Abortion: The Real Reason Why States are Passing Laws Against It

[tall73]

double

 

[tall73]

I see it as improving society. If that means “controlling women’s sexuality”, eh, whatever. I can roll with that.

Yes. It is amazing how many men are certain they should control other peoples sex lives instead of their own. If only they had as much concern for the 1 in 5 women who will be raped in their lifetime.

Rape is already illegal.

I think perhaps you miss the thrust of my point. Rape happens a lot, to a lot of women. It is not just a few men whom are committing these rapes. It is another form of control of sexuality.

You were responding to the poster. Are you suggesting the poster is a rapist or supports rape? Otherwise, how does your comment relate to the topic?

 

[zephcom]

Yet even scientific evidence indicates that it indeed does happen: Babies start learning before they are even born

Dogs learn and we don't call them 'human'.

 

[DM25]

There are Atheists against abortion, how would that fit into this religious dogma engraved in American law?

Yeah before I got saved I was agnostic and I was against abortion. But the media was trying to convince me it was ok, it just always felt wrong to me. I also almost got aborted myself.

To me, I'm actually shocked how atheists can support it. At least as Christians when a baby gets aborted we can know it is going to heaven immediately with God so even though the action of doing it is bad, at least we have comfort in that. But in atheists view they are literally preventing the babies from even existing and think the human-to-be will just be dead with no existence and no chance in life. It just seems sick to me. How can they support abortion when believing this?

 

[Aldebaran]

Dogs learn and we don't call them 'human'.

Dogs learn before they're born? That's what I posted about regarding human babies.

 

[WherevertheWindblows]

Yeah before I got saved I was agnostic and I was against abortion. But the media was trying to convince me it was ok, it just always felt wrong to me. I also almost got aborted myself.

To me, I'm actually shocked how atheists can support it. At least as Christians when a baby gets aborted we can know it is going to heaven immediately with God so even though the action of doing it is bad, at least we have comfort in that. But in atheists view they are literally preventing the babies from even existing and think the human-to-be will just be dead with no existence and no chance in life. It just seems sick to me. How can they support abortion when believing this?

You know when I was an unbeliever I wasn't against it, so that doesn't shock me so much. But I wasn't angry or passionate about making it one way or the other I was pretty neutral on the issue. I have had many of my own views changed over time myself. I can look back and cringe at some of my beliefs. Takes time to renew your mind I think.

 

[Pommer]

It really is! This is part and parcel of patriarchy. The control of female sexuality ensures the continued subjugation of the female. The ultimate control of female sexuality is in the rape culture. Patriarchy is perhaps the most insidious evil humanity has ever inflicted on itself.

Religion was a lot more carnal when women ran things.

 

[Belk]

You were responding to the poster. Are you suggesting the poster is a rapist or supports rape? Otherwise, how does your comment relate to the topic?

As I said, rape is another form of control. I was wishing as many people cared about stopping rape from happening as those who put time and energy into stopping abortion.

 

[Pommer]

Just to put a number to that, the average cost of an abortion per Planned Parenthood is $350-950 in the first trimester.

Yeah, funny how the cost escalated after all the new regulations seeking to “improve women’s healthcare” placed onerous restrictions on abortion clinics, making their overhead rise.

 

[Pommer]

Even the most effective on the list would indicate one pregnancy out of 1,000 women over a years time.

Heck, even being a virgin hasn’t been 100% “effective”,

 

[Pommer]

That is why I personally waited to have sex until I was ready for the possibility of having a child. Because if you are fertile then to have sex is to open up that possibility.

Was “contraception” not an option?

 

[Pommer]

There's a reason God speaks against sex before marriage and adultery. I'm not going to tell you it's ok to murder your kids to make you feel better because you didn't listen.

Some folks think that John 8:1-8 were added by a copyist and is not a proper teaching of Jesus, I am going to assume you amongst them.

 

[tall73]

As I said, rape is another form of control. I was wishing as many people cared about stopping rape from happening as those who put time and energy into stopping abortion.

Do you have some poll that shows most don't care about rape? There are obviously people raping, or we would not see such a huge problem. However, I don't think most approve at all. And where I am at there are a lot of community, legal, etc. efforts to combat human trafficking, etc.

 

[tall73]

Was “contraception” not an option?

Sure it was. I did not wish to have sex until marriage. Once I was married we delayed pregnancy but would have been ready to raise a child if pregnancy ensued.

 

[Pommer]

One reason is because places like Planned "Parenthood" are good at portraying a woman's unborn baby as less than human--as just some sort of unwanted growth that needs to be removed to improve the woman's life. Makes the whole abortion process seem so simple, so harmless, and without consequence.

You understand that clinics that provide abortion services, (even those that do not, but provide referrals to those that do) are to present prenatal information in a neutral manner.
No woman is “pressured” to “choose” one option over another.

 

[Pommer]

Therefore, from the very beginning of our nation, our laws have declared that it is wrong to intentionally kill an innocent human being (so we really have no need of an additional law, religious or otherwise, to tell us what we already know, what we already hold to be self-evident truth).

Please point me to these “early laws” that prohibited abortion.

Abortion was not always a crime. During the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, abortion of early pregnancy was legal under common law. Abortions were illegal only after "quickening," the point at which a pregnant woman could feel the movements of the fetus.

When Abortion Was a Crime

 

[rjs330]

Yes. I have met a few Christians who believe as you do. Mostly here on CF. The problem is that your voices seem to be few and far between and they certainly are not in the political pro-life movements we see. If they were I think we would have a much better society and my respect for Christians would go up immensely. One of the best men I had the honor of knowing was a Christian who lived his faith rather then trying to legislate it.

Things like this really make me scratch my head. I hear about Christians trying to legislate their faith. Can I get a specific example of this?

 

[Pommer]

"Leading the Reproductive Health and Rights Movement
On campuses and online, in statehouses and courts, in local communities, and in the media, Planned Parenthood is an outspoken , passionate advocate for policies that enable all people to access comprehensive reproductive and sexual health care, education, and information. Whether we’re talking to members of Congress, parents, or faith leaders, or arguing cases before the U.S. Supreme Court — we fight for commonsense policies that respect your right to make empowered, informed decisions about health, sex, and family planning.

...and that’s BAD?

 

[St_Worm2]

Our Constitution states that being BORN in America confers citizenship. That seems to be only place where where our guiding documents attempts to define when life actually starts. You simply assume that your belief defines the beginning of human life and wrap yourself in the flag to pretend the nation supports you.

And, in fact, the primary guiding document...The Constitution, seems pretty clear that life begins at birth and not conception.

Hello again Zephcom, being "BORN in America" in this case refers to/is solely concerned with the "place" of our birth, not the "moment" of our birth. The Constitution grants citizenship to those who are born here (or elsewhere, if the birth parents are Americans), but in doing so, it makes no attempt whatsoever to define when human life actually begins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli
Jus soli, meaning "right of the soil", commonly referred to as birthright citizenship in the United States, is the right of anyone born in the territory of a state to nationality or citizenship.

Jus sanguinis, meaning "right of blood", is a principle of nationality law by which citizenship is not determined by place of birth but by having one or both parents who are citizens of the state. Children at birth may automatically be citizens if their parents have state citizenship or national identities of ethnic, cultural, or other origins.
​

--David

Psalm 139
13 Thou didst form my inward parts;
Thou didst weave me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Thy works,
And my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from Thee,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth.
16 Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Thy book they were all written,
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
.​

 

[rjs330]

It really is! This is part and parcel of patriarchy. The control of female sexuality ensures the continued subjugation of the female. The ultimate control of female sexuality is in the rape culture. Patriarchy is perhaps the most insidious evil humanity has ever inflicted on itself.

This is such hogwash. Just because prolifers want to save babies lives, suddenly we are trying to control a woman's sexuality and subjugate women? The left is trying to subjugate Christians by not allowing us to put up crosses and nativity scene up in public places.

 

[rjs330]

...and that’s BAD?

We wouldn't have a problem with any of what they do if they just left abortion out of it. The rest of what they do is fine.