The Holy Bible Teaches Globe Earth.

Hieronymus

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What proof do have for that assumption?
Lectures by Michael Heiser.
He's an ancient languages, religions and Bible scholar.
I have no need for round earth projections on the Biblical texts.
 
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SeventyOne

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The Spinning Globe Post.

Job 38:14, The Rotation of the earth

“It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment” (KJV)

Other Translations:

“It is turned as clay to fashion, and all stand up as a garment” (1599 Geneva Bible).

“It is turned like clay by the seal,
and it stands out as a garment” (MEV)

“It turneth itself as clay of a seal And they station themselves as clothed” (YLT).
___________________________________________________________________
Bible Commentaries

So it [the earth] is turning in a full rotation facing the dayspring (v.12). Henry Morris hammers this one down very well in his classic work The Remarkable Record of Job, p.40,

"Job suggests not only that the earth was suspended in space but also that it rotates about its north-projecting axis. “Hast thou commanded the morning since they days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; That it might take hold of the ends of the earth; that the wicked might be shaken out of it? It is turned as clay to the seal; they stand out as a garment” (Job 38:12-14). Though figurative language, this reflects a true physical process. God is pictured as taking hold of the two ends of the earth’s axis and turning it as if it were a clay cylinder receiving an impression from a seal. The seal toward which the earth is turned, however, is not a metallic pattern. Rather, it is the “dayspring,” evidently the sun fixed in its place.”

The Henry Morris Study Bible,

“38:14 turned. This figurative expression refers to God’s initiation of the earth’s rotation and the day-night cycle. Each night, like a rotating clay cylinder exposing the impressions of the seal, the earth turns to the sun (or “dayspring”), exposing the wicked and their works of the night.”

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Bible Commentary, Vol.2,

“14. Explaining the first clause of v.13, as v.15 does the second clause. As the plastic clay represents the various figures impressed on it by a seal, so the earth, which in the dark was void of all form, when illuminated by the day-spring, presents a variety of forms, hills, valleys, etc. “Turned” (‘turns itself’,’ Hebrew) alludes to the rolling cylinder seal, from one to three inches long, such as is found in Babylon, which leaves the impression on the soft plastic clay, as it is turned about: so the morning light rolling on over the earth. Rich (‘On the Ruins of Babylon’) in Barnes, says, ‘The cuneiform writing of these cylinder seals is reversed, or written from right to left, whereas every other cuneiform writing is to be read from left to right. This can only be accounted for by supposing that they were intended to roll impressions.’ they stand--the forms of beauty unfolded by the dawn stand forth as a garment in which the earth is clad.”

The Bible Knowledge Commentary, 1885 Edition

“38:12-15. God’s control of the earth also includes the daily sequence of dawn and darkness. The dawn causes the wicked, who are active at night (cf. 24:14-17; John 3:19), to hide. It is as if the morning light were shaking them out of a blanket (Job 38:13), causing them to be broken in their power (upraised arm, v. 15; cf. 40:9). As the sun comes up the earth’s contours become evident and the wicked no longer have darkness, which they call their light, in which to work. Since Job had nothing to do with establishing or controlling this aspect of Creation how could he question God’s doings now?”

The language of Job 38:12-15 is deeply figurative but the rotation of the earth can be clearly seen as well as the sun’s stationary position in the solar system, making this passage stand out as a garment of light to those who seek the depth of truth which turns in it’s revolution out of the darkness. This passage also helps interpret Job 26:10 “the boundary of light and darkness.”

*Note: figurative language is used to capture a deeper spiritual meaning.
___________________________________________________________________
Early Church Fathers on the Rotation of the Earth.

† St.Ambrose (337-397 A.D.)

The following quotations come from 4th century St.Ambrose from his work called the "Hexameron", from The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage.

“Consequently, the year, too, has the stamp of a world coming to birth, as the splendor of the springtime shines forth all the more clearly because of the winter’s ice and darkness now past. The shape of the circles of years to come has been given form by the first dawn of the world” (p.12).

The circle of years. That sounds like a spinning globe to me.

This next quotation from St.Ambrose is long but necessary for this subject. Here Ambrose defines what immovable earth means while also quoting from a Psalm in which the earth is moving! Ambrose is explaining how the earth abides by the laws ordained for it by God, that it will not fall down (since it is suspended in space, Job 26:7). The earth will not float away. It is a fixed sphere and will not move from its ordained laws.

“How the disposition of the earth therefore depends upon the power of God, you may learn also where it is written: ‘He looketh upon the earth and maketh it tremble,’ and elsewhere: ‘One again I move the earth.’ Therefore, the earth remains immovable not by its balances, but is moved frequently by the nod and free will of God, as Job, too, says: ‘The Lord shaketh it from its foundations, and the pillars thereof tremble.’ And elsewhere: ‘Hell is naked before him and there is no covering for death. He stretched out the north over the empty space and hangeth the earth upon nothing. He bindeth up the waters in his clouds. The pillars of heaven fled away and are in dread at his rebuke. By his power the seas are calmed, by his wisdom is struck down the sea-monster, and the gates of heaven fear him.’
By the will of God, therefore, the earth remains immovable. ‘The earth standeth for ever,’ according to Ecclesiastes, yet is moved and nods according to the will of God. It does not therefore continue to exist because based on its own foundation. It does not stay stable because based on its own props. The Lord established it by the support of His will, because ‘in his hand are all the ends of the earth.’ The simplicity of this faith is worth all the proffered proofs.
Let others hold approvingly that the earth never will fall, because it keeps its position in the midst of the world in accordance with nature. They maintain that it is from necessity that the earth remains in its place and is not inclined in another direction, as long as it does not move contrary to nature but in accordance with it. Let them take occasion to magnify the excellence of their divine Artist and eternal Craftsman. What artist is not indebted to Him? ‘Who gave to women the knowledge of weaving or the understanding of embroidery?’ However, I who am unable to comprehend the excellence of His majesty and His art do not entrust myself to theoretical weights and measures. Rather, I believe that all things depend on His will, which is the foundation of the universe and because of which the world endures up to the present” (pp.22-23).

“However, in the circular quality of a sphere these elements are confused and lose the impulse of their course, inasmuch as a sphere is turned around in its orb and hence the elements above change place with the elements beneath and vise-versa” (p.23).

The circular quality of a sphere [Strong’s H2328 - H2329]. This sphere is turned (Job 38:14). We can see how Ambrose is reading and interpreting Scripture.

The next citation from the Hexameron of St.Ambrose deals with how 4th century skeptics of the Bible claim that the earth cannot be a sphere because water could not remain on it.

“And first of all these interpreters wish to destroy the profound impressions which frequent reading of the Scriptures have made in our mind, maintaining that waters cannot exist above the heavens. That heavenly sphere, they say, is round, with the earth in the middle of it; hence, water cannot stay on that circular surface, from which it needs must flow easily away, falling from a higher to a lower position. For how, they say, can water remain on a sphere when the sphere itself revolves?” (p.52).

In the next quotation Ambrose begins the paragraph with “Scripture points out”, and then cites from Isa.40:22,

“And further on: ‘Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?’ Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (p.231).

† Clement of Alexandria (150-215 A.D.)

Clement was a 2nd century church father. The following is taken from his writing called The Instructor, which I’m citing from the very last page of Book III entitled To The Paedagous:

“And when the seasons, in their circling course,
Winter and summer, spring and autumn, each
Should come, according to well-ordered plan;
Out of a confused heap who didst create
This ordered sphere, and from the shapeless mass
Of matter didst the universe adorn;--
Grant to me life, and be that life well spent,
Thy grace enjoying; let me act and speak
In all things as Thy Holy Scriptures teach”
(Ante-Nicene Christian Library, Vol.1).

And the Holy Scriptures taught Clement about the sphere of the earth and the circular course (rotation) of the 4 seasons. How do you get 4 seasons on a flat earth anyway?

† St.Clement of Rome (35 - 99 A.D.)

"20.The heavens revolve by His arrangement and are subject to Him in peace. 2 Day and night complete the revolution ordained by Him, and neither interferes in the least with the other." (Clement of Rome; Ancient Christian Writers, Vol.1: "Epistle to the Corinthians," Chapter 20:1-2, p.22).

Even back in the 1st century A.D., 2000 years ago, long before the modern era of science, Clement of Rome read about a spherical earth that rotated on its axis. What verse are the ancient Christian church fathers reading? I believe its all in the Book of Job, as verses like Job 26:10 and Job 38:14 indicate how the earth turns (rotates). Even Job 37:12 expresses with similarity how the weather patterns of the earth move all around the habitable globe.
View attachment 250006

Is this what you will keep doing? Appealing to what other people say when trying to cram the meaning to a ball? Your whole concept is void of substance.
 
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SeventyOne

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1. 1 Samuel 2:8,


This is a verse about the setting of the earth on pillars. Not a globe.



2, Job 26:10,
Latin Vulgate: "terminum circumdedit aquis usque dum finiantur lux et tenebrae."


Exactly how does His inscribing a circle on the face of the waters make it a globe? This is a description of a flat surface.


3. Job 37:12,

Not sure where you copied and pasted this stuff from, but you might have wanted to read these verses first. This verse is describing the characteristics of the cloud mentioned in verse 11.


4. Psalm 18:15,

This mentions Him laying the foundations of the earth, where we are told elsewhere are fixed and immovable. Beginning to think you are a troll.


5. Psalm 19:4,

More 'tent over the world' language. More flat earth concepts.

6. Psalm 24:1,

This verse doesn't describe the shape of the earth at all.


I'm not even going to bother going through the rest of these. I'm presuming they are the same mess as the first 6.
 
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A_Thinker

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1 Chronicles 16:30: "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."

Psalm 93:1 "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..."

Psalm 96:10 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..."

Psalm 104:5 "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."

So ... you are applying later scripture, which speak of the Earth metaphorically ... BACK to Genesis ???
 
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Jonaitis

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The flat earth movement seems to be one of those temporary movements which will decline and go back to the underground where it came from. In the meantime, this anarchist movement seeks to win people over to their worldview through the sensation of conspiracy theory which is based entirely on disinformation. The Holy Bible does not teach flat earth nor is there a flat earth tradition in Christianity. I would like to officially knock out the flat earth allegation leveled against the Bible by atheists once and for all. These lies being spread that the Bible is a flat earth book are not true.

The ground rules for this discussion is that the topic stays on the Biblical view and not arguments from the perspective of modern science. So if we want to understand the Biblical teaching we must stay on track.

I became a Christian back when I was 14 years old. When I first opened up my new NIV 1984 Edition Bible, I flipped open to the 40th Chapter of the Book of Isaiah and it didn't take long for my young and sharp eyes to notice verse 22. When I first read Isaiah 40:22 I knew right away what it was saying to me. I knew right then and there that God revealed the globular shape of the earth to Isaiah, and what I was taught in school about Columbus discovering the round shape of the earth was not true. I also knew I was reading a very ancient work so I knew better than to nit-pick on the circular description of the earth, as the earth is circular as seen in space, no matter what side of the earth you see.

There are actually over a dozen globe earth verses in the Bible.

As a Christian, who does believe in a spherical earth, I disagree with you.

The Scripture were written with a "flat-earth" perspective, because the original audience only had this experience through their natural senses. Sure, pull a verse out of Isaiah to prove otherwise, but what about almost the rest of Scripture?

God had the Scriptures written in this perspective on account of the limitations of his people at the time of its writing, and spoke in a way that was relatable to the first readers and listeners.

Explain why doesn't Genesis speak about the formation of other planets? It begins with the earth after verse 1. I see this as God not finding it necessary to turn his inspired word into a science text book to gratify the speculations of men, but had what was written necessary for our learning.

You don't need to be up to date with today's science to understand anything in this book. You can have the education of the fifth century BC individual and still grasp the contents. I fear that we, in this day and age, are putting our modern lenses on the texts, such as Genesis 1, and interpreting passages the way they weren't meant to be understood.
 
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Jonaitis

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Here's another question: what do you imagine, other than the fact that it was dark, this passage?

"The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."

The next question is: would this have been the same imagery the children of Israel imagined when they heard or read this passage?

Again, I fear that our modern lenses are understanding the text in places like this differently than the way it was intended to be understood at the first. This text wasn't written for us only, but for all the succeeding generations since Moses...
 
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FEZZILLA

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Well, if you want to believe that the Bible "teaches" a spherical Earth, go right ahead. Many of us don't, and see no point in it anyway.
Your profile says that you are Anglican. If you have a Book of Common Prayer handy then look up the Psalms I listed. The BCP has the Psalter from the 1539 Great Bible which is considered a sister to the 1537 Matthew's Bible. Its also categorized as one of the Tyndale Bibles. Here is what you will find in your BCP

Psalm 89:12,

"The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine; * thou hast laid the foundation of the round world, and all that therein is."
The 1928 Book of Common Prayer: Instruction & Confirmation
 
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FEZZILLA

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Lectures by Michael Heiser.
He's an ancient languages, religions and Bible scholar.
I have no need for round earth projections on the Biblical texts.
So you have lectures by a 21st century heretic who is rejected by all reputable scholars. I can assure you that anything he says about the Bible I can effortlessly refute. You should also know that careless and vainglorious preaching is prohibited in the Christian faith. Christianity did not start 4 years ago. It began as a fulfillment of OT prophecies 2000 years ago in Judea. We Christians have records going back to the early church which is valuable information for us today when it comes to know what the early Christians believed.

† St.Augustine (354-430 A.D.)

It is very clear that Augustine believed in a spherical earth. The following citations are taken from Augustine’s book The Literal Meaning of Genesis, Vol.1. (Ancient Christian Writers, Vol.41).

“But if the light first created enveloped the earth on all sides, whether it was motionless or travelling round, it could not be followed anywhere by night, because it did not vacate any place to make room for night. But was it made on one side, so that as it travelled it would permit the night to follow after from the other? Although water still covered all the earth, there was nothing to prevent the massive watery sphere from having day on one side by the presence of light, and on the other side, night by the absence of light. Thus, in the evening, darkness would pass to that side from which light would be turning to the other” (p.33).

In the next citation Augustine is speaking about “The firmament in the midst of the waters.”

“Now we are seeking to know whether the Creator, who has ordered all things in measure, and number, and weight, has assigned to the mass of waters not just one proper place around the earth, but another also above the heavens, a region which has been spread around and established beyond the limits of the air” (p.47).

Augustine understands that in Scripture the waters of the earth span all around the earth. From Genesis 1 alone he gets a round, spherical earth with the firmament which spans to and beyond the limits of air and into space.

† St.Ambrose (337-397 A.D.)


The following quotations are from his book Hexameron, which is a commentary on Genesis chapter 1. The rest of his quotations come from The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage,

“Consequently, the year, too, has the stamp of a world coming to birth, as the splendor of the springtime shines forth all the more clearly because of the winter’s ice and darkness now past. The shape of the circles of years to come has been given form by the first dawn of the world” (p.12).

Ambrose is speaking about the birth of the earth on the first day of creation. Now it isn’t quite clear if he is speaking about sphericity of the earth or the earth’s movement around the sun. But the focus of his comment here seems to indicate the shape of the earth, possibly meaning several rotations of the earth to come in the years ahead.

More on the shape of the earth,

“However, in the circular quality of a sphere these elements are confused and lose the impulse of their course, inasmuch as a sphere is turned around in its orb and hence the elements above change place with the elements beneath and vise-versa” (p.23).

The circular quality of a sphere [Strong’s H2328 - H2329]. This sphere is turned (Job 38:14). We can see how Ambrose is reading and interpreting Scripture.

The next citation from Ambrose’ Hexameron deals with how the skeptics of the Bible claim that the earth cannot be a sphere because water could not remain on it.

“And first of all these interpreters wish to destroy the profound impressions which frequent reading of the Scriptures have made in our mind, maintaining that waters cannot exist above the heavens. That heavenly sphere, they say, is round, with the earth in the middle of it; hence, water cannot stay on that circular surface, from which it needs must flow easily away, falling from a higher to a lower position. For how, they say, can water remain on a sphere when the sphere itself revolves?” (p.52).

Sounds like a modern argument from flat earthers, doesn’t it? This just goes to prove that there were skeptics of the Bible then who doubted the earth was round and believed it was flat.

This one deals with how he arrives to the spherical earth concept. He begins the paragraph with “Scripture points out”, and then cites from Isa.40:22,

“And further on: ‘Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?’ Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (p.231).


† Origen (185-254 A.D.)

Origen of Alexandria was born in the 2nd century but his ministry would make him a 3rd century man. He is an Ante-Nicene church father who wrote On First Principles, which is the very first book on Theology ever written by a Christian. The following quotation is taken from the John C. Cavadini edition.

“Certainly what some say of this world, that it is corruptible because it was made, and yet does not go to corruption because the will of God, who made it and preserves it from being mastered by corruption, is stronger and more powerful than corruption, may more rightly be believed of that world which we have above called a “fixed” sphere, because by the will of God it is in no way “subject to corruption” (cf.Rom 8:20, 21), for the reason that it has not admitted the causes of corruption" (On First Principles, Book II, Chapter III, p.113).

Origen continues:

". . . . and the entire condition of the world we know, in which the spheres of the planets are said to be, is left behind and superseded, there exists above that sphere which is called "fixed" an abiding place for the pious and blessed, in as it were a "good land" and a "land of the living," which the "meek" and gentle will receive for an inheritance. To this land or earth belongs that heaven which, with its more magnificent circuit, surrounds and confines it, and this is the true heaven and the first to be so called" (On First Principles, Book II, Chapter III, p.114).

The spheres of the planets is a clear reference that Origen's reading of Scripture revealed that our earth is a sphere.


† Clement of Alexandria (150-215 A.D.)

Clement was a 2nd century church father. The following is taken from his writing called The Instructor, which I’m citing from the very last page of Book III entitled To The Paedagous:

“And when the seasons, in their circling course,
Winter and summer, spring and autumn, each
Should come, according to well-ordered plan;
Out of a confused heap who didst create
This ordered sphere, and from the shapeless mass
Of matter didst the universe adorn;--
Grant to me life, and be that life well spent,
Thy grace enjoying; let me act and speak
In all things as Thy Holy Scriptures teach”
(Ante-Nicene Christian Library, Vol.1).


And the Holy Scriptures taught Clement about the sphere of the earth and the circular course (rotation) of the 4 seasons. How do you get 4 seasons on a flat earth anyway?

† Clement of Rome (35 - 99 A.D.)

Clement of Rome is mentioned in the Bible (Php.4:3) and was consecrated by St.Peter to lead the church in Rome. His mention in Php.4:3 was by St.Paul who obviously also placed him in high esteem. He is the first of the early church fathers after the Apostles of Christ (or the first to leave a surviving Epistle behind). His words my not be Scripture, but they weigh heavy on how Scripture is interpreted. Quotations are taken from The Ancient Christian Writers series Vol.1. His Epistle To The Corinthians was written in 97 A.D. which is only one or two years after the Apostle John penned Revelation!

“Thus, by His transcendent might He established the heavens, and by His incomprehensible understanding He ordered them: the earth He separated from the water now encircling it, and firmly grounded it on the unshakable foundation of His own will” (33:3).

The waters encircle the earth which we also see from space. Remember Carl Sagan's tiny blue dot, well here it is described by 1st century Clement. The phrase "and firmly grounded it on the unshakable foundation of His own will” is a reference to Job 26:7.

In the next quotation, Clement speaks about the rotation of the earth:

"The heavens revolve by His arrangement and are subject to Him in peace. Day and night complete the revolution ordained by Him, and neither interferes in the least with the other" (20:1-2).

The next statement by Clement challenges everything modern people of the 21st century think they know about what the early Christians knew. This comment is about antipodes:

“The ocean, impassable for men, and the worlds beyond it are governed by the same decrees of the Master” (20:8).

Clement is speaking about antipodes which, in his time, was defined as people who lived on the other side of the earth, or who plant their footsteps opposite to ours. St.Augustine had trouble believing Clement and others about people living on the opposite side of the world. But as it turns out Clement of Rome was correct.

Back in the 1st century, crossing the oceans to other worlds was not by any means an easy feat and even seemingly impossible. But nevertheless, God still made the seemingly impossible very possible during the rise of Christendom when ship building would become more advanced and eventually Christians would make it over to the other side of the earth.


Origen Explains Clement’s Comment:

“Clement indeed, a disciple of the apostles, mentions those whom the Greeks call “people of the opposite earth,” and speaks of other parts of the world which none of our people can reach, nor can any of those who live there cross over to us; and these parts themselves he called “worlds,” when he says, “The ocean is impassable to men, and the worlds beyond it are governed by the same ordinances of God the Ruler” (On First Principles, Chapter III verse 6).

Who you gonna believe: 20th century liberal scholars or 1st a century church father appointed by the Apostle Peter? Clearly the Apostles and earliest of church fathers knew what chuwg meant and how it would translate into other languages. It never translated as a flat earth to them so why would we consider the petty word definitions of 20th & 21st century liberal scholars whose only motive was to appease evolutionists?

† Flavius Josephus (37-100 A.D.)

Josephus was a Jewish historian who wrote the Antiquity of the Jews in 70 A.D. We have seen how the earliest of Christian church fathers understood Scripture and now we will see how a Jewish historian understands Genesis.

“After this, on the second day, he placed the heaven over the whole world, and separated it from the other parts; and he determined it should stand by itself. He also placed a crystalline [firmament] round it, and put it together in a manner agreeable to the earth, and fitted it for giving moisture and rain, and for affording the advantage of dews” (Antiquity 1:30).

Josephus is describing how God, on the second day, placed a crystalline around the earth. This earth, not being held up by turtles or elephants or a whale, is determined by God to stand by itself (Job 26:7). You cannot place a firmament around the whole earth if the earth is flat or even a half-sphere. So here in the 1st century, both Josephus and Clement of Rome, refute modern liberal assumptions. Did Josephus know how to read Hebrew? Sure he did! He not only knew how to read Hebrew but was also a highly educated historian. So all these modern arguments which fool many have no weight in light of what we read from Josephus and Clement!

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FEZZILLA

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Is this what you will keep doing? Appealing to what other people say when trying to cram the meaning to a ball? Your whole concept is void of substance.
You preach only yourself here. I am citing from Christian authorities who disagree with your opinions.
 
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FEZZILLA

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Henry M. Morris is just a creationist that never accepted the full literal account of God's creation.
He rejected the scientist's evolution but from the same scientist believed their globe earth.
Henry Morris is a recognized authority on creationism accepted by all denominations which is why I quoted from him.
 
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Speedwell

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Henry Morris is a recognized authority on creationism accepted by all denominations which is why I quoted from him.
All denominations? There are many Christian denominations which will be surprised to hear it.
 
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FEZZILLA

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This is a verse about the setting of the earth on pillars. Not a globe.

1 Samuel 2:8,

"He reyseth vp the poore out of the duste, and lyfteth vp the begger from the dong hill: to set them among princes, and to enheret them with the seate of glory. For the pyllers of the earth are the Lordes, and he hath set the rounde worlde vpon them" (Strong's H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl -- 1537 Matthew-Tyndale Bible).

The pillars of the earth in this verse means saints.


Exactly how does His inscribing a circle on the face of the waters make it a globe? This is a description of a flat surface.

Latin Definition
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...4c2a62687719ea1a76371742677fba68aa357db0.html

English Compass/Encompass
Compass vs Encompass - What's the difference?


Not sure where you copied and pasted this stuff from, but you might have wanted to read these verses first. This verse is describing the characteristics of the cloud mentioned in verse 11.

Job 37:12,

Latin Vulgate: "quae lustrant per circuitum quocumque eas voluntas gubernantis duxerit ad omne quod praeceperit illis super faciem orbis terrarum"

✅Word: Orbis, from H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

English Definition
Orb definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Latin Definition
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...FWl7n7tTvGosTuN62LzTry39dH3o-PHcrdpLsNF_Bi2o0

English "Being turned by his guidance to their doing all that he commanded them upon the face of the habitable globe of the earth" (Strong's H2015 הָפַךְ hâphak, H4524 מֵסַב mêçab, H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl, H776 אֶרֶץ ʼerets -- 1876 Julia E. Smith Bible).


This mentions Him laying the foundations of the earth, where we are told elsewhere are fixed and immovable. Beginning to think you are a troll.

Does the Bible Teach a Stationary Earth That Never Moves?

One of the more favorite arguments from flat earthers are verses which say how the earth shall not be moved. This expression in modern English carries the opposite meaning that it originally meant in Hebrew. So in order to understand this ancient expression it is necessary to seek out an ancient scholar to define what it means.

How Do We Properly Interpret verses that say how the earth shall not be moved? St.Ambrose, a prominent 4th century church father, explains what those passages mean:

“How the disposition of the earth therefore depends upon the power of God, you may learn also where it is written: ‘He looketh upon the earth and maketh it tremble,’ and elsewhere: ‘One again I move the earth.’ Therefore, the earth remains immovable not by its balances, but is moved frequently by the nod and free will of God, as Job, too, says: ‘The Lord shaketh it from its foundations, and the pillars thereof tremble.’ And elsewhere: ‘Hell is naked before him and there is no covering for death. He stretched out the north over the empty space and hangeth the earth upon nothing. He bindeth up the waters in his clouds. The pillars of heaven fled away and are in dread at his rebuke. By his power the seas are calmed, by his wisdom is struck down the sea-monster, and the gates of heaven fear him.’
By the will of God, therefore, the earth remains immovable. ‘The earth standeth for ever,’ according to Ecclesiastes, yet is moved and nods according to the will of God. It does not therefore continue to exist because based on its own foundation. It does not stay stable because based on its own props. The Lord established it by the support of His will, because ‘in his hand are all the ends of the earth.’ The simplicity of this faith is worth all the proffered proofs.
Let others hold approvingly that the earth never will fall, because it keeps its position in the midst of the world in accordance with nature. They maintain that it is from necessity that the earth remains in its place and is not inclined in another direction, as long as it does not move contrary to nature but in accordance with it. Let them take occasion to magnify the excellence of their divine Artist and eternal Craftsman. What artist is not indebted to Him? ‘Who gave to women the knowledge of weaving or the understanding of embroidery?’ However, I who am unable to comprehend the excellence of His majesty and His art do not entrust myself to theoretical weights and measures. Rather, I believe that all things depend on His will, which is the foundation of the universe and because of which the world endures up to the present” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron" The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, pp.22-23).


So the immovable earth is an expression that means how the earth, which is suspended in space over nothing, will not fall or drift away from the laws God ordained for it; that the earth maintains its position in the solar system without corruption, as the laws ordained are fixed laws and will not change.

Origen (185-254 A.D.)

Origen is a Ante-Nicene church father who wrote On First Principles, which is the very first book on Theology ever written by a Christian. The following quotation is taken from the John C. Cavadini edition.

“Certainly what some say of this world, that it is corruptible because it was made, and yet does not go to corruption because the will of God, who made it and preserves it from being mastered by corruption, is stronger and more powerful than corruption, may more rightly be believed of that world which we have above called a “fixed” sphere, because by the will of God it is in no way “subject to corruption” (cf.Rom 8:20, 21), for the reason that it has not admitted the causes of corruption."

Notice how Origen calls this earth a "fixed sphere" which means the laws ordained by God for this earth will not go into corruption. When God created this earth and all that there is therein, He called it "very good" which means God did not create this earth to fall down from its position in the solar system or float away into space etc. That is what the immovable earth verses mean.

"The Lord reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved" (Ps.99:1).


More 'tent over the world' language. More flat earth concepts.

Tent means earth's atmosphere.

Psalm 18:15,

Latin Vulgate,
is Psalm 17:16: "et apparuerunt fontes aquarum et revelata sunt fundamenta orbis terrarum ab increpatione tua Domine ab inspiratione spiritus irae tuae"

✅Word: Orbis, from H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl

Orb, English Definition
Orb definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Latin Definition
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...FWl7n7tTvGosTuN62LzTry39dH3o-PHcrdpLsNF_Bi2o0

English "The sprynges of waters were sene, and the foundacyons of the rounde worlde were discouered at thy chidynge (O Lorde) at the blastynge and breth of thy displeasures" (Strong's H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl -- 1537 Matthew's Bible).

têbêl defined
46503575_10161103243135223_6829675694939701248_n.jpg

Psalm 19:4,

Latin Vulgate:
"in omnem terram exivit sonus eorum et in fines orbis terrae verba eorum."

✅Word: Orbis, from H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl

English Definition
Orb definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Latin Definition
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...FWl7n7tTvGosTuN62LzTry39dH3o-PHcrdpLsNF_Bi2o0

English: "Their line went forth into all the earth, and their words into the ends of the habitable globe. In them he set a tent for the sun" (H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl - 1876 Julia E. Smith Bible).


A tent for the sun
6a00d8341bf7f753ef019b003e90e1970b.jpg




This verse doesn't describe the shape of the earth at all.

Psalm 24:1,

Latin Vulgate:
"psalmus David prima sabbati Domini est terra et plenitudo eius orbis terrarum et universi; qui habitant in eo"

✅Word: Orbis, from H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl

English Definition
Orb definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Latin Definition
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...FWl7n7tTvGosTuN62LzTry39dH3o-PHcrdpLsNF_Bi2o0

English "A Psalme of Dauid. The earth is the Lordes, & all that therin is: the compase of the world, & al that dwell therein" (H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl -- 1537 Matthew's Bible).


I'm not even going to bother going through the rest of these. I'm presuming they are the same mess as the first 6.

It sucks preaching in your own authority. Your opinions are refuted by greater know facts.
 
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FEZZILLA

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A circle, inscribed on a sphere ...

The Bible was written in ancient Hebrew, not 21st century English. The word chuwg translates better to globe in 21st century English due to the fact that the globular application of "circle" has become obsolete in 21st century English. So when we evaluate the word "circle" from our 21st century English we do come up with a flat earth. However, the English rendering of chuwg meaning "circle" has always been understood to mean a 3D circle, a globe. Thus "circle" was a more poetic form used to describe a globe before the 21st century.

Isaiah 40:22,

Latin Vulgate:
"qui sedet super gyrum terrae et habitatores eius sunt quasi lucustae qui extendit velut nihilum caelos et expandit eos sicut tabernaculum ad inhabitandum"

✅Word: Gyrum (aka, Gyrus), from H2329: חוּג chûwg

Latin Definition
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...6xZdr1VYJgTQ4bTP6IrXghta4HftCpq2RT4krKufvdjLY

English: "It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (Strong's H2329: חוּג chûwg, -- Douay Rheims Bible).
sphere-circle.png


Isaiah also used Strong's H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl in Isaiah 34:1,

Latin Vulgate:
"accedite gentes et audite et populi adtendite audiat terra et plenitudo eius orbis et omne germen eius"

✅Word: Orbis, from H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl

Orb, English Definition
Orb definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Latin Definition
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...FWl7n7tTvGosTuN62LzTry39dH3o-PHcrdpLsNF_Bi2o0

English: "Come ye Heithen & heare, take hede ye people. Herken thou earth & all that is therin: thou rounde compasse & all that groweth there vpon" (Strong's H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl -- 1537 Matthew's Bible).
46503575_10161103243135223_6829675694939701248_n.jpg

Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl,

✅The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible. H8398


"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].
The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof."


✅ Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

✅Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).

Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).

Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).

In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".


✅New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Volume 4:

"9315. têbêl תֵּבֵל Nom. fem., world (#9315).
OT Found 36x exclusively in poetic texts, the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity. It sometimes occurs in parallelism with 'eres (Jer.10:12; Lam.4:12). Twice it is used together with 'eres, either to express "the whole earth" (Job 37:12), or perhaps in the sense of the inhabited earth (Prov.8:31). It is used frequently in contexts that associate it with Yahweh's creative act and that, as a result, express the stability or durability of the earth (1 Sam.2:8; Ps.89:11 [12]; 93:1; 96:10). It is used when the whole population of the world is referred to (Ps.24:1; 33:8; 98:7; Isa. 18:3; 26:9; Nah.1:5). Isaiah uses têbêl more than any other prophet, mostly in the context of universal judgment (Isaiah 13:11; 24:4; 34:1; cf. Ps.96:13; 98:9).
Land, earth: --> damd (ground, piece of land, soil, realm of the earth, #141); --> 'eres (earth, land, #824); --> têbêl (world, #9315)."

_____________________________________________________________________

Summary of Hebrew Lexicons on H8398: תֵּבֵל têbêl,

✅Strong's:
"; by extension, the globe;"

✅Gesenius': ",the habitable globe,"

✅TWOT: "First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth" <--AND--> "In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed."

✅New International: "the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity."
 
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FEZZILLA

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All denominations? There are many Christian denominations which will be surprised to hear it.
Your own Anglican Church agrees with Morris -- or maybe I should say Morris agrees with the Anglican Church. Did you look up Psalm 89:12 in your BCP?
 
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