Mueller Report - no collusion and no obstruction

[Speedwell]

I disagree

So why do they still deny it?

 

[LoAmmi]

There is little convincing evidence that the Russian efforts were very helpful in getting Trump elected. There were many, many, many factors that we are pretty sure affected the voting public. Russian interference is not one of these factors.

I personally know people who fell for the propaganda floating around Facebook that can be traced to the Russians.

 

[mark46]

Yes, perhaps this report will help Congress draft bipartisan legislation.

But make no mistake, it was well in Clinton's control to win the election. It is not as if the Russians interfered with voting machines. The only external factors, IMHO, were the actions by the FBI and Cuomy.

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/2019-ATA-SFR---SSCI.pdf

 

[LoAmmi]

Yes, perhaps this report will help Congress draft bipartisan legislation.

But make no mistake, it was well in Clinton's control to win the election. It is not as if the Russians interfered with voting machines. The only external factors, IMHO, were the actions by the FBI and Cuomy.

Clinton ran one of the worst campaigns in the history of the nation. She should have moonwalked into the White House, but decided to try to "run up the score" in red states that ended up not voting for her anyway. Ignoring Wisconsin and Michigan (to a lesser extent PA) doomed her.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I don't think that will be possible under the present administration. Trump & Co. Still have too much invested in denying that such interference ever took place.

What is stopping Congress from doing their own investigation?

 

[mark46]

So why do they still deny it?

No one know why the administration denies Russian interference. We also don't know why administration and campaign folks lied so many times about LEGAL interactions with Russia. One is reminded of Nixon's paranoia regarding the 1972 campaign of McGovern.

That fact should NOT prevent the Congress from passing laws on a bipartisan basis that would prevent future attempted interference by foreign powers. In this case, the countries could indeed be Russia, China, North Korea or even Islamic terrorist organizations.

 

[mark46]

Yup, even at the end, spending the last week in PA, WI and MI might have sealed the election. As we recall, she campaigned in ARIZ and totally ignored WI. She also might have had her final rally in central PA among the workers (with Biden) instead of in PHIL celebrating with the coastal elite and Beyonce.

Clinton ran one of the worst campaigns in the history of the nation. She should have moonwalked into the White House, but decided to try to "run up the score" in red states that ended up not voting for her anyway. Ignoring Wisconsin and Michigan (to a lesser extent PA) doomed her.

 

[LoAmmi]

Yup, even at the end, spending the last week in PA, WI and MI might have sealed the election. As we recall, she campaigned in ARIZ and totally ignored WI. She also might have had her final rally in central PA among the workers (with Biden) instead of in PHIL celebrating with the coastal elite and Beyonce.

My friend speculated that she wanted to try to win by a landslide so that the first female president wasn't dogged by a close victory. I think her strategy kind of shows that.

 

[mark46]

What is stopping Congress from doing their own investigation?

The obvious answer is "nothing". The issue is whether the Democrats are willing to work with Republicans on legislation that might have veto-proof support.

 

[childeye 2]

I personally know people who fell for the propaganda floating around Facebook that can be traced to the Russians.

I can believe that. I study semantics, particularly propaganda and psychological manipulation, (I don't want to believe lies because they destroy the light of the soul). The same people I know who believed Obama was a secret Muslim (terrorist), born in Kenya, voted for Trump.

 

[cow451]

What affected the election was actions by Cuomy.

Not nearly as much as Clinton’s deficiencies.

 

[childeye 2]

What is stopping Congress from doing their own investigation?

I believe the problem is how do you combat disinformation online? The carnal mind actually wants to believe bad things about others. In vanity it's uplifting to put others down. (Listen to Trump talk and examine if he is using this method to appeal to his base).

 

[LoAmmi]

I believe the problem is how do you combat disinformation online? The carnal mind actually wants to believe bad things about others. In vanity it's uplifting to put others down. (Listen to Trump talk using this method to appeal to his base).

While also preserving free speech.

 

[childeye 2]

While also preserving free speech.

Exactly. The mind of the propagandist doesn't see free speech as a sentiment about ensuring that the Truth can be spoken. They see it as a method to ensure that it's legal to lie. Why was Felix Sater so confident that Russia could engineer the election?

 

[mark46]

The Democrats will whine and "fight". Trump already agreed to give the full report (subject to various exclusions determined by Barr and the team). Barr's scheduled appearance before the Senate is already being planned. There is not much the the Democrats will get that isn't already being requested by Republicans. Most will be ready to move on from collusion and obstruction, perhaps onward to new bipartisan veto-proof legislation that limits foreign intervention in the 2020 election, and provides more help to the states and local governments.

THE ADMINISTRATION WILL LIKELY
release the Mueller report, excluding
1) classified information (except in a version given to the with top clearance)
2) grand jury testimony
3) the president's written testimony
4) information that relates to cases in progress
5) conversations between the president and others
6) some of the information related to those, not named Trump, who weren't prosecuted (DOJ policy)

THEY ALSO
will likely will send Barr to testify before the Senate, and perhaps allow Rosenstein and Mueller to testify. None of these appearances will be very useful.

 

[rjs330]

There is little convincing evidence that the Russian efforts were very helpful in getting Trump elected. There were many, many, many factors that we are pretty sure affected the voting public. Russian interference is not one of these factors.

I whole heartedly agree. There were many reasons not to vote for Clinton. Just as there were many reasons not to vote for Trump. In the end Clinton ran a horrible campaign and gave many Americans reasons not to vote for her. They weren't made up reasons faked by the Russians. They were real reasons from her own campaign, her beliefs, her server issue, her past and words from her own mouth. The fact she attempted to collude herself with the fake dossier was not lost on people either.

 

[Speedwell]

I whole heartedly agree. There were many reasons not to vote for Clinton. Just as there were many reasons not to vote for Trump. In the end Clinton ran a horrible campaign and gave many Americans reasons not to vote for her. They weren't made up reasons faked by the Russians. They were real reasons from her own campaign, her beliefs, her server issue, her past and words from her own mouth. The fact she attempted to collude herself with the fake dossier was not lost on people either.

That you think the dossier was "fake" is evidence of some kind of disinformation campaign, even if not Russian.

 

[Go Braves]

Trump says public should see 'ridiculous' Mueller report

Lulz. Of course he is saying that. If he actually stands by what he says, then he should be a man about it, & make sure the public sees the actual report with minimal redactions. Folks have long predicted that what would happen is the Russians would have a useful idiot leak the report. It would look real, but be manipulatively edited.

Months back a gal here who studies under the former ambassador to Russia wrote this.

There will be far more garbage in the future that will be proudly held up like trophies by those determined to discredit the Mueller investigation. Russians are manufacturing the trophies, and will have trolls dressed up as MAGA supporters take them off the assembly line and hand them out.

Documents from the Mueller investigation have already been illegitimately posted and disseminated online after being altered with the intent of discrediting. The documents were not leaked by Mueller's investigation team; they had been provided by Mueller to the defense attorneys for the case against Concord Management. That case began in February 2018 when a federal grand jury indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities, including Concord Management, with conspiracy to defraud the United States. The defendants allegedly created false personas and social-media pages to influence the 2016 election. In October a new Twitter account boasted that it had hacked into Mueller’s database (that was a lie; it hadn't) and was offering access to documents about the case. It posted hundreds of thousands of documents that had been manipulated skillfully so they had the appearance of being authentic, but they were not. Then other fake accounts spread that tweet on social media. This led to the FBI investigating a Russian disinformation campaign..... about the investigation of the Russian disinformation campaign.

There's little doubt that this history will be repeated.

She was right. Folks are already claiming that the "Mueller Report" has been leaked & is on Scribd.

 

[hislegacy]

Then Donald should want the full report to be made public with minimal redactions, ASAP.

It was then showed that he already did:

Trump says public should see 'ridiculous' Mueller report

Lulz. Of course he is saying that. If he actually stands by what he says, then he should be a man about it, & make sure the public sees the actual report with minimal redactions. Folks have long predicted that what would happen is the Russians would have a useful idiot leak the report. It would look real, but be manipulatively edited.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

A Nuthin Berder with 34 indictments and slathered with Manaforts ill-gotten gains.

Not one of which link the President or his campaign to Russia!

 

[Go Braves]

It was then showed that he already did:






Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.



Not one of which link the President or his campaign to Russia!

Donald saying he thinks the public should see the report & making sure the public sees the report are 2 wildly different things. Donald repeatedly promised to show his tax returns. Still no sight of them. Donald hasn't read the report himself. It has not been made public.

Not in the slightest bit surprising that you'd want to claim that it's a conspiracy theory, lol. It's not. Right here there's already folks claiming that the Mueller Report has been leaked, following the pattern explained months back.

It's also a fact that Russia interfered with our election & they will do so again. Donald's being investigated in literally more than a dozen other things. We don't know what the Mueller report actually said. Donald's handpicked sycophant has summarized it. Even from that we know that he's not exonerated. I agree with Donald that the whole report should be read. The actual report.