"THIS GENERATION" in Bible

Which "generation" and what people is Jesus referring to in Olivet Discourse

  • Just the Gentiles in 1st century

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parousia70

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So it's victorious for Christianity when the country has plunged into immorality that is on the rise?
The sixties brought the drug revolution, hippy generation, free love; the seventies brought legalized abortion (60 million to date) that has blossomed to selling baby parts, partial birth abortions and now infanticide after birth. VICTORY???
This country was founded a Christian nation and now has been infiltrated with false religions, hedonism, humanism, etc. The universities have turned from Chrisitan Ivy League schools in the early 19th century to liberal anti-god institutions teaching the TOE and spreading socialist. Anti -American ideas. VICTORY???
Marriage was from the beginning of time between a man and a woman and now Gay Marriage is legal. VICTORY?
The liberals war against the words: "In God We Trust" and seek to remove any Biblical scriptures, the Ten Commandments or Nativity scenes from all government buildings. OBAMA gets up there and claims this is not a Chrisitian nation, to appease Muslims and allows a terrorist funding organization like CAIR to set up camp in the US. And now we have Ms. OMAR, a MUSLIM in Congress who is anti-Semitic and anti-American taking her oath with her hand on the Quran. VICTORY?
Look at what is on TV now compared to 50 years ago, most everything is filthy, R-rated. VICTORY?
FINALLY, Jesus second coming is suppose to defeat evil, remove sin from the planet, lock Satan and his demons up in the Abyss - THAT DID NOT HAPPEN! Satan is still causing havoc, tempting, seeking to destroy God's people. Sure, he can't touch us, but he sure is behind the evil in the world. Jesus will bring peace and that is the point - we have never seen world peace because we aren't able to defeat sin and remove it from the world.
VICTORY?? Can you actually read through Revelation chapters 6-22 and say these things happened already and claim they meant something symbolically different than there literal meaning?
I'm looking for a more complete victory that will wipe out out sin, cast Satan, his demons, death and Hades into the Lake of Fire and be destroyed forever. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO A NEW IMMORTAL BODY, ETERNAL PEACE, A NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH _ THAT'S VICTORY.


Thanks for proving my point about the Fearful Spies and Joshua, and driving it home with a sledgehammer.
As you have clearly illustrated above, Futurists like you are the spies who always fearfully say "there are giants in the land! we'll never win, we must turn away and not fight!", While, in stark contrast, we Preterists are the JOSHUAS who say "THE LAND IS OURS! LET'S TAKE IT. God has given the land to US!"

The fearful Spies were wrong, Joshua was right.

Jesus second coming is suppose to defeat evil, remove sin from the planet, lock Satan and his demons up in the Abyss - THAT DID NOT HAPPEN! Satan is still causing havoc, tempting, seeking to destroy God's people. Sure, he can't touch us, but he sure is behind the evil in the world. Jesus will bring peace and that is the point - we have never seen world peace because we aren't able to defeat sin and remove it from the world.

So you are claiming that one day, via the 2nd coming, even the unrepentant Christ Rejectors will enjoy Victory over Sin and the Devil?

Where is that taught?
 
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Ronald

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Thanks for proving my point about the Fearful Spies and Joshua, and driving it home with a sledgehammer.
As you have clearly illustrated above, Futurists like you are the spies who always fearfully say "there are giants in the land! we'll never win, we must turn away and not fight!", While, in stark contrast, we Preterists are the JOSHUAS who say "THE LAND IS OURS! LET'S TAKE IT. God has given the land to US!"

The fearful Spies were wrong, Joshua was right.



So you are claiming that one day, via the 2nd coming, even the unrepentant Christ Rejectors will enjoy Victory over Sin and the Devil?

Where is that taught?
Joshua smoshua ... This is not the promised land. That was in the OT past, land promised to Israel, a specific land with specific boundaries.
Judgment Day separates the sheep from the goats. Those who are Christians will be saved - This includes a remnant Jewish population that will see Christ and believe (Rom. 11). All other unbelievers will be destroyed. There are serious events in Revelation causing over half the population to be killed, most likely 2/3. We have 2.42 billion Christians who currently claim faith in Christ - that's about 1/3..
 
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parousia70

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Joshua smoshua ... This is not the promised land. That was in the OT past, land promised to Israel, a specific land with specific boundaries.

Joshua Smoshua?
Wow... that really illustrates the divide.

How about our Hebrew 11 Brothers and Sisters who subdued Kingdoms and established righteousness?
Are we not to be like them?

Again, I reject your notion that Christians and Christianity are/is weak and destined to Fail in its mission. Such is the opposite of Apostolic teaching.

Judgment Day separates the sheep from the goats. Those who are Christians will be saved - This includes a remnant Jewish population that will see Christ and believe (Rom. 11). All other unbelievers will be destroyed. There are serious events in Revelation causing over half the population to be killed, most likely 2/3. We have 2.42 billion Christians who currently claim faith in Christ - that's about 1/3..

And the Millennium in your view?
Doesn't that 1000 year span take place between the 2nd coming and The Sheep/Goat Judgment?
Is it your claim it will be Populated only with Christians in Immortal resurrected Bodies?

Or are you Amil?
 
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Ronald

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Joshua Smoshua?
Wow... that really illustrates the divide.

How about our Hebrew 11 Brothers and Sisters who subdued Kingdoms and established righteousness?
Are we not to be like them?

Again, I reject your notion that Christians and Christianity are/is weak and destined to Fail in its mission. Such is the opposite of Apostolic teaching.



And the Millennium in your view?
Doesn't that 1000 year span take place between the 2nd coming and The Sheep/Goat Judgment?
Is it your claim it will be Populated only with Christians in Immortal resurrected Bodies?

Or are you Amil?
Your twisting what I said. I gave an assessment of the state if our current sinful world. I DID NOT SAY CHRISTIANS ARE WEAK. The gospel is being spread and as far as I can see, God is right on schedule with close to 1/3 of the planet Christians. It is Him that does the work and gets the credit. It is in Christ, that the body can fulfill His purpose perfectly. I have every confidence in that BUT I also interpret eschatilogy differently. Judgment day is coming and on His agenda.
*** Where in scripture does it have your scenario where Christianity over time spreads to transform the entire planet???
As for the Millennial Kingdom. There are two judgments, one during the Great Tribulation and then one after the 1000 years. The Bible calls this the second death. It distinguishes the two in Rev. 20:5, 6
As for our new eternal bodies, we will enjoy paradise. Here is where the information about this time period is not so detailed.
There are difference teachings on this topic. I will give you my take that you won't accept anyways, but here it is:
" Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first Ressurection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests if God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him 1000 years" Rev. 20:6 Why don't you take this literally? We will have been resurrected with new bodies and will be priest s with Christ Who will rule on earth physically.
Yet, we will not procreate with these new bodies but children are born during this time? So who has them? Isaiah 65:20 tells us there will be child born in the Millennial Kingdom. Who? If all Christians are resurrected at the last trumpet ( which I believe is #7), then unbelievers are left behind to suffer destruction. WAIT. All eyes see Him when He returns and they mourn. Well, we won't be mourning so who? Rom. 11 tells us God will remove the blindness from a remnant 1/3 of the Jewish population during this GT.
In Rev. 7 & 14 we see the 144,000 virgin male Jews who are marked. I am sure there will be an adequate amount of female virgins among the remnant Jewish population, and this population will repopulate the earth. Given children born during this time will not be saved unless they receive Christ, their numbers will increase and so at the end of 1000 years, Satan is once again released to tempt and deceive these ( which by then may amount to tens of millions). Then judgment, the second death/ resurrection.
See all wrapped up on a neat package for you.:preach:
 
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parousia70

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Your twisting what I said. I gave an assessment of the state if our current sinful world. I DID NOT SAY CHRISTIANS ARE WEAK. The gospel is being spread and as far as I can see, God is right on schedule with close to 1/3 of the planet Christians. It is Him that does the work and gets the credit. It is in Christ, that the body can fulfill His purpose perfectly. I have every confidence in that BUT I also interpret eschatilogy differently. Judgment day is coming and I'm His agenda.
*** Where in scripture does it have your scenario where Christianity over time spreads to transform the entire planet???
As for the Millennial Kingdom. There are two judgments, one duri,g the Great Tribulation and then one after the 1000 years. The Bible calls this the second death. It distinguishes the two in Rev. 20:5, 6
As for our new eternal bodies, we will enjoy paradise. Here is where the information about this time period is not so detailed.
There would be difference of teachings on this topic. I will give you my take that you won't accept anyways, but here it is:
" Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first Ressurection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests if God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him 1000 years" Rev. 20:6 Why don't you take this literally? We will have been resurrected with new bodies and will be priest s with Christ Who will rule on earth physically.
Yet, we will not procreate with these new bodies but children are born during this time? So who has them? Isaiah 65:20 tells us there will be child born in the Millennial Kingdom. Who? If all Christians are resurrected at the last trumpet ( which I believe is #7), then unbelievers are left behind to suffer destruction. WAIT. All eyes see Him when He returns and they mourn. Well, we won't be mourning so who? Rom. 11 tells us God will remove the blindness from a remnant 1/3 of the Jewish population during this GT.
In Rev. 7 & 14 we see the 144,000 virgin male Jews who are marked. I am sure there will be an adequate amount of female virgins among the remnant Jewish population, and this population will repopulate the earth. Given children born during this time will not be saved unless they receive Christ, their numbers will increase and so at the end of 1000 years, Satan is once again released to tempt and deceive these ( which by then may amount to tens of millions). Then judgment, the second death/ resurrection.
See all wrapped up on a neat package for you.:preach:
A lot of missing pieces in your supposedly neatly wrapped package... first of all you said at the time of the 2nd coming sin is removed from the earth, but now you say unsaved people continue to be born? Are these unsaved people born sinless and live sinless lives??
If so why would they need saving?
Salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ is only available to SINNERS.
In fact ONLY Sinners get saved.

Please reconcile theses two polar opposite claims.


Next you say Isaiah 65 describes the millennium but Isaiah says it is the new Heavens and earth time period he is describing there.

Again please reconcile these two polar opposite positions?
Was Isaiah wrong and you are right?

Given that choice between who’s claim is correct, yours or Isaiah’s, my money is on Isaiah being right and you being wrong.
But I’ll listen to any evidence you might have that proves Isaiah was wrong and you are correct.
Whatcha got?

As far as scripture supporting the unending spread of the everlasting gospel, there are several, but we’ll start with the scriptural term “everlasting gospel” itself, which should settle the debate right here.
The SOLE PURPOSE of the Everlasting Gospel is to be preached to sinners on earth and call them to salvation.

Any purported “end” to this one and only purpose of the gospel is directly contradictory to its “everlasting” status.

Also, there’s Ephesians 3:21, which I don’t believe is fake news.
Do you?
 
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Erik Nelson

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The battle at Armageddon. Revelation 16:14+
I come as a thief.jpeg
 
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Erik Nelson

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Revelation 16 = Armageddon = 2 Peter 3
||
70ad = "come as a thief"
||
Jesus COMES in power spiritually to Church forevermore, having defeated the forces who crucified him

having COME ALREADY in Revelation 16-18, in judgement against "Babylon"...

then the Church, as the body of Christ on earth, defeats the "Beast"...

then the Church, as the body of Christ on earth, reigns for a thousand years...

then the Church, as the body of Christ on earth, struggles against "Gog and Magog"...

leading to GWTJ

PAROUSIA = REVELATION 16

Christ is mystically present on earth through the Church as his body on earth "like Voltron"

Christ's Church defeats the "beast", reigns for the Millennium, struggles with "Gog and Magog"...

and endures through to the GWTJ

Church, surviving the tribulation of the Neronian persecution, WAS the Parousia, Christ came back through his "Voltron" body on earth the Church
 
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Ronald

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first of all you said at the time of the 2nd coming sin is removed from the earth, but now you say unsaved people continue to be born? Are these unsaved people born sinless and live sinless lives??
If so why would they need saving?
Salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ is only available to SINNERS.
In fact ONLY Sinners get saved.
Satan and his horde are locked up during this time. Sin has been removed from earth (temporarily for 1000 years), then Satan is once again released to tempt those who do not believe in Christ. Christ is reigning on the planet yet some rebel when this happens. That isn't hard to believe since Christ was present performing miracles before and people did not believe. The Bible does not say that this period of time is totally sinless, however, with Christ and with the New Covenant, we are under Grace, not the Law of Sin. This 1000 years is a time of peace and harmony.
So when Satan is released those who have been born unsaved (if they had not truly believed in their King during their lives), will be tested.

Next you say Isaiah 65 describes the millennium but Isaiah says it is the new Heavens and earth time period he is describing there.
It is a New Earth, not physically but spiritually. An environment without Satan, sin and evil is quite different - new - wouldn't you say?
Besides, if people die (vs.20: "he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed"),
rational and logical sense would dictate to you THAT THIS IS NOT ETERNAL LIFE THAT THEY ARE LIVING. THEREFORE, THE SECOND DEATH/RESURRECTION HAS NOT COME.
After the second death, all live eternally.


Given that choice between who’s claim is correct, yours or Isaiah’s, my money is on Isaiah being right and you being wrong.
But I’ll listen to any evidence you might have that proves Isaiah was wrong and you are correct.
Whatcha got?
You would gamble money on God's Word? Shame on you! You lack wisdom and understanding - it's evident! Isaiah is neither right nor wrong. He was a man, a prophet, who wrote down God's word. They are not Isaiah's words based on his views. Isaiah 65 begins with Jesus saying, "I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, 'Here am I, her am I'." Jesus is the I am, Who came before Abraham. He is the one who spoke to Moses in the burning bush. Ex.3:14


As far as scripture supporting the unending spread of the everlasting gospel, there are several, but we’ll start with the scriptural term “everlasting gospel” itself, which should settle the debate right here.
The SOLE PURPOSE of the Everlasting Gospel is to be preached to sinners on earth and call them to salvation.
So in an eternal heaven, the gospel will be still preached? Really? Will we need forgiveness, mercy, hope? Since the gospel is the good news, the LIGHT that shines in the darkness, why would we need that in heaven, when there will not be darkness. I'm sure we'll remember what things used to be like, otherwise what would be the point if He erased those memories.
When you study that word "everlasting" from the Greek word aionios, you'll also discover that it has variable meanings. When it is applied to a temporal realm, it means generation(s), lifetime(s), epoch, age(s), etc. So the correct understanding should reflect a temporal time, age-during, age-lasting. When aionios is applied to God or His domain or our salvation, it refers to a infinite/eternal existence.

Also, there’s Ephesians 3:21, which I don’t believe is fake news.
Do you?
"to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen." NASB

Jesus is glorified forever .... and? Does that mean the gospel will be preached in heaven, as if it needed?

Whatchu got Parousia70?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Revelation 16 = Armageddon = 2 Peter 3
||
70ad = "come as a thief"
Jesus COMES in power spiritually to Church forevermore, having defeated the forces who crucified him
having COME ALREADY in Revelation 16-18, in judgement against "Babylon"...
then the Church, as the body of Christ on earth, defeats the "Beast"...
then the Church, as the body of Christ on earth, reigns for a thousand years...
then the Church, as the body of Christ on earth, struggles against "Gog and Magog"...
leading to GWTJ

PAROUSIA = REVELATION 16
Christ is mystically present on earth through the Church as his body on earth "like Voltron"
Christ's Church defeats the "beast", reigns for the Millennium, struggles with "Gog and Magog"...
and endures through to the GWTJ
Church, surviving the tribulation of the Neronian persecution, WAS the Parousia, Christ came back through his "Voltron" body on earth the Church
Great post Erik!
One reason it was difficult harmonizing Matthew 24 with Luke is that a lot of what is in Matt 24 is in other chapters of Luke, same event.....
[A concordance is actually useful in finding these similar verses.]
Here is just 1 example of many. [Mark's Gospel never mentions the word "thief"]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:43
“But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
Luke 12:39
“But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
John 10:10
“The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.
I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

2 Methew 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Revelation 3:3
“Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast! and repent!.
Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

According to Josephus, it literally came upon Jerusalem as a stealth thief and it happened quickly!

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history.
"
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Vespasian, after proceeding as far as Jericho, returned to Caesarea, in order to make preparation for his grand attempt against Jerusalem. While he was thus employed, he received intelligence of the death of Nero ; whereupon, not knowing what the will of the future emperor might be, he prudently resolved to suspend, for the present, the execution of his design.
Thus the Almighty gave the Jews a second respite, which continued nearly two years ; but they repented not of their crimes, neither were they in the least degree reclaimed, but rather proceeded to acts of still greater enormity. The flame of civil dissension again burst out........

The dead bodies of priests and worshipers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts. John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength.

At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance. A ceaseless cry of combatants was heard day and night, and yet the lamentations of mourners were still more dreadful. The consternation and terror which now prevailed induced many inhabitants to desire that a foreign foe might come, and effect their deliverance.

Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves
, and encamped before Jerusalem ; but, alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord : "When ye see (he had said to his disciples) the abomination of desolation, spoken or by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place, [11] and Jerusalem surrounded by armies (or camps,) then let those who are in the midst of Jerusalem depart, and let not those who are in the country enter into her," for " then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." Matt. xxiv. 15, 21 ; Luke xxi. 20, 1-11. These armies, we do not hesitate to affirm were those of the Romans, who now invested the city.

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover

Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth " (Matt. xxiv. 27, and Luke xxi 35,) but justifying, also, his friendly direction, that those who fled from the place should use the utmost possible expedition.
==========================
Revelation 1:1
An-un-veiling of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bond-servants of Him, which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written,
That the Time is nigh<1451>.

Revelation 22:6

And said to me: "These the Words Faithful and True. And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy Prophets commissions the messenger of Him to show to the bond-servants of Him
which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 22:10
And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this.
That the Time/Season is nigh<1451>
================================

.......................................
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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    • *
      Just the Jews of the 1st Century
      5 vote(s)
      31.3%
    • Both Jews and Gentiles of 1st century
      1 vote(s)
      6.3%
    • Just the Gentiles in 1st century
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
    • I am not sure but am willing to learn
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%

Voting as of today: 04/12/2019

Option #1 has almost a 3 to 1 lead over option #2......Nice to see.

Which "generation" and what people is Jesus referring to in Olivet Discourse

  1. *
    Just the Jews of the 1st Century
    8 vote(s)
    36.4%
  2. Both Jews and Gentiles of 1st century
    3 vote(s)
    13.6%
  3. Just the Gentiles in 1st century
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. The whole world
    2 vote(s)
    9.1%
  5. I am not sure but am willing to learn
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Other [please explain]
    9 vote(s)
    40.9%
 
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Erik Nelson

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Great post Erik!
One reason it was difficult harmonizing Matthew 24 with Luke is that a lot of what is in Matt 24 are in other chapters of Luke, same event.....
[A concordance is actually useful in finding these similar verses.]
Here is just 1 example of many. [Mark's Gospel never mentions the word "thief"]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:43
“But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
Luke 12:39
“But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
John 10:10
“The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.
I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

2 Methew 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Revelation 3:3
“Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast! and repent!.
Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

According to Josephus, it literally came upon Jerusalem as a stealth thief and it happened quickly!

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history.
"
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Vespasian, after proceeding as far as Jericho, returned to Caesarea, in order to make preparation for his grand attempt against Jerusalem. While he was thus employed, he received intelligence of the death of Nero ; whereupon, not knowing what the will of the future emperor might be, he prudently resolved to suspend, for the present, the execution of his design.
Thus the Almighty gave the Jews a second respite, which continued nearly two years ; but they repented not of their crimes, neither were they in the least degree reclaimed, but rather proceeded to acts of still greater enormity. The flame of civil dissension again burst out........

The dead bodies of priests and worshipers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts. John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength.

At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance. A ceaseless cry of combatants was heard day and night, and yet the lamentations of mourners were still more dreadful. The consternation and terror which now prevailed induced many inhabitants to desire that a foreign foe might come, and effect their deliverance.

Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves
, and encamped before Jerusalem ; but, alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord : "When ye see (he had said to his disciples) the abomination of desolation, spoken or by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place, [11] and Jerusalem surrounded by armies (or camps,) then let those who are in the midst of Jerusalem depart, and let not those who are in the country enter into her," for " then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." Matt. xxiv. 15, 21 ; Luke xxi. 20, 1-11. These armies, we do not hesitate to affirm were those of the Romans, who now invested the city.

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover

Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth " (Matt. xxiv. 27, and Luke xxi 35,) but justifying, also, his friendly direction, that those who fled from the place should use the utmost possible expedition.
==========================
Revelation 1:1
An-un-veiling of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bond-servants of Him, which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written,
That the Time is nigh<1451>.

Revelation 22:6

And said to me: "These the Words Faithful and True. And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy Prophets commissions the messenger of Him to show to the bond-servants of Him
which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 22:10
And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this.
That the Time/Season is nigh<1451>
================================

.......................................
I think it may be worthwhile to try to empathize and visualize what life was like for the Christians of the 7 churches who received revelation. They had been being persecuted by First Century Non Christian Jews. Many of those Jews left town to visit Jerusalem for Passover. And they never came back. So the first century Christians who had been being persecuted. Saw empty houses. They saw gods vindication of them against their persecutors with their own eyes.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Great post Erik!
One reason it was difficult harmonizing Matthew 24 with Luke is that a lot of what is in Matt 24 are in other chapters of Luke, same event.....
[A concordance is actually useful in finding these similar verses.]
Here is just 1 example of many. [Mark's Gospel never mentions the word "thief"]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:43
“But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
Luke 12:39
“But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
John 10:10
“The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.
I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

2 Methew 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Revelation 3:3
“Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast! and repent!.
Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

According to Josephus, it literally came upon Jerusalem as a stealth thief and it happened quickly!

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history.
"
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Vespasian, after proceeding as far as Jericho, returned to Caesarea, in order to make preparation for his grand attempt against Jerusalem. While he was thus employed, he received intelligence of the death of Nero ; whereupon, not knowing what the will of the future emperor might be, he prudently resolved to suspend, for the present, the execution of his design.
Thus the Almighty gave the Jews a second respite, which continued nearly two years ; but they repented not of their crimes, neither were they in the least degree reclaimed, but rather proceeded to acts of still greater enormity. The flame of civil dissension again burst out........

The dead bodies of priests and worshipers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts. John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength.

At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance. A ceaseless cry of combatants was heard day and night, and yet the lamentations of mourners were still more dreadful. The consternation and terror which now prevailed induced many inhabitants to desire that a foreign foe might come, and effect their deliverance.

Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves
, and encamped before Jerusalem ; but, alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord : "When ye see (he had said to his disciples) the abomination of desolation, spoken or by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place, [11] and Jerusalem surrounded by armies (or camps,) then let those who are in the midst of Jerusalem depart, and let not those who are in the country enter into her," for " then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." Matt. xxiv. 15, 21 ; Luke xxi. 20, 1-11. These armies, we do not hesitate to affirm were those of the Romans, who now invested the city.

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover

Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth " (Matt. xxiv. 27, and Luke xxi 35,) but justifying, also, his friendly direction, that those who fled from the place should use the utmost possible expedition.
==========================
Revelation 1:1
An-un-veiling of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bond-servants of Him, which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written,
That the Time is nigh<1451>.

Revelation 22:6

And said to me: "These the Words Faithful and True. And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy Prophets commissions the messenger of Him to show to the bond-servants of Him
which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 22:10
And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this.
That the Time/Season is nigh<1451>
================================

.......................................
Babylon was spiritually sodom. After. The Christians fled To pella. And incidentally after Rabbi Johanan ben Zakkai fled from the city also. Then spiritual Sodom fell. As if there were no longer even 10 Righteous people in the city. Per genesis 19
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The idea that Jesus was speaking just to those with Him on the Mount of Olives is a Preterist agenda of men's doctrines. And that is a doctrine that will lead one to the pit.

It should be easy to understand the passage Jesus spoke is for the whole Church, even to this present day, because He was speaking of the day of His 2nd coming:.......................
All I can say to that is: ^_^
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I think it may be worthwhile to try to empathize and visualize what life was like for the Christians of the 7 churches who received revelation. They had been being persecuted by First Century Non Christian Jews. Many of those Jews left town to visit Jerusalem for Passover. And they never came back. So the first century Christians who had been being persecuted. Saw empty houses. They saw gods vindication of them against their persecutors with their own eyes.
LittleLambofJesus said:
Great post Erik!
One reason it was difficult harmonizing Matthew 24 with Luke is that a lot of what is in Matt 24 are in other chapters of Luke, same event.....
[A concordance is actually useful in finding these similar verses.]
Here is just 1 example of many. [Mark's Gospel never mentions the word "thief"]
Babylon was spiritually sodom. After. The Christians fled To pella. And incidentally after Rabbi Johanan ben Zakkai fled from the city also. Then spiritual Sodom fell. As if there were no longer even 10 Righteous people in the city. Per genesis 19
Good info Erik..........

Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


Our Lord adds "pestilences" likewise. Pestilence treads upon the heels of famine, it may therefore reasonably be presumed, that this terrible scourge accompanied the famines which have just been enumerated. History, however, particularly distinguishes two instances of this calamity, which occurred before the commencement of the Jewish war.

The first took place at Babylon about A. D. 40, and raged so alarmingly, that great multitudes of Jews fled from that city to Seleucia for safety, as hath been hinted already.

The other happened at Rome A.D. 65
, and carried off prodigious multitudes. Both Tacitus and Suetonius also record, that similar calamities prevailed, during this period, in various parts of the Roman empire.

After Jerusalem was surrounded by the army of Titus, pestilential diseases soon made their appearance there to aggravate the miseries, and deepen the horrors of the siege. They were partly occasioned by the immense multitudes which were crowded together in the city, partly by the putrid effluvia which arose from the unburied dead, and partly from spread of famine.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Chapter before the great 70AD Jerusalem/Temple discourse concerning "that generation"....

Matthew 23:
1 Then Jesus spake to the multitudes, and to his disciples, 2saying, ‘On the seat of Moses sat down the scribes and the Pharisees

34‘Because of this, lo, I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes, and of them ye will kill and crucify, and of them ye will scourge in your synagogues, and will pursue from city to city; 35that on you may come all the righteous blood being poured out on the earth from the blood of Abel the righteous, unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar: 36verily I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.
37‘Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that art killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto thee, how often did I will to gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her own chickens under the wings, and ye did not will. 38Lo, left desolate to you is your house; 39for I say to you, ye may not see me henceforth, till ye may say, Blessed [is] he who is coming in the name of the Lord.’
Luke 13:31-35)

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19
Rev 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.

Revelation 19:
1 After these I hear as a great sound of a vast throng in the heaven, saying,
"HalleluYah! the salvation and the glory and the honor, and the power of our God; 2 That true and righteous His judgings, that He judges the great harlot who corrupts the earth in Her whoredom,
and avenges<1556> the blood of His bond-servants out of Her hand".
3 And a second time they have declared<4483> "HalleluYah! and the smoke of Her is ascending into the ages of the ages!"

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory.
There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection. Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain ; but the soldiers, equally void of pity and remorse, slew even the sick and the aged. The robbers and seditious were all punished with death : the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome. After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves, or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ; whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale..................

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings. Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished !
 
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The battle at Armageddon. Revelation 16:14+
View attachment 254531
Fulfilled in the 1st century Jewish Wars culminating in the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem.

"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse
<4430> may be, there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<4863>

Luke 17:37
And answering they are saying to Him, "Where Lord"? The yet He said to them, "the-where the carcass<4983>, there also the eagles/vultures/aetoi <105> shall be being together gathered/sun-acqhsontai <4863> (5701)" [Deuternonmy 28:25]

Revelation 19
17 And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered<4863>! into the Supper<1173> of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......[Zeph 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]

Ezekiel 39:
12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD.
17 " And thou son of adam, thus He says my Lord Yahweh, say thou! to bird of every wing, and to all of beast of the field: 'be assembled/06908 qabats ye! and come ye! together/0622 'acaph ye from round about on sacrifice of Me which I sacrificing for ye, a great Sacrifice on Mountains of Israel, and ye eat flesh and ye drink blood.
18 Flesh of mighty-ones ye shall eat, and blood of princes of the Land ye shall drink.....[Revelation 19:17-18]
==================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived...........

....Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance.................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. ......
================
 
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The HARD FACT remains, that almost every detail of both the battle described in Ezekiel 38 and 39 and the battle described in Revelation 16, is MATERIALLY different from anything that can be found in the records of what happened in A.D. 70 or thereabouts.
 
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Fulfilled in the 1st century Jewish Wars culminating in the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem.

"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse
<4430> may be, there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<4863>

Luke 17:37
And answering they are saying to Him, "Where Lord"? The yet He said to them, "the-where the carcass<4983>, there also the eagles/vultures/aetoi <105> shall be being together gathered/sun-acqhsontai <4863> (5701)" [Deuternonmy 28:25]

Revelation 19
17 And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered<4863>! into the Supper<1173> of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......[Zeph 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]

Ezekiel 39:
12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD.
17 " And thou son of adam, thus He says my Lord Yahweh, say thou! to bird of every wing, and to all of beast of the field: 'be assembled/06908 qabats ye! and come ye! together/0622 'acaph ye from round about on sacrifice of Me which I sacrificing for ye, a great Sacrifice on Mountains of Israel, and ye eat flesh and ye drink blood.
18 Flesh of mighty-ones ye shall eat, and blood of princes of the Land ye shall drink.....[Revelation 19:17-18]
==================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived...........

....Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance.................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. ......
================
virtuous heavenly woman saved by EAGLES wings
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The Jews of today no longer have to "this generation" when looking at the verses below, Rather now they can say "that generation".
Much like the Jews were "futurist" before 70AD, now Jewish Christians can classify themselves as Preterists, as in fulfilled for them. It is both logical and biblical.......

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)


Mat 11:16
“But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions,
Mat 12:41
“The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Mat 12:42
“The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.
Mat 23:36
“Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Mat 24:34
“Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Mar 8:12
But He sighed deeply in His spirit, and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation.”
Mar 13:30
“Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Luk 7:31
And the Lord said,[fn] “To what then shall I liken the men of this generation, and what are they like?
Luk 11:30
“For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation.
Luk 11:31
“The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.
Luk 11:32
“The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Luk 11:50
“that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,
Luk 11:51
“from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.
Luk 17:25
“But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
Luk 21:32
“Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.
 
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The idea that Jesus was speaking just to those with Him on the Mount of Olives is a Preterist agenda of men's doctrines. And that is a doctrine that will lead one to the pit.

It should be easy to understand the passage Jesus spoke is for the whole Church, even to this present day, because He was speaking of the day of His 2nd coming:

Matt 24:32-37
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

KJV

See those events in bold blue? That's about the day of Jesus' 2nd coming. That is the generation He is pointing to in that, because what generation will 'see' His coming??? Can you answer that question using common sense little children, or must you listen to charlatans who seek to change the simplicity that is God's Holy Writ?
Jipsah said:
Of course, Everybody Knows that before our Lord answered that question, He turned away from those who has asked it and faced the camera, because the answer was meaningless to those who had asked it, and would continue to be so for thousands of years. Right.
Yep, anyone who doesn't subscribe to Lindseyite eschatology is going to hell.
Secuse me, but wasn't He crucified, died, was buried, and then rose from the dead after He said those things? Or is that just an insignificant detail?
How long is that "generation" gonna be?
Let's look up some comments on that.....

Forty Years and the Meaning of ‘Generation’


The day in (Ge 2:17) is the day of the holy blessed God (i.e. a thousand years), and therefore the first Adam did not perfect, or fill up his day, for there wanted seventy years of it: and it is a notion that prevails with them, that the days of the Messiah will be a thousand years – John Gill


  • 2006: Levi Chazen, Forty Years – We also find in the case of the punishment of stripes that the Torah teaches us: “Forty shall you strike him, he shall not increase.” Again, forty as a punishment for a person’s sins.
Numbers 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

John Lightfoot:

  • II. The world to come, hints two things especially (of which see Rambam): 1. The times of the Messias: “Be mindful of the day wherein thou camest out of Egypt, all the days of thy life. The wise men say, By ‘the days of thy life,’ is intimated ‘this world’: by ‘all the days of thy life,’ the days of the Messias are superinduced.” In sense the apostle seems to speak, Hebrews 2:5 and 6:5. 2. The state after death, The world to come is, when a man is departed out of this world.
  • “The Jews speaks of divers ominous things that occurred fourty years before the destruction of the City; As it is a tradition that fourty years before the Sanctuary was destroyed the Western Lamp went out, and the scarlet list kept its redness, and the Lords lot came up on the left hand. And they locked up the Temple doors at even, yet when they rose in the morning they found them open. Jerus. in Joma fol.43.col.3. And, Sanhedr. fol.18.col.1. Fourty years before the Temple was destroyed, power of judging in capital matters was taken away from Israel: Now there are some that reckon but thirty eight years between the death of Christ and the destruction of the City; and if that be so, then these ominous presages occurred this year that we are upon. It being just fourty years, by that account, from this Passover at which Christ healeth the diseased man at Bethesda, to the time of Titus his pitching him Camp and siege about Jerusalem, which was at Passover.” (Works, 1st. Ed., Vol. 1; Harmony, p. 21)
 
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