Abortion: The Real Reason Why States are Passing Laws Against It

[Belk]

Limiting abortion in the womb is about preventing children being killed.

I find this hard to credit when there are proven methods of reducing abortion that are passed over. I also find it hard to credit when pro-life people keep bringing up women's sexual behavior and how they hope limiting abortion will cause it to change.

If because of that women decide that they wish to have less sex, use more protection, or anything else, that is up to the woman involved, and any partner that may be in the relationship.

If you are fertile then sex is always something that can lead to pregnancy, even with contraception. Christians didn't cause that to be reality.

But that is kind of the issue. It is not always up to women and their partners. As you say even in cases where increased protection is used there is a possibility of procreation. Christians might not of caused that but some are certainly fighting to ensure there are limited options in dealing with it.

They should be addressed. Poverty, lack of parental bond, etc. are all highly correlated with abortion, as well as with poor outcomes in level of education, wealth, etc.

However, if you are pro life because you think that the life of children in the womb is important, than how does the way some other person views things change that view? The child is important or not. And you can still strive to change people's minds on the question of addressing the needs of others.

Let me ask you a question. If you could reduce abortions now through enacting measures that will help women in need and there is no political resistance why would that not be your first step? Why would you focus on the piece that is very difficult and contentious?

There have been a few in this thread alone.

Yes, a handful. But their voices are drowned out by those who wish to restrict abortion without being willing to address the underlying causes of their choice.

 

[tall73]

I’m not sure why you posted that. As you can see, there are a number of birth control methods that are almost 100% effective.

I posted it because almost one hundred percent is not one hundred percent. Even the most effective on the list would indicate one pregnancy out of 1,000 women over a years time.

Is it better than no contraception for preventing pregnancy? Of course. But it still results in unplanned pregnancies.

The data you are ignoring is the data that shows that accesss to free birth control and education can cut unplanned pregnancies in half or more.

How am I ignoring it? In multiple threads we have had the discussion that accurate information, etc. regarding abstinence, birth control, etc. are important.

Half of abortions is still way too many abortions because it is NOT about control for me, it is actually about the notion that it is a child.

That is why I personally waited to have sex until I was ready for the possibility of having a child. Because if you are fertile then to have sex is to open up that possibility.

 

[JackRT]

Just to put a number to that, the average cost of an abortion per Planned Parenthood is $350-950 in the first trimester.

How much does it cost to get an abortion?

The cost of having a baby is around 10,000, and then of course, you have a baby to take care of after that.

How much it costs to have a baby in every state, whether you have health insurance or don't

Here in Canada, the total cost to us for pre natal care, delivery and post natal care for our two daughters was $0.00 Abortions are also $0.00.The abortion rate in the USA is about 50% above that of Canada.

 

[tall73]

I find this hard to credit when there are proven methods of reducing abortion that are passed over.

I have not argued for passing over them.

 

[tall73]

Here in Canada, the total cost to us for pre natal care, delivery and post natal care for our two daughters was $0.00 Abortions are also $0.00.The abortion rate in the USA is about 50% above that of Canada.

Thank you, that illustrates the problem well.

 

[Belk]

I have not argued for passing over them.

Understood and I respect your position. However the vast majority of pro-life folks have passed them over. They would rather do the hard lift then the easy lift.

 

[tall73]

I also find it hard to credit when pro-life people keep bringing up women's sexual behavior and how they hope limiting abortion will cause it to change.

Women, men, etc. I hope behavior changes that caused children in the womb to die.

 

[ChicanaRose]

Sorry, I don't know how my comment wound up on this thread. I was responding to a different thread. ????

Ok no prob. : )

 

[tall73]

But that is kind of the issue. It is not always up to women and their partners. As you say even in cases where increased protection is used there is a possibility of procreation. Christians might not of caused that but some are certainly fighting to ensure there are limited options in dealing with it.

We cannot control the possibility of pregnancy, but we can control our behavior (willingly, not due to law would be my preference).

But even after the pregnancy that does not demand aborting. My wife and I used contraception for a time. In fact, we even used timing methods for a time, knowing it was less effective (with the help of a device that measures temps etc.) We would prefer not to have a child in our first couple years of marriage, but if we did there was no question we would raise the child. So we accepted the reality of the possibility of pregnancy and acted responsibly within that.

Let me ask you a question. If you could reduce abortions now through enacting measures that will help women in need and there is no political resistance why would that not be your first step? Why would you focus on the piece that is very difficult and contentious?

I think it should be the first step! All the data says poverty and fatherlessness, etc. indicate the highest likelihood. I don't have a magic wand to make it happen, however. And our two party system limits any voice but the establishment. And the establishment doesn't want a party that is against war, for addressing needs, and pro-life.

Yes, a handful. But their voices are drowned out by those who wish to restrict abortion without being willing to address the underlying causes of their choice.

But that doesn't change the morality of ending a pregnancy. Other people's thoughts don't determine my view of right and wrong. They may make it tougher to take action to help. But as several posters have indicated I don't think the main reason people change is the law. I think most people change because of changed thinking, so I spend most of my time worrying about that, because most of the things I care about politically are a long-shot.

 

[Jermayn]

Indeed! We need to punish those dirty, dirty irresponsible women.

There's a reason God speaks against sex before marriage and adultery. I'm not going to tell you it's ok to murder your kids to make you feel better because you didn't listen.

 

[ChicanaRose]

Try though I might, I can’t destroy enough brain cells to convince myself that wholesale slaughter of unborn babies is the morally superior answer.

What my posts lack in sensitivity for stronk wamen is made up for in saving unborn human lives. The level of shame that has been badly attempted against me in this thread overlooks my abject lack of repentance in my opposition to abortion.

I cannot be made to regret anything I’ve said here so this “Wow just wow, I sinceriously can’t even right now” stuff is ineffective.

Child of Mercy - Chastity

 

[ChicanaRose]

This post pretty much sums up my thoughts on the entire matter, and I've found it to be extremely accurate over the years.

Yeah, me three. Even though I am still prolife, I am not at all fond of the approach. The end doesn't justify the means because without love, the movement amounts to nothing (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

 

[Sparagmos]

We agree proper use is very important. And double methods are even more effective.

However, if you had 100 women, all using proper method, having sex while each time using a male condom then over a year you would have two pregnancies. And after two years you would have four pregnancies, etc.

Which would be great, because that would be an enormous reduction in unplanned pregnancies.

 

[Aldebaran]

Thank you for your honesty. It is good to see what we have long suspected but most pro-life people deny. This is about controlling women's sexuality.

Oh sure! As if I can't live in peace unless I can control every woman's sexuality.
The very idea doesn't even make sense. It's more of a stall tactic just to put pro-lifers on the defensive.

 

[Aldebaran]

So you are on board with the pastors suggestion of working on the underlying reasons women choose abortion rather then trying to outlaw it?

One reason is because places like Planned "Parenthood" are good at portraying a woman's unborn baby as less than human--as just some sort of unwanted growth that needs to be removed to improve the woman's life. Makes the whole abortion process seem so simple, so harmless, and without consequence.

 

[ChicanaRose]

The people in the movements who say they're "pro-life" are anything but. They are just anti-abortion and they don't have a heart for people who are outside of the womb.

Exactly. And somehow, the murder in our hearts (Matt. 5:22, 1 John 3:15) against pregnant women is excusable.

"Unplanned pregnancy, oftentimes, is categorized by the church as a more significant sin that perhaps lying, cheating, stealing, or any of the other sins that God detests"

Why Single Moms Don't Go To Church - The Life of a Single Mom
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[Aldebaran]

Exactly. And somehow, the murder in our hearts (Matt. 5:22, 1 John 3:15) against pregnant women is excusable.
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Pregnancy is murder?

 

[ChicanaRose]

Pregnancy is murder?

Hatred is murder. (Please refer to the verses I included). Perhaps I could have phrased it better: murder in our hearts "committed" against pregnant women.

 

[USincognito]

There's a reason God speaks against sex before marriage and adultery. I'm not going to tell you it's ok to murder your kids to make you feel better because you didn't listen.

"Murder your kids"? LOL

Welcome to CF.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That did not answer my question. Are you on board with working to limit the reasons women choose to abort?

of course...