Infant Baptism

GingerBeer

Cool and refreshing with a kick!
Mar 26, 2017
3,511
1,348
Australia
✟119,825.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Didnt it force someone to be saved and be a christian in the first place?

Isnt it the adult that is making the salvation decision for another person ...the infant in the first place?

The bible doesnt support that one person can make another person saved. This takes away free will. Each person has to choose Christ for themselves... an infant cant choose.
Parents make decisions for their infant and young children as a matter of routine so it is not strange for Christian parents to decide to bring their children up within the covenant people of God.
 
Upvote 0

JacksBratt

Searching for Truth
Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
16,282
6,483
62
✟570,626.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Yes, it most certainly does, because salvation was "of the Jews" (John 4:22), and the Jews always circumcised their own children as the rite of initiation into the Life of the people of the Covenant (Genesis 17:10-11). Jesus Christ taught His disciples to Baptize (initiate into) people into His New Covenant, and then to teach them Christ's commandments (Matthew 28:19-20), and so "entire households" (Acts 16:33) were received into the Church this way. How do we know that infants who were baptized were the people of the New Covenant? By their fruit, of course. Holy Martyrs Faith, Hope, and Love were merely 12, 10, and 9 years old when their confessions faith in Christ, which they had been raised in from birth, cost them their lives in this fallen world. How old do you claim a person must be in order to have faith? Are you the person who should get to decide the age for everyone? Who should get to decide besides God, Who say's "Suffer the little children to come unto me, for to such belongs the Kingdom of God"? (Matthew 19:14)
I would really like to see some scripture that indicates that my "household" can be saved by my actions.
 
Upvote 0

JacksBratt

Searching for Truth
Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
16,282
6,483
62
✟570,626.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
God can do something for the infant. God can save the infant through baptism. That's how God saved me.
God will save the infant due to the fact that it is oblivious to it's sin.. It is innocent of any of it's actions.

I certainly hope that you are not relying on your "infant baptism" for your salvation.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Natsumi Lam
Upvote 0

Natsumi Lam

Preparer of the Bride
Supporter
Jan 31, 2015
1,543
682
✟120,306.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Parents make decisions for their infant and young children as a matter of routine so it is not strange for Christian parents to decide to bring their children up within the covenant people of God.
The problem is not the bringing up. It is the idea that we can push salvation on another and this results in salvation.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Well, John the Baptist leapt in the womb of his mother. Just at the sound of Mary's voice, who carried within her Christ.

That's a great answer! I didn't think you'd have one, but how about that! Great job, Garcia Singh! :)

I love being wrong and everyone else being right!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Dec 16, 2011
5,208
2,548
57
Home
Visit site
✟234,667.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Then how does the " church" know for infants?

The bible does not support that one person can choose salvation for another.

Please provide biblical support.
You really ought to listen to the podcast episode that I suggested to you. In it, the speaker explains the practice of Baptism as understood from a knowledgeable reading of Scripture quite well. Because, you see, the Bible really does support that people can and do choose the New Covenant Life and upbringing (i.e teaching them "all that [He] has commanded") for their own children.
 
Upvote 0

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,173
9,191
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,152,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes. Please post verses that support me saving any other person by my actions.
We can't save someone (or rather...well, we can participate in a way: see last verse below) -- only God can save, and we know the way is through Christ....

Before those verses about others working for our benefit (to call on or help bring God's grace) in particular, let's look at what you can do for others in a different way, since infant baptism is a question where we have to infer ideas about.

So, consider whether others can be a part of the process:

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:

“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.”

19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
“I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”

20 And Isaiah boldly says,
“I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”

21 But concerning Israel he says,
“All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. ...
------

Ok, I tend to want to just keep reading, but this helps us notice the really interesting thing that for those old enough to hear the word, during this life, someone has to bring it to them.... Or alternatively, if someone did not bring it to them, still there can be a chance:
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. e It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
--------
Hallelujah.

And we notice in verse 19 He went even to the dead, that they might have a chance to turn and be saved....

So, here in this life, others can indeed be part of the action of God, by His Grace, such as for instance to tell the word of Christ!

-----------

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” (Acts chapter 2)

1 Corinthians 7:16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

But I'd not worry for a child that dies without having been baptized, because consider 1 Peter chapter 3, as above. God will not be blocked by the mere decision of a parent whether to baptize their infant, or the failure to do so. God will decide, in His mercy and Grace, not dependent on us, to save.
 
Upvote 0

Thess

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
756
319
56
Chelan
✟19,864.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
It's one of those threads where you start to get RSI in your fingers by the end, through endless typing and exchanges. Then you put in a prayer request asking people to pray for your fingers.

That is so funny. Except....I don't ask hypocrites to pray for me. :)
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Anthony2019
Upvote 0
Dec 16, 2011
5,208
2,548
57
Home
Visit site
✟234,667.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I would really like to see some scripture that indicates that my "household" can be saved by my actions.
You're talking about others being saved by your actions. We're talking about people being initiated into the Life of the people of the New Covenant, through the rite of Holy Baptism, and then being brought up in the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, as found in the Gospels, which often leads to salvation.
 
Upvote 0

Natsumi Lam

Preparer of the Bride
Supporter
Jan 31, 2015
1,543
682
✟120,306.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
You really ought to listen to the podcast episode that I suggested to you. In it, the speaker explains the practice of Baptism as understood from a knowledgeable reading of Scripture quite well. Because, you see, the Bible really does support that people can and do choose the New Covenant Life and upbringing (i.e teaching them "all that [He] has commanded") for their own children.
The parent can chose the vehical to drive the infant in but cant make him the driver.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Natsumi Lam

Preparer of the Bride
Supporter
Jan 31, 2015
1,543
682
✟120,306.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
You're talking about others being saved by your actions. We're talking about people being initiated into the Life of the people of the New Covenant, through the rite of Holy Baptism, and then being brought up in the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, as found in the Gospels, which often leads to salvation.
I asked people directly if baptism itself saves the infant..they said it does. That is where the problem resides. Chosing salvation for another makes them saved. That is the issue.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0

Ttalkkugjil

Social Pastor
Mar 6, 2019
1,680
908
Suwon
✟34,572.00
Country
Korea, Republic Of
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
God will save the infant due to the fact that it is oblivious to it's sin.. It is innocent of any of it's actions.

I certainly hope that you are not relying on your "infant baptism" for your salvation.

Here I stand. I can do no other.
 
Upvote 0

archer75

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 16, 2016
5,930
4,649
USA
✟253,749.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I asked people directly if baptism itself saves the infant..they said it does.
Who are these people, and how do they understand salvation?

There is a simple rule to follow if you have a child and don't want to baptize it: don't baptize it. I mean this. There is literally no one forcing you to do so. If you truly believe that the practice has been wrong since the beginning...don't do it.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums