ will do on His coming upon the earth a 2nd time, at His visible & physical return to judge the nations & to rescue the nation of Israel & establish His earthly kingdom on earth in the land of Israel.

It will be so wicked & so violent when He returns & judgment is once again needed. That is why the global flood. That is why the fire & brimstone judgment of Sodom & Gomorrah. Yes, God DID USE FIRE to bring local judgment there. That also actually happened literally.

So for God to use literal fire to judge the world globally is fully believable, not something to scoff at & spiritualize away. God did it then & will do so again, just as He said!

And Jesus using not only the global flood, which was literal, but also using Lot & what happened with Sodom & Gomorrah as also literal, only with fire that time, thus making it a double warning of what is to come.

Jesus, the Judge of all the earth & judge of THE LIVING & the dead, who will bring this to happen when He returns, even mentions He wished it were already kindled, when He comes to cast & throw fire upon the earth.

Luke 12:49,50 "I have come to cast (throw, bring, send) fire upon the earth & how I wish it were already KINDLED (set on fire)! But I have a baptism to undergo & how distressed I am until it is accomplished."

Christ on His 1st coming was the Suffering Messiah, baptized with the suffering & wrath of God for the sin of the world. That was very distressing. But it didn't keep Him from talking about what will happen at His 2nd Coming when He is the One who is casting & throwing fire on the whole earth. He & the Father did it locally, with Sodom & Gomorrah.

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained sulfur & fire on Sodom & Gomorrah out of the sky from the LORD.

2 Pet 2:1-10 Now there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

2Many will follow in their depravity & because of them the way of truth will be maligned. 3In their greed, these false teachers will exploit you with deceptive words. The longstanding verdict against them remains in force & their destruction does not sleep.

4For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell (Tartarus), placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the flood on its UNGODLY people, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, among the eight;

6if He condemned the cities of Sodom & Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes as an example of WHAT IS COMING ON THE UNGODLY & if He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the DEPRAVED CONDUCT OF THE LAWLESS

8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw & heard)— if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials AND to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the DAY OF JUDGMENT.

But as a preterist, you have chosen to believe otherwise & that all this occurred in 70AD, rather than the reality of this happening in the future. Believe as you wish.
 
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C.E and Pavel Mosko, you both don't see how there still is the two Houses - Judah and Israel in the world. Judah are the visible entity of the Jewish people. Israelite people have lost their name, but it is easy to identify them; as every faithful Christian person, still scattered around the world. 1 Peter 2:9-10

The Jews are only 2/12ths of the Israelites, they have been given nearly 2000 years to get right with God and accept Jesus, now they face God's Judgment and only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27:

Ezekiel 21:2-7 Son of man, set your face toward Jerusalem and prophesy against the Land of Israel. I shall draw My sword to cut off everyone from South to North.
I will make away with both the righteous and wicked, My sword will be drawn against everyone from the Negev northward. All courage will fail – it will surely take place.


Ezekiel 21:10-14 A sword is sharpened for the slaughter, polished to flash like lightning.
Should we rejoice in the scepter of Judah? No, the sword condemns the Rod of My Son. Cry and wail for it falls on My people – all your rulers will be killed.
Testing will surely come – what if the scepter of Judah, which the sword despises, does not continue? Swing the sword three times, the great sword of slaughter.


Verse 14 is highly significant, as it foretells three judgements of the Jewish people:
1/ The Babylonian conquest in 585BC.
2/ The revolutions against the Romans, Maccabees to AD 135, when millions were killed.
3/ The final gathering and judgement of the Jewish people in the Land.

At the trial of Jesus, the Jews said in; Matthew 27:25 His blood be on us and our children. In the parable of the Landowner and the Tenants, Luke 19:14 ..his subjects hated him and said “We don’t want this man to be our King
Luke 19:27 As for those enemies of Mine that did not want Me for a King, bring them here ( into the Land ) and slaughter them in My presence.

Matthew 21:38-43 The parable of the vineyard - The wicked tenants said; This is the Heir, come – let us kill him and get the inheritance. The King will bring those criminals to justice and destroy them. He will then rent the vineyard to righteous tenants.
Therefore the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you
[Jews ] and given to a people who will bear the proper fruit. [faithful Christians]

The idea of a general Jewish redemption and conversion, isn't in the Bible. It is a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' theory and neither will happen.


The two-house era ended when Judah was taken into captivity by the Babylonians. The term “Jew” was first applied to the people of Judah before the exile (2 Ki. 16:6) but after their captivity, all Israelites were called Jews and it has been so to this day.

The Babylonian captivity and the devastating defeats the Jews had suffered at the hands of the Romans were indeed judgments upon them, but not the Macabeean revolt. The Jews overthrew and defeated their Greco-Syrian oppressors and enjoyed a brief period of independence until they were subjugated by the Romans.

Whatever verse 14 of Ezekiel means, the revolt lead by the Macabees would not qualify as a judgment although it was a terrible time for the Jewish people and many of them did die. Nevertheless, they were eventually victorious over their enemies.

The purpose for gathering the Jewish people back into their land is for their restoration, not judgment. Never does the Bible associate their regathering for the purpose of punishing them. Far from it.

What cannot be disputed that there will come a time when the Jews will undergo a sifting process under which many of them will die, but they will not all be destroyed. They will eventually be saved and welcome Jesus as their Messiah as the Apostle Paul foretold. (Rom. 11:26)

Those who claim otherwise are in error because they have not studied the scriptures.




“At the trial of Jesus, the Jews said in; Matthew 27:25 His blood be on us and our children. In the parable of the Landowner and the Tenants, Luke 19:14 ..his subjects hated him and said “We don’t want this man to be our King

Luke 19:27 As for those enemies of Mine that did not want Me for a King, bring them here ( into the Land ) and slaughter them in My presence.


Matthew 21:38-43 The parable of the vineyard - The wicked tenants said; This is the Heir, come – let us kill him and get the inheritance. The King will bring those criminals to justice and destroy them. He will then rent the vineyard to righteous tenants.

Therefore the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you [Jews ] and given to a people who will bear the proper fruit. [faithful Christians]”



In spite of all this, the Apostle Paul did say that God has not cast them aside entirely. (Rom. 11:1) and He still has been calling them to repent (Rom. 11:23) just as He has been calling everyone else to repent.
 
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parousia70

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I see your changing of the above sentence is DELIBERATE. You have an agenda. The promise concerning the Noahic covenant was comforting but you changed what God said.

How was it comforting in your view? How was it comforting to know God will never again destroy the world with a Flood (which, demonstrably, did not destroy the Planet at all, And of course all the creatures of the sea were left unharmed) but instead He’ll use some other, much more heinous and devastating means to do so?
What comfort is that exactly?

GOD SAID He would never again destroy the world BY A GLOBAL FLOOD.
Show me the scripture where He said that.
Seems to me you are the one changing what God said.
But He did not say He would never destroy the world again by other means

So you claim God is a manufacturer of loopholes and get-arounds?
I vehemently disagree.
I believe God is deliberate and trustworthy and does not mislead his people by placing little loopholes in His promises so He can later do exactly the opposite of what He promised..

God said, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake”
“Never again curse the ground...”

Do You simply spiritualize that away into meaningless Arglebargle?
Or, can God be trusted to mean what he says?
But as a preterist, you have chosen to believe otherwise & that all this occurred in 70AD, rather than the reality of this happening in the future. Believe as you wish.

The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the earth and material cosmos will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations are unending and perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33)
 
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DavidPT

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How was it comforting in your view? How was it comforting to know God will never again destroy the world with a Flood (which, demonstrably, did not destroy the Planet at all, And of course all the creatures of the sea were left unharmed) but instead He’ll use some other, much more heinous and devastating means to do so?
What comfort is that exactly?


Show me the scripture where He said that.
Seems to me you are the one changing what God said.


So you claim God is a manufacturer of loopholes and get-arounds?
I vehemently disagree.
I believe God is deliberate and trustworthy and does not mislead his people by placing little loopholes in His promises so He can later do exactly the opposite of what He promised..

God said, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake”
“Never again curse the ground...”

Do You simply spiritualize that away into meaningless Arglebargle?
Or, can God be trusted to mean what he says?


The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the earth and material cosmos will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations are unending and perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33)



I don't know about the preterism part, but everything else you said in your post I for one am on the same page with you.
 
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Please read the OP closely. I never stated the promises made to Abraham were canceled by the New covenant. The point of the OP is that the promises UNDER THE OLD COVENANT are now cancelled and void as they have been superseded by the NEW COVENANT.

The promises of the Abrahamic covenant are fulfilled in Christ. For it is through Christ that all nations are blessed. It is Christ to whom the land is an everlasting possession.


As Paul clearly states, the PLURAL promises to Abraham and his seed are to CHRIST.
Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.



You don't need to look to revelation to clearly see that Jerusalem was desolated at the end of the ages.

Luke 21:20-21 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country stay out of the city. For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.




“The point of the OP is that the promises UNDER THE OLD COVENANT are now cancelled and void as they have been superseded by the NEW COVENANT.

The promises of the Abrahamic covenant are fulfilled in Christ. For it is through Christ that all nations are blessed. It is Christ to whom the land is an everlasting possession.”





But the promises that were made to Abraham were made before the New Covenant yet you say that all the Old Covenant promises made to Israel were cancelled by the New Covenant. If that were so, then how can Christ fulfill the promises made to Abraham which were before the New Covenant? This would make the even passage to which you appeal to be of no effect.




“You don't need to look to revelation to clearly see that Jerusalem was desolated at the end of the ages.”





But Jerusalem is a thriving city now and no longer desolate. How could its second destruction have been at the end of the ages when Jesus did not return at that time and still hasn’t yet returned? The end the age will not come until the return of Christ.

And if the promises of Abraham are not extended to the Jewish people, how is it that Paul, even under the New Covenant, called them the children of the promise? (Rom. 9:8) How is it that also that Paul foretells that the Jews will ultimately receive Jesus as their Messiah? (Rom. 11:26)

Why does he then also say that we ought to look forward to their restoration? (Rom. 11:12, 15)

Have you not read how also the promises of Abraham which were then extended through the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were meant to be forever? If they be cancelled out, then those promises are rendered worthless and how can we be so sure that the promises we receive in Christ are any good?
 
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DavidPT

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Have you not read how also the promises of Abraham which were then extended through the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were meant to be forever? If they be cancelled out, then those promises are rendered worthless and how can we be so sure that the promises we receive in Christ are any good?


This point about forever that you brought up, this was something I was thinking about bringing up as well. This would indicate that if some of these interpretations we see in this thread are correct, forever doesn't really mean forever, thus God didn't have a clue about the meaning of forever even though God is the speaker in most of these verses in question. Maybe that means some men are actually wiser than God and have a better understanding of some of these things than God Himself does?
 
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Mathetes66

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"How was it comforting in your view? How was it comforting to know God will never again destroy the world with a Flood (which, demonstrably, did not destroy the Planet at all, And of course all the creatures of the sea were left unharmed) but instead He’ll use some other, much more heinous and devastating means to do so? What comfort is that exactly?"

If you cannot see how comforting the Noahic Covenant is & the beautiful picture it is of God's mercy, glory & patience & salvation & deliverance of 8 people & land animals & birds by means of an ark of deliverance & clean animals sacrificed on an altar as a picture of Christ's substitutionary death, then I cannot help you.

I cannot go into this here or discuss this in detail due to violation of the OP topic. But for others, here are some recognized Bible teachers & scholars that talk about this, especially Gen 8:21,22 in CONTEXT, if one is interested. Also the difference between the Hebrew & Greek words for earth (physical planet) & world (kosmos--worldly system through prevailing conditions or epochs or time frames in history ON the physical earth).

Genesis 8:21 Commentaries: The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.
What does Genesis 8:21 mean?
Genesis 8:21 - The LORD smelled... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary
Is Genesis poetry / figurative, a theological argument (polemic) and thus not history? - creation.com
Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 8:21 - New International Version
Biblical difference between the words World and Earth
Does Genesis 8:21 Cancel the 'Thorns and Thistles' Curse?

"The Bible, and therefore preterism, teaches that the earth & material cosmos will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations are unending and perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33)"

It didn't take long for the 'agenda' to appear. Now preterism is what the Bible says & what the Bible says is what preterism says. We no longer have the God-breathed Scripture but we have to view it through the interpretational lens of preterisism, which is supposedly what God says. And stringing together isolated passages, each from different contexts, to make your interpretational pretext of preterist doctrine, is called eisogesis not exegesis.

"God said, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake.” “Never again curse the ground...” Do You simply spiritualize that away into meaningless ARGLEBARGLE?"

And it didn't take long for the ad hominems to appear either or logical fallacies like 'appealing to authority.' But I did run into a new word phrase so I learned something from you. I looked it up in Webster's dictionary.

Arglebargle: comes from the 1580s word argle, "to argue obstinately," which might be a combination of argue & haggle. Thus the meaning now means 'copious but meaningless talk or writing amounting to nonsense; meaningless nonsense; foolish or gibberish talk. (gibberish: unintelligible or meaningless speech or writing; nonsense.)

So now I am judged that all that will come out of my mouth is unintelligible speech or writing that amounts to nonsense AND I HAVEN'T EVEN GIVEN AN ANSWER YET TO YOUR ASSERTION. Congratulations, you have won the unrighteous judgment award for the day.

I have no desire to debate or argue with you & this is somewhat off-topic to the OP & his thread topic, so I also want to show respect & stay on topic. I have dealt with you before on other websites with Christian content. I have answers for your assertions in context but this is not the place to do so. Have a peaceful day.
 
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claninja

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Hello, if you said that Ephesians 2:12, does not specifically mentioned the land (promise land), then does the promise land has a Name?

So you believe the gentiles in the 1st century were inheriting the physical promise land of Israel through Christ, while they dwelled on earth in the flesh?

Ephesian 2:12-13 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But NOW in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Are there any other land promise by God to Abraham apart from the one in Genesis 12?

The promise land to Abraham and his offspring is reiterated a couple times:

Genesis 12:7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “I will give this land to your offspring.”

Genesis 15:18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I have given this land—from the river of Egypt to the great River Euphrates— the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites,Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites, and Jebusites.”

Genesis 17:8 And to you and your offspring I will give the land of your sojourn—all the land of Canaan—as an eternal possession; and I will be their God.”

The promise land to Isaac and his offspring is reiterated:

Genesis 26:3-4 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with you and will bless you, for to you and to your offspring I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath that I swore to Abraham your father. I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

The promise land to Jacob and his offspring is reiterated:
Genesis 28:13 And behold, the Lord stood above itc and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac. The land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring.


Genesis 48:4 and said to me, ‘Behold, I will make you fruitful and multiply you, and I will make of you a company of peoples and will give this land to your offspring after you for an everlasting possession

Notice God directly speaks to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob with the promise of the land to them and their offspring as an eternal possession.

then to the people of Israel (descendants of the 12 sons of Israel which makes up the people of Israel )

Where does God speak directly to the 12 sons of Jacob that the land would be their eternal possession?

We see that God speaks directly to Moses. He specifically states He would bring the nation of Israel into the land that he swore TO ABRAHAM, ISAAC, and JACOB. He does NOT say that he would bring them into the land He swore to them.

God, 430 years later, simply tells Moses he would give it to them as a possession

Exodus 6:8 I will bring you into the land that I swore to give to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. I will give it to you for a possession. I am the Lord.’”

However, The gift of the promise land to the nation of Israel is CONDITIONAL upon the nation of Israel's obedience. Unlike the unconditional promises spoken to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the Offspring who is Christ.

Deuteronomy 38:23 And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. And you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

Galatians 3:16, mention that the promise were spoken to Abraham and to his Seed (Christ )...

Incorrect, Galatians 3:16 does NOT say promise as in singular, it says PROMISES, as in PLURAL. the greek word for promises in this verse is plural. The PLURAL promises to Abraham and his offspring are to Christ.

Galatians 3:16 the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

So, where is Christ currently?

At the right hand of the Father in heaven.

He lives in those who are born of God...1John3:9, Romans 8:10 etc

I agree.

Does He own the land...Yes...

Good, we agree that Christ, the offspring to whom the promises were spoken, who is in heaven, currently owns the land.

Jesus went to haven on our behalf as a forerunner. Do you know what a forerunner is?

Hebrews 6:20 where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

4274 pródromos (from 4253 /pró, "before" and 1408 /drómos, "a race-course") – properly, a person running ahead (a forerunner) to reach the destination before others – i.e. arriving safely in advance for the benefit of others who also need to get there.

So Jesus, went to heaven in advance for the benefit of others who also need to get there.

So If Jesus went to heaven in advance before we do, and he owns the land, from where are we coheirs with Christ?
 
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claninja

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I already explained this in my posts but evidently you didn't read all of it so you plainly missed it. The context says both a 'plural promises' in Gal 3:16 referring to the ABRAHAMIC COVENANT having many promises. I don't disagree with you there.

Good, so you then agree that the PLURAL promises spoken to Abraham and his offspring are to CHRIST.

But the CONTEXT & argument of the whole chapter focuses on just one of the promises (singular) that Paul was pointing out. I already said all that.

Sure, Paul maybe focusing on a specific part of the Abrahamic promises for the majority of Galatians 3, but that does NOT negate that the Holy Spirit guided paul to write PLURAL promises in Galatians 3:16.


Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,”g meaning One, who is Christ.


The last verse shows Paul's conclusion to the argument he is making. Christ as the singular seed of Abraham fulfills the specific singular promise of INHERITANCE--God granted the promise of INHERITANCE, BEING HEIRS by faith in Christ to the Gentiles as well who have faith.

We Gentiles, who put our faith in Christ, just as our Hebrew father Abraham did, now become the offspring of Abraham, fulfilling the promise of descendants as numerous as the stars of heaven.

We fulfill that singular promise of inheritance by faith in Christ. The singular promise given to Christ was to reconcile Gentiles, the nations, to become the offspring of Abraham, as numerous as the stars. So seed not only refers to Christ in the singular to fulfill this singular promise of inheritance, but it refers to seed of Abraham as plural ALSO, in all those Gentiles of all the nations who have faith in Christ being the offspring or seed of Abraham, as numerous as the stars of heaven.

This is HOW Paul starts his argument:

Gal 3:7ff Understand, then, that those who have faith ARE THE SONS OF ABRAHAM (PLURAL). 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the GENTILES (PLURAL) by faith & foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All NATIONS (PLURAL) will be blessed through you.” 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

One must follow his argument, showing the seed or offspring is both plural & singular. Singular in Christ who made it possible for many offspring or sons of God of the Gentiles to also be included as the numerous offspring or seed of Abraham, just like the BELIEVING HEBREW ABRAHAM.

Romans 4 goes into further detail on the many seed or sons or offspring of BELIEVING HEBREW ABRAHAM including both the Gentiles (the uncircumcision) and the Israelites (circumcision). But here Paul is writing to Gentiles in the church at Galatia & referring to how they are ALSO INCLUDED as the seed (referring to plural children) or sons or offspring of believing Abraham because they also believe by faith in Christ, just as their father Abraham did.

None of this surmounts the fact that Paul states that the PLURAL promises were to Abraham and his offspring, who is Christ.

Galatians 3:16 The promiseS were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,”g meaning One, who is Christ.

So while Paul may be focusing on one of the promises in the Abrahamic covenant........

Galatians 3:8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”

It does not negate that Paul Clearly and explicitly states the PLURAL promises made to Abraham and his offspring are to Christ.

Galatians 3:16 The promiseS were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,”g meaning One, who is Christ.
 
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claninja

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yet you say that all the Old Covenant promises made to Israel were cancelled by the New Covenant.

Correct. As scripture clearly states, Christ took away the old covenant and made it obsolete at his 1st advent. A covenant's blessings are not in effect, if the covenant is not in effect.

Hebrews 10:9 Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second.

Hebrews 8:13 By speaking of a new covenant,c He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

If that were so, then how can Christ fulfill the promises made to Abraham which were before the New Covenant?

Not quite sure what you are asking....

The new covenant fulfills the Abrahamic promises.

Romans 15:8 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs, 9so that the Gentiles may glorify God for His mercy

This would make the even passage to which you appeal to be of no effect.

Not following your train of thought.....

But Jerusalem is a thriving city now and no longer desolate.

Is the old covenant still in effect?

And if the promises of Abraham are not extended to the Jewish people, how is it that Paul, even under the New Covenant, called them the children of the promise? (Rom. 9:8)

Why would the promises of Abraham not extend to jewish people in the body of Christ?

galatians 3:28-29 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slaveg nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise

How could its second destruction have been at the end of the ages when Jesus did not return at that time and still hasn’t yet returned? The end the age will not come until the return of Christ.

The apostles wrote that it was the end of the ages. were the apostles wrong?

Paul believed he was living at the end of the ages.
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come

John believed it was the last hour
1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

Peter believed the end of all things was at hand
1 peter 4:7 The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.

James believed the coming of Jesus was at hand and that the judge was standing (present tense) at the door.
James 5:8-9 You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 9Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door

How is it that also that Paul foretells that the Jews will ultimately receive Jesus as their Messiah? (Rom. 11:26)

Can the Jews, let alone anyone, who don't believe in Christ, be heirs with Christ and offspring of Abraham?

If they be cancelled out, then those promises are rendered worthless and how can we be so sure that the promises we receive in Christ are any good?

They were not cancelled out because Christ is the seed.

Galatians 3:16 The promiseS were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,”g meaning One, who is Christ.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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C.E and Pavel Mosko, you both don't see how there still is the two Houses - Judah and Israel in the world. Judah are the visible entity of the Jewish people. Israelite people have lost their name, but it is easy to identify them; as every faithful Christian person, still scattered around the world. 1 Peter 2:9-10

The Jews are only 2/12ths of the Israelites, they have been given nearly 2000 years to get right with God and accept Jesus, now they face God's Judgment and only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27:
Jesus completely and fully fulfilled Jeremiah 31/Hebrews 8 in the 1st century.
Revelation is showing that..................

New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 Hebrew 8

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold! days are coming, a declaration of Yahweh, and I-cut<03772> with the House of Yisra'el and with the House of Y@huwdah a NEW Covenant
32 Not like as a Covenant which I cut with their fathers in day of to hold-fast of Me in hand of them to bring forth them from land of Egypt, which My Covenant they-broke and-I, I-possessed in them, declaration of Yahweh
33 But this the Covenant which I shall cut with House-of Yisra'el after those days, declarations of Yahweh. I-give My Law within them, and upon their heart I shall write it/her and I become to them for an Elohim and they, they shall become to Me for a people.

Hebrews 8:8
"For faulting to them He is saying 'behold! days are coming is saying LORD, and I shall be together-finishing/consummating upon the House of Israel and upon the house of Judah a NEW<2537> Covenant'
9 Not according as the Covenant which I make to their fathers in day of taking of Me their hand, to be leading them out of land of Egypt, that not they remain in the Covenant of Me, and I, I un-care of them, is saying LORD.
10 That this the Covenant which I shall be Covenanting to the House of Israel after those days, is saying LOrd.
Giving laws of Me into the minds of them, and upon hearts of them I shall be engraving them. And I shall be to them into God and they shall be to Me into a People.

Jhn 4:21
Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22
“You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
23
“But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24
“God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
25
The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
===========================

Faith, Mountain, and Sea Matt 21:21/Mark 11:3
Faith, mountain and sea.

Matthew 21:21

Yet Jesus answering said to them, "amen I am saying to ye, if ever ye may be having Faith, and no ye may be doubting<1252>, not only the of the fig-tree<4808> ye shall be doing,
but even-ever to this Mountain ye may saying, 'Be being lifted up!<142> and be being cast!<906> into the Sea', it shall be becoming"; [Revelation 8:8]

Hebrews 12:
18 For you have not come to a mountain that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and to blackness, darkness, storm, 19 the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which those who heard it begged that not one more word should be spoken to them,
22 But ye have come<προσεληλύθατε 4334> to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable multitudes of angels,

Revelation 8:8
And the second Messenger trumpets,
and as it were a great Mountain with fire burning was cast into the Sea, and the third of the sea became blood,

Revelation 18:
18 And they cried<2896>, observing the smoke of Her burning saying, "What like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.
20 ‘Be making merry<2165> over Her, O heaven, and the Saints, the Apostles and the Prophets,
that the GOD judges the judgment of ye out of Her!’
21 And one strong Messenger lifts a stone as a great millstone,
and casts into the sea
,
saying:
"That thus with violence<3731> shall be being cast Babylon the great City,
and not no may be being found anymore in Her; 22 and voice of harpers<2790>
and musicians<3451> and flutists<834>, and trumpeters<4538>
not no should be being heard in Thee anymore.
 
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claninja

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The singular promise of the land is also completely fulfilled eventually in Christ, as I have repeatedly shown in various posts & Scriptures all through the Bible, from prophets, apostles & Christ Himself.

Finally, you agree. The promise land is fulfilled in Christ. HOWEVER, you state it is "eventually" fulfilled?

Christ has not yet been made Lord?

Acts 2:36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

And thus the earth is not yet His?
1 Corinthians 10:26 For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof

I would disagree, Christ was made Lord, and the earth is His. He has all authority in heaven and ON EARTH. If the earth is his, then physical land promised made to Abraham is His.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me
 
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parousia70

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If you cannot see how comforting the Noahic Covenant is & the beautiful picture it is of God's mercy, glory & patience & salvation & deliverance of 8 people & land animals & birds by means of an ark of deliverance & clean animals sacrificed on an altar as a picture of Christ's substitutionary death, then I cannot help you.

I absolutely see the comfort in the Covenant... but unlike you I don't add Words to God's promise (based solely on a futurist bias) that make it mean "Even though it sounds like I'm saying I'll never again curse the ground/destroy the earth again, I actually WILL Curse the ground and destroy the earth again for the sake of man, and I'll do so in an even more heinous and devistating way" caveat/loophole/get-around that God never Himself Added to it.... Thus REMOVING any and all "comfort" from it, and rendering it an EMPTY promise.

I cannot go into this here or discuss this in detail due to violation of the OP topic.

I trust my friend OP @claninja will tell us if he thinks we should stop chasing each other down this particular OP topic offshoot...And I'll happily refrain if he dose indeed ask us to..

It didn't take long for the 'agenda' to appear. Now preterism is what the Bible says & what the Bible says is what preterism says. We no longer have the God-breathed Scripture but we have to view it through the interpretational lens of preterisism, which is supposedly what God says.

How is that any less appropriate than your insistence that we view God Breathed Scripture through the interpretative lens of Futurism, Since you claim futurism is "supposedly what God says"?

It's OK when you do it, but not OK when I do it?

And stringing together isolated passages, each from different contexts, to make your interpretational pretext of * doctrine, is called eisogesis not exegesis.

Call the Kettle Black often, Mr. Pot?
And it didn't take long for the ad hominems to appear either or logical fallacies like 'appealing to authority.

Says the Guy who accused me of Changing Gods words... AFTER He prefaces a statement GOD NEVER MADE with "God Said...." And the Guy who has leveled attacks of "spiritualization and Scoffing" on me without even addressing the content of my position and the scripture I use to support it....

Again, Mr. Pot, If you insist on calling the kettle Black, be prepared for the Kettle to point out your shared hue back atcha...

So now I am judged that all that will come out of my mouth is unintelligible speech or writing that amounts to nonsense AND I HAVEN'T EVEN GIVEN AN ANSWER YET TO YOUR ASSERTION. Congratulations, you have won the unrighteous judgment award for the day.

Incorrect... I merely asked you if you Spiritualize away God's ACTUAL Promise of: "I will NEVER AGAIN CURSE THE GROUND for the sake of man"

You have implied that you do not believe that statement of God's to be true and correct - or at least that it contains a caveat... So I merely asked if you just spiritualize it away into meaningless arglebargle?

Was God Mistaken when He made that promise?... or was He flat out Lying?... or is it as you imply... That He added some sort of Lawyerspeak-Loophole to His promise so He didn't really HAVE to honor it?

Why, in your view, would God have even said "I will NEVER AGAIN CURSE THE GROUND for the sake of man, if He didn't actually MEAN it?

How do you reconcile that clear and plain statement of our Lord with your seemingly POLAR OPPOSITE view?

I have dealt with you before on other websites with Christian content. I have answers for your assertions in context but this is not the place to do so. Have a peaceful day.

I believe you have mistaken me for someone else.

I'm only here. Deal with me here, or Don't.

You have the ball.. you may take it out of the sandbox and go home if you wish.
Peace be with you as well.
 
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keras

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It seems that the question of the OP is too difficult for many to get their heads around.
It is really quite simple:
1/ Abram proved his faith in God at Mt Moriah.
2/ God made a Covenant with Abraham that all the holy Land would be his possession and for his descendants.
3/ When Jesus came, He embodied all of God's Promises, as a Savior, Redeemer and of the holy Land for all who would believe in Him and keep His Commandments.

Soon to happen will be the dramatic world changer of the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, Revelation 6:12-17, that will clear and cleanse the holy Land, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, and every faithful Christian; the children of Abraham by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, will go to live there, Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Matthew 3:12, Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 7:9

So the true nation of Israel is not just those who call themselves Jews, but only the people of faith; those who stand strong in their trust for the Lord's protection, from every race, nation and language, who will be the people God always wanted in the holy Land, but has never yet had there. They will be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:6-8, Matthew 5:14-16
All born again Christians, who are in the majority; actual descendants of Jacob, from the ten Northern tribes, still scattered around the world.
 
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claninja

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I trust my friend OP @claninja will tell us if he thinks we should stop chasing each other down this particular OP topic offshoot...And I'll happily refrain if he dose indeed ask us to..

No objections here. feel free to pursue
 
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keras

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Incorrect... I merely asked you if you Spiritualize away God's ACTUAL Promise of: "I will NEVER AGAIN CURSE THE GROUND for the sake of man"
Genesis 9:15 Then, [the Sign of the rainbow] I shall remember the Covenant I have made with you and with all living creatures and never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all creation. REBible

This is specific; that God will not cause a worldwide flood ever again.
But His prophets tell of a forthcoming fire that will once again reset civilization. Matthew 24:37-44

Your continuing denials of the Prophetic Word, with your unpleasant insinuations are becoming tiresome.
 
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Mathetes66

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"Good, so you then agree that the PLURAL promises spoken to Abraham and his offspring are to CHRIST."

Yes & No.

We are close in most things. It has been a good discussion. Thank you.

You will notice WHAT the verse & its context says:

'Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, NO ONE SETS IT ASIDE OR ADDS CONDITIONS TO IT. 16Now the promises were spoken to Abraham AND to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.

17What I am saying is this: the Law, which came 430 years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

A big question must be asked. Since we know when & where God spoke to Abraham when giving the promises in the unconditional Abrahamic covenant, WHEN & WHERE did God speak these also to his Seed (Christ)? Do you know?

I said yes & no in my answer because the promises were spoken by God to BOTH Abraham & also to his Seed (Christ). Both, not just one. So that is why I qualified my statement not agreeing fully with your conclusion.

And here is my explanation why I do not fully agree with what you said, but mostly. We are not too far apart.

Remember in my prior post, I mentioned an amazing fact in Scripture about the phrase, 'and the word of the Lord came to...' as being direct revelation of God to man. And that in Genesis 15:1,4 this is said of Abraham & that it was the FIRST TIME IN SCRIPTURE, that this is mentioned, being repeated afterwards with prophet after prophet receiving direct revelation from the LORD.

So we know it is God speaking--His very God-breathed words to someone. That is what we mean by Scripture being inspired.

So I come back to my question: where did God ALSO speak to the Messiah, in promising the things spoken in the unconditional covenant to Abraham?

Psalm 2!

Why do the nations RAGE & the peoples plot in vain? 2The kings of the earth set themselves & the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord AND against his Anointed ('HaMoshiach', Messiah), saying, 3“Let us burst their bonds apart & cast away their cords from us.”

4He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. 5Then He will speak to them in his wrath & terrify them in His fury, saying, 6“As for Me, I have SET MY KING ON ZION, MY HOLY HILL.”

7I will tell of the decree: THE LORD SAID TO ME, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you. 8Ask of Me & I WILL make THE NATIONS YOUR HERITAGE & THE ENDS OF THE EARTH YOUR POSSESSION.

9You shall break them with a rod of iron & dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.” 10Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11Serve the Lord with fear & rejoice with trembling. 12Kiss the Son, lest He be angry & you perish in the way, for His wrath is quickly kindled. BLESSED are all who take refuge in Him.

Here we see where God the Father spoke these promises to the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, His Son, the King of Israel, to rule from Mt. Zion over all the ends of the earth. We see the blessing, we see the heritage or inheritance, we see the ends of the earth as His possession.

Now again we know that the one promise of inheritance promised to Abraham's Seed, the Messiah, will see its fulfillment in the Gentiles ALSO being wild shoots, grafted into the cultivated vine of Israel. We are ADOPTED SONS by faith; the offspring of Abraham being the nation of Israel are NATIVE SONS who believe by faith; the rest in unbelief are not grafted in as unbelieving Gentiles or are branches removed as unbelieving Israelites.

So yes, the Promised Seed is the Messiah, our Lord. Yet the promises also are given to Abraham's physical descendants (plural) when God spoke & reiterated His promises to Abraham in Genesis 17, still before he was circumcised & still before the OC was established.

This was when God changed his name from Abram ('exalted father') to Abraham ('father of many nations'), showing the promises also belonged to his descendants which became the nation of Israel.

Gen 17:3-8 Then Abram fell face down & God said to him, “As for Me, this is My covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. No longer will you be called Abram, but your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.

6I will make you exceedingly fruitful; I will make nations of you & kings will descend from you. I will establish My covenant as an everlasting covenant between Me AND you AND YOUR DESCENDANTS AFTER YOU, to be your God AND the God of your DESCENDANTS AFTER YOU.

8And to you AND YOUR DESCENDANTS I WILL GIVE THE LAND OF YOUR SOJOURN—all the land of Canaan—as an eternal possession & I will be their God.”

So that is why I qualified my statement. Yes, the promises are for Abraham; yes, the promises are for the Messiah AND YES, the promises are for Abraham's physical descendants, which is the special, peculiar nation of Israel that God chose as the pupil of His eye, despite their often failings.

God is not done with them yet. They are now ONCE AGAIN, coming back into the geographical promised land as all the prophets predicted would happen, from all the nations to which they have been scattered.

This means we are still in the times of the Gentiles, the Messiah hasn't returned yet to bring further fulfillment of these promises. He told the parables that He would be gone for a long time before He returned.

And we see the reality of that. Christ's emphasis is that yes, the time is at hand & we are in the last days or close to the end of the age, AS FAR AS GOD'S TIMETABLE IS NOT OURS. Christ's emphasis is not on the length as much as on He will appear SUDDENLY, WITHOUT WARNING, like a thief in the night. So we are to be awake & ready, conducting His business until He returns.

Here are a few other verses to ponder on as well.

Isaiah 45:23,24 By Myself I have sworn; truth has gone out from My mouth, a word that will not be revoked: Every knee will bow before Me, every tongue will confess allegiance. Surely they will say of Me, 'In the LORD alone are righteousness & strength.'" All who RAGE against Him will come to Him & be put to shame.

Rev 11:15 Then the 7th angel sounded his trumpet & loud voices called out in heaven: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord AND of His Christ (Messiah) & He will reign forever & ever."

Psalm 110:5 The Lord at Thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of His wrath. (Messianic Psalm also)

Acts 4:23-30 On their release, Peter & John returned to their own people & reported everything that the chief priests & elders had said to them. When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord.

“Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven & the earth & the sea & everything in them. You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant, our father David:

‘Why do the nations rage & the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth take their stand& the rulers gather together against the Lord & against His Anointed One.’ (Messiah)

27In fact, in this very city Herod & Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles & the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. They carried out what Your hand & will had decided beforehand would happen.

29And now, Lord, consider their threats, and enable Your servants to speak Your word with complete boldness, as You stretch out Your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.”

Isaiah 61:1-11 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives & release from darkness to the prisoners,to proclaim the year of the LORD’s FAVOR AND the day of our God’s VENGEANCE, to comfort all who mourn, to provide for those who grieve in Zion—to give them a crown of beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, & a garment of praise for a spirit of despair.

So they will be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified. They will rebuild the ancient ruins; they will restore the places long devastated; they will renew the ruined cities, the desolations of many generations.

Foreigners will stand & feed your flocks & foreigners will be your plowmen & vinedressers. But you will be called the priests of the LORD; they will speak of you as ministers of our God; you will feed on the wealth of the nations & you will boast in their riches.

Instead of shame, My people will have a double portion & instead of humiliation, they will rejoice in their share & so they will inherit a double portion in their land & everlasting joy will be theirs. For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery & iniquity; in My faithfulness I will give them their recompense & make an everlasting covenant with them.

Their descendants will be known among the nations & their offspring among the peoples. All who see them will acknowledge that they are a people the LORD has blessed. I will rejoice greatly in the LORD, my soul will exult in my God; for He has clothed me with garments of salvation & wrapped me in a robe of righteousness, as a groom wears a priestly headdress & as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

For as the earth brings forth its bud & as the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness & praise to spring forth before all the nations.

Isaiah 60:18 No longer will violence be heard in your land, nor ruin or destruction within your borders. But you will name your walls Salvation & your gates Praise.
 
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I liked 'bad' better! [You can edit your posts]

It is evident that soon, there will be two separate ‘Days of the Lord’ in which the Lord acts to punish His enemies. The Sixth Seal, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, is the next prophesied event that we can expect, of a worldwide judgement/punishment by fire from the sun, which will clear and cleanse His Land. Most clearly described in Isaiah 63:1-6 and Habakkuk 3:12 ‘Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.’ But the Lord is not seen: Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11

Then, several years later, at the Return of Jesus, is the Sixth and Seventh Bowl fulfilment, the great Day of the Sovereign Lord, when He disposes of the armies of the Anti Christ.
Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-5

Revelation 22:6-21 These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, who inspires the prophets has shown His servants what must soon take place. Remember, Jesus is coming soon! Happy is the person who takes to heart the words of prophecy. Meanwhile, let the evildoers persist in their evil, but let the godly persevere in their goodness and the holy in their holiness. Happy are those who wash their robes with righteousness! They shall be free to eat from the tree of life and may enter the City by the gates. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!
Forgive my absence...I wanted much to get back into this, but looking your thoughts over I see we interpret Revelation differently as well. You no doubt are some level of a millennialist, correct? I am an amil and do not see the thousand year reign as literal, but figurative. The 1000 years are representative of the unknown time of Christ's return, could be short time or long. The Revelation is written in riddle-like fashion which Christ Himself demonstrates for us when He opens by giving us the understanding of the "mysteries" of the lampstands and the stars. Daniels revelations had to be made plain...revelations by nature must be made plain for our understanding.
The interpretation for the 1000 year reign comes from II Peter...
II Peter 3:4-10:
4 They will say, “Where is this promised coming of his? For from the time that our fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have from the beginning of the creation.” 5 You see, what they are intentionally forgetting is that the heavens came into existence long ago by the word of God and that the earth came together out of the water and between the waters. 6 Through these waters the former world perished, when it was flooded with water. 7 And now, by that same word, the heavens and earth have been stored up for fire, since they are being kept until the day of judgment and the destruction of the ungodly. 8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: For the Lord, one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to do what he promised, as some consider slowness. Instead, he is patient for your sakes, not wanting anyone to perish, but all to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. On that day the heavens will pass away with a roar, the elements will be dissolved as they burn with great heat, and the earth and what was done on it will be burned up. --EHV version

All the Revelation riddle interpretation can be found in within the text of the Bible.
 
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