Can women talk about Jesus and the gospel?

[~Zao~]

The fact remains that women are supposed to subject themselves to God's Men as their authority in the church, and that is not only the Apostle Paul's own policy, but God's Law. It is sinful for women to try and be spiritual authority over men in God's Church, but it's what women naturally want according to the flesh ever since God said "Your desire shall be for the man".

And it was said to Cain that should he submit to evil it would have dominion over him. Evil is at the door and it’s desire is to you.

 

[Paidiske]

The verb hagiazō which @Paidiske referred to means to santify. Sanctification is the result of salvation.

That's one meaning of the word. But it has other meanings as well. One can use that verb of inanimate objects, for example, where salvation is clearly not in question.

And folks, I've just woken up and read through the last several pages, and while I'm not moderating this thread, I'd suggest you knock it off with the personal comments or some other moderator is likely to have to get involved.

 

[Romans 8]

Don't you believe that God can call anyone he wishes to proclaim his word?

I assume so given that He used a donkey to speak through. But we aren't including donkeys in the hierarchical order of the church. At least not the one I frequent.

Jesus has called us all to go into the world, witness to him and make disciples; do you really think that doesn't apply to women?
What of all those who've been converted, accepted Christ and are now serving him because a woman told them the Gospel - are they invalid Christians?

Sounds fine to me, I don't think anyone is debating that.

 

[JackRT]

Jack, I don't think you were in the other thread on this topic, but I explained some of the agendas in it and am frankly tired of arguing the point with effeminates.
@Daniel C has courteously offered some information on nefarious feminist roots which you've turned a blind eye too in your own emotional state. Maybe the feminists are right and a very small percentage of men really are women inside and vice versa. Jack if you're the type to prance around your house in a dress and high heels, I would bet that you are in the aforementioned category

Ah hominem duly noted.

 

[JackRT]

Point being, I actually think you are the one generalising when you started to claim that patriarchs caused problems

I never ever said that patriarchs were cruel. What I was trying to say that patriarchy as a dominant social institution was evil in that regarded half the human race as less worthy than the other half of the human race.

... and feminism wasn't cruel.

I have never met a cruel feminist.

Many of the high ranking feminists were cruel and promoted damaging ideas and some still do, so let's just keep that in mind.

Like any other social movement, there are degrees of feminism and there are some who have tried to seize centre stage who certainly do not represent mainstream feminism any more than the Westboro Baptist Church represents mainstream Christianity.

 

[Albion]

NO. It's not just Paul's own policy. Scriptures say "as says also the Law" (1 Corinthians 14:34). It's God's order of spiritual authority for men to lead women and women be in subjection to men.

But Paul is still offering a personal opinion about that and doing so for the reason I explained before.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Hi guys
1 Timothy 2:11-15 says women should be quiet.

Does it mean that women can't write books about christ or women can't have a youtube channel about bible teachings?

Thanks

This post I made might help

Womens roles in the church

 

[~Zao~]

And it was said to Cain that should he submit to evil it would have dominion over him. Evil is at the door and it’s desire is to you.

As example of what the Lord had to say against those who call evil good and good evil, it all comes down to interpretation. (plus motive)

 

[Strong in Him]

None of your examples show Paul (or any of the Apostles) allowing women to "teach, preach, or exercise authority". Sharing the Gospel and Preaching are not the same thing.

No, not exactly.

But if you are taking 1 Timothy 2:12 literally - which some seem to be - women should not even speak, never mind teach.
But Priscilla taught Apollos. And sharing the Gospel involves an element of teaching - i.e explaining that someone is a sinner, showing the relevant Bible verses, explaining how God sent Jesus, and maybe even leading them in prayer.
The woman at the well did this on a basic level, without the Bible verses, when she went back to her town and said "come and see ...... could this be the Messiah?" Mary Magdalene did this when she went into a roomful of men, told them the news of the resurrection and gave them a further message.
The OT prophetesses did this when people consulted them and they said "this is what the Lord says".

1 Timothy 2:12 does not say that a woman can't preach, and there is no verse that says that they cannot be ordained. A number of people arguing against female ordination use this verse to "prove" it. But as soon as it is pointed out that if women have to be silent in church then it means no praying or prophesying, as Paul allowed in 1 Corinthians 11, they seem to argue against that.

If anyone take this verse literally and does not allow their wives/mothers/sisters/daughters/girlfriends to even say "amen" in church, never mind sing or read the Scriptures; I admire your consistency. But it would be wrong to insist that one part of it is taken literally but not the other - i.e to allow women speak so they can pray and worship, and yet say that the Bible forbids women from teaching.

 

[Sparagmos]

Hi, just catching up on this thread. I think moral leadership is somewhat incorporated into the spiritual leadership, since God gave us the law. But I agree that both head of the household and the pastor serves in this leadership role.

He was referring to my phrase. I didn’t mean a leader of morality, I meant a leader who is moral. Meaning ministers and spiritual leaders are selected because they have shown themselves to be wise and moral. They are considered more so than the average person, and therefore equipped to lead. Husbands aren’t especially moral or wise, they are just men. Authority should always be earned.

 

[Strong in Him]

I assume so given that He used a donkey to speak through. But we aren't including donkeys in the hierarchical order of the church. At least not the one I frequent.

The point is the same; the Lord can speak through anyone, or anything, he wishes. It is his word; people are only vessels.

Sounds fine to me, I don't think anyone is debating that.

They are if they're taking 1 Tim 2:12 literally and insisting that women can't teach.
Sharing the Gospel involves teaching.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

And it was said to Cain that should he submit to evil it would have dominion over him. Evil is at the door and it’s desire is to you.

And Jesus said Cain was of his father the Devil. That's why he slew his brother. But I am not a child of Satan. I am a child of God. You have put yourself in the place of God and tried to make me out to be a child of Satan. But I teach the things of God and you rebel against it, just like Eve did. You're a prime example of why I don't get my spiritual instruction from women. You misuse Scripture.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

But Paul is still offering a personal opinion about that and doing so for the reason I explained before.

His "personal opinion" as you call it, agrees with God Will. Or do you think Paul came up with this policy on his own?

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

No, not exactly.

But if you are taking 1 Timothy 2:12 literally - which some seem to be - women should not even speak, never mind teach.
But Priscilla taught Apollos. And sharing the Gospel involves an element of teaching - i.e explaining that someone is a sinner, showing the relevant Bible verses, explaining how God sent Jesus, and maybe even leading them in prayer.
The woman at the well did this on a basic level, without the Bible verses, when she went back to her town and said "come and see ...... could this be the Messiah?" Mary Magdalene did this when she went into a roomful of men, told them the news of the resurrection and gave them a further message.
The OT prophetesses did this when people consulted them and they said "this is what the Lord says".

1 Timothy 2:12 does not say that a woman can't preach, and there is no verse that says that they cannot be ordained. A number of people arguing against female ordination use this verse to "prove" it. But as soon as it is pointed out that if women have to be silent in church then it means no praying or prophesying, as Paul allowed in 1 Corinthians 11, they seem to argue against that.

If anyone take this verse literally and does not allow their wives/mothers/sisters/daughters/girlfriends to even say "amen" in church, never mind sing or read the Scriptures; I admire your consistency. But it would be wrong to insist that one part of it is taken literally but not the other - i.e to allow women speak so they can pray and worship, and yet say that the Bible forbids women from teaching.

You are missing the whole point of the Scriptures, which is women being subject to their male authority in Church. It's not about being noiseless. It's about who has spiritual authority and who is responsible for Church leadership in the sight of God. God's will is that women be subject to Godly men of God in church. It is also God's will that men be subject to Christ Jesus in the Church, just as it was God's Will for Jesus to be subject to the Father, and God honors obedience to these things. Do you agree with this Truth? Yes or No.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

As example of what the Lord had to say against those who call evil good and good evil, it all comes down to interpretation. (plus motive)

And yours is wrong. That's why women can't have authority in Church. Because Satan deceives their interpretation of Scripture and tries to lead men to disobey God. I'm teaching Paul's teaching which is God's Will and you are calling it "evil" while making yourself out to be good. You're a prime example of why God doesn't give spiritual authority to women over the men of God.

 

[LoveofTruth]

But Paul is still offering a personal opinion about that and doing so for the reason I explained before.

In 1 Cor 14 Paul is not offering his personal opinion he said specifically there he wrote the “commandments of the Lord”. Not his personal opinion or the cultures of men.This is a serious issue not to be taken lightl.

1 Corinthians 14:34-38 “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.36. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.38. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.”

 

[LoveofTruth]

As example of what the Lord had to say against those who call evil good and good evil, it all comes down to interpretation. (plus motive)

This may help, a post I wrote about this topic

Womens roles in the church

 

[Strong in Him]

You are missing the whole point of the Scriptures, which is women being subject to their male authority in Church.

But this isn't taught.

It's not about being noiseless.

No, but the verse says silence and if you are taking that verse of Scripture literally, that is what you must do and/or insist on. It would be wrong to say that one part of the verse applies but not the other.

It's about who has spiritual authority and who is responsible for Church leadership in the sight of God. God's will is that women be subject to Godly men of God in church.

If it is, and if this is so important then, why didn't Jesus teach it?
When he said, "I will build my church", Matthew 16:18, why did he not give precise instructions about leadership, different roles and say "oh, and don't let women anywhere near the place"? He could have easily done so and made it crystal clear.
Instead he did a lot to elevate women - he allowed them to speak for him, to be a witness for him, to sit at his feet and learn. He healed and forgave them - and reminded people that God made both men and women.

It is also God's will that men be subject to Christ Jesus in the Church,

It is God's will that we ALL submit to Jesus and declare him as Lord.

Do you agree with this Truth? Yes or No.

No, because it's not a truth.
God is calling, has always called and probably always will call women to preach and be Ministers. He does not go against his word. I would guess your response to that might be "no, he doesn't go against his word so you are wrong about being called." Not at all. I have been called - as have others - and the reason God IS calling us is because there is nothing in his word which forbids it or says otherwise.

You said women should submit - God called Deborah to be judge over the whole nation and men came to her for advice. He called Huldah to be a prophetess, and the male priests had no problem about going to ask her for a word from the Lord. Women helped Paul to preach the Gospel and he commended them for doing so.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The context is DURING CHURCH WORSHIP. See 1 Corinthians 14:34 for a parallel scripture reference.
It's not wrong for women to write books or have a Youtube channel, but only weak, cowardly, carnal men put themselves under a women's spiritual authority and get their spiritual teaching from a women when they are supposed to get it directly from the Spirit of Christ. When my AoG church put a young lady pastor in the pulpit, I had to leave the service. God wouldn't let me stay under that. God has ordered the Church in this order GOD-CHRIST-MEN-WOMEN-CHILDREN in regards to Spiritual authority and responsibility. God used women to proclaim the Gospel, Prophesy, Judge, and fight war, but not to interpret Scripture, teach doctrine, preach or exercise spiritual disciplinary authority over the men of God. It's out of God's order.

This article I posted might help

Womens roles in the church

 

[Albion]

His "personal opinion" as you call it, agrees with God Will. Or do you think Paul came up with this policy on his own?

The point was that while the Bible is the inspired word of God, some things in it are reports or observations, not directions given to us.

For example, Catholics try to prove Purgatory based upon a verse in Maccabees in which some Jews prayed for their departed brethren that they might be loosed from their sins. Leaving aside the question of whether or not that book actually is part of the Bible, there is nothing about the verse that says the approach taken by those Jews is correct; its just that this is what they did.

For another example, consider what John writes in the Book of Revelation. People often take literally every last item found therein, yet he begins by saying "I saw..." (because it was a vision), not "the Lord revealed" or "God commanded that..." or "It is our bounden duty" or anything of that sort.

The statements made by Paul that are under scrutiny in this thread are explicitly identified by him as being of this sort as well.

"But I permit not a woman to teach, nor…." (1 Timothy 2:12)