Anti-Christ Location and Mystery Babylon?

[Marilyn C]

It doesn't mean that. It means the FP is in complete and full control of the beast kingdom. There is only one singular person ruling the world at that time, the AC which is called the FP in Rev. There is no person mentioned at all regarding the Rev 13:1 beast. That is a government of many people spanning the whole world not the Ac. The AC comes as the second beast. The same pattern is found in Daniel as well.

Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power.
Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power.

Same "players" and same order of appearance.

Little horn = false prophet = antichrist.

Hi ewq,

`Then the beast was captured, and with HIM the false prophet....these TWO were cast alive into the lake of fire...` (Rev. 19: 20)

Marilyn.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi John,

Yes, the city of Babylon in Iraq, at present being rebuilt, will be the location of the anti-Christ`s seat of Power. The anti-Christ is called the Assyrian, (Syria & Iraq) and will bring together the very terrifying and mighty power of Islam.

That is why that area, Syria and Iraq have again come into world focus. After the Russia and their allies try to wipe out Israel, and God deals with them, then the world demands that peace in the Middle East. Who but a Moslem, one who is deceitful and cunning, can make such a peace with Israel. God`s word says he comes in peaceable and by deception, and step by step gains credence locally, nationally and world wide.

Marilyn.

The LORD referred to Israel as Sodom at times and the historical Babylon of old is really not going to work unless we have a very long time to go. Perhaps the idea of the tower of Babel and unified world is more what we should be looking for. The specifics regarding this city are the merchants of the world have all been made rich through trading with her. Her great men were the great merchants of teh earth. All the nations have committed fornication with her too. The merchants weep when it is destroyed because no one will buy their goods anymore. The consumed the luxury goods of the world and exported a lot of evil and were guilty of killing many martyrs. For a rebuilt Babylon to fit they would have rise to be the #1 economic engine of consumption for the entire world. People deny the US is in prophecy but if you look at these specifics; if the tribulation were to start today only one nation fits. The US has paid for the building of all the great cities of the world through our consumption of the worlds goods. Dubai, Taiwan, Shang Hai, Seoul, many cities in Japan and China. The US crated the UN which is the structure for global government. The US exported the central bank money system and the drug, music and inappropriate content industries as well as the toxic chemicals around the world. Our men of industry are the great men of the earth. The great seal of the US has the pyramid with the all seeing eye on it with the cap stone floating above. If these events are nigh then the US or NY perhaps is the logical choice. The annual GDP
Iraq/Gross domestic product.
197.7 billion USD (2017) This is a drop in the bucket of global GDP.

Search Results
United States of America/Gross domestic product
19.39 trillion USD (2017)

The US trade deficit
The U.S. trade deficit added up to almost $503 billion in the first 10 months of 2018. That compared to about $451 billion in the same span in 2017. The last time the U.S. trade deficit was higher was in 2008, when it topped $700 billion.Dec 6, 2018

This is how much more we spend bringing stuff in than we make sending stuff out. You think the merchants might weep over this market going up in smoke? If we have 50 years or so it might change. But the US has been this engine for global economy for a long time. So the reference to it as Babylon the great city might refer to the tower of Babel being the theme of a united one world government and that name being given to the modern day equal. Just as Israel was not Sodom and called by that name when they behaved like them.

 

[friend of]

This is how much more we spend bringing stuff in than we make sending stuff out. You think the merchants might weep over this market going up in smoke? If we have 50 years or so it might change. But the US has been this engine for global economy for a long time.

So then what.... the American economy is the harlot? Or the international trade system? I mean, most of the world does hate the USA, so you can see the verse which says that the kings hate the harlot and strip her and burn her with fire as applying to the USA. But at the same time, those rules would probably rely on the USA as being that nexus for global trade.

Revelation also states that God himself will destroy Babylon...

 

[Marilyn C]

The LORD referred to Israel as Sodom at times and the historical Babylon of old is really not going to work unless we have a very long time to go. .

Hi Brian,

Thanks for all the good information. Now the city of Babylon will definitely be a marvel & built very quickly. The UN and the USA are pouring in finance to fund the ancient site area. Historic tourism is the fastest growing tourist industry, and people will flock to see the beginnings of civilisation at Babylon.

God`s word tells us that the Assyrian is the anti-Christ. He comes from the area of Syria & Iraq, (ancient Assyria). This is why that region has come again into world focus and is in the throes of bringing forth the long awaited Moslem Messiah.

Also the river along the city is being widened to enable large ships to come up from the Persian gulf area.

As to being the `economic engine` we see in God`s word that the infrastructure of the Global Economy will move to `Shinar` which we know is the area of Babylon. It is presented in a symbolic picture. (Zech. 5: 5 - 11)

Something to watch. Marilyn.

 

[Revealing Times]

Egypt and Assyria are NOT the world rulers God revealed in the Great Image. There were only 5 World Rulers. That theory is wrong and not Biblical. `Heads,` in God`s word refers to leaders, and with the added description of `mountains,` that indicates that those leader are most important, of very high position.

Why would God need to reveal PAST Kingdoms to Daniel ?

1.) It would have confused the Prophecy God was trying to get Nebuchadnezzar to understand.

2.) It was Nebuchadnezzar's dream, he thought of himself as the Greatest and God allowed him to see it this way, if he was 3rd instead of first that might have been curtains for Daniel. It is not for us to know all of God's reasonings.

3. Since we know what a Beast Power is as per Daniel ch. 7, we understand Egypt and Assyria dominated the Region as a Beast Power, that is just a fact. Seven Heads Arise out of the [Mediterranean] Sea, meaning these Kingdoms were all Dominant Powers in the region !! Then we are told five have fallen, and they can only be the five I named.

Egyptian Empire Map they were Beasting over Israel in Egypt and Israel's land and the region.

Assyrian Empire Map

Babylonian Empire Map

Persian Empire Map

Grecian Empire Map

Five had Fallen ABOVE:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Roman Empire Map = ONE IS

The Coming Anti-Christ/Little Horn Kingdom = One is yet to come

Notice how the Roman Empire Map and the European Union Neighborhood Policy Map are almost exactly the same when you add on the Southern states they have 7 YEAR AGREEMENTS with ? These are THE MANY that enter into an Agreement with the Anti-Christ/Little Horn of Europe.

Every Kingdom above is a POWER on the Mediterranean Sea !! They AROSE out of the Sea.

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Dan. 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Not being mentioned in Daniel has no effect on the fact that Egypt and Assyria both Beasted of Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region. It's just a fact. John showed us all the Beasts because he was looking backwards in time. Daniel was only shown the Four Beasts and the Coming Little Horn Beast.

 

[Revealing Times]

You've accepted the typical Revelation 17 pipe dream the so called experts have been promoting. The beast in chapter 17 has NO historical elements to it. It's completely a latter day beast, and the KJV does no justice to the correct translation of the passage.

I accept nothing but guidance from the Holy Spirit. I have written a blog on the subject, and have a thread on the subject on this very site. The Beast is Rev. 12, 13 and 17 are all the Same Beast as per the 7 Heads and 10 Horns. But the personage/entity being designated in each chapter is done so by the CROWNS in each chapter or the lack of CROWNS. Rev. 12 is about Satan because the Heads have a Crown on them. Rev. 13 is about the Anti-Christ/Little Horn because the Crowns are on the 10 Horns who the Anti-Christ will be over. Rev. 17 is about Apollyon, the Demon who was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan, but since hes under Satan in the spiritual realm he has NO CROWNS anywhere !!

In Rev. 13 thus we see that there is a Historical reference to this Beast.

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns (Anti-Christ designee), and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (Babylon): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death (Rome); and his deadly wound was healed:(Anti-Christ) and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

So we see Babylon, Persia and Greece specifically mentioned here brother. That is HISTORICAL !!

Babylon, The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained

I'll repeat myself as often as necessary to get this message across.

John is taken into the desert to see the judgment of the great harlot in chapter 17. Mecca and Medina reside in the desert. Rome, the UN, the EU, and the USA does not. Islam has also been called "the desert religion." The birthplace of Babylon the Great and the harlot of Babylon is in the desert of Arabia a place called Mecca and Medina, known as the glory of Kadar in the OT. Blasphemy? There is no religion more full of blasphemy than Islam.

John is taken to THE WILDERNESS a place where all the Prophets went many times, it means a place of solitude/quiet.

#2048 ἔρημος eremos {er'-ay-mos}

of uncertain affinity; TDNT - 2:657,255; adjective

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) solitary, lonely, desolate, uninhabited

Of uncertain affinity; lonesome, that is, (by implication) waste (usually as a noun, G5561 being implied):—desert, desolate, solitary, wilderness.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

Point being, of course a desert is a place that is desolate/quite/uninhabited, but the emphasis/point is not that it must be a desert but a place of solitude and quietness, uninhabited by people. Thus its like unto where Apollyon is at, locked in the bottomless pit. When we see Rev. 12 we see a sign in the Heavens because Satan has yet to be cast out of Heaven. And in Rev. 13 we see John standing on the [Mediterranean] Sea shore !!

Nowhere does it say Desert brother.

Finish later, getting long.....

 

[Revealing Times]

Some translations say, "five have fallen." or FIVE ARE FALLEN....is a mistake.

The word ARE is a third person plural present indicative. This passage isn't a reflection of PAST world empires. It is a picture of a complete end-time entity. There are seven kings, "FIVE FALL" is the correct translation. That's how it's worded in the interlinear.

I study the Greek in depth. The passage should be They are ALSO Seven Kings and Five HAVE FALLEN................its pretty straight forward as we see below.

#4098 G4072 through the idea of alighting; TDNT - 6:161,846; v

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) to descend from a higher place to a lower
1a) to fall (either from or upon)
1a1) to be thrust down
1b) metaph. to fall under judgment, came under condemnation
2) to descend from an erect to a prostrate position
2a) to fall down
2a1) to be prostrated, fall prostrate
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

The first is a reduplicated and contracted form of the second (which occurs only as an alternate in certain tenses); probably akin to G4072 through the idea of alighting; to fall (literally of figuratively):—fail, fall (down), light on.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

So the Greek word means TO FALL. If it was not 5 that had FALLEN why is that ONE IS.....and one is YET TO COME ? I can't wait to see your Houdini act trying to get out of this one....SMILE....

Just like the four beast Daniel prophesy's about in Daniel 7, these kings are all present on earth at the same time.

The four Kingdoms of Daniel 7 all arose and ended at different times !!

This is how it look in the interlinear... ...AND KINGS SEVEN ARE THE FIVE FALL AND THE ONE IS THE other NOT- as- yet CAME AND when-EVER he-MAY-BE-COMING FEW(briefly) him it-IS BINDING TO-REMAIN...

We know what it means brother, the better question is why are you trying to twist it to mean something it doesn't really mean ? THINK NOW, you have tunnel vision, so you have to try and make it fit what you believe brother. We an all catch ourselves doing that if we are not careful.

How did these ancient empires ascend out from the bottomless pit? How can the ten horns, and/or the 7 heads, "have no kingdom as yet but receive power ONE hour with the beast? How can these ancient empires have ONE mind and SHALL give their power and strength to the beast...AND HOW did they make war with the Lamb and the Lamb overcome them...IF ALL but ONE or two are an ancient empire? Any answers?

Apollyon (a Demon) is the one who is locked in the bottomless pit, not Kingdoms, thus he was OF THE 7, but he is an 8th. Remember Paul told us about PRINCIPALITIES IN HIGH PLACES ?

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17, thus he has NO CROWNS, he is cast into the pit by God once Israel is Dispersed, he was/is the Destroyer and his job was to destroy Israel, but God locked him in the bottomless pit when the Church came along and Israel became as Dead Men's Bones. God will release him when the Church is Raptured in Rev. 9:1 at the 1st Woe.

The Figurative Seven Headed Beast has been DORMANT for nigh 2000 years, when the 7th Head Conquers Jerusalem he is THE BEAST POWER of his time just like Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome were the BEAS POWERS of their time, so the 10 [end time] Kings freely give their power unto this MAN/Little Horn/Man of Sin/Anti-Christ known as THE BEAST. He is called the Beast in Dan. 7:11 where his BODY is destroyed and in Revelation 19:20 where he is cast into hell.

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So THE BEAST has a BODY which is DESTROYED and then cast into HELLFIRE !!

The 7 Kingdoms are never said to give their power unto the Beast. It says the 10 Kings (Horns) give their power unto the Beast for ONE HOUR which means for 42 Months, that us why when Babylon in Rev. 18 receives Judgment for ONE HOUR we know it's for 42 Months.

Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

So the 10 Horns/Kings have ZERO to do with the 7 Heads, except for the Last Beast Head is the Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast that they give their power unto in the end time. So the BEAST and his 10 Kings are the 10 Toes of the Statue !! They are end time Kings, not a part of the other 6 Beast Heads per se.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

So then what.... the American economy is the harlot? Or the international trade system? I mean, most of the world does hate the USA, so you can see the verse which says that the kings hate the harlot and strip her and burn her with fire as applying to the USA. But at the same time, those rules would probably rely on the USA as being that nexus for global trade.

Revelation also states that God himself will destroy Babylon...

Hi my thinking on this whole passage is looking at the clues given. This is the nation that is the one they got all the other nations together. Psalm 2 is a latter day psalm and it notes the nations have taken counsel together against the LORD and His anointed to cast off their bonds. The kings of the earth have lived luxuriously with her and if you look around the world where there is a lot of poverty the kings or leaders live in palaces with great wealth. The destruction comes in one day and seems to be specific location although a system is in place that was probably conceived and organized through Babylon. At this time the US in the nation with the influence having created the world system post WW2 and is behind the consolidation of power to the UN or NWO as Bush used to call it. Here is a short video on the NWO that pretty much shows that it is intended to be a UN run organization. Many people have no idea that the UN is already running much of the US government. They have NGO groups that form alliances of cities and counties and they create zoning laws based on the UN agenda 21 plan for global sustainable development. Furthermore they have created a thing called the UN earth charted and made new age ark of the covenant to put the thing in and even had it carried on poles and placed in the UN building. The symbolism is this document has replaced the 10 commandments. The implementation is much further along than you think. My main take away is God will judge the wicked and knows what is going on and who has done what. I am certainly taking an educated guess at this point. Do we see the nations taking counsel together against the LORD? Seems to me the merger of left wing liberals and Islam is a joining together against a common enemy as Islam has nothing in common with the liberal platform other than they want open borders for Muslims to enter other countries yet are kicking out non Muslims from their own countries and even other Muslims not of the same sect. There is no equality or tolerance in Islam and this merger is a sign to note.

 

[Revealing Times]

You AGAIN have accepted a theory the 'prophecy experts' have been promoting for a long time that is easily debunked. You believe that Daniel 2 and 7 are repeat prophecies. IOW, they both depict the same kingdoms. Why was it necessary for God to have Daniel duplicate the prophecy of Daniel 2 in chapter 7? What was lacking that required repetition? Why repeat the same sequence of kingdoms of Daniel 2 in chapter 7?

It is the Same Kingdoms......that one was an easy reply. Basically no one agrees with your position. One is about Nebuchadnezzar's dream and the other was showing us the Kingdoms in depth. They also tell us about a 5th Beast the coming Little Horn that Daniel 7:11 calls a BEAST with a BODY who is cast into HELLFIRE. The Little Horn is not mentioned in Dan. ch. 2 but is mentioned in Dan. 7 and 8 giving us two places in which he must arise from at the exact same time. He arises from or is born in Greece as the Assyrian Turk, who comes to power in the E.U. as Greece is in the E.U.

Daniel chapter 7 was written about 35 years after Daniel's vision of the great statue in chapter 2, and in the first year of Belshazzar who was the last king of Babylon. Chapter 7 depicts four end-time beast, and has nothing to do with chapter 2.

Chapter 7 represents exactly what it Says, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the END TIME Beast the Little Horn, a man.

Interpreters claim the Lion of Daniel 7 is Babylon. How can the lion be Babylon when the date of the vision occurred in the first year of Belshazzar who was the last king of Babylon and the Babylonian Empire had already risen some 50 years before and was on it's way out when Daniel 7 was written! Why would Daniel prophesy about a kingdom that was already in existence for about 50 years and soon to end?

You aren't the first person to repeat this stuff, I just SMH at it. But of course you have to take ou Babylon to fit in your "BELIEFS" which won't fit with Babylon there. I understand.

Most people think the wings being plucked off and the heart of a man given to it refers to Nebuchadnezzar going mad and being restored 7 years later. That's unlikely since that happened about 20 years before Daniel had the vision making Daniel no less than a false prophet.

Look, all of your reinterpretations will move no one. People like you way over think these things to try and fit in your beliefs, stop determining the outcome beforehand.

The word before in 7:7 says that this beast "was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns." The Hebrew word for "before" is ‘qodam’ which means "in front of, in the presence of, not "historically before" as is commonly interpreted. This means the first three empires will be in the presence of (or stand before) the anti-Christ kingdom when it emerges. They are all end-time kingdoms. The fourth "dreadful and terrible" beast is the one most people focus on. It's said to be 'diverse' from the others. It is definitely associated with Islam if not Islam itself!

It can mean either, according to the context like most Hebrew words. In Joel BEFORE the Day of the Lord does mean in the Presence of, but here since we know Babylon, Persia and Greece were BEFORE Rome, we know it means BEFORE as in BEFOREHAND. You rry way to hard brother to rearrange things to FIT your beliefs, that is a no no, that will take us down wrong paths.

You have to do that to fit in Islam, which will be WIPED OUT via Rev. 17:16, she is the biggest part of the Harlot. The DIVERSE is not understood clearly brother, I will show you what it really means.

ALL THE BEASTS WERE DIVERSE did you know that ? WATCH: Most people don't catch this.

Dan. 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

So ALL THE BEASTS were Different, so what does verse 23 and 24 mean ?

Dan. 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast (Rome) shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms(Verse 3 AGREES all are DIVERSE)), and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them (Anti-Christ); and he shall be diverse from the first (BOOM), and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time(1260 Days).

Do you get the BOOM ? Notice the he in verse 24 isn't different from ALL THE BEASTS like in verses 23 and 3, but the HE (Anti-Christ) in verse 24 is different from THE FIRST !! And it's not referring to Babylon. It is referring to the FIRST BEAST of the Fourth Kingdom !! The one that suffered the Mortal Wound according to Rev. 13. And that would be Rome !! That is why the Little Horn ARISES from the Fourth Kingdom in the End Times. The Beast in verse 23 is Rome, the Beast in 24 is the Anti-Christ who arises with the 10 Horns/Kings like Rev. ch. 17 says.

This throws you off, you see his Little Horn as END TIMES and think they are all END TIMES but they are not. The Statue shows the SAME THING, Babylon to Rome then the END TIME 10 toes.

Notice how the word BEFORE is used in the following verses....
God's hand is "stretched out before Him" meaning in front of Him.

I have already explained this, I study all things Hebrew, Greek, etc. etc.

 

[Revealing Times]

Here we go with the line, "I accept nothing but guidance from the Holy Spirit." Have you ever considered that others also have and are guided by the holy spirit? Have you ever considered that changing your mind is something the holy spirit wants us to do?

I don't care about what others do or don't do, that changes nothing with me. Should Paul or Peter have worried about someone else's teachings/beliefs over what God was guiding them into as per their understandings ? Answer, of course ot unless it was also of the Spirit, and they would have known because the Spirit beareth witness of the Spirit. Likewise, I can what is of the Spirit and what is not of the Spirit. I might not call it out, but that is because I have empathy on those confused, especially as concerning Eschatology, it's hard for some people to grasp.

I am corrected by the Holy Spirit all the time, but never after being convicted by the Holy Spirit on an issue, the Holy Spirit can't change up on us once its revealed it will stay a steadfast truth.

I use to believe what you do.

Yes the wilderness is the desert. In fact the word is almost always associated with the desert...

2048. eremos er'-ay-mos of uncertain affinity; lonesome, i.e. (by implication) waste (usually as a noun, 5561 being implied):--desert, desolate, solitary, wilderness.

solitary, lonely, desolate, uninhabited

1. used of places
   1. a desert, wilderness
   2. Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

I explained this, no use rehashing it brother.

If you do as you say, "study Greek in depth" then why don't you look at the Textus Receptus which the KJV is translated from, and why don't you accept the true meaning of the word ARE?

KINGS
SEVEN
they-are
FIVE
FALL

Take a look if you don't believe me. There's no denying it!

I have all the Hebrew and Greek original texts just like you do. But if you are a real student you would know that just because an ARE is not in thE passage means nothings, the Hebrew didn't even have vowels THE FIVE FELL means exactly what it says, out of THE SEVEN....FIVE FELL, one is and one is yet to come. It couldn't be any clearer, you take a position and try to mold the bible to it. Islam is NOTHING as per the End Times, that is just a fact, it will be wiped out.

Rev. 17:10 And kings seven eisin : The five fell , the at Estin , the others until recently unknown came , and when elthῃ few Him seen meinai , And rulers of- seven they-be ; ones-the five they-fell , the one- one it-be , the one- other not-unto-whither it-had-came , and which also-ever- it-might-have-had-came, to- to-it- it-bindeth to-have-stayed ,

They never ended because they haven't arrived yet! (They however likely here today) If they did that means Daniel's use of the word BEFORE/IN THE PRESENCES OF makes him a false prophet. You say the first lion beast if ancient Babylon. That kingdom rose about 50 years before Daniel wrote Chapter 7 making him a false prophet. A prophet cannot prophesy about a kingdom rising that already rose without making him a false prophet!

Sure.......GET OUT MAN......Daniel gave the original interpretation to King Nebuchadnezzar, then he added the Little Horn portion later because it was written as instruction for the Jews. You better be careful calling Daniel a False Prophet, that is asinine thinking brother. John gave us the birth of Jesus in Rev. 12, the Dragon trying to kill him and the Woman (Israel) fleeing, but it was not prophetic uttering per se. The Rev. 12:6-17 portion was PROPHETIC, likewise, Daniel gave the Little Horn portion IN CONTEXT with his other prophetic utterings, but this time they were seen by Daniel as BEASTS !! God sees them as EVIL POWERS (Beasts) and Nebuchadnezzar saw them as Precious metals !! So Daniel needed to retell the Prophecy for Israel to FOREWARN them that these were BEAST POWERS that would Conquer Israel, and they would also have a Little Horn that would arise out of the Fourth Beast, a MAN who will Conquer Israel and the whole world. They are not just Precious Metals !!

Don't prop up your false views by accusing me of twisting, having tunnel vision and making things fit. I've heard it all too often when someone's views are seriously challenged. The better question is "why have you accepted a theory that literally makes Daniel a false prophet?" I know why? You're listening to the teachings of others who are even more misled than you are!

LOLOL......SMH.

There ARE 7 kings, five fall is the correct interpretation. So answer my question!

"How did these ancient empires ascend out from the bottomless pit?

How can the ten horns, and/or the 7 heads, "have no kingdom as yet but receive power ONE hour with the beast, most of them are ancient empires?

How can these ancient empires have ONE mind and (SHALL) give their power and strength to the beast?

AND HOW did they, these ancient empires, make war with the Lamb and the Lamb overcome them...IF ALL but ONE or two are an ancient empire?"

Repeating this over and over is not going to change the facts.....you were wrong the first time and every time you spoke these sentences, and that's not going to change.

 

[Revealing Times]

Your BOOMS aren't working. Just so you know, lots of people, those who have a hermeneutic anyway, who looked at Daniel 7 without adhering to their preconceived ideas, realize that Babylon had risen 50 years before the Daniel 7 prophecy, and they realize that the word qodam means 'in the presence of' just like it does in the dozen or so verses I quoted. Ray Stedman use to teach the version you currently believe in, but before he passed, he did what you should do, he changed his mind for the reasons I just described!

Ohhh I understand, the only thing that will work on you is ignoring you....Believe me, I get it.

 

[mark kennedy]

Mystery babylon is Rome,
Rev 17:18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

The only city at John's writing (Rev) that ruled over the kings of the earth was Rome.


The mark of the anti christ will be exactly like the Bible states
He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

The king of the north after he is mortally wounded becomes the beast, he receives the spirit from one of Romes past rulers.

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition.

Rev 17:10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

The Antichrist might be a throwback to the Parathian terror from the east. The bow in the hand of the first rider at the opening of the first seal might be a clue. Babylon is going to be a city, somewhere in the Mediterranean, perhaps a man made island where the illgotten loot of the Antichrist make her incredibly wealthy.

 

[Marilyn C]

Why would God need to reveal PAST Kingdoms to Daniel ?

1.) It would have confused the Prophecy God was trying to get Nebuchadnezzar to understand.

2.) It was Nebuchadnezzar's dream, he thought of himself as the Greatest and God allowed him to see it this way, if he was 3rd instead of first that might have been curtains for Daniel. It is not for us to know all of God's reasonings.

3. Since we know what a Beast Power is as per Daniel ch. 7, we understand Egypt and Assyria dominated the Region as a Beast Power, that is just a fact. Seven Heads Arise out of the [Mediterranean] Sea, meaning these Kingdoms were all Dominant Powers in the region !! Then we are told five have fallen, and they can only be the five I named.

......
Every Kingdom above is a POWER on the Mediterranean Sea !! They AROSE out of the Sea.

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Dan. 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Not being mentioned in Daniel has no effect on the fact that Egypt and Assyria both Beasted of Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region. It's just a fact. John showed us all the Beasts because he was looking backwards in time. Daniel was only shown the Four Beasts and the Coming Little Horn Beast.

Hi Revealing Times,

Those are mainly your thoughts which are not Biblical. You say it is not for us to know God`s reasoning, yet you say that it would have confused the prophecy, that is presuming God`s thoughts. We know what God says in His word and it is clear that Babylon was the first gentile World Ruler.
You need to think more closely -

1. King Neb`s dream was God`s overview of World Rulers NOT those who just came against Israel. It shows the time span of when the Gentiles RULE the world. That is what God will judge, Gentile Rulership.

2. The 5 World Rulers of the Great Image are NOT the same as the 4 beastly super powers of Dan. 7. Those powers operated at the same time. The time when God would set up His kingdom through Israel.

`It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet.` (Dan. 7: 7) How can Rome tread down Babylon`s rulership which was long judged and gone?

`...the beast was slain....as for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.` (Dan. 7: 12)

How can the ancient world rulers survive when God has judged their rulership and they were no more. They are NOT in the time when God sets up His world rulership through Israel. Those `beasts` are super powers of today.

As to John`s vision, God is revealing the composite beast of modern day super powers that make up the last Gentile world ruler. ALL the other world rulers have been judged by God and are gone. Any governments on land they formally had are yet to be judged. There will be NO reviving of governments that God has judged!

Marilyn.

 

[Revealing Times]

That's the typical cop out line I get from people who's beliefs have been seriously challenged.

No, its me not wanting to chat with a wall......

I have been in Prophecy 30 years, and I can tell that you basically just don't get it, and you think you do, so I would just be wasting my time. You can call it what you want, matters not to me.

 

[ewq1938]

Hi ewq,

`Then the beast was captured, and with HIM the false prophet....these TWO were cast alive into the lake of fire...` (Rev. 19: 20)

Marilyn.

That doesn't mean "him" is a person. Beast in the Greek is a masculine noun and so the pronoun is always masculine. Rev 17 explains that the first beast is not a person but 7 areas of land with ten kingdoms.

 

[ewq1938]

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. "

Some translations say, "five have fallen." or FIVE ARE FALLEN....is a mistake.

The word ARE is a third person plural present indicative.

Firstly, the second word "are" isn't in the Greek manuscripts at all nor is it a verb anyways. The word there is pipto and it is a verb.

Tense: Second Aorist
Voice: Active
Mood: Indicative

The second Aorist is typically translated in the past tense so it is correctly translated.

There is not one translation I can find that does not use the past tense so either practically every Greek scholar in history was wrong or you are wrong.

So, "five are fallen" is correct and your claim otherwise is incorrect.

 

[ewq1938]

ARE isn't past tense! Are is...

Are can't be in past tense because it doesn't exist in the "five are fallen" nor is it even a verb. I already explained that to you. The verb is FALLEN and it is past tense. No credible Greek scholar will agree with you on this.

5 of the 7 kings had fallen in the past, one was falling when John wrote it. There was only two left which still have not risen.

 

[Revealing Times]

Hi Revealing Times,

Those are mainly your thoughts which are not Biblical. You say it is not for us to know God`s reasoning, yet you say that it would have confused the prophecy, that is presuming God`s thoughts. We know what God says in His word and it is clear that Babylon was the first gentile World Ruler.
You need to think more closely -

That is what I do, was called to do, I am a preacher of Prophecy for exactly 33 years last week. So I understand how it works and what God is inferring much more than the average layman. The facts are it is not for mankind to know all of God's reasonings that should go without saying, that's like a big ole DUH moment. Thereby its up to God to reveal what He wants to whom He wants, and when you are called to Prophecy and spend every day studying, praying and researching, you are going to understand it better than the average joe. You saying Babylon was the First Beast Kingdom changes nothing as per the facts, Egypt was a Beast Kingdom on the Mediterranean Sea before Babylon was and so was Assyria. It is what it is.

 

[ewq1938]

So let me say that since the word HAVE (past tense) or the word ARE (present indicative) IS NOT used in the original text, my conclusion is that it's FUTURE!

No, all manuscripts and translations have it past tense and only you have it future based on a lack of understanding the Greek grammar.

 

[Marilyn C]

That is what I do, was called to do, I ama a preacher of Prophecy for exactly 33 years last week. So I understand how it works and what God is inferring much more than the average layman. The facts are it is not for mankind to know all of God's reasonings that should go without saying, that's like a big ole DUH moment. Thereby its up to God to reveal what He wants to whom He wants, and when you are called to Prophecy and spend every day studying, praying and researching, you are going to understand it better than the average joe. You saying Babylon was the First Beast Kingdom changes nothing as per the facts, Egypt was a Beast Kingdom on the Mediterranean Sea before Babylon was and so was Assyria. It is what it is.

Hi Revealing Times,

I realise you are set in what you think and thus not up for discussion. Now my teachers of eschatology, many, many years ago, were men of God and had studied God`s word also. So it is not my thoughts or reasonings but what I have studied at Bible school.

BTW I have also studied Eschatology since the `70`s. So I`m not a new comer.

Marilyn.