Can women talk about Jesus and the gospel?

[ChicanaRose]

Not moral leader. The pastor is a spiritual leader. And the man of the house also serves as the spiritual leader.

Hi, just catching up on this thread. I think moral leadership is somewhat incorporated into the spiritual leadership, since God gave us the law. But I agree that both head of the household and the pastor serves in this leadership role.

 

[Romans 8]

Hi, just catching up on this thread. I think moral leadership is somewhat incorporated into the spiritual leadership, since God gave us the law. But I agree that both head of the household and the pastor serves in this leadership role.

Yes you're both correct. I just meant to accentuate the Spiritual aspect which I do believe is a higher level of conduct. But it's still unclear to me how the dynamics play out. Maybe someone in the know can contribute but this thread is a bit lifeless.

 

[Paidiske]

Spiritual leadership is multi-faceted. Part of it is inspirational; helping people to grasp God's vision for humanity and work together to be effective in mission and ministry. Part of it is correctional; helping people to see the things which hold them back, and work to overcome them.

A big part of the shift, I think, is in paying attention to corporate realities (how things play out in communities, group dynamics etc) rather than just what's going on for individuals.

I don't know if that's what you mean about how the dynamics play out?

 

[Dave-W]

In a family scenario, the children are under the parents in their salvation.

I seriously have to take issue with this.That is NOT how the New Covenant works. It is "opt in," meaning that each individual must make their OWN decision to join it.

 

[Romans 8]

I seriously have to take issue with this.That is NOT how the New Covenant works. It is "opt in," meaning that each individual must make their OWN decision to join it.

Since you're convinced in your own mind, maybe you shed some light on these passages? It's not so cut and dry. The verb hagiazō which @Paidiske referred to means to santify. Sanctification is the result of salvation. Below is Strong's definition:

ἁγιάζω hagiázō, hag-ee-ad'-zo; from G40; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate:—hallow, be holy, sanctify.

1Co 7:13 If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him.

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

1Co 7:16 For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Could it be that this was only in effect during that time when the gospel was first being taught? Maybe. But it's being taught today.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Well I'm following God and his elect not masculinism. Paul had an appearance experience with Christ, ordaining him an apostle.Pauls early evangelism laid the foundation for the christian church. Paul says women should be silent and have no authority over men.

Peter is arguably the leader of the apostles if the Gospels are accurate and he proclaims woman the 'weaker vessel' to men.

Two of the highest ranking men of Christ condemn women as preachers. So this is not my discriminatory opinion, this is the work of God.

Deny him at your own peril.

"Deny him" - did Jesus condemn women as pastors?

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

I've read all the bible and no part of it supports women preaching over men.

Romans was written by Paul and Paul wrote Corinthians, ' women should be silent and have no authority over men'.

I think you are just being argumentative.

The women of Paul's time weren't ready to preach. For generations they had kept from worshipping with men at the Temple. The message for all time isn't, "Don't let women preach," but rather, "Don't let those who are unprepared preach."

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

I seriously have to take issue with this.That is NOT how the New Covenant works. It is "opt in," meaning that each individual must make their OWN decision to join it.

I'm in and I didn't make my own decision.

 

[Dave-W]

Since you're convinced in your own mind, maybe you shed some light on these passages? It's not so cut and dry. The verb hagiazō which @Paidiske referred to means to santify. Sanctification is the result of salvation. Below is Strong's definition:

ἁγιάζω hagiázō, hag-ee-ad'-zo; from G40; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate:—hallow, be holy, sanctify.

Perhaps you are over reading it.

Paul was a Pharisee and trained under the best Torah scholar of the day: Gamaliel the great, grandson of Rabbi Hillel. Those who entered such schools as Beit Hillel started at about age 5. As such, his thinking would have been thoroughly immersed in what we call Biblical Hebrew instead of Greek. So the word you REALLY need to be looking at is Kadosh.

 

[Romans 8]

Perhaps you are over reading it.

Paul was a Pharisee and trained under the best Torah scholar of the day: Gamaliel the great, grandson of Rabbi Hillel. Those who entered such schools as Beit Hillel started at about age 5. As such, his thinking would have been thoroughly immersed in what we call Biblical Hebrew instead of Greek. So the word you REALLY need to be looking at is Kadosh.

With all due respect, I believe that the Holy Spirit was speaking through the apostles and therefore the Bible itself is inspired by God. I do appreciate your input however, God bless.

 

[Romans 8]

Which is why God appointed Deborah to be judge of all Israel, I suppose.
Women were not created to be subordinate, but to be companions for men.



No.
I know men who are incapable of leading. And to say that women are more prone to deceit, implies that we were made that way - that God made us with a flaw.



Isaiah 3:12 is a proof text which is often quoted to "prove" a point.
In fact, a king was ruling the country at the time. A king who had a harem, and possibly many wives, and was letting them influence him. Ahab was also influenced by a woman - because he had disobeyed God's law and married someone from outside Israel; someone who worshipped other gods and tried to impose idol worship on Israel. The fault was with the men who were weak and disobedient. When GOD calls and raises up a woman to do something, the outcome is different.
If people - both men and women - don't remain loyal and obedient to God, they can be led astray by anyone.

I had to edit my last post because it's true to what Genesis teaches. I admit that I as well can be influenced by today's feminist corruption and can second guess the message in attempts not to offend.

 

[JackRT]

I had to edit my last post because it's true to what Genesis teaches. I admit that I as well can be influenced by today's feminist corruption and can second guess the message in attempts not to offend.

It is true that a tiny fraction of feminists can be extreme but "corrupt" is a far too strong a word particularly when there have been many centuries of toxic patriarchy.
Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law. If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

 

[~Zao~]

It is true that a tiny fraction of feminists can be extreme but "corrupt" is a far too strong a word particularly when there have been many centuries of toxic patriarchy.
Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law. If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

That sounds orthodox for many indulgences due.

Actually indulgences were offered in the early church for acts of kindness or charity. Usually it was things like helping someone work their field or build a home. Then much later it began to become abused in exchange for tithes.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That sounds orthodox for many indulgences due.

The earliest church teachings are Orthodox

 

[~Zao~]

The earliest church teachings are Orthodox

Amen

 

[Daniel C]

It is true that a tiny fraction of feminists can be extreme but "corrupt" is a far too strong a word particularly when there have been many centuries of toxic patriarchy.
Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law. If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Feminists like Margaret sanger got infanticide legalised and had a pretty negative view toward black people. These are the people who created feminism,so I wouldn't be too quick to praise them.I think she was very open about her opinions and goals.

Let's look at some:


3. "We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population..."
-- Letter to Dr. Clarence J. Gamble, December 10, 1939, p. 2
https://libex.smith.edu/omeka/...

4. “I accepted an invitation to talk to the women's branch of the Ku Klux Klan... I was escorted to the platform, was introduced, and began to speak...In the end, through simple illustrations I believed I had accomplished my purpose. A dozen invitations to speak to similar groups were proffered.”
-- Margaret Sanger, An Autobiography, published in 1938, p. 366


Link to full quotes here. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw0bxRhD46FWeMogZNMdH-R7&cshid=1555008571516


This is your history feminism.

 

[FireDragon76]

Since you're convinced in your own mind, maybe you shed some light on these passages? It's not so cut and dry. The verb hagiazō which @Paidiske referred to means to santify. Sanctification is the result of salvation. Below is Strong's definition:

ἁγιάζω hagiázō, hag-ee-ad'-zo; from G40; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate:—hallow, be holy, sanctify.

1Co 7:13 If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him.

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

1Co 7:16 For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Could it be that this was only in effect during that time when the gospel was first being taught? Maybe. But it's being taught today.

The use of the term "unclean" should clue you in that he's not speaking of salvation in a forensic sense, as being justified.

 

[FireDragon76]

"Deny him" - did Jesus condemn women as pastors?

The first apostle after Easter was actually a woman. Indeed, she was called "the apostle to the apostles" at various times in Church history. It seems to me if he really thought women were incapable of preaching the Good News, he would not have chosen to tell a woman to go and send that news in the first place.

 

[FireDragon76]

Of course they can. They simply should not have recognized positions of authority or teaching in the Church.

What about the fact more women are declared doctors in the Catholic Church than men?

 

[Strong in Him]

This is your history feminism.

Why are you assuming, or even stating, that women who preach the Gospel - as Mary Magdalene and the woman at the well did - are feminists?
Don't you believe that God can call anyone he wishes to proclaim his word?

Jesus has called us all to go into the world, witness to him and make disciples; do you really think that doesn't apply to women?
What of all those who've been converted, accepted Christ and are now serving him because a woman told them the Gospel - are they invalid Christians?