What is the obligation of the Christian?

[ace of hearts]

Yes I like that version a lot.

But not enough to keep from twisting in into something I don't recognize.

 

[ace of hearts]

And did you notice that the NT kept quoting the OT LAWS?

Sure enough I did. I also noticed your favorite isn't quoted in the NT.

 

[BobRyan]

Sure enough I did. I also noticed your favorite isn't quoted in the NT.

oh that's right "Do no take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- never quoted in the NT.

And of course "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 never quoted as a statement promoted by anyone after the cross.

I forgot to mention that . thanks for bringing it up again.

And your point?

 

[ace of hearts]

I find it interesting that both the Sabbath keeping Christians and the Sunday keeping Christian Bible scholars agree on a few basics. Such as that God's TEN Commandments are included in the LAW of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 and that they applied to all mankind in Eden.

========================

Westminster Confession of Faith

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]

IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]

==================================== all TEN


The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Section 19

19. The Law of God

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
   
   
2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
   
   
3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
   
   
   
4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
   
   
   
5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
   
   
   
6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
   
   
   
7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

=================================


Notice the "details" in the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

1. TEN Commandments included in the LAW of God given to mankind in Eden.
2. SAME law given at Sinai as the MORAL Law of God.
3. That law binds all mankind after the cross and before it.
4. It is perfectly consistent with grace and therefore the Gospel
5. Laws OTHER than the TEN commandments were given to Israel and those other laws included the ceremonial laws - which are no longer in place after the cross.

The Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19 makes the SAME 5 points.

====================
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

===================



They all confess that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments were applicable to all mankind in Eden.
D.L. Moody is very explicit on the Sabbath Commandment in Eden.

==================== D.L. Moody on the Sabbath Commandment

The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.


THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
from: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

Do you have a degree in religion covering those you seem to know more about than the people subscribing to them. Want to discuss your religion?

 

[ace of hearts]

oh that's right "Do no take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- never quoted in the NT. I forgot to mention that . thanks for bringing it up again.

Neither is the 4th commandment your favorite.

 

[BobRyan]

Do you have a degree in religion covering those you seem to know more about than the people subscribing to them. Want to discuss your religion?

Feel free to start a thread in the SDA section of CF

 

[BobRyan]

Sure enough I did. I also noticed your favorite isn't quoted in the NT.

oh that's right "Do no take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- never quoted in the NT.

And of course "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 never quoted as a statement promoted by anyone after the cross.

I forgot to mention that (since I almost always do mention it) . thanks for bringing it up again.

And your point?

Neither is the 4th commandment your favorite.

Ex 20:11 God "created the heavens and the earth the seas and springs of water"
Rev 14:7 worship Him "who created the heavens and the Earth and the springs of water"

Gen 2 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Ex 20 " and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy
Heb 4 "“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”


Heb 4 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for mankind"

Acts 18:4 every "Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles in the synagogue to hear more Gospel preaching and to worship God.

-- that is an example of "not mentioned" in the NT that I am NOT talking about when I say --

oh that's right "Do no take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- never quoted in the NT.

And of course "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 never quoted as a statement promoted by anyone after the cross.
=============================

Because in the case of the Deut 6:5 and Ex 20:7 they actually are not mentioned as I point out.

 

[ace of hearts]

Feel free to start a thread in the SDA section of CF

So you can get me banned. No thanks. Hate is repulsive to me.

 

[ace of hearts]

oh that's right "Do no take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- never quoted in the NT.

And of course "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 never quoted as a statement promoted by anyone after the cross.

I forgot to mention that (since I almost always do mention it) . thanks for bringing it up again.

And your point?



Ex 20:11 God "created the heavens and the earth the seas and springs of water"
Rev 14:7 worship Him "who created the heavens and the Earth and the springs of water"

Gen 2 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Ex 20 " and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy
Heb 4 "“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”


Heb 4 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for mankind"

Acts 18:4 every "Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles in the synagogue to hear more Gospel preaching and to worship God.

Hey something from the NT.

Heb 4 "“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”
The word rest here means to desist as it does in Gen 2.

Heb 4 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

The word used here is sabbatismos. The word sabbaton isn't used. So the verse says nothing about the sabbath.

Your quote of MK 2:27 is used of out of context disagreeing with Moses in Ex 31:13, 17. So pick your liar here.

-- that is an example of "not mentioned" in the NT that I am NOT talking about when I say --

Your Acts 18:4 isn't mentioning the 4th commandment and isn't a command to keep the sabbath. The talking about something isn't a command, it's a discussion.

 

[Dkh587]

oh that's right "Do no take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- never quoted in the NT.

And of course "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 never quoted as a statement promoted by anyone after the cross.

I forgot to mention that (since I almost always do mention it) . thanks for bringing it up again.

And your point?



Ex 20:11 God "created the heavens and the earth the seas and springs of water"
Rev 14:7 worship Him "who created the heavens and the Earth and the springs of water"

Gen 2 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Ex 20 " and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy
Heb 4 "“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”


Heb 4 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for mankind"

Acts 18:4 every "Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles in the synagogue to hear more Gospel preaching and to worship God.

-- that is an example of "not mentioned" in the NT that I am NOT talking about when I say --

oh that's right "Do no take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- never quoted in the NT.

And of course "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 never quoted as a statement promoted by anyone after the cross.
=============================

Because in the case of the Deut 6:5 and Ex 20:7 they actually are not mentioned as I point out.

his/her fingers are in his/her ears. Stop wasting your time.

 

[ace of hearts]

his/her fingers are in his/her ears. Stop wasting your time.

 

[SkyWriting]

There seems to be a holy war about what the Christian is obligated to preform after being born again. I'd like to see both sides of this war supported with Scripture.

We have no "obligation" to do anything after the Grace is given with forgiveness.

Galatians 2:19-21
For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for

if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

 

[SkyWriting]

It's debated here what "the Law of the Spirit" actually is. Would you please explain what you think it is?

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[ace of hearts]

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

That law isn't the covenant law given to Israel.

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

 

[BobRyan]

That law isn't the covenant law given to Israel.

The Law in Jer 31 is the same LAW that Jeremiah and his contemporary readers knew about (exegesis matters as it turns out) and all Bible scholars know that Jeremiah knew the Ten Commandments were included in the moral law of God...

It is the Law that defines what sin is according to Paul in Rom 3:19-20
John also points this out in 1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW" which is the "Commandments of God" 1 John 5:2-3
It is where "the fifth commandment is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

The "agreement" is not the same as at sinai (different covenant) but the LAW is the same so that means it is "still a sin" to "take God's name in vain"... as it turns out.

 

[BobRyan]

We have no "obligation" to do anything after the Grace is given with forgiveness. .

Until you read the writings of Paul.
1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you;

Rom 6
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

 

[BobRyan]

Sure enough I did. I also noticed your favorite isn't quoted in the NT.

oh that's right "Do no take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- never quoted in the NT.

And of course "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 never quoted as a statement promoted by anyone after the cross.

I forgot to mention that (since I almost always do mention it) . thanks for bringing it up again.

And your point?

Neither is the 4th commandment your favorite.

Ex 20:11 God "created the heavens and the earth the seas and springs of water"
Rev 14:7 worship Him "who created the heavens and the Earth and the springs of water"

Gen 2 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Ex 20 " and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy
Heb 4 "“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”


Heb 4 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for mankind"

Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles in the synagogue to hear more Gospel preaching and to worship God.

-- that is an example of "not mentioned" in the NT that I am NOT talking about when I say --

oh that's right "Do no take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- never quoted in the NT.

And of course "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 never quoted as a statement promoted by anyone after the cross.
=============================

Because in the case of the Deut 6:5 and Ex 20:7 they actually are not mentioned as I point out.

Hey something from the NT.

Heb 4 "“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”

True - that is from the New Testament -- nice of you to notice.

Your quote of MK 2:27 is used of out of context disagreeing with Moses in Ex 31:13, 17.

Interesting accusation... but you did not prove your accusation was based in fact. Were you not interested in proving your point?.

So pick your liar here.Your Acts 18:4 isn't mentioning the 4th commandment

Let's read it.

Acts 18
4 And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

Both Jews and Greeks meet in the synagogue "every Sabbath" to hear Gospel preaching -- instead of "Just for one or two Sabbaths then they change to start observing week-day-1".

Every Sabbath -- means that even those who were accepting the Gospel -- kept meeting "Sabbath aftere Sabbath" for more Gospel preaching.


5 But when Silas and Timothy came down from Macedonia, Paul began devoting himself completely to the word, solemnly testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. 6 But when they resisted and blasphemed, he shook out his garments and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” 7 Then he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God, whose house was next to the synagogue. 8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

 

[SkyWriting]

Until you read the writings of Paul.
1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you;

Rom 6
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Paul was born a legalist and died one. If He had spent time with Jesus, his attitude would have been different. Most of what he said, you could not imagine Jesus teaching.

 

[BobRyan]

We have no "obligation" to do anything after the Grace is given with forgiveness. .

Until you read the writings of Paul.
1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you;

Rom 6
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Paul was born a legalist and died one. If He had spent time with Jesus, his attitude would have been different. Most of what he said, you could not imagine Jesus teaching.

There is a certain consistency in your "solution" to villianize Paul in pursuit of your rejection of what the Bible calls "the commandments of God". You could either have your preference and reject Paul or accept Paul and reject your preference... clearly you choose the former.

 

[ace of hearts]

The Law in Jer 31 is the same LAW that Jeremiah and his contemporary readers knew about (exegesis matters as it turns out) and all Bible scholars know that Jeremiah knew the Ten Commandments were included in the moral law of God... the Law that defines what sin is according to Paul in Rom 3:19-20 and according to John in 1 John 3:4 where "the fifth commandment is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

The "agreement" is not the same as at sinai (different covenant) but the LAW is the same so that means it is "still a sin" to "take God's name in vain"... as it turns out.

No because you're refusing the contents of verse 32. To say what you're posting is to say I'm not a Christian because I've no desire to keep the 7th day sabbath. God loves me.