Amillennialism Safe House

[mnorian]

Members who chose to participate in this safe house should believe in amillennialism (see definition below). This thread is for discussing end time events and prophecy (Biblical) from an amillennial point of view. Fellowship posts from all members are welcome.

• This safe house thread is for those members who believe in amillennialism.

• The safe house is for discussion and not for debate. Debate is defined as: "Engaging in argument by discussing opposing points."

• Members who do not believe in amillennialism may post in fellowship only.

• No posts from this safe house may be quoted in other threads or used to start discussion threads in the main Eschatology forum.

Amillennialism: "no millennium", rejects the belief that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. The amillennial viewpoint holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age. This rejection contrasts with premillennial and some postmillennial interpretations of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Thank you!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Welcome to Amillennial Safe House. Please let us know if you are Amillennial regardless of end-time interpretation. And what first topics do you like to discuss?

 

[TribulationSigns]

What does Amillennial mean?

That is a question that many Christians have been asking often. The word millennium is actually from the Latin words [mille], meaning thousand, and [annum], meaning years. In Latin, the article "a" is a negation of any word following it. Thus a-millennial literally means "no millennium," or no thousand years.

In Christian theology, the word is actually a misnomer, because the Amillennarian does in fact believe in the millennial (1000 year) reign of Christ that is prophesied in Scripture. They appreciate that Revelation is a book of imagery, symbols and representations and so see the thousand years is not to be understood as literal, nor that Christ's reign is to be as a physical ruler reigning upon an earthly throne. Rather they believe that the saints' reign with Him on earth Spiritually as ambassadors of a spiritual Kingdom that is situated above as Ephesians 2:6 declares:

Ephesians 2:6

• "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

What does Amillennial mean then? Well, the word amillennial identifies Christians who believe that the thousand year reign spoken of in Revelation chapter 20 is this spiritual reign of Christ's Kingdom that was instituted on earth by His death and resurrection through the Church. The Amillennarian holds that the kingdom of God is not a carnal or a worldly earth bound kingdom, but it is spiritual and is now being extended throughout the world through the preaching of the resurrection in Christ and His Kingdom is the SPirit of Christ in them:

Luke 9:60

• "Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God." and His kingdom is the Spirit of Christ in them.

Luke 17:20

• "The Kingdom of God cometh not by observation"

It is not an earthly kingdom that can be observed, but a Spiritual kingdom where Christ is their King and reigns with them. The Amillennarian (generally speaking) does not believe in a special future salvation plan for National Israel, but rather that Israel is saved the same as any other nation is brought to God. By the faithful promises to the Seed, which is Christ. Their doctrine is not a teaching that the people of Israel have been cast off, but rather that by Israel's fall, the Gentiles have been included among the Jews in God's Covenantal promises

Romans 11:17-18

• "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee."

They do not believe that Christ will set up a future earth bound kingdom, but that Christ has already delivered His people and established a far superior everlasting kingdom:

Colossians 1:13

• "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:"

And that He is presently ruling in that very real kingdom. The amillennialist doctrine is characterized by Christians following Scriptures that declares that the saints indeed have a kingdom and that it is the promised kingdom of Christ. They reject any eschatology that an earthly reign from Jerusalem can fulfill God's prophesy that by definition requires an everlasting reign.

Amillennialists teach that Christ's kingdom is not carnal, that is to say, not of the flesh or of this earth where it is readily observable, but rather is clearly stated to be a spiritual principality, built upon spiritual foundations, a Kingdom that is from above, and not below.

Colossians 3:1-2

• "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek these things which are from above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
• set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."

Though there are objections where some claim the Amillennarian does not take Old Testament and New Testament Scriptures literally, the truth is that they take Scripture both literally and figuratively, depending upon content, warrant, and context provided by its author. The Amillennial doctrine is that the law is being fulfilled very literally in Christ, not in previous Old Testament shadows, figures, and types that merely looked forward to Him. i.e., the prophecy of the coming of Elijah before Christ was fulfilled literally in John the Baptist coming in the Spirit of Elijah:

Luke 1:17
"And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

The prophesied rebuilding and restoration is not of an earthly Sanctuary in the Middle East, but spoke of the Temple where believers are the living stones, with Christ being the chief corner stone of that building. In other words, the prophesied millennial restoration is fulfilled in the administration of the New Testament reign of Christ.

The Amillennarian's high point is their deferring to Scripture in support of all their doctrines, as opposed to using someone's interpretations of Scripture, that is so prevalent in other millennial positions. Amillennialism was the predominant historical Reformed church eschatological position.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Aren't Catholics Amill?
I went from being partial preterist to Amill.......

 

[TribulationSigns]

Aren't Catholics Amill?
I went from being partial preterist to Amill.......

Roman Catholics Church adopted St. Augustine's amillennialism doctrine as its own with an erroneous assumption that their "mother church" is God's only "the Millennial Kingdom" on earth which is obviously false.

And as for all kinds of Preterism and the books of Josephus...

The Bible is ancient literature like no other ancient literature. It's not to be understood or exegeted like the rest, nor can it be evaluated like the rest. It is a unique book in that it is God breathed in every word, and perfectly authoritative truth profitable for instruction.

2nd Timothy 3:16-17

• "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
• That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Josephus is NOT profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness. Even by most historian's own admission, he wasn't an "unbiased" man in his writings. No extra-biblical writing is authoritative or profitable for interpreting God's Word. So is this man who we want deciding how we interpret God's Word concerning the church and the Second Coming? Guess what? I DO NOT THINK SO! If we get our interpretations from him, we have gotten a "private extra-biblical interpretation" of man and not from God. Period! If we get our interpretation from God's Word alone,then we have gotten it from God.

Genesis 40:8

• "And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you."

Interpretations belong to God, not Josephus. Case closed. And the only way to get them from God, is to get them from His Word. Not Josephus based on world history or battle for Jersualem in 70AD on YouTube. That's about as clear as it can get. What is our divine authority on understanding prophesy? God's word or man's evaluations?

Before the first Advent of Christ the Old Testament thoroughly furnished men with truth unto all good works. The combined Old and New Testaments thoroughly furnishes the saints today unto all good works. We don't need the non-christian historians to tell us about how 70 AD is fulfilling anything, we have the Word of God to tell us how things are fulfilled. Let us hear it speak. The Bible is not to be interpreted by secular writers, historical findings, the views of Josephus, historical records, or cute youtube videos using with some video game soldiers to determine battlefield to fill in the "so-called" gaps. God is not a God that leaves gaps to be filled in by men who are not even Christian. Interpretations belong to God, not secular writers and historians.

• The Bible is it's own Interpreter
• The Bible is it's own Dictionary
• The Bible is it's own Historical Record

That is to say, only the mind of God can explain/interpret what God meant when He said something in parables (Genesis 40:8; 41:16) or had written the books of Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel, or Matthew. He does that by His Spirit, through His Holy Word, not through archaeologists or carnal writers. We have a sound mind in interpreting "by" having the testimony of the Word of God alone as our proofs of what we are suggesting is true. When God says prove all things, He's not talking about asking secular writers or Godless historians.

I, as historical amillennialist, who won't blindly follow Dispensationalist, reformed, Catholic, or evangelical leaders, choosing instead to faithfully follow the 'actual' word of the Living god itself. I am sure this torments many, even some of you, to no end, however, their torment is not going to keep me from witnessing to the testimony of Christ. To claim that amillennial view are systematized by Origen of Alexandra or St Augustine are untrue.

It generally comes from a very reasoned and sound interpretation of the Bible, by the Bible, rather than by traditions, fables, televangelists and the genealogical dreams of men. Most people want an earthly kingdom, they'll get one, but it's a kingdom constructed and ruled by men.

John 18:36

• "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

Amillennialism in its truest form is God's very clear declarations that His Son's kingdom is not of this world, that Satan was bound at the cross, that God is no respecter of persons, that a Jew is not one outwardly but inwardly, that the New Covenant with Israel is with all His servants and that the Israel of God is anyone brought out of spiritual Egypt by His Beloved Son. All things that are found in Scripture, that it is not needful to be systematized by Origen of Alexandria or Augustine, because they were scribed on the pages of the Bible as I often said here:

Matthew 21:43

• "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Since the physical Kingdom wasn't taken from Israel and given to a righteous people physically to reign in, then by all rational thought and idiom, it has to be a spiritual Kingdom.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Roman Catholics Church adopted St. Augustine's amillennialism doctrine as its own with an erroneous assumption that their "mother church" is God's only "the Millennial Kingdom" on earth which is obviously false.

And as for all kinds of Preterism and the books of Josephus...

The Bible is ancient literature like no other ancient literature. It's not to be understood or exegeted like the rest, nor can it be evaluated like the rest. It is a unique book in that it is God breathed in every word, and perfectly authoritative truth profitable for instruction.

2nd Timothy 3:16-17

• "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
• That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Josephus is NOT profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction in righteousness. Even by most historian's own admission, he wasn't an "unbiased" man in his writings. No extra-biblical writing is authoritative or profitable for interpreting God's Word. So is this man who we want deciding how we interpret God's Word concerning the church and the Second Coming? Guess what? I DO NOT THINK SO! If we get our interpretations from him, we have gotten a "private extra-biblical interpretation" of man and not from God. Period! If we get our interpretation from God's Word alone,then we have gotten it from God.

Genesis 40:8

• "And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you."

Interpretations belong to God, not Josephus. Case closed. And the only way to get them from God, is to get them from His Word. Not Josephus based on world history or battle for Jersualem in 70AD on YouTube. That's about as clear as it can get. What is our divine authority on understanding prophesy? God's word or man's evaluations?

Before the first Advent of Christ the Old Testament thoroughly furnished men with truth unto all good works. The combined Old and New Testaments thoroughly furnishes the saints today unto all good works. We don't need the non-christian historians to tell us about how 70 AD is fulfilling anything, we have the Word of God to tell us how things are fulfilled. Let us hear it speak. The Bible is not to be interpreted by secular writers, historical findings, the views of Josephus, historical records, or cute youtube videos using with some video game soldiers to determine battlefield to fill in the "so-called" gaps. God is not a God that leaves gaps to be filled in by men who are not even Christian. Interpretations belong to God, not secular writers and historians.

• The Bible is it's own Interpreter
• The Bible is it's own Dictionary
• The Bible is it's own Historical Record

That is to say, only the mind of God can explain/interpret what God meant when He said something in parables (Genesis 40:8; 41:16) or had written the books of Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel, or Matthew. He does that by His Spirit, through His Holy Word, not through archaeologists or carnal writers. We have a sound mind in interpreting "by" having the testimony of the Word of God alone as our proofs of what we are suggesting is true. When God says prove all things, He's not talking about asking secular writers or Godless historians.

I, as historical amillennialist, who won't blindly follow Dispensationalist, reformed, Catholic, or evangelical leaders, choosing instead to faithfully follow the 'actual' word of the Living god itself. I am sure this torments many, even some of you, to no end, however, their torment is not going to keep me from witnessing to the testimony of Christ. To claim that amillennial view are systematized by Origen of Alexandra or St Augustine are untrue.

It generally comes from a very reasoned and sound interpretation of the Bible, by the Bible, rather than by traditions, fables, televangelists and the genealogical dreams of men. Most people want an earthly kingdom, they'll get one, but it's a kingdom constructed and ruled by men.

John 18:36

• "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

Amillennialism in its truest form is God's very clear declarations that His Son's kingdom is not of this world, that Satan was bound at the cross, that God is no respecter of persons, that a Jew is not one outwardly but inwardly, that the New Covenant with Israel is with all His servants and that the Israel of God is anyone brought out of spiritual Egypt by His Beloved Son. All things that are found in Scripture, that it is not needful to be systematized by Origen of Alexandria or Augustine, because they were scribed on the pages of the Bible as I often said here:

Matthew 21:43

• "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Since the physical Kingdom wasn't taken from Israel and given to a righteous people physically to reign in, then by all rational thought and idiom, it has to be a spiritual Kingdom.

Very informative post!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Very informative post!

Thank you

 

[FireDragon76]

I guess this doctrine isn't very popular here, which is not really surprising. Dispensationalism has made deep inroads in American Evangelicalism

Lutheran confessions reject chiliastic interpretations of prophecy, meaning we are basically amill or interpret it in spiritual terms only.

Aren't Catholics Amill?
I went from being partial preterist to Amill.......

Yes, they are.

I don't think preterism and amillenialism are necessarily incompatible, since they are dealing with separate matters of prophecy. Though preterists will tend to be amillenialists, of course.

 

[brinny]

Aren't Catholics Amill?
I went from being partial preterist to Amill.......

You did? You have surprised me amigo.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You did? You have surprised me amigo.

Judging on Little Lamb's posts here, I believe he is FULL Preterism. Not amillennialist.

 

[brinny]

I'm Amillennial simply because the book of Revelation is self-explanatory, especially regarding the "Day of he Lord" and Christ returning. He is not going to "set up shop" and take an earthly throne and sit on it, and "rule" a fallen world for a thousand years.

What happens AFTER the thousand years?

Does He RETURN to heaven and then re-emerge to do as it is written in Revelation?

If so, what was the purpose of the thousand year reign?

It makes no sense.

 

[brinny]

Judging on Little Lamb's posts here, I believe he is FULL Preterism. Not amillennialist.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yep!

 

[brinny]

Yep!

LOL!

Don't drag Snoopy into da confusion.

 

[TribulationSigns]

LOL!

Don't drag Snoopy into da confusion.

Nah, Snoopy agreed with me.

Actually, I'm building a case on LL's doctrine for administration review.

 

[brinny]

Nah, Snoopy agreed with me.

Nah, he's just agreeable.

 

[mkgal1]

Judging on Little Lamb's posts here, I believe he is FULL Preterism. Not amillennialist.

That's one reason why we shouldn't judge, and instead, should listen and get to know a person and their ideas.

You may wish to read up and get your definitions clear - AND be sure you've come across truly heretical posts - before you go judging and accusing others.

Just because a person disagrees with you doesn't mean they are wrong (or are violating any rules here). This is a discussion board - and as far as I'm concerned, one of the greatest things about a discussion board is that we are exposed to ideas/beliefs/perspectives that are different than ours (and we can compare those different ideas to our own to come up with what we truly believe). It does us no good to live in an echo chamber, where all we are exposed to are our own thoughts and ideas.

 

[One Son]

Rev.21:1(KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Jn.3:27 John(the baptist) answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. 28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.



Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
(2Cor.5:21).

 

[Christian Gedge]

I use the handle, 'Realised Amillennialism' and Kim Riddlebarger is my favorite author on things Amill.

I also have elements of 'Historicism' in my interpretation because it is hard to accept the part-Pret assertion that only the 2nd coming is awaiting fulfillment. As I understand the prophets, some things were (and are to be) fulfilled beween AD 70 and the Parousia.

That's me in a nutshell.