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Featured Infant Baptism

Discussion in 'Sacramental/Ordinance Theology' started by Natsumi Lam, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    Can you give scripture please?
     
  2. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    If certain churches had their way.. they would try.
     
  3. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Parents make decisions for their infant and young children as a matter of routine so it is not strange for Christian parents to decide to bring their children up within the covenant people of God.
     
  4. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    I would really like to see some scripture that indicates that my "household" can be saved by my actions.
     
  5. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    Both are forced. One provides nutrition while another a fantasy.
     
  6. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    God will save the infant due to the fact that it is oblivious to it's sin.. It is innocent of any of it's actions.

    I certainly hope that you are not relying on your "infant baptism" for your salvation.
     
  7. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Why do you object to feeding infants?
     
  8. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    The problem is not the bringing up. It is the idea that we can push salvation on another and this results in salvation.
     
  9. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    Really?
     
  10. Thess

    Thess Well-Known Member

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    That's a great answer! I didn't think you'd have one, but how about that! Great job, Garcia Singh! :)

    I love being wrong and everyone else being right!
     
  11. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    You really ought to listen to the podcast episode that I suggested to you. In it, the speaker explains the practice of Baptism as understood from a knowledgeable reading of Scripture quite well. Because, you see, the Bible really does support that people can and do choose the New Covenant Life and upbringing (i.e teaching them "all that [He] has commanded") for their own children.
     
  12. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    We can't save someone (or rather...well, we can participate in a way: see last verse below) -- only God can save, and we know the way is through Christ....

    Before those verses about others working for our benefit (to call on or help bring God's grace) in particular, let's look at what you can do for others in a different way, since infant baptism is a question where we have to infer ideas about.

    So, consider whether others can be a part of the process:

    14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

    16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:

    “Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.”

    19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
    “I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
    I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”

    20 And Isaiah boldly says,
    “I was found by those who did not seek me;
    I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”

    21 But concerning Israel he says,
    “All day long I have held out my hands
    to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

    1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. ...
    ------

    Ok, I tend to want to just keep reading, but this helps us notice the really interesting thing that for those old enough to hear the word, during this life, someone has to bring it to them.... Or alternatively, if someone did not bring it to them, still there can be a chance:
    18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. e It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
    --------
    Hallelujah.

    And we notice in verse 19 He went even to the dead, that they might have a chance to turn and be saved....

    So, here in this life, others can indeed be part of the action of God, by His Grace, such as for instance to tell the word of Christ!

    -----------

    38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” (Acts chapter 2)

    1 Corinthians 7:16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

    But I'd not worry for a child that dies without having been baptized, because consider 1 Peter chapter 3, as above. God will not be blocked by the mere decision of a parent whether to baptize their infant, or the failure to do so. God will decide, in His mercy and Grace, not dependent on us, to save.
     
  13. Thess

    Thess Well-Known Member

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    That is so funny. Except....I don't ask hypocrites to pray for me. :)
     
  14. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    You're talking about others being saved by your actions. We're talking about people being initiated into the Life of the people of the New Covenant, through the rite of Holy Baptism, and then being brought up in the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, as found in the Gospels, which often leads to salvation.
     
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  15. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    The parent can chose the vehical to drive the infant in but cant make him the driver.
     
  16. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Spiritual Director

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    The one that comes most immediately to mind is John 3:16.
     
  17. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    I asked people directly if baptism itself saves the infant..they said it does. That is where the problem resides. Chosing salvation for another makes them saved. That is the issue.
     
  18. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Spiritual Director

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    Here I stand. I can do no other.
     
  19. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Who are these people, and how do they understand salvation?

    There is a simple rule to follow if you have a child and don't want to baptize it: don't baptize it. I mean this. There is literally no one forcing you to do so. If you truly believe that the practice has been wrong since the beginning...don't do it.
     
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  20. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    So free will is out the door because you were baptized? You are saved by anothor person doing works?
     
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