Shutdown Poll

[Ringo84]

Oh, I'm all ears. Please tell me how Pelosi is equal in blame to Trump. I can't wait.
Ringo

 

[Dave-W]

https://i.imgflip.com/9j156.gif
Ringo

The repubs have decided to 100% back Trump on the wall and Pelosi says there is no way they will fund the wall. Neither side is willing to budge an inch.

 

[Ringo84]

The repubs have decided to 100% back Trump on the wall and Pelosi says there is no way they will fund the wall. Neither side is willing to budge an inch.

Nor should the Democrats budge an inch on this stupid and unnecessary wall. That doesn't mean that Democrats are equally to blame for the shutdown, since the whole thing started after Fox News and Ann Coulter baited Trump into a temper tantrum.

He even took the blame for the shutdown - on video. Aside from not exactly being the smarted bulb in the box (to put it mildly), Trump is almost 100% to blame for this (with some additional blame on Mitch for abandoning his Constitutional responsibilities).
Ringo

 

[evoeth]

Some of you have been changing votes. Don't worry! There will be a second poll when we hit 35 days.

 

[Dave-W]

Nor should the Democrats budge an inch on this stupid and unnecessary wall.

So you are dug into the same trench as Pelosi.

Build the wall or don’t build the wall; I really do not care one way or the other. I just want to go back to work.

 

[Dave-W]

Some of you have been changing votes. Don't worry! There will be a second poll when we hit 35 days.

LOL! Most of the choices are now invalid.

 

[Dave-W]

Trump is almost 100% to blame for this (with some additional blame on Mitch for abandoning his Constitutional responsibilities).

Say those who support the Dem position of no wall.

Those who support the Prez’s position say it is 100% the house Dem’s fault for not funding the wall.

Like I said - trench warfare.

 

[cow451]

Trump is in no hurry. Freeze all his accounts. And take all his keys. Lock him out of the White house. Maybe he might stop the shut down. And I say the same for the Congress .

Make him eat salads.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Make him eat salads.

That will end the shut down.

 

[camille70]

From a guy who has been furloughed (my wife too) for 30 days+ There is plenty of blame to go on both sides.

Kinda reminds me of the trench warfare of WW1. Both sides are dug in and not moving. And they keep tossing mustard gas canisters at each other.

I'm sorry to hear you and your family are directly affected by this. I'm hoping this is resolved quickly. I couldn't afford to miss a paycheck. I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't work for a month or more.

 

[Dave-W]

I'm sorry to hear you and your family are directly affected by this. I'm hoping this is resolved quickly. I couldn't afford to miss a paycheck. I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't work for a month or more.

Thanks. We are in better shape than most of our colleagues. My mom died in April and I have the $$ from the sale of her house banked so in theory we could go for a few months without.

That Said, I know of no one else in that good a shape. Food banks and other charities have been popping up all over the DC area here to assist.

 

[evoeth]

LOL! Most of the choices are now invalid.

The resolution of parametric models are fundamentally limited by sample size.

If you have a number of poll choices that are on the same order as the size of your sample (eg: there were 34 votes in this poll and 4 choices) then the sample cannot reasonably describe the population distribution.

I could have offered 20-30 categories of response. But then there would no good estimate of the population distribution.

Translation: this isn't a betting pool.

 

[Ringo84]

Say those who support the Dem position of no wall.

Those who support the Prez’s position say it is 100% the house Dem’s fault for not funding the wall.

Like I said - trench warfare.

Yeah, well...they can say whatever they like, but the facts don't fit their propaganda. Nobody wants this wall, and especially since Donny lied about Mexico paying for it. Thus, we have a shutdown that he caused.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

So you are dug into the same trench as Pelosi.

Build the wall or don’t build the wall; I really do not care one way or the other. I just want to go back to work.

I do understand. I just want federal workers to know who it is they can blame for being out of work.
Ringo

 

[NotreDame]

If the "president" is keeping the government closed, then I absolutely think it's hunting for them to align against him. Should country not take precedence over party considerations?
Ringo

Of course the general principle of "country" over "party considerations" is hard to quarrel with, such a principle being logical. The difficulty is not the principle itself. The difficulty is applicability of the principle to any set of facts and context. Similarly, the difficulty is the applicability of that principle to these facts and to this context. The question will always be when should "country" take "precedence over party considerations?" Is the present circumstance one which "country" should take "precedence over party considerations?" I do not want to digress too much but there are several reasonable arguments to be made that this is not an instance when the principle is applicable to Mitch to conjure up enough votes to override Trump's veto of any law not containing funding for a border wall.

But shouldn't Schumer and Pelosi, in placing country over party, similarly conjure up votes to pass legislation with funding for a wall?

Of course, Mitch's efforts to find enough votes in the Senate to overcome Trump's veto is an exercise in futility since Pelosi and the Dems, who control the House of Reps, do not have enough votes to override a Trump Veto.

 

[Ringo84]

The question will always be when should "country" take "precedence over party considerations?" Is the present circumstance one which "country" should take "precedence over party considerations?"

Yes.

I do not want to digress too much but there are several reasonable arguments to be made that this is not an instance when the principle is applicable to Mitch to conjure up enough votes to override Trump's veto of any law not containing funding for a border wall.

That's on topic, so I'd be curious to hear these supposedly reasonable arguments.

But shouldn't Schumer and Pelosi, in placing country over party, similarly conjure up votes to pass legislation with funding for a wall?

They're looking out for the country by not giving money for a lie that nobody wants and doesn't do the job it's supposed to do.

Of course, Mitch's efforts to find enough votes in the Senate to overcome Trump's veto is an exercise in futility since Pelosi and the Dems, who control the House of Reps, do not have enough votes to override a Trump Veto.

That's why they need his help to override one.
Ringo

 

[camille70]

It's being floated on twitter that McConnell agreed to put Trumps proposal and a dem proposal passed by the house up for a vote Thursday, but the nytimes article I was given as a reference didn't mention this.

Here is one of the tweets from a NYT reporter:

Sheryl Gay Stolberg on Twitter

 

[Ringo84]

I heard about this, and my gut reaction was to immediately distrust Mitch and assume that he's attempting some sort of "messaging" or shenanigans here.

My guess is that he's trying to get a "both sides" message out there when both bills fail. "Well, Republicans tried to open the government, but the Democrats' bill didn't pass either. I guess both sides are equally at fault here!"

Unfortunately, the media often (usually) amplifies this message because they're more interested in horse race coverage than objective, hard-hitting news.
Ringo

 

[camille70]

I heard about this, and my gut reaction was to immediately distrust Mitch and assume that he's attempting some sort of "messaging" or shenanigans here.

My guess is that he's trying to get a "both sides" message out there when both bills fail. "Well, Republicans tried to open the government, but the Democrats' bill didn't pass either. I guess both sides are equally at fault here!"

Unfortunately, the media often (usually) amplifies this message because they're more interested in horse race coverage than objective, hard-hitting news.
Ringo

I don't think it's accurate. Unless she linked the wrong story, the one she posted doesn't state this. McConnell posted on his timeline he is only bringing up Trumps proposal. His tweet was from 4 hours ago, and hers from one hour ago. I love twitter but I miss the days of normal, (fairly) truthful, daily press briefings to figure out what is going on with the government.

 

[Ringo84]

Thanks, Camille! Always enjoy your informative posts.
Ringo