- Jul 2, 2018
- 18,580
- 11,386
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
No, it results in a better job.You're missing the point. Does believing in Him for a better job result in salvation?
Upvote
0
No, it results in a better job.You're missing the point. Does believing in Him for a better job result in salvation?
I think you've just nailed the problem here. You have no idea what "doctrine" means.That's a winner. You finally boiled it down to the essence.
And what did we find? No doctrine. Imagine that. Good job!
How do you know?No, it results in a better job.
No, I understand you just fine.The better explanation would be why the requirements for saving faith seem so complicated for you.
Can a person "have faith" if they have no object in which to believe?
Can a person "have faith" if they have no reason, goal or purpose for which to believe?
Or, is all this just too complicated for you to answer?
Thanks for proving my point. There is hope for you yet. lolI've been "boiling it down" to essence from the beginning of our near discussion.
No. My answer is very relevant. Try this on for size.the discussion has been about "saving faith". So your answer is irrelevant to the discussion.
Absolutely - no one can even believe the gospel without the presence and work of Christ's Holy Spirit.The Truth of the matter is that Christ taught us to be obedient to The Word. That instruction is impossible to obey without Christ.
I agree. there are many in this world who claim to be keeping the law and even claim to be Christians. But they have never been born again by the Word of God. As a consequence the supposed house of salvation they are building will eventually fall - even if it never becomes evident until they meet the Lord face to face.Those that Truly try to be obedient fail until Christ moves in to save that soul.
Yes - and that understanding from the first spark to complete sanctification and glorification can only be applied by the work of the Holy Spirit who is given to all who have been justified through a simple faith in the basic work of Christ on their behalf at Calvary.Once that happens, there must come a true understanding of The Fear of The Lord that is the beginning of Knowledge. Also, there comes chastisement and scourging for disobedience to those who have been enlightened. With knowledge comes greater expectations.
Absolutely.However, all who are saved are saved by Grace through Faith in Christ Jesus and The Holy Trinity.
Good to know.No, I understand you just fine.
The issue is the state of mind of the unbeliever and what they need to know in order to get saved.I have been trying to get you to understand the state of mind of the new convert.
They only "know nothing" until the gospel is presented to them. If it's presented correctly, then they know HOW to be saved.THEY KNOW NOTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing except that they need a change and what you are saying to them resonates on some level. If you told them they needed to stand on their head in the corner, they might do it.
Oh really? How so?This is the thing that you seem to have completely lost touch with.
I think you remain confused. A "new believer" has ALREADY come to Christ.Have you ever taken a job to work somewhere and been completely overwhelmed trying to "learn the ropes"? That's what it is like for the new believer coming to Christ.
Not hardly.Totally helpless like an infant that needs EVERYTHING done for them.
This example doesn't even come close to understanding what saving faith is.Would you refuse to feed a baby because they can't explain to you what food is?
Ditto.Would you refuse to change a diaper because they can't explain how the digestive system works? I hope not.
Maybe you're just finally getting the point.Thanks for proving my point. There is hope for you yet. lol
What I "try on for size" is also irrelevant to this discussion.No. My answer is very relevant. Try this on for size.
OK, so you don't understand what Paul was saying here.What did the Apostle say was a better basis for faith?
1) Wise and persuasive words. (3 points of doctrine)
2) God's power demonstrated in your life. (like the job you needed)
1 Corinthians 2:4-5
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
In the Bible, there is only "faith", no such thing as "saving faith".I have asked several times for your explanation of what saving faith is. I'm still waiting.
No, there are all kinds of "faith". iow, all kinds of objects of faith, for all kinds of reasons.In the Bible, there is only "faith", no such thing as "saving faith".
Though cute, nothing else.I think you are just trying to "save face". (saving faith with a lisp)
Seriously? Never heard (or read about) "false brothers"? Specifically mentioned in 2 Cor 11:26 and Gal 2:4.This is right up there with posters that write about "true" Christians.
As opposed to what?
The question is: Does Doctrine play any role in Salvation?Are you aware that you've done nothing to demonstrate anything more simple?
No, that is merely your opinion.The question is: Does Doctrine play any role in Salvation?
My answer is "No." The contents of "No" are zero in number.
Therefore "nothing" is the correct response.
You have ignored my request to explain what saving faith is.Why would you be surprised by this?
Or feel that I have not participated in the discussion?
He knew plenty. No doubt he had either seen or heard about plenty of miracles that Jesus performed.The example in the OP was the thief on the cross.
No doctrine necessary = salvation.
How is Acts 16:31 so difficult to grasp? It contains both aspects of saving faith:Anything you want to add to that just muddies the water.
Are you claiming your opinion is of more value than mine?No, that is merely your opinion.
I told you there is no such thing. What is to explain?You have ignored my request to explain what saving faith is.
Was this in your three points list? Or just added and unnecessary complication.He knew plenty. No doubt he had either seen or heard about plenty of miracles that Jesus performed.
He knew that Jesus was King and going to His kingdom.
Don't kid yourself.
That's fine. A person who is leading someone to Christ might find it useful.How is Acts 16:31 so difficult to grasp? It contains both aspects of saving faith:
1. the object is the Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, who died on the cross for all sins.
2. the goal or purpose of faith in Christ is salvation.
Boom.
No mud. No mess. Just the facts.
I said this:
"Well, you blew that one! You've equated people with microwave ovens.
I'm going to make this easy for you to grasp. I'm going to color code the verse.
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
The red words refer to believers (our sins).
The blue words refer to unbelievers (whole world).
You're welcome!
I recommend that you consult with a lexicon."
What's wrong with my color coded explanation of the verse that you totally mischaracterized?
Instead of throwing ad hominems, please try to actually engage other posters with something helpful, or at least try to communicate.
If there is anything incorrect with my color coded explanation of 1 John 2:2, please explain.
I back up my views from Scripture.Are you claiming your opinion is of more value than mine?
Another opinion.[I told you there is no such thing. What is to explain?
Do you withhold salvation from those who fail your doctrinal "saving faith" test?
Maybe you enjoy making people jump through hoops for you.
What in the world are you rattling on about?You don't read the entirety of what someone is saying. You take things out of context. Are you doing that on purpose, or do you have an issue that you can not help yourself?
Having a conversation with someone who cherry picks what you say - is like trying to nail down Jello.
Are you doing this on purpose?
Oh, your personal opinions have authority over mine?I back up my views from Scripture.
Not in my hands. Totally in God's hands. And you know what? He is the One who came up with the plan for the salvation of mankind. And it's called "saving faith".
Not "saving works", or any other nutty idea. One is saved by faith in Jesus Christ.
Are you actually disagreeing with this??
Do you have reading comprehension issues?So, who has been jumping through hoops from any of my posts?
Why do you think I have that much power over others?
And, once again, you have failed to provide any explanation of your view of how someone gets saved.
You are over-reacting to my questions and statements. If you are a biblically based believer, are you just embarrassed to admit that you yourself agree that a person must put their faith in Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God, and that He died for their sins, and gives eternal life to those who believe in Him for it.
Or, do you have some other idea about how a person gets saved?
Oh, your personal opinions have authority over mine?
Since the "God card" really means Scripture, then YES, I have trumped your opinion.A vain attempt to trump my opinion with your own by playing the God card.
Why would you or anyone else think that I haven't? Seems you love to opine a lot.Maybe you should leave it in God's hands then.
The example I gave was of Paul telling the jailer what he MUST DO to be saved. Just how many "rules" did Paul give the jailer?Instead of making up all sorts of your own "rules" that people have to comply with to be saved.
So now your opinions or fantasies have move to incantations, huh.As if the doctrine is magic words for the salvation incantation.
Not nearly as much as you've demonstrated.Do you have reading comprehension issues?
You are over-reacting to my questions and statements.