"THIS GENERATION" in Bible

[Erik Nelson]

Like I have pointed out in the past, not sure if you saw those posts, the coming in Matthew 24:30 is after the trib of those days. If one concludes the trib of those days involved the judgment in 70 AD, still no way to connect the coming in Matthew 24:30 with that judgment since that coming would be post the judgment in 70 AD. Notice the chronology of events below.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The chronology is abundantly clear. First there is the trib of those days. Followed by shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. Followed by then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven. Followed by they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


If the trib of those days involved the judgment in 70 AD, it is impossible, according to the text, for this coming to have involved the judgment in 70 AD.

The tribulation of those days, was the terrible 3 and a half years. of the beginning of the Jewish Roman war. From 66 to 70ad

this is very clear from the Angels explanation to Daniel in the rest of the chapter:

Daniel 7:23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it... [= Pagan Roman Empire]


Daniel 7:24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. [ = Caesar Augustus Tiberias Caligula Claudius Nero Galba Otho Vitellius Vespasian, who defeated Galba Otho Vitellius ]


Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.[ = 3 and a half year siege and conquest of Jerusalem, 66 to 70AD]

This is further proved by the allusion to Isaiah 13:10, a judgement against Babylon, interpreted spiritually as first century apostate Jerusalem. Per revelation 11:8. And Revelation 18.

Luke writing to Gentiles ignorant of the Old Testament spells, it out. When Jerusalem is surrounded by Roman armies. Its Desolation is near. That's alluding to Daniel 9:26. Which is also about the same 3 and a half year period? The same half of a 7. As referenced in Daniel 7. It all connects and points to the destruction of the physical temple in 70.

 

[Ronald]

Note: You are able to change your vote in this poll.

I would like to primarily focus on the phrase "this generation" that is used in the Bible.

I want to post verses just from the Olivet Discourse and discuss them 1st.

The phrase uses 3 greek words instead of 2:

The generation, this-one.

h genea auth

Here are the verses using the transliterated greek:

Matthew 24:34
Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be passing-away the generation, this-one, till ever all these may be becoming.
amhn legw umin ou mh parelqh h genea auth
ewV an panta tauta genhtai

Mark 13:30
Amen I am saying to ye not no may be passing-away the generation, this-one unto of which any these all may be becoming
amhn legw umin oti ou mh parelqh h genea auth
mecriV ou panta tauta genhtai

Luke 21:32
“Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be passing-away the generation , this-one, till ever all things may be becoming.
amhn legw umin oti ou mh parelqh h genea auth
ewV an panta genhtai

As for Matthew 24:34, 35;
In this passage, "This generation" can possibly mean this Christian generation which includes all generations from then until the end times fullness of the Gentiles comes since some of the events in 70 AD are included. In Matthew 1, it opens up with "the generation of Jesus Christ" beginning with Abraham through David's line and ending with Jesus which includes 42 generations. However, the disciples Jesus was speaking to passed away and since the context of these verses pertains to His second coming, He must have been referring to a future generation.
Many believe that we are the generation this scripture is talking about. Since 1948, one generation (according to Psalm 90:10) is 70-80 years. I expected something to happen by 2018 and much has. the stage is being set. On the books and ordered by the UN, Israel became a nation in 1948 BUT Arab nations continued to war against Israel through the next year until all ratifications were finalized on July 20, 1949. But again, one generation can be 80 years if you are strong. So we wait a little while longer. I need a new body soon!

 

[Berean Tim]

Note: You are able to change your vote in this poll.

I would like to primarily focus on the phrase "this generation" that is used in the Bible.

I want to post verses just from the Olivet Discourse and discuss them 1st.

The phrase uses 3 greek words instead of 2:

The generation, this-one.

h genea auth

Here are the verses using the transliterated greek:

Matthew 24:34
Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be passing-away the generation, this-one, till ever all these may be becoming.
amhn legw umin ou mh parelqh h genea auth
ewV an panta tauta genhtai

Mark 13:30
Amen I am saying to ye not no may be passing-away the generation, this-one unto of which any these all may be becoming
amhn legw umin oti ou mh parelqh h genea auth
mecriV ou panta tauta genhtai

Luke 21:32
“Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be passing-away the generation , this-one, till ever all things may be becoming.
amhn legw umin oti ou mh parelqh h genea auth
ewV an panta genhtai

32“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away

Jesus state when you see all these things. Didn't happen in 70 AD

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The "sign of the son of man in heaven" and Jesus coming to gather his elect didn't happen in 70 AD

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The tribulation of those days, was the terrible 3 and a half years. of the beginning of the Jewish Roman war. From 66 to 70ad

this is very clear from the Angels explanation to Daniel in the rest of the chapter:

Luke writing to Gentiles ignorant of the Old Testament spells, it out. When Jerusalem is surrounded by Roman armies. Its Desolation is near. That's alluding to Daniel 9:26. Which is also about the same 3 and a half year period? The same half of a 7. As referenced in Daniel 7. It all connects and points to the destruction of the physical temple in 70.

Great post and I agree.

Could the 42 months represent the "times of the gentiles" shown in Revelation 11:2 and Luke 21:24?

Luke and Revelation go together like white on rice...............

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>, without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations/Gentiles
and the holy City they shall be treading<3961> forty two months.

Luke 21:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon Thee, and Thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege work<5482> to Thee and shall be encompassing<4033> Thee, and pressing Thee every which place.
=========================
This site has the most extensive studies on Josephus and the 70 ad destruction of Jerusalem I have even seen.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/timeline_military/
“..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history.”

TRACKING THE FIRST JEWISH REVOLT FROM A
MILITARY POINT OF VIEW
WITH ILLUSTRATIONS

The Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus
Government | Factions | Geography | Military | Theology

MARCH, A.D. 66 – JERUSALEM
The Final Days of the Jewish Commonwealth ; Halley’s Comet Closest Approach; Anarchy Erupts; More Christians Flee

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves -- are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance.......

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins...........

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat, pining with hunger, on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus, which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that, "as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed, it was but fit that its priests should parish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.
=================================

................................

................................

 

[Erik Nelson]

Great post and I agree.

Could the 42 months represent the "times of the gentiles" shown in Revelation 11:2 and Luke 21:24?

Luke and Revelation go together like white on rice...............

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>, without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations/Gentiles
and the holy City they shall be treading<3961> forty two months.

Luke 21:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon Thee, and Thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege work<5482> to Thee and shall be encompassing<4033> Thee, and pressing Thee every which place.
=========================
This site has the most extensive studies on Josephus and the 70 ad destruction of Jerusalem I have even seen.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/timeline_military/
“..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history.”

TRACKING THE FIRST JEWISH REVOLT FROM A
MILITARY POINT OF VIEW
WITH ILLUSTRATIONS

The Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus
Government | Factions | Geography | Military | Theology

MARCH, A.D. 66 – JERUSALEM
The Final Days of the Jewish Commonwealth ; Halley’s Comet Closest Approach; Anarchy Erupts; More Christians Flee

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves -- are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance.......

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins...........

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat, pining with hunger, on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus, which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that, "as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed, it was but fit that its priests should parish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.
=================================

................................

................................

I would agree although perhaps "times of the Gentiles fulfilled" Would run all the way from 70ad until modern times, the 20th century? Jerusalem was occupied by Gentiles all that while.

 

[Erik Nelson]

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The "sign of the son of man in heaven" and Jesus coming to gather his elect didn't happen in 70 AD

Matthew 24:29+ =
Isaiah 13:10 =
judgement versus Babylon =
revelation 18 =
Jerusalem = revelation 11:8 = 70ad

 

[Berean Tim]

Matthew 24:29+ =
Isaiah 13:10 =
judgement versus Babylon =
revelation 18 =
Jerusalem = revelation 11:8 = 70ad

If Isaiah 13 and Revelation 18 is Jerusalem 70 AD then it should never be inhabited again that’s clear from both passages. Revelation 11 seems to me to be two men. They prophesy 1260 days and then lie dead for 3.5 days before they're resurrection. Matthew 24:29 to 31 is a gathering that everyone sees.

Please note the “time stamps” of Isaiah 13:6 and 22

22Hyenasf will cry in its towers,
and jackals in the pleasant palaces;
its time is close at hand
and its days will not be prolonged.



6Wail, for the day of the LORD is near;
as destruction from the Almightyc it will come!

 

[Erik Nelson]

If Isaiah 13 and Revelation 18 is Jerusalem 70 AD then it should never be inhabited again that’s clear from both passages. Revelation 11 seems to me to be two men. They prophesy 1260 days and then lie dead for 3.5 days before they're resurrection. Matthew 24:29 to 31 is a gathering that everyone sees.

Please note the “time stamps” of Isaiah 13:6 and 22

22Hyenasf will cry in its towers,
and jackals in the pleasant palaces;
its time is close at hand
and its days will not be prolonged.



6Wail, for the day of the LORD is near;
as destruction from the Almightyc it will come!

Jerusalem did lay desolate for decades, per Josephus.

time, times, and half a time = 3.5 years = 1260 days

= Daniel 7, Daniel 9, Daniel 12, Revelation 11, etc.

all the same event

 

[Erik Nelson]

Great post and I agree.

Could the 42 months represent the "times of the gentiles" shown in Revelation 11:2 and Luke 21:24?

Luke and Revelation go together like white on rice...............

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>, without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations/Gentiles
and the holy City they shall be treading<3961> forty two months.

Luke 21:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon Thee, and Thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege work<5482> to Thee and shall be encompassing<4033> Thee, and pressing Thee every which place.
=========================
This site has the most extensive studies on Josephus and the 70 ad destruction of Jerusalem I have even seen.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/timeline_military/
“..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history.”

TRACKING THE FIRST JEWISH REVOLT FROM A
MILITARY POINT OF VIEW
WITH ILLUSTRATIONS

The Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus
Government | Factions | Geography | Military | Theology

MARCH, A.D. 66 – JERUSALEM
The Final Days of the Jewish Commonwealth ; Halley’s Comet Closest Approach; Anarchy Erupts; More Christians Flee

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves -- are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance.......

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins...........

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat, pining with hunger, on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus, which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that, "as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed, it was but fit that its priests should parish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.
=================================

................................

................................

episodes 44-48 so far

 

[parousia70]

As for Matthew 24:34, 35;
In this passage, "This generation" can possibly mean this Christian generation which includes all generations from then until the end times fullness of the Gentiles comes since some of the events in 70 AD are included.

And the sky could possibly be yellow and the sun could possibly be blue...

In Matthew 1, it opens up with "the generation of Jesus Christ" beginning with Abraham through David's line and ending with Jesus which includes 42 generations.

The math doesn't lie.
A single generation in the passage above is approx 41 years.

However, the disciples Jesus was speaking to passed away and since the context of these verses pertains to His second coming, He must have been referring to a future generation.

I don't find circular reasoning very compelling. I'm surprised anyone does.

Your argument boils down to:
"It couldn't have happened back then because I don't think it happened back then"

Many believe that we are the generation this scripture is talking about.

ALL Christians since the 2nd century believed THEY were the terminal generation Jesus spoke of.

Every last one of them.
And you know what they ALL had in common?
100% failure rate

How could they ALL have been so wrong but you are convinced we today are right?

Since 1948, one generation (according to Psalm 90:10) is 70-80 years.

Psalm 90:10 does not discuss a generation, rather it discusses the average lifespan of a single human.

You provided a much more detailed scripture in Matthew above showing one generation is 41 years... which harmonizes with other scriptures that actually mention a generation, unlike Pslam 90:10 which does not.
Scriptures such as:
Psalm 95:10
Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:

and
Numbers 32:13
And the Lord'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the Lord, was consumed.

But again, one generation can be 80 years if you are strong. So we wait a little while longer.

You have invented for yourself this erroneous definition of a scriptural generation to suit your view.

I would suggest altering your view to fit the scriptural definition of a generation, instead of altering the scriptural definition to fit your view.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Great post and I agree.

Could the 42 months represent the "times of the gentiles" shown in Revelation 11:2 and Luke 21:24?

Luke and Revelation go together like white on rice...............

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>, without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations/Gentiles
and the holy City they shall be treading<3961> forty two months.

Luke 21:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon Thee, and Thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege work<5482> to Thee and shall be encompassing<4033> Thee, and pressing Thee every which place.
=========================
This site has the most extensive studies on Josephus and the 70 ad destruction of Jerusalem I have even seen.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/timeline_military/
“..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history.”

TRACKING THE FIRST JEWISH REVOLT FROM A
MILITARY POINT OF VIEW
WITH ILLUSTRATIONS

The Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus
Government | Factions | Geography | Military | Theology

MARCH, A.D. 66 – JERUSALEM
The Final Days of the Jewish Commonwealth ; Halley’s Comet Closest Approach; Anarchy Erupts; More Christians Flee

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves -- are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance.......

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins...........

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat, pining with hunger, on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus, which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that, "as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed, it was but fit that its priests should parish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.
=================================

................................

................................

Matthew 24:33 = 1 Peter 4:7, James 5:8

at the door. Resembles sin crouching at the door of Cain in Genesis 4. Another allusion?

---

1 Peter 4:17. It's of the beginning of the date of the judgment.

2 Peter 3 speaks of the very end.

Maybe EVERYTHING from the tribulations of. The Jewish Roman war. In 70. All the way through the Millennium to final judgment afterwards. Is all biblically considered? The period of judgment? Which I think Jesus said he came to bring about? Perhaps it's all been just one long rolling judgment from the defeat of Babylon to the defeat of the beast to the defeat of gog and Magog.

 

[Ronald]

And the sky could possibly be yellow and the sun could possibly be blue...



The math doesn't lie.
A single generation in the passage above is approx 41 years.


I don't find circular reasoning very compelling. I'm surprised anyone does.

Your argument boils down to:
"It couldn't have happened back then because I don't think it happened back then"



ALL Christians since the 2nd century believed THEY were the terminal generation Jesus spoke of.

Every last one of them.
And you know what they ALL had in common?
100% failure rate

How could they ALL have been so wrong but you are convinced we today are right?



Psalm 90:10 does not discuss a generation, rather it discusses the average lifespan of a single human.

You provided a much more detailed scripture in Matthew above showing one generation is 41 years... which harmonizes with other scriptures that actually mention a generation, unlike Pslam 90:10 which does not.
Scriptures such as:
Psalm 95:10
Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:

and
Numbers 32:13
And the Lord'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the Lord, was consumed.



You have invented for yourself this erroneous definition of a scriptural generation to suit your view.

I would suggest altering your view to fit the scriptural definition of a generation, instead of altering the scriptural definition to fit your view.

I've been down this Preterist road with you before. You should just save you're words, make it simple and state that you're an Amillenialist or think all or most of Revelation happened in 70 AD. No need argue details, just state your main view.

 

[Ronald]

For the doomsday prophets, it was forty years. Until 1988. Then it was 70 years. Until 2018.

Oops. Time to move the goalposts again.

Well as Psalm 90:10 claims, one lifetime/generation is 70-80 years (80 if you are strong. And what is the average now? 78? Lets move the goal post at least a few more years aye mate?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Matthew 24:33 = 1 Peter 4:7, James 5:8
at the door. Resembles sin crouching at the door of Cain in Genesis 4. Another allusion?
1 Peter 4:17. It's of the beginning of the date of the judgment.
2 Peter 3 speaks of the very end.

Maybe EVERYTHING from the tribulations of. The Jewish Roman war. In 70. All the way through the Millennium to final judgment afterwards. Is all biblically considered? The period of judgment? Which I think Jesus said he came to bring about? Perhaps it's all been just one long rolling judgment from the defeat of Babylon to the defeat of the beast to the defeat of gog and Magog.

Great post Eric!
Luke shows it was the Kingdom of God nigh at the doors at the destruction of the Temple in 70ad.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
3 Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us! when shall these be? and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end<4931-5055> of the Age?

33 Thus also ye whenever ye may being seeing all these,
be knowing! that nigh it is being upon doors.

Mark 13
And He going forth out of the Temple,
4 Tell us! when these shall be? and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be fully consummated<4931>.

29 thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming,
be knowing! that nigh, it is being upon doors.

Luke 21
and of some saying concerning the Temple,.....
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher! when then shall these be being?
And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming?

31 Thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming,
ye are knowing that nigh is being the Kingdom of the God;
=======================================
And this to the corrupt murderous Judean Rulers [which was fulfilled in the destruction of their Temple in 70ad]

Mat 21
31 “Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.”
Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you.
43 Therefore I am saying to ye, that the Kingdom of the God shall be being taken-away from Ye and shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.
================================
Isn't Luke also considered the author of Acts and companion of Paul?

Luke 1:3
it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus,

Acts 1
1 In the first account I composed, O Theophilus, concerning all the things that Jesus began both to do and to teach, 2 until the day He was taken up, having given orders by the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom He had chosen, 3to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering with many proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Col 4:14 Luke the beloved physician and Demas greet you.
2Ti 4:11 Only Luke is with me. Get Mark and bring him with you, for he is useful to me for ministry.
Phm 1:24 as do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas, Luke, my fellow laborers.
======================================
A fairly extensive study on the KoG for those interested:


Kindgdom Bible Studies Kingdom of God Part 1
*snip*
THE RULE OF GOD

........It is significant to note that the phrases “Kingdom of God” and “Kingdom of Heaven” are not to be found in the Old Testament. They are strictly New Testament terms beginning with John the Baptist and Jesus. When Jesus came He did not preach a message called grace, or salvation, or justification, or sanctification, or regeneration, or even the Church. Could there be any more glorious message than the one that fell from His lips as He began His sonship ministry declaring, “The KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!” From that time forward the great teaching of the Lord centered in the truth of THE KINGDOM.

His gospel was the gospel (good news) of the Kingdom of God.
He only lightly touched on the other subjects which today are considered the great doctrines of the Church and then only as they related to the Kingdom. All of these things are included within the Kingdom, but the Kingdom is none of them. The Kingdom is THE RULE OF GOD. It is the DOMINION OF GOD. That is exactly what it is. And Jesus came with just that message — the revelation of the RULE OF GOD within the hearts of men, and through men, over the earth, yea, over the whole vast universe! First He must reign completely in our lives.
The Kingdom of God is God in Christ in the saints governing the creation of God. The rule of God begins in the hearts of His elect........

Jesus, after His resurrection, asked Peter three times if he loved Him. He then said to him: “When you were young, you girded yourself and walked where you would; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and Another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go.” Commenting on these words, the Holy Spirit adds: “This Jesus said to show by what death Peter was to glorify God” (Jn. 21:18-19). The expressions when you were young and when you are old speak of two distinct periods in Peter’s life. They indicate His walk before and after entering the Kingdom. The reference to his past (when Peter was young) and to his future (when he would be old) is not a reference to age but to spiritual immaturity and maturity. Emphasis in the first statement in on the pronoun you (“you girded yourself, you walked where you would”). During this period, Peter’s walk with the Lord was a walk which centered on self — on where he wanted to go and what he wanted to do for the Lord. How impetuous was he in his desires! But the day would come when Peter, subject to Jesus as his King, would allow the Lord to do with him as He willed...................

There are many strange ideas around about the difference between the terms “Kingdom of God” and “Kingdom of Heaven”. Carnal-minded men have long tried to make a distinction between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven, as though they were two separate kingdoms. Our Lord’s instructions upon sending out the twelve were, according to Matthew, “And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mat. 10:7). According to Luke, “He sent them forth to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick” (Lk. 9:2). Certainly Jesus did not preach two conflicting messages at the same time! Surely He was not announcing two separate and distinct kingdoms and declaring them both to be at hand! These, and many other passages, show the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are one and the same. Yet — there is a difference! For, you see, heaven is a REALM and God is a PERSON. The Kingdom has its origin in the REALM OF HEAVEN, and in the PERSON OF GOD. The term “Kingdom of Heaven” denotes from whence (from what place, location, realm or dimension) the Kingdom proceeds, whereas the term “Kingdom of God” reveals from whom (from what person or being) the Kingdom originates. When we consider these two items, place and person, it immediately follows that as to REALM the Kingdom is out of the heavenlies, but as to PERSON the Kingdom comes from God. It is called the Kingdom OF God because it is from and by God. He is the Instigator and Head of the Kingdom. It is called the Kingdom OF Heaven because it has its inception in heaven — the invisible realm of Spirit.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Note: You are able to change your vote in this poll.
I would like to primarily focus on the phrase "this generation" that is used in the Bible.
I want to post verses just from the Olivet Discourse and discuss them 1st.

The phrase uses 3 greek words instead of 2:

The generation, this-one.

h genea auth

Here are the verses using the transliterated greek:

Matthew 24:34
Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be passing-away the generation, this-one, till ever all these may be becoming.
amhn legw umin ou mh parelqh h genea auth
ewV an panta tauta genhtai

Mark 13:30
Amen I am saying to ye not no may be passing-away the generation, this-one unto of which any these all may be becoming
amhn legw umin oti ou mh parelqh h genea auth
mecriV ou panta tauta genhtai

Luke 21:32
“Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be passing-away the generation , this-one, till ever all things may be becoming.
amhn legw umin oti ou mh parelqh h genea auth
ewV an panta genhtai

As for Matthew 24:34, 35;
In this passage, "This generation" can possibly mean this Christian generation which includes all generations from then until the end times fullness of the Gentiles comes since some of the events in 70 AD are included. In Matthew 1, it opens up with "the generation of Jesus Christ" beginning with Abraham through David's line and ending with Jesus which includes 42 generations. However, the disciples Jesus was speaking to passed away and since the context of these verses pertains to His second coming, He must have been referring to a future generation.
Many believe that we are the generation this scripture is talking about. Since 1948, one generation (according to Psalm 90:10) is 70-80 years. I expected something to happen by 2018 and much has. the stage is being set. On the books and ordered by the UN, Israel became a nation in 1948 BUT Arab nations continued to war against Israel through the next year until all ratifications were finalized on July 20, 1949. But again, one generation can be 80 years if you are strong. So we wait a little while longer. I need a new body soon!

parousia70 said: ↑
And the sky could possibly be yellow and the sun could possibly be blue...
The math doesn't lie.
A single generation in the passage above is approx 41 years.
I don't find circular reasoning very compelling. I'm surprised anyone does.
Your argument boils down to:
"It couldn't have happened back then because I don't think it happened back then"
ALL Christians since the 2nd century believed THEY were the terminal generation Jesus spoke of.
Every last one of them.
And you know what they ALL had in common?
100% failure rate
How could they ALL have been so wrong but you are convinced we today are right?

I've been down this Preterist road with you before. You should just save you're words, make it simple and state that you're an Amillenialist or think all or most of Revelation happened in 70 AD. No need argue details, just state your main view.

I believe Catholics are Amill, as I am also [from being partial preterist]..........

 

[Ronald]

I believe Catholics are Amill, as I am also [from being partial preterist]..........

Through the years, you and I have agreed on many things ... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this topic - which is OK. It just seems going back and forth endlessly knowing either side will not budge is a waste of time. I suppose some change their minds.

My question is, if Preterists are correct, seeing the world in this generation becoming more corrupt, what hope is there for a better world if Jesus does not return soon? What, I suppose Chrisitianty will somehow prevail over all regions and eventually Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Atheists will convert to Christianity and the world will be at peace??? I can't see it lasting another thiry years. Islam will have conquered Europe just by having 4x more children than any other culture. Then you have the other problem of the richest nation, the U.S., financially collapsing due to massive debt ... then the world follows or actually more nations go first, like Venezuela. It seems hopeless without God's intervention SOON.

 

[parousia70]

Well as Psalm 90:10 claims, one lifetime/generation is 70-80 years

Psalm 90:10 says NOTHING about how long a generation is.
You have added that to the text.

When you need to add to the text to make your view work, I would suggest its not the text that needs adjusting...

 

[parousia70]

My question is, if Preterists are correct,

We are!

seeing the world in this generation becoming more corrupt, what hope is there for a better world if Jesus does not return soon? What, I suppose Chrisitianty will somehow prevail over all regions and eventually Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Atheists will convert to Christianity and the world will be at peace??? I can't see it lasting another thiry years. Islam will have conquered Europe just by having 4x more children than any other culture. Then you have the other problem of the richest nation, the U.S., financially collapsing due to massive debt ... then the world follows or actually more nations go first, like Venezuela. It seems hopeless without God's intervention SOON.

This is the defeatism that runs rampant throughout futurist theology.... Thank God the founders of this country did not share your pessimism!

I don't have much patience for cowardice and chickenlittle-ism. God's people are strong and courageous, not defeated pessimists. I don't know how people make it through each day based on the defeated attitude and outlook they inherit from false endtimes views, but maybe there is still hope--so listen up.

(1) The endtimes "apostasy" was a unique, first-century attempt by satan to abort the Church and one true faith during its infancy. The following passages were concerning a first-century event (see: Acts 20:29-30; 2 Tim 1:15; 4:10-11,16-17; 1 Jn 2:18-19/4:1-3; 2 Jn 1:7; 1 Peter 4:12-13, 5:8-9; Hebrews 6:6-11/10:38-39; 3 Jn 1:9-10; Rev 13:12; Jude 1:1-25). The apostles and Christ won that battle, and Christianity has since spread worldwide and cannot be stopped.

(2) Jesus Christ is the God of this world (Eph 1:20-22) and the Prince of the earth's kings (Rev 1:5). All spirits and powers have been made subject to His authority (1 Pet 3:22). All authority on earth belongs to King Jesus (Matt 28:18).

(3) Christians are the citizens of his ever growing, ever dominating Kingdom, and they form the largest religious nation worldwide.

(4) Very few people knew God and the covenant prior to AD 30-70. Since AD 70, Christianity has spread universally and cannot be stopped.

(5) The relative weakness of Christanity in Amreica in the past 50 years is the direct result of endtimes hysterias that cause evangelical Christians to abdicate their duties to America and neglect their children's futures. Evangelicals certain of a 1981 rapture (or 1988, or Y2K, or 2012, or "won't last another 30 years" etc..) simply gave up on America. Boy were they foolish. One of them, J.Vernon McGee, used to say: "you don't polish brass on a sinking ship." This was his excuse for abandoning America and our children's future. To that preacher, the present life was useless and he expected the rapture to come before he died. He was deadly wrong, and you and I are still here picking up the pieces after his neglect and his generation's neglect.

(6) It took a generation of Christian neglect towards our country to get us into this jam, and it will only take *ONE* generation of obedience to God to re-establish godly rule. But, this requires our participation, and evangelicals have got to stop falling for the endtimes myth over and over, and start believing the bible.

Futurism is an eschatology of defeatism concerning the role of the Church and its citizens in our communities and nations today.

Preterism is an eschatology of victory concerning the role of the Church and its citizens in our communities and nations today.

The constant fearful statements and dispair that futurists express about the world and their daily lives shows us that their doctrine that fuels such a "defeat mentality" is not based on FAITH, HOPE, and LOVE. Compare Joshua to the other spies who were afraid and gave a bad report about the land. That story is like preterists and futurists today. Futurists are the spies who always fearfully say "there are giants in the land!" Preterists are the JOSHUAS who say "THE LAND IS OURS! LET'S TAKE IT. God has given the land to US!"

 

[Erik Nelson]

Michael fights, tribulation
Daniel 12:1 = Revelation 12:7
||
Matthew 24:21 = 70th week of Daniel 9
||
"this generation", 70ad

Angel, 7th trumpet vs. Babylon
Daniel 12:7 = Revelation 10:5-7
||
vindication of martyrs = revelation 6:9-11

in between appears to be a resurrection
Daniel 12:2

 

[Ronald]

We are!



This is the defeatism that runs rampant throughout futurist theology.... Thank God the founders of this country did not share your pessimism!

I don't have much patience for cowardice and chickenlittle-ism. God's people are strong and courageous, not defeated pessimists. I don't know how people make it through each day based on the defeated attitude and outlook they inherit from false endtimes views, but maybe there is still hope--so listen up.

(1) The endtimes "apostasy" was a unique, first-century attempt by satan to abort the Church and one true faith during its infancy. The following passages were concerning a first-century event (see: Acts 20:29-30; 2 Tim 1:15; 4:10-11,16-17; 1 Jn 2:18-19/4:1-3; 2 Jn 1:7; 1 Peter 4:12-13, 5:8-9; Hebrews 6:6-11/10:38-39; 3 Jn 1:9-10; Rev 13:12; Jude 1:1-25). The apostles and Christ won that battle, and Christianity has since spread worldwide and cannot be stopped.

(2) Jesus Christ is the God of this world (Eph 1:20-22) and the Prince of the earth's kings (Rev 1:5). All spirits and powers have been made subject to His authority (1 Pet 3:22). All authority on earth belongs to King Jesus (Matt 28:18).

(3) Christians are the citizens of his ever growing, ever dominating Kingdom, and they form the largest religious nation worldwide.

(4) Very few people knew God and the covenant prior to AD 30-70. Since AD 70, Christianity has spread universally and cannot be stopped.

(5) The relative weakness of Christanity in Amreica in the past 50 years is the direct result of endtimes hysterias that cause evangelical Christians to abdicate their duties to America and neglect their children's futures. Evangelicals certain of a 1981 rapture (or 1988, or Y2K, or 2012, or "won't last another 30 years" etc..) simply gave up on America. Boy were they foolish. One of them, J.Vernon McGee, used to say: "you don't polish brass on a sinking ship." This was his excuse for abandoning America and our children's future. To that preacher, the present life was useless and he expected the rapture to come before he died. He was deadly wrong, and you and I are still here picking up the pieces after his neglect and his generation's neglect.

(6) It took a generation of Christian neglect towards our country to get us into this jam, and it will only take *ONE* generation of obedience to God to re-establish godly rule. But, this requires our participation, and evangelicals have got to stop falling for the endtimes myth over and over, and start believing the bible.

Futurism is an eschatology of defeatism concerning the role of the Church and its citizens in our communities and nations today.

Preterism is an eschatology of victory concerning the role of the Church and its citizens in our communities and nations today.

The constant fearful statements and dispair that futurists express about the world and their daily lives shows us that their doctrine that fuels such a "defeat mentality" is not based on FAITH, HOPE, and LOVE. Compare Joshua to the other spies who were afraid and gave a bad report about the land. That story is like preterists and futurists today. Futurists are the spies who always fearfully say "there are giants in the land!" Preterists are the JOSHUAS who say "THE LAND IS OURS! LET'S TAKE IT. God has given the land to US!"

So it's victorious for Christianity when the country has plunged into immorality that is on the rise?
The sixties brought the drug revolution, hippy generation, free love; the seventies brought legalized abortion (60 million to date) that has blossomed to selling baby parts, partial birth abortions and now infanticide after birth. VICTORY???
This country was founded a Christian nation and now has been infiltrated with false religions, hedonism, humanism, etc. The universities have turned from Chrisitan Ivy League schools in the early 19th century to liberal anti-god institutions teaching the TOE and spreading socialist. Anti -American ideas. VICTORY???
Marriage was from the beginning of time between a man and a woman and now Gay Marriage is legal. VICTORY?
The liberals war against the words: "In God We Trust" and seek to remove any Biblical scriptures, the Ten Commandments or Nativity scenes from all government buildings. OBAMA gets up there and claims this is not a Chrisitian nation, to appease Muslims and allows a terrorist funding organization like CAIR to set up camp in the US. And now we have Ms. OMAR, a MUSLIM in Congress who is anti-Semitic and anti-American taking her oath with her hand on the Quran. VICTORY?
Look at what is on TV now compared to 50 years ago, most everything is filthy, R-rated. VICTORY?
FINALLY, Jesus second coming is suppose to defeat evil, remove sin from the planet, lock Satan and his demons up in the Abyss - THAT DID NOT HAPPEN! Satan is still causing havoc, tempting, seeking to destroy God's people. Sure, he can't touch us, but he sure is behind the evil in the world. Jesus will bring peace and that is the point - we have never seen world peace because we aren't able to defeat sin and remove it from the world.
VICTORY?? Can you actually read through Revelation chapters 6-22 and say these things happened already and claim they meant something symbolically different than there literal meaning?
I'm looking for a more complete victory that will wipe out out sin, cast Satan, his demons, death and Hades into the Lake of Fire and be destroyed forever. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO A NEW IMMORTAL BODY, ETERNAL PEACE, A NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH _ THAT'S VICTORY.