Anti-Christ Location and Mystery Babylon?

[JohnB445]

Do the two seem to tie in? Mystery Babylon is said to sit on many waters.

Anyone have an idea of what that means, or where? Or what the Mark of the Beast may be or even if the Mark is already here or so.

 

[d taylor]

Mystery babylon is Rome,
Rev 17:18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

The only city at John's writing (Rev) that ruled over the kings of the earth was Rome.


The mark of the anti christ will be exactly like the Bible states
He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

The king of the north after he is mortally wounded becomes the beast, he receives the spirit from one of Romes past rulers.

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition.

Rev 17:10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

 

[timewerx]

Do the two seem to tie in? Mystery Babylon is said to sit on many waters.

Rome did at the height of the empire.

And the "Mark of the Beast" is very obviously pointing to the coin money of Rome. "Mark" in Greek in context refers to "engraving" which you'll find in a coin both the image of the leader and also a number.

At one point, Rome forced the adoption of their coins and replacing other local coins with theirs. And obviously, you won't be able to buy nor sell unless you're dealing with Roman coins/money.

Jesus actually taught how you deal with the "Mark of the Beast"/money. You give it back to Caesar (pay your taxes in full), use money to seek the Truth, find the lost, and help the poor - not to "help yourself" with it as Judas did where he used money for mostly his own benefit, and don't save too much of it.

That it is made evident that the mark is not on your head (proof that you don't love money because loving money is hatred of God - Luke 16:13)

 

[Jeshu]

A spiritual analysis of the great prostitute is unfaithful love and this is clearly religion herself, as she drinks the blood of all the saints. The Dragon accuser has her riding on his back for unfaithful love always sucks up to the system/beasts of this world and utilises it. To labour for world kingdoms and or use your by this world created mind means carrying the number 666.

Anti-Christs are spiritual forces that contradict Jesus and His teachings. Dishonesty, lust, arrogance, greed and selfishness for example are all anti-Christ material. The lawless one within, the one doomed to destruction - will always be revealed as an anti-Christ.

Once carried off by this world it is hard to escape. Babylon wont let the exiles go home - it is hard to free yourself from her grasp!

Peace

 

[ewq1938]

Do the two seem to tie in? Mystery Babylon is said to sit on many waters.

Waters symbolize people. Babylon means confusion, especially religious confusion. This is when the false God claims to be God and the Apostasy happens and this person, the Ac/false prophet will rule the world.

Anyone have an idea of what that means, or where?

It will be global.

Or what the Mark of the Beast may be or even if the Mark is already here or so.

The mark does not even exist until the two beasts of Rev 13 appear and the image of the beast is commanded to be built...so it's not here yet.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Rome did at the height of the empire.

And the "Mark of the Beast" is very obviously pointing to the coin money of Rome. "Mark" in Greek in context refers to "engraving" which you'll find in a coin both the image of the leader and also a number.

At one point, Rome forced the adoption of their coins and replacing other local coins with theirs. And obviously, you won't be able to buy nor sell unless you're dealing with Roman coins/money.

Jesus actually taught how you deal with the "Mark of the Beast"/money. You give it back to Caesar (pay your taxes in full), use money to seek the Truth, find the lost, and help the poor - not to "help yourself" with it as Judas did where he used money for mostly his own benefit, and don't save too much of it.

That it is made evident that the mark is not on your head (proof that you don't love money because loving money is hatred of God - Luke 16:13)

Very interesting post.

The Denarius is mentioned in Revel 6:6......................

Matthew 22
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, "why make ye trial of Me, ye hypocrites?
19 Show me the tribute money". And they brought unto Him a denarius.
20 And He saith unto them, "whose is this image<1504> and superscription?"
21They say unto Him, "Caesar's".............
[Mark 12:15-16 Luke 20:23-24]

Mark 12
15 "Shall we give, or shall we not give?" But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them,
"why make ye trial of Me? Bring me a denarius, that I may see it".
16 And they brought it. And He saith unto them, "whose is this image<1504> and superscription?" And they said unto him, "Caesar's".

Luke 16:14
Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.
Luke 20
23 But He perceived their craftiness, and said unto them,
24 "Show me a denarius. Whose image<1504> and superscription hath it?"
And they said, "Caesar's".

This denotes famine, such as what happened in the siege of Jerusalem in 70ad:

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

*snip*

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers...........

.........Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for want of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.



.

 

[timewerx]

Very interesting post.

The Denarius is mentioned in Revel 6:6......................

Matthew 22
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, "why make ye trial of Me, ye hypocrites?
19 Show me the tribute money". And they brought unto Him a denarius.
20 And He saith unto them, "whose is this image<1504> and superscription?"
21They say unto Him, "Caesar's".............
[Mark 12:15-16 Luke 20:23-24]

Mark 12
15 "Shall we give, or shall we not give?" But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them,
"why make ye trial of Me? Bring me a denarius, that I may see it".
16 And they brought it. And He saith unto them, "whose is this image<1504> and superscription?" And they said unto him, "Caesar's".

Luke 16:14
Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.
Luke 20
23 But He perceived their craftiness, and said unto them,
24 "Show me a denarius. Whose image<1504> and superscription hath it?"
And they said, "Caesar's".

This denotes famine, such as what happened in the siege of Jerusalem in 70ad:

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

*snip*

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers...........

.........Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for want of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.



.

The system is still very much alive to this day. Behind the powers of the global Banking system is the Roman Empire working behind the scenes.

The engraving / art style of money (both paper money and coin) is still based on ancient Roman and very much influenced by the worship of their pagan gods.

Particularly, the worship of "Mammon" - any deity that promises power and wealth over worship, obedience, and admiration of it.

Hatred of God (despite what one professes, actions speak louder than words) is made evident if one loves money - Luke 16:13. And if you hate God, you will also hate the Christ and therefore, be an antiChrist.

Because if you love money, you will not use money to seek the Truth or use it to help our brothers and sisters in need. Unable to do what the Father asks of us (John 14:12). You will use it for fulfilling your own pleasures and achieving comfort in this world. Use it mostly to benefit only yourself or your own family.

 

[Revealing Times]

1. In Daniel 2' great statue, the iron and clay are sain to be MIXED with the seed of men. That means 'intermarried.' The word mixed that describes the toes mingled with iron and clay is the Aramaic word "arab." It denotes an Arabian or Arabia. NOT ROME, ITALY. The word 'Arab' is a variation of the word, "crossed."

The Aramaic word arab has nothing to do with the Arab's, it means MIXING like it states.

#6151 H6148; TWOT - 2927; v

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) to mix, join together
1a) (Pael) mixed (participle)
1b) (Ithpael) mixed (participle)

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
(Chaldee); corresponding to H6148; to commingle:—mingle (self), mix.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

• #6151.
• עֲרַב
• arab (1107d); (Ara.) corr. to the root of 6154a; to mix:—
• NASB - combine(2), mixed(2). h

—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

The proper name Arab or Arabian (and cognates in other languages) has been used to translate several different but similar-sounding words in ancient and classical texts which do not necessarily have the same meaning or origin. The etymology of the term is closely linked to that of the place name Arabia. Gustave E. von Gronebaum, in his book Classical Islam said that an approximate translation is passerby or nomad.

Semitic etymology
The root of the word has many meanings in Semitic languages including desert, nomad, merchant, raven and comprehensible with all of these having varying degrees of relevance to the emergence of the name. It is also possible that some forms were metathetical from عبر ʿ-B-R "moving around", and hence, it is alleged, "nomadic."

In Hebrew the words ʿarav and ʿaravah literally mean "desert" or "steppe". In the Hebrew Bible the latter feminine form is used exclusively for the Arabah, a region associated with the Nabateans, who spoke Arabic.

The Aramaic word used means Mixing.

Now Islam is a huge part of the Harlot, as is Buddhism, Hinduism, witchcraft etc. all.

Babylon = the Whole World just as Rev. 16:19 says.

 

[Douggg]

Mr. Bunker, you need to find some bible verses of the muslim dajjal doing what muslims say he is going to do or the dajjal at all, in order to have...

The beast - some kingdom of islam leader when the 7 years begins, who will get kiled and brought back to life as the beast. And all the muslims in the world worship him as God (a violation of the basic fundamental beliefs of muslims - which is a no-go for the Islam theory)

The false prophet - the Mahdi spiritual leader of Islam. The 12th iman for Shi muslims.

dajjal - ??? missing corresponding verses about this person in bible prophecies.

_________________________________________________________________

The muslim theory, as well as, the pope/papacy is the Antichrist/beast/false prophet theory are partial scenario theories which fall to meet the complete end times picture.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Rome did at the height of the empire.

And the "Mark of the Beast" is very obviously pointing to the coin money of Rome. "Mark" in Greek in context refers to "engraving" which you'll find in a coin both the image of the leader and also a number.

At one point, Rome forced the adoption of their coins and replacing other local coins with theirs. And obviously, you won't be able to buy nor sell unless you're dealing with Roman coins/money.

Jesus actually taught how you deal with the "Mark of the Beast"/money. You give it back to Caesar (pay your taxes in full), use money to seek the Truth, find the lost, and help the poor - not to "help yourself" with it as Judas did where he used money for mostly his own benefit, and don't save too much of it.

That it is made evident that the mark is not on your head (proof that you don't love money because loving money is hatred of God - Luke 16:13)

The mark of the beast has a specific time line. Antichrist survives a mortal wound at about the same time the two witnesses are killed and raised up to ascend to heaven. The antichrist is given conrolr ovre the whole earth for 42 months. the false prophet will create the image of the beast that men must worship as well as receive the mark, or name or number of the beast on their hands or foreheads. Those who do not worship the image or take the mark are beheaded. So obviously this is not Roman coinage and to dismiss the future view is quite dangerous. Rev warns not to ad or take away from the book. I am sure you mean well in sharing the historical view but nothing the two witnesses have not been here; nothing happened 42 months after the antichrist got his dominion. No one was beheaded at this time on a global scale. The future view would require Israel to be gathered as a nation; Check a one world goverment to be forming, in progress That government would have to divide Jerusalem; in progress the return of the daily sacrifices would need to be prepared for with plans and all for the 3rd temple, they have prepared everything for it. The world's moral compass would have to be greatly corrupted so this day would come as a deserved judgment, check The technology that if the LORD did not return no life would have survived if He did not intervene; check Jerusalem would have to be a troublesome stone to the whole world/ check the church would have to largely apostate and many teaching doctrines of demons/ check. The current stage is set exactly as the futurist would suppose it would be.

 

[Revealing Times]

The 'book' version of Strong's says, "Arabia, an Arabian." In the online version Gesenius says,...

View attachment 248623
You said,

Not one verse or passage suggest such a thing. The word GREAT means LARGE, not many!

In the Bible, the name Arab is the first word used in the second book of Chronicles 17:11 to refer to nomads from the east bank of the Jordan river in the time of king Jehosophat (900-800 B.C.), such as "...and the Arabians brought him flocks, seven thousand and seven hundred rams, and seven thousand and seven hundred he- goats."

2 Chronicles 17:11 Also some of the Philistines brought Jehoshaphat presents, and tribute silver; and the Arabians brought him flocks, seven thousand and seven hundred rams, and seven thousand and seven hundred he goats.

Strong's # H6163

'Arabiy'

Arabian = see Arabia "mixed"

1. an inhabitant of Arabia
   1. steppe-dweller

You realise Daniel was in Babylon and wrote in Chaldee Aramaic, not in Hebrew in the first 6 or 7 chapters. Then he switched to Hebrew I think in the latter half of the book.

Scholars know what it means brother in this instance. Think about it, Clay and Iron don't MIX !!

It means one of two things, either at the END TIMES when Satan is cast down to earth, it stands for mankind following/mixing with Satan/Devil rule, and we know that mankind following Satan is not the solid rock foundation that Jesus is. So Jesus SMASHES the feet, which means he destroys the Beast and his followers..............OR it means the Rome Beast suffered the Mortal Wound and then for eons Europe stayed fractured, trying to INTERMINGLE the seed of men (Kings) to recreate the European Empire (Roman Empire) of yesteryear, but just as Clay and Iron don't mix they will not be able to unite except in a fractured manner of many small countries, not Kingdom arises for many years, then the Beast comes along at the end.

I tend to go with the first option, my understanding, Satan is the Clay and MEN following devils will not be allowed to stand. Jesus is going to SMASH that idea/STATUE.

 

[parousia70]

Rome did at the height of the empire.

And the "Mark of the Beast" is very obviously pointing to the coin money of Rome. "Mark" in Greek in context refers to "engraving" which you'll find in a coin both the image of the leader and also a number.

At one point, Rome forced the adoption of their coins and replacing other local coins with theirs. And obviously, you won't be able to buy nor sell unless you're dealing with Roman coins/money.

Jesus actually taught how you deal with the "Mark of the Beast"/money. You give it back to Caesar (pay your taxes in full), use money to seek the Truth, find the lost, and help the poor - not to "help yourself" with it as Judas did where he used money for mostly his own benefit, and don't save too much of it.

That it is made evident that the mark is not on your head (proof that you don't love money because loving money is hatred of God - Luke 16:13)

Interesting Post. Can't say I disagree.

There are two identifiable "marks" in Revelation.

The sealing of the 144,000 jews is accomplished by a mark in the forehead in parallel fashion to the MARK of the beast in the forehead. (see Rev. 9:4 and Rev. 7:2-8 and Rev 14:1). (NOTE: futurists are never consistent on this: if one is physical-literal then shouldn't both MARKS should be seen as physical-literal? Yet just ask a futurist who is the "computer chip manufacturer" today who is producing the "Mark of God," and they have no answer. However, they could speculate all day and night on which technology company is in cahoots with satan to produce his computer implant. I propose that Bill Gates is working on the "Mark-of-God chip implant" for the 144,000. )

John for certain didn't have computer chips in mind at all when he wrote the passage. Rather, as in so many other parts of Revelation, he was quoting the Old Testament. The following passages should be carefully examined when discussing "the mark on the forehead or hand" that marks people for doom or salvation:

Ez. Chapter 9 -- angels mark people for God's destruction of Jerusalem in 6th Century B.C.

Deut 6:8, Deut 11:18, Exodus 13:9 -- God's marks commanded to be upon the head and hands of his people to show their faithfulness

John's notions in his vision are related to Old Testament concepts -- not modern day conjectures that the MARK of the beast is to be thought of as some computer product.

WALSTIB

 

[Douggg]

It's only a no-go in your head. Muslim's already bow down toward a black rock in Mecca 5times a day. Regardless who the Mahdi is, Muslim's will bow to anyone who fulfills the innermost desire of their heart and that is take out enough of Israel to capture the old city of East Jerusalem.

Your theory is like saying all Christians are no longer going believe Jesus is the messiah. Not worshipping a man claiming to be God, and also an image made of him to be worshiped, is fundamental to Muslim belief.

Do you know why in the muslim countries in the middle east why all their mosques are adorned with geometric art and not art of humans? Because it is considered idolatry.
__________________________________________________________

I want to know where you are finding the muslim dajjal in the real bible prophecies?

 

[Douggg]

A Revived Roman Empire and/or a unified one world religion unified by the Pope!

There is the...

muslim Mahdi view
pope/papacy view
roman empire, end times, view

Which one of those has a military to carry out the beast's agenda?

 

[Lost4words]

Interpretation. Its all down to that one word.

Are people interpreting Revelation correctly? I dont think so.

 

[Douggg]

Iran, Turkey, Iraq, ISIS, Al qaeda, take your pick. The entire region believes in the Mahdi or Islamic prophecy in one way or another. The beast is a 10/7 alliance Middle-East Arab/Persian nations dominated by Islam. It's not a global empire like everybody has been taught.

Those countries would not stand a chance against the west. It is not whether they believe in a Mahdi or Islamic prophecy; it is if the view of Islam and muslim countries fulfills the end times prophecies of the bible, of the 7 year 70th week.

You need to look at Iran, Turkey, are aligning with - Russia. Setting up for Gog/Magog. Which will be right before the 7 year 70th week.

 

[Revealing Times]

I've read some of your relies on the forum and all I can say is WOW!

I know what I believe and why I believe it. You're still stuck on the two main theories evangelical dispensationalist have been pushing for a while now. A Revived Roman Empire and/or a unified one world religion unified by the Pope!

Mixed = Arab and the iron represents the Sunni sect and the clay represents the Shia sect.

WRONG....It has nothing to do with the Arabs......Islam will be WIPED OUT.

As per the facts I pointed out: This is just not in dispute.

The Book of Daniel was originally written in two languages. From the beginning of the book through Daniel 2:3 it was originally written in Hebrew. In Daniel 2:4 the prophet switched to Aramaic, the language of the Babylonians, and used that language through the end of chapter 7. This corresponds with the portion of the book dealing primarily with Gentile Dominion. Beginning in chapter 8, the rest of the book is in Hebrew again, since the focus of the last 5 chapters is primarily on Israel.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Dr. D Bunker said: ↑
I've read some of your relies on the forum and all I can say is WOW!

I know what I believe and why I believe it. You're still stuck on the two main theories evangelical dispensationalist have been pushing for a while now. A Revived Roman Empire and/or a unified one world religion unified by the Pope!

Mixed = Arab and the iron represents the Sunni sect and the clay represents the Shia sect.

WRONG....It has nothing to do with the Arabs......Islam will be WIPED OUT.

As per the facts I pointed out: This is just not in dispute.

The Book of Daniel was originally written in two languages. From the beginning of the book through Daniel 2:3 it was originally written in Hebrew. In Daniel 2:4 the prophet switched to Aramaic, the language of the Babylonians, and used that language through the end of chapter 7. This corresponds with the portion of the book dealing primarily with Gentile Dominion. Beginning in chapter 8, the rest of the book is in Hebrew again, since the focus of the last 5 chapters is primarily on Israel.

Good post. I found that out when studying on the use of the phrase "son of man" in an earlier post [link below].
The book of Ezra also appears to be in Aramaic.

Ezr 4:11 (This is a copy of the letter that they sent him)
To King Artaxerxes from your servants, the men<606> of the region beyond the River, and so forth:
Ezr 6:11
Also I issue a decree that and man<606> alters this edict, let a timber be pulled from his house and erected, and let him be hanged on it; and let his house be made a refuse heap because of this.

Testimonium Flavianum
"The Son of Man"

Daniel 7:13 uses the Aramaic word #H606

606 'enash en-awsh' (Aramaic) or renash (Aramaic) {en-ash'}; corresponding to 582;
a man:--man, + whosoever.

Daniel 7:13
'I was seeing in the visions of the night, and lo, with the clouds of the heavens as a son of man<606> was one coming, and unto the Ancient of Days he hath come, and before Him they have brought him near.

In Daniel 8:17, like Ezekiel, Daniel also falls on his face and the Hebrew word for "adam" is also used"

Daniel 8:17
And he cometh in near my station, and at his coming in I have been afraid, and I fall on my face, and he saith unto me:
Understand, son of man/adam<120>, for at the time of the end is the vision.


.

 

[ewq1938]

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

To speak like a dragon is to speak blasphemies.

Or it is the dragon in disguise.

"Two horns like a lamb." That means, two sects SIMILAR to Christianity.

Can you prove that horns here can mean two sects of a religion? What scriptures show this as a true symbology?

Candlesticks represent churches but horns do not.

 

[ewq1938]

The mark of the beast has a specific time line. Antichrist survives a mortal wound

No he does not. He receives no wound at all the entire length of the GT then is cast into the LOF when Christ returns.

at about the same time the two witnesses are killed and raised up to ascend to heaven. The antichrist is given conrolr ovre the whole earth for 42 months.

Yes but not when the two prophets are resurrected. They do that the same day the trib ends and Jesus returns.

the false prophet will create the image of the beast that men must worship

No, he does not create the image of the beast.