The Holy Bible Teaches Globe Earth.

FEZZILLA

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The flat earth movement seems to be one of those temporary movements which will decline and go back to the underground where it came from. In the meantime, this anarchist movement seeks to win people over to their worldview through the sensation of conspiracy theory which is based entirely on disinformation. The Holy Bible does not teach flat earth nor is there a flat earth tradition in Christianity. I would like to officially knock out the flat earth allegation leveled against the Bible by atheists once and for all. These lies being spread that the Bible is a flat earth book are not true.

The ground rules for this discussion is that the topic stays on the Biblical view and not arguments from the perspective of modern science. So if we want to understand the Biblical teaching we must stay on track.

I became a Christian back when I was 14 years old. When I first opened up my new NIV 1984 Edition Bible, I flipped open to the 40th Chapter of the Book of Isaiah and it didn't take long for my young and sharp eyes to notice verse 22. When I first read Isaiah 40:22 I knew right away what it was saying to me. I knew right then and there that God revealed the globular shape of the earth to Isaiah, and what I was taught in school about Columbus discovering the round shape of the earth was not true. I also knew I was reading a very ancient work so I knew better than to nit-pick on the circular description of the earth, as the earth is circular as seen in space, no matter what side of the earth you see.

There are actually over a dozen globe earth verses in the Bible.
 
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SeventyOne

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The flat earth movement seems to be one of those temporary movements which will decline and go back to the underground where it came from. In the meantime, this anarchist movement seeks to win people over to their worldview through the sensation of conspiracy theory which is based entirely on disinformation. The Holy Bible does not teach flat earth nor is there a flat earth tradition in Christianity. I would like to officially knock out the flat earth allegation leveled against the Bible by atheists once and for all. These lies being spread that the Bible is a flat earth book are not true.

The ground rules for this discussion is that the topic stays on the Biblical view and not arguments from the perspective of modern science. So if we want to understand the Biblical teaching we must stay on track.

I became a Christian back when I was 14 years old. When I first opened up my new NIV 1984 Edition Bible, I flipped open to the 40th Chapter of the Book of Isaiah and it didn't take long for my young and sharp eyes to notice verse 22. When I first read Isaiah 40:22 I knew right away what it was saying to me. I knew right then and there that God revealed the globular shape of the earth to Isaiah, and what I was taught in school about Columbus discovering the round shape of the earth was not true. I also knew I was reading a very ancient work so I knew better than to nit-pick on the circular description of the earth, as the earth is circular as seen in space, no matter what side of the earth you see.

There are actually over a dozen globe earth verses in the Bible.

From a flat earth perspective, the earth also looks like a circle, so that's not a proof of anything. I am curious though if you did anything with the last part of that verse in relation to a globe. The heavens are spread out like a tent to dwell in. Lat time I checked, a tent structure the writer would have been familiar with would be an enclosure over a flat surface. I seriously doubt the idea of a tent would have brought to mind a ball hurling through the air. So, how did you relate that part to a globe?
 
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Cis.jd

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The Bible doesn't teach anything about either. All verses that talk about the earth are metaphorical and nothing about explaining or even hinting a design.

Stop trying to make the Bible to be some "oh you see, it said it before science therefore we are better" book. It's purpose, message and over all contents contain a different purpose and message rather than explaining and giving us natural discoveries.
 
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Speedwell

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The flat earth movement seems to be one of those temporary movements which will decline and go back to the underground where it came from. In the meantime, this anarchist movement seeks to win people over to their worldview through the sensation of conspiracy theory which is based entirely on disinformation. The Holy Bible does not teach flat earth nor is there a flat earth tradition in Christianity. I would like to officially knock out the flat earth allegation leveled against the Bible by atheists once and for all. These lies being spread that the Bible is a flat earth book are not true.

The ground rules for this discussion is that the topic stays on the Biblical view and not arguments from the perspective of modern science. So if we want to understand the Biblical teaching we must stay on track.

I became a Christian back when I was 14 years old. When I first opened up my new NIV 1984 Edition Bible, I flipped open to the 40th Chapter of the Book of Isaiah and it didn't take long for my young and sharp eyes to notice verse 22. When I first read Isaiah 40:22 I knew right away what it was saying to me. I knew right then and there that God revealed the globular shape of the earth to Isaiah, and what I was taught in school about Columbus discovering the round shape of the earth was not true. I also knew I was reading a very ancient work so I knew better than to nit-pick on the circular description of the earth, as the earth is circular as seen in space, no matter what side of the earth you see.

There are actually over a dozen globe earth verses in the Bible.
I'm sorry that you were fed such guff in school about Columbus. In fact, the Earth has been known to be a sphere for upwards of two millennia. In the third century BC the Greek mathematician Eratosthenes calculated the diameter of the Earth within 10% of its actual value. The thing with Columbus was that he insisted on doing the calculations for himself and was off by a factor of two, which is why everybody else thought it was too far to go and why he thought he was in Japan when he got to the Bahamas.
 
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FEZZILLA

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From a flat earth perspective, the earth also looks like a circle, so that's not a proof of anything. I am curious though if you did anything with the last part of that verse in relation to a globe. The heavens are spread out like a tent to dwell in. Lat time I checked, a tent structure the writer would have been familiar with would be an enclosure over a flat surface. I seriously doubt the idea of a tent would have brought to mind a ball hurling through the air. So, how did you relate that part to a globe?

The Bible was not written in English or English grammar & expressions. It was written in Hebrew and uses a vocabulary familiar to the Prophet who is writing God's message.

The tent is the earth's atmosphere.

Here is Isaiah 40:22 from Jerome's Latin Vulgate:


Isaiah 40:22,

Latin Vulgate: "qui sedet super gyrum terrae et habitatores eius sunt quasi lucustae qui extendit velut nihilum caelos et expandit eos sicut tabernaculum ad inhabitandum"

Word: Gyrum (aka, Gyrus), from H2329: חוּג chûwg

Latin Definition
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...ZH7ovQ8c_D859etdYFEccZ8lLMVk-Ls5jqrddKYHlbCGQ

Hebrew Lexicons for H2328 & H2329, חוּג Chuwg

✅The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible,

H2328. חוּג Chuwg, kloog; a prim. root [comp.2287]; to describe a circle:--compass [1x]."

H2329. חוּג Chuwg, khoog; from 2328; a circle:--circle [1x], circuit [1x], compass [1x].".

✅Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, H2329: "חוּג m. a circle, sphere, used of the arch or vault of the sky, Pro.8:27; Job 22:14; of the world, Isa.40:22."

Chuwg: circle, circuit, compass, sphere.

Here is 4th century Bishop Ambrose reading from Isaiah 40:22.

"And further on: 'Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?' Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron" The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, p.231).

Bible Commentaries:

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown: Commentary on the Whole Bible,

“It is he--rather, connected to the last verse, Have ye not known?--have ye not understood Him that sitteth...? (vs.26) [MAUDER]. Circle--applicable to the globular form of the earth, above which, and the vault of the sky around it, above it, He sits. For “upon” translate “above.” as grasshoppers--or locusts in His sight (Num.13:33), as He looks down from on high (Ps.33:13, 14; 113:4-6).”

Matthew Henry's Commentary,

"Now that which is here said of God is (1.) That he has command of all creatures. The heaven and the earth themselves are under his management: He sits upon the circle, or globe, of the earth, v. 22. He that has the special residence of his glory in the upper world maintains a dominion over the lower world, gives law to it, and directs all the motions of it to his own glory. He sits undisturbed upon the earth, and establishes it. He is still stretching out the heavens, his power and providence keep them still stretched out, and will do so till the comes that they shall be rolled together like a scroll. He spreads them out as easily as we draw a curtain to and fro, opening these curtains in the morning and drawing them close again at night. And the heaven is to this earth as a tent to dwell in; it is a canopy drawn over our heads, et quod tegit omnia coelum --- and it encircles all. --Ovid. See Ps.104:2 (2.) That the children of men, even the greatest and mightiest, are as nothing before him. The numerous inhabitants of this earth are in his eye as grasshoppers in ours, so little and inconsiderable, of such small value, of such little use, and so easily crushed. Proud men's lifting up themselves is but like the grasshopper's leap; in an instant they must stoop down to the earth again. If the spies thought themselves as grasshoppers before the sons of Anak (Num.13:33), what are we before the great God? Grasshoppers live but awhile, and live carelessly, not like the ant; so do the most men. (3.) That those who appear and act against him, how formidable soever they may be to their fellow-creatures, will certainly be humble and brought down by the mighty hand of God."

The Bible Knowledge Commentary (1985 Edition)

“God’s sovereign control over the world (40:21-26). 40:21-22. From His sovereign position in heaven God watches over His created universe. You (used four times in v.21) refers to people in general. The force of the first question, for example, is “Doesn’t everyone know this?” (cf. v. 28) The Lord is like a king sitting enthroned above the circle (hug, “horizon,” which is circular; cf. Job 26:10: Prov.8:27) of the earth and over His people who by comparison seem like mere grasshoppers. The heavens (the sky) are pictured as spread out like a tent for Him to live in (cf.Ps.104:2). Isaiah was not presenting a detailed idea of God’s abode. He was merely using imagery that his readers would easily understand.”

Henry Morris Study Bible,

“40:22 circle of the earth. Hebrew khug, translated “compassed” in Job 26:10 and “compass” in Proverbs 8:27. All three, in context, clearly refer to the spherical shape of the earth.
40:22 stretcheth out the heavens. This phrase is possibly a reference to the expanding universe, as envisioned by modern astronomers. There are numerous references in Scripture to the “stretching-out” or “spreading-out” of the heavens (space) when God created the universe. See, for example, Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 42:5; 44:24; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12. Alternatively, the “heavens” referred to here may refer simply to the atmospheric heavens, spread out like a curtain or “tent to dwell in” around a circle of the earth. This atmospheric “tent”, refracting and spreading light over the hemisphere, is sharply distinct from the darkness outside.”
 
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FEZZILLA

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The Bible doesn't teach anything about either. All verses that talk about the earth are metaphorical and nothing about explaining or even hinting a design.

Stop trying to make the Bible to be some "oh you see, it said it before science therefore we are better" book. It's purpose, message and over all contents contain a different purpose and message rather than explaining and giving us natural discoveries.

Why should have to lie and pretend the Bible doesn't teach globe earth when it does?
 
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SeventyOne

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The Bible was not written in English or English grammar & expressions. It was written in Hebrew and uses a vocabulary familiar to the Prophet who is writing God's message.

The tent is the earth's atmosphere.

Here is Isaiah 40:22 from Jerome's Latin Vulgate:


Isaiah 40:22,

Latin Vulgate: "qui sedet super gyrum terrae et habitatores eius sunt quasi lucustae qui extendit velut nihilum caelos et expandit eos sicut tabernaculum ad inhabitandum"

Word: Gyrum (aka, Gyrus), from H2329: חוּג chûwg

Latin Definition
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...ZH7ovQ8c_D859etdYFEccZ8lLMVk-Ls5jqrddKYHlbCGQ


Hebrew Lexicons for H2328 & H2329, חוּג Chuwg

✅The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible,

H2328. חוּג Chuwg, kloog; a prim. root [comp.2287]; to describe a circle:--compass [1x]."

H2329. חוּג Chuwg, khoog; from 2328; a circle:--circle [1x], circuit [1x], compass [1x].".

✅Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, H2329: "חוּג m. a circle, sphere, used of the arch or vault of the sky, Pro.8:27; Job 22:14; of the world, Isa.40:22."

Chuwg: circle, circuit, compass, sphere.

Here is 4th century Bishop Ambrose reading from Isaiah 40:22.

"And further on: 'Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?' Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron" The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, p.231).

Bible Commentaries:

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown: Commentary on the Whole Bible,

“It is he--rather, connected to the last verse, Have ye not known?--have ye not understood Him that sitteth...? (vs.26) [MAUDER]. Circle--applicable to the globular form of the earth, above which, and the vault of the sky around it, above it, He sits. For “upon” translate “above.” as grasshoppers--or locusts in His sight (Num.13:33), as He looks down from on high (Ps.33:13, 14; 113:4-6).”

Matthew Henry's Commentary,

"Now that which is here said of God is (1.) That he has command of all creatures. The heaven and the earth themselves are under his management: He sits upon the circle, or globe, of the earth, v. 22. He that has the special residence of his glory in the upper world maintains a dominion over the lower world, gives law to it, and directs all the motions of it to his own glory. He sits undisturbed upon the earth, and establishes it. He is still stretching out the heavens, his power and providence keep them still stretched out, and will do so till the comes that they shall be rolled together like a scroll. He spreads them out as easily as we draw a curtain to and fro, opening these curtains in the morning and drawing them close again at night. And the heaven is to this earth as a tent to dwell in; it is a canopy drawn over our heads, et quod tegit omnia coelum --- and it encircles all. --Ovid. See Ps.104:2 (2.) That the children of men, even the greatest and mightiest, are as nothing before him. The numerous inhabitants of this earth are in his eye as grasshoppers in ours, so little and inconsiderable, of such small value, of such little use, and so easily crushed. Proud men's lifting up themselves is but like the grasshopper's leap; in an instant they must stoop down to the earth again. If the spies thought themselves as grasshoppers before the sons of Anak (Num.13:33), what are we before the great God? Grasshoppers live but awhile, and live carelessly, not like the ant; so do the most men. (3.) That those who appear and act against him, how formidable soever they may be to their fellow-creatures, will certainly be humble and brought down by the mighty hand of God."

The Bible Knowledge Commentary (1985 Edition)

“God’s sovereign control over the world (40:21-26). 40:21-22. From His sovereign position in heaven God watches over His created universe. You (used four times in v.21) refers to people in general. The force of the first question, for example, is “Doesn’t everyone know this?” (cf. v. 28) The Lord is like a king sitting enthroned above the circle (hug, “horizon,” which is circular; cf. Job 26:10: Prov.8:27) of the earth and over His people who by comparison seem like mere grasshoppers. The heavens (the sky) are pictured as spread out like a tent for Him to live in (cf.Ps.104:2). Isaiah was not presenting a detailed idea of God’s abode. He was merely using imagery that his readers would easily understand.”

Henry Morris Study Bible,

“40:22 circle of the earth. Hebrew khug, translated “compassed” in Job 26:10 and “compass” in Proverbs 8:27. All three, in context, clearly refer to the spherical shape of the earth.
40:22 stretcheth out the heavens. This phrase is possibly a reference to the expanding universe, as envisioned by modern astronomers. There are numerous references in Scripture to the “stretching-out” or “spreading-out” of the heavens (space) when God created the universe. See, for example, Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 42:5; 44:24; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12. Alternatively, the “heavens” referred to here may refer simply to the atmospheric heavens, spread out like a curtain or “tent to dwell in” around a circle of the earth. This atmospheric “tent”, refracting and spreading light over the hemisphere, is sharply distinct from the darkness outside.”

So, you went out and got other people's opinion on it who look like they were trying to fit it into a globular reference, just as you are? Seems a bit circular to me.

So when you read the scripture for just what it says, when you envision a tent, you see a layer of air around a ball? Are you saying that was the expectation God had when He had that written? Also, which direction exactly is 'above' a globe earth?
 
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Cis.jd

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Why should have to lie and pretend the Bible doesn't teach globe earth when it does?
Because it does not. It also opens the doors for uneducated people who will demonstrate their bad reading skills and give the verses they say claim a 2d earth. Just leave the Bible and Science away, and only connect them through the bridge of Philosophy. We don't need science related confirmations in the Bible to prove it true (or false).
 
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Speedwell

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The flat earth movement seems to be one of those temporary movements which will decline and go back to the underground where it came from. In the meantime, this anarchist movement seeks to win people over to their worldview through the sensation of conspiracy theory which is based entirely on disinformation. The Holy Bible does not teach flat earth nor is there a flat earth tradition in Christianity. I would like to officially knock out the flat earth allegation leveled against the Bible by atheists once and for all. These lies being spread that the Bible is a flat earth book are not true.

The ground rules for this discussion is that the topic stays on the Biblical view and not arguments from the perspective of modern science. So if we want to understand the Biblical teaching we must stay on track.

I became a Christian back when I was 14 years old. When I first opened up my new NIV 1984 Edition Bible, I flipped open to the 40th Chapter of the Book of Isaiah and it didn't take long for my young and sharp eyes to notice verse 22. When I first read Isaiah 40:22 I knew right away what it was saying to me. I knew right then and there that God revealed the globular shape of the earth to Isaiah, and what I was taught in school about Columbus discovering the round shape of the earth was not true. I also knew I was reading a very ancient work so I knew better than to nit-pick on the circular description of the earth, as the earth is circular as seen in space, no matter what side of the earth you see.

There are actually over a dozen globe earth verses in the Bible.
The problem is, the Bible doesn't actually teach a spherical Earth. For one thing, the Hebrew underlying "circle" in that passage from Isaiah conveys no implication of sphericity whatsoever. It means "circle." It also means "compass" in the sense best conveyed in the context of the Isaiah passage by the old-fashioned English word "encompass."

But even if the word did also mean sphere one could not say that the Bible "taught" the sphericity of the Earth. You might deduce that it did by looking at the text in a certain light and making some other assumptions. That is to say, you might at most conclude that the Isaiah passage implied a spherical Earth, but you could not genuinely assert that the Bible taught it.
 
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SeventyOne

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When scriptures tell us the earth was created on day 1 as fixed and immovable, and then tells us the sun wasn't created for 3 more days, scriptural speaking, how does the immovable earth start moving around the sun?
 
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SeventyOne

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When God tells us in Job 38 that the foundation of the earth was laid out as clay under a seal, would that describe a sphere or a flat surface?

Here's such a seal for reference...
Clay seal.jpg
 
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FEZZILLA

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The problem is, the Bible doesn't actually teach a spherical Earth. For one thing, the Hebrew underlying "circle" in that passage from Isaiah conveys no implication of sphericity whatsoever. It means "circle." It also means "compass" in the sense best conveyed in the context of the Isaiah passage by the old-fashioned English word "encompass."

But even if the word did also mean sphere one could not say that the Bible "taught" the sphericity of the Earth. You might deduce that it did by looking at the text in a certain light and making some other assumptions. That is to say, you might at most conclude that the Isaiah passage implied a spherical Earth, but you could not genuinely assert that the Bible taught it.
Read post #5
 
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Speedwell

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Why should have to lie and pretend the Bible doesn't teach globe earth when it does?
Because it doesn't. You may think it implies that the Earth is a sphere, read according to your Protestant Bible commentaries, but it certainly teaches no such thing.
 
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FEZZILLA

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Because it doesn't. You may think it implies that the Earth is a sphere, read according to your Protestant Bible commentaries, but it certainly teaches no such thing.
I think a quotation from the Vulgate and Ambrose proves otherwise. You are debating with your emotions and have no authoritative sources to support your bias view on this subject.
 
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A_Thinker

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When scriptures tell us the earth was created on day 1 as fixed and immovable, ...

Scripture doesn't say that the earth was created on day 1 as fixed and immovable, ...

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

... and then tells us the sun wasn't created for 3 more days, scriptural speaking, how does the immovable earth start moving around the sun?

However God chose to make it happen, I would suppose ...
 
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A_Thinker

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When God tells us in Job 38 that the foundation of the earth was laid out as clay under a seal, would that describe a sphere or a flat surface?

Here's such a seal for reference...
View attachment 250005

I think that it is saying that the mountains and valleys were pressed into the surface of the earth, ... "as clay under a seal" ...
 
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A_Thinker

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When Job 26 described the creation of land from the waters as inscribing a circle on the face of the waters, is that describing a spherical or flat model?

Not enough information for a determination.

You can inscribe a circle on a flat surface ... or a sphere ...
 
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All the Bible states God created is heaven and earth.
That is the first statement that what God created, is not the same as what science has stated by saying there is a universe/outer space, which is what is needed for sciences big bag and millions of years for evolution, etc.. and the globe earth is a necessity for the lie of evolution.

Genesis 1 describes a creation that is nothing like what is taught by science.
 
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