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Why is the day of worship controversial?

eleos1954

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I really want to know. I would hope that any posters here will back up their argument with Scripture. Why do you worship on a particular day seems to be a good question?

There are many biblical reasons to support worshiping on the Sabbath as you will see in other posts. We are to follow in the footsteps of Jesus. Now, some people will contend Jesus was a Jew or because of His grace it is not important .... completely dismissing more importantly Jesus was/is God. Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath, even in His death ... He rested in the tomb on the 7th day Sabbath.

Who knows more about God than God Himself? Now worshiping on the 7th day Sabbath in and of itself does not save a person. We keep the 7th day Sabbath not as a work ... but out of love for our savior. The 7th day sabbath is important to God/Jesus therefore it is important to us.

John 15:14

"You are My friends if you do what I command you.

John 14:15

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

John 14:21

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

John 15:10

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 2:3

By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

The Sabbath will be kept in heaven.

Isaiah 66

22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD.

God Bless.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No. The Lord’s Day is Sunday. Read all the writings of the Early Church they confirm this.

Hi Sara, sorry I do not need to follow the teachings of the early Church fathers. It is God's WORD alone that says that the "LORDS DAY is the SABBATH DAY as shown in the scriptures in post # 74 linked. I believe God's Word over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. JESUS says in *MATTHEW 15:3-9 that all those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God. PETER says we ought to OBEY GOD rather than man *ACTS 5:29 and JESUS says that we will be judged by the WORD of GOD come judgment day JOHN 12:47-48 not the early Church fathers that are not God's Word. One thing we can be sure of however if your reading anything that is outside of God's WORD that contradicts God's WORD and leads you away from following God's WORD then it is not from God.
 
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Sara Shaffer

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Hi Sara, sorry I do not need to follow the teachings of the early Church fathers. It is God's WORD alone that says that the "LORDS DAY is the SABBATH DAY as shown in the scriptures in post # 74 linked. I believe God's Word over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God. JESUS says in *MATTHEW 15:3-9 that all those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God. PETER says we ought to OBEY GOD rather than man *ACTS 5:29 and JESUS says that we will be judged by the WORD of GOD come judgment day JOHN 12:47-48 not the early Church fathers that are not God's Word. One thing we can be sure of however if your reading anything that is outside of God's WORD that contradicts God's WORD and leads you away from following God's WORD then it is not from God.

Gentiles are not required to keep the law of Moses.
 
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ace of hearts

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Hi Sara, not according to God's WORD it's not. According to God's WORD the LORD'S DAY is the SABBATH DAY.

Let's start by looking at your scriptures that many use to claim SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY"

REVELATION 1:9-11 [9] I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10], I was in the Spirit on the LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, [11], Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What you see, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

No doubt about it Revelations 1:10 clearly says that John was in the SPIRIT on the "LORD'S DAY"!

NOW the only problem you have is the need to show scripture that says SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY.
No there's no need to show a legal day of worship. This is only required by people who think they keep the 7th day sabbath as the famous 10 require of Israel.
Can you please provide scripture that says SUNDAY or the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the "LORD'S DAY"?
Yes Rev 1:10. I realize you don't accept this. There are at least two Bible passages indicating worship on Sunday. There are plenty historical records showing Christians worshiped on Sunday from as early as approximately 50 AD. The first day of the week was referred to as Lord's Day. There's absolutely no record calling the sabbath the Lord's Day.
If you cannot find any scriptures to say that SUNDAY is the "LORD'S DAY" then you have a problem.
Why do you think this? There's no obligation of the Christian to the law (famous 10) as a rule of life or faith. We have a New Covenant.
.............

Now let's look at the scriptures that give the answer to our question

Q. WHAT DAY IS THE "LORD'S DAY" ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE?

A.
MATTHEW 12:8 [8], FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD OF THE SABBATH DAY.

Which day is the Lord's Day? THE SABBATH DAY (MATTHEW 12:8; MARK 2:27-28)
Neither have your required statement about day of worship.
God's WORD says that the SABBATH DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY!
Where? Your above references don't say that.
There is NO scripture that says Sunday or the FIRST DAY of the week is the Lords Day. God's Word says the Lord's day is the Sabbath day. This is the day God rested on, he set apart and made a Holy day at the completion of the creation week and made a memorial for all mankind (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus is the God of creation and he is the Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28)
The same goes for the 7th day sabbath. Not one of your references say anything about Lord's Day.
.............

The SABBATH is the 4th Commandment of God's 10 Commandments and there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that God's 4th Commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY. The same as there is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says that SUNDAY is the LORD'S DAY.
Yes there is. Jeremiah 3131-33 in that the passage says specifically there will be a New Covenant not like the one given to their fathers after coming out of Egypt. This covenant was written in stone exclusively for Israel Deut 4:13 and 5:1-3. There's also Hosea 2:11 which says the sabbath will cease.
John in the book of REVELATIONS 1:10 was in the SPIRIT on the SABBATH DAY not SUNDAY!
No it doesn't. The common vernacular of the day among Christians was the Lord's Day. This is clearly defendable from historical records of the day.
According to biblical history from GENESIS to REVELATION God's people have always kept God's 4th commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH unbroken from ADAM and EVE through to JESUS and all the APOSTLES to after the death and ressurection of JESUS. Through to the early Church all through time to this very present day.
This is incorrect as Scripture shows. (1 Cor 16).
.............

HOW WAS THE LORD'S DAY CHANGED TO SUNDAY?

SUNDAY Worship is a teaching and tradition of men handed down by the Roman Catholic Church that has lead many to break and ignore God's 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)
This doesn't correlate to your question.

.............

ARE YOU FOLLOWING A MAN MADE TRADITION IN SUNDAY WORSHIP?
No more than the sabbath you keep being in compliance with Scripture. Thus you're only keeping the traditions of man established by your prophet EGW.
God's WORD is very clear. If we follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God then we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9
[3], But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me;
[6], And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8], This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
So you create problems for yourself.
Who do we believe and follow? The teachings and traditions of men or the WORD of God? Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.
You clearly don't keep the sabbath as outlined in Exodus 20:8-11. So how are you following God's Word?
.................

SIN is when we knowingly break any one of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.
This has nothing to do with the subject of the thread because the Christian isn't obligated to keep the law (famous 10). It's only an obligation of Israel. Essentially you're only spreading fear about loss of salvation. The gentile Christian has been delivered from the law right along with Jewish Christians per Rom 7:6.
.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
Just a repeat statement.
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
So is your 7th day sabbath.
There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.
Jer 31:31-33 and Luke 22:20 covers this proving your statement is error.
In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)
This isn't a reference to sin.
God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.
No, this is a call from your church to leave any church not in your organization.
..................

God knows many follow these traditions from ignorance because they do not know any better. He loves all and is calling all who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Seek him in prayer asking for his Spirit to guide and teach you. He promises to be your guide and teacher. (John 14:26; 16:13: 7:17)
Indeed He does.
 
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ace of hearts

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Not if you are talking about reading the Bible. The Bible does not say "The Lord's day is Sunday" and it also does not say "the Lord's Day is week-day-1"... but it does say
"The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD" Ex 20:10
"the Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28
"The Sabbath is the Holy Day of the LORD" Isaiah 58:13-14 NASB
The Sabbath is the Lord's Holy Day" Is 58:13 NIV



This is true - centuries later reading enough of them eventually they make it clear that it evolved to be week-day-1

Jesus addressed the entire topic of editing/tweeking God's Commandments via man made evolved tradition in Mark 7:6-13. A very fascinating text from Christ.
The deception has stepped up to a new level by quoting various Bible versions.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Gentiles are not required to keep the law of Moses.

Indeed but the law of MOSES is not God's LAW. Your mixing up your shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT with God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

Now Sara, your not saying that Christians are now free to steal, commit adultery, murder, lie, use God's name in vain now are you? God's WORD does not teach lawlessness anywhere in the NEW TESTAMENT. In fact it teaches all those who pratice lawlessness do not KNOW God and will not enter into God's KINGDOM because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4

JESUS and all the APOSTLES did not teach that gentiles are free to break God's Commandments linked

God's 10 commandments are repeated all through the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures linked

There is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Hope this helps.
 
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ace of hearts

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"Do not take God's name in vain" does not appear until Exodus 20 and it not found at all in the NT.

Which means nothing in terms of license to ignore that command of God. (As I am sure we both agree)

By contrast the 4th commandment in Ex 20:11 points directly at Genesis 2:1-3 as the point WHEN God made the Sabbath day Holy and thus binding for mankind.

Now wonder even the Sunday groups admit the Sabbath was binding on mankind in Eden, as all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.
Personally I don't think you understand all that goes with taking God's Holy Name in vain.

Essentially your post has no bearing on day of worship. You only list the above organization and people for support by misrepresentation.

The Christian isn't beholden to the famous 10.
 
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ace of hearts

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True - it is a benefit, a blessing -- for mankind

"The Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27
Do you care to explain why God waited some 4,000 years to make this known? Can you show how this verse makes the sabbath an obligation?
 
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ace of hearts

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Indeed but the law of MOSES is not God's LAW. Your mixing up your shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT with God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.
The NT refers to the law (famous 10) as the law of Moses. Besides that the rest of the requirements found in the first 5 books of our OT are given by God through Moses.
Now Sara, your not saying that Christians are now free to steal, commit adultery, murder, lie, use God's name in vain now are you? God's WORD does not teach lawlessness anywhere in the NEW TESTAMENT. In fact it teaches all those who pratice lawlessness do not KNOW God and will not enter into God's KINGDOM because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4
Nothing but a common ploy to try and show people keep the law. Even many of the wicked don't do those things. They aren't saved and neither are they following the law (famous 10).
JESUS and all the APOSTLES did not teach that gentiles are free to break God's Commandments linked
Very clever. What was taught is the Christian isn't free to live a wicked lifestyle because of grace.
God's 10 commandments are repeated all through the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures linked

There is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment is ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Hope this helps.
And so they are. They are teaching points and not requirements to keep the or obligation to the law.
 
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ace of hearts

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There are many biblical reasons to support worshiping on the Sabbath as you will see in other posts. We are to follow in the footsteps of Jesus. Now, some people will contend Jesus was a Jew or because of His grace it is not important .... completely dismissing more importantly Jesus was/is God. Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath, even in His death ... He rested in the tomb on the 7th day Sabbath.
Jesus nor the Apostles taught we're to become Jews. Do you go about healing people by command? Do you walk on water? Are you married? Jesus walked everywhere and occasionally rode an animal. Jesus never drove or rode in a vehicle. The list could go on and on. So your real point is to become a Jew by keeping the law. Jesus told us explicitly to keep His commandments.
Who knows more about God than God Himself? Now worshiping on the 7th day Sabbath in and of itself does not save a person. We keep the 7th day Sabbath not as a work ... but out of love for our savior. The 7th day sabbath is important to God/Jesus therefore it is important to us.
Claim anything you want. The teaching of EGW say if you don't keep the 7th day sabbath you have no salvation. I can get the specific quote.
John 15:14

"You are My friends if you do what I command you.

John 14:15

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
Nothing about keeping the law there.
John 14:21

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
Nothing about keeping the law there.
John 15:10

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
Nothing about keeping the law by us there.
1 John 2:3

By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
Nothing about keeping the law there.
The Sabbath will be kept in heaven.

Isaiah 66

22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD.
This passage talks only about what happens between sabbaths and new moons. There's nothing about anything happening "on" the sabbath in the passage.
 
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ace of hearts

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Hi Sara, sorry I do not need to follow the teachings of the early Church fathers.
True
It is God's WORD alone that says that the "LORDS DAY is the SABBATH DAY as shown in the scriptures in post # 74 linked. I believe God's Word over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God.
No because you're not in compliance with Exodus 20:8-11.
JESUS says in *MATTHEW 15:3-9 that all those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God. PETER says we ought to OBEY GOD rather than man *ACTS 5:29 and JESUS says that we will be judged by the WORD of GOD come judgment day JOHN 12:47-48 not the early Church fathers that are not God's Word. One thing we can be sure of however if your reading anything that is outside of God's WORD that contradicts God's WORD and leads you away from following God's WORD then it is not from God.
Nice general statement.
 
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eleos1954

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Jesus nor the Apostles taught we're to become Jews. Do you go about healing people by command? Do you walk on water? Are you married? Jesus walked everywhere and occasionally rode an animal. Jesus never drove or rode in a vehicle. The list could go on and on. So your real point is to become a Jew by keeping the law. Jesus told us explicitly to keep His commandments.Claim anything you want. The teaching of EGW say if you don't keep the 7th day sabbath you have no salvation. I can get the specific quote.Nothing about keeping the law there.Nothing about keeping the law there.Nothing about keeping the law by us there.Nothing about keeping the law there.This passage talks only about what happens between sabbaths and new moons. There's nothing about anything happening "on" the sabbath in the passage.

The teaching of EGW? - I study Gods Word.

"So your real point is to become a Jew by keeping the law."

This is not what I said, or you misunderstood what I meant.

When it is pointed out Jesus kept the Sabbath ... some say He did so because He was a Jew ... they use this as a "reason" why He kept it. Well He is/was God and could have kept whatever day He wanted. He kept the Sabbath to honor His father by keeping the 4th of the 10 commandments ... also God made the Sabbath His special day for mankind, and blessed it and made it holy.

You question commandments .... the commandments (the 10) are the law.

What we are to do is walk in the footsteps of Jesus. We press forward.

Philippians 3:14

I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

In all things ... follow the Lamb.
 
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ace of hearts

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The teaching of EGW? - I study Gods Word.

"So your real point is to become a Jew by keeping the law."

This is not what I said, or you misunderstood what I meant.

When it is pointed out Jesus kept the Sabbath ... some say He did so because He was a Jew ... they use this as a "reason" why He kept it. Well He is/was God and could have kept whatever day He wanted. He kept the Sabbath to honor His father by keeping the 4th of the 10 commandments ... also God made the Sabbath His special day for mankind, and blessed it and made it holy.

You question commandments .... the commandments (the 10) are the law.

What we are to do is walk in the footsteps of Jesus. We press forward.

Philippians 3:14

I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

In all things ... follow the Lamb.
Jesus kept the because He was obligated by birth and also because He had to be flawless in every respect to be our Redeemer-Savior.

No I don't question the famous 10. There's no requirement of the Christian to keep the covenant given to Israel after departure from Egypt. We have a New Covenant unlike the one given to the fathers of Israel.
 
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ace of hearts

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Why do you think that is a true statement? The teachings of the ECF are very valuable.
Indeed the ECF are very valuable. If 100% of their teachings were backed by what we call Scripture I'd agree we should follow them. I don't believe they are 100% in compliance. I do understand that to be personal opinion.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Wrong.
The law of Moses is the 10 commandments.

Sorry sister God's WORD disagrees with you sadly. The SHADOW laws of MOSES were written in the book of the OLD COVENANT.

EXODUS 24:7 [7], And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 31:24 And it came to pass, when MOSES HAD MADE AN END OF WRITING THE WORDS OF THIS LAW IN A BOOK, until they were finished,

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, AND PUT IT IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

God's eternal LAW (10 commandments) are the work of God alone spoken and written by God alone on two tables of stone *EXODUS 32:16; EXODUS 20:1-17. God's eternal law (10 Commandments) are not the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW.

The role of God's 10 commandments is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken *EXODUS 20:8-11; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. If we KNOWINGLY break anyone of God's 10 commandments then we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will not enter into God's KINGDOM because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. In times of ignorance God winks at but when he brings us a KNOWLEDGE of the truth calls us to repent and believe his Word *ACTS 17:30-31.

Sorry sister God's WORD disagrees with you

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Indeed the ECF are very valuable. If 100% of their teachings were backed by what we call Scripture I'd agree we should follow them. I don't believe they are 100% in compliance. I do understand that to be personal opinion.

Depends on who wrote them if they are genuine and if they agree with the scriptures. Seems to me after reading them it looks like some could be forgeries and others written by a Catholic monk in order to support Catholic teachings that are not in God's WORD. That is my opinion however. General rule though is that you should never trust any outside sources that contradict God's WORD and the scriptures. They will only lead you away from God.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Jesus kept the because He was obligated by birth and also because He had to be flawless in every respect to be our Redeemer-Savior. No I don't question the famous 10. There's no requirement of the Christian to keep the covenant given to Israel after departure from Egypt. We have a New Covenant unlike the one given to the fathers of Israel.

You are confused as to what was the OLD COVENANT. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Why do you think that is a true statement? The teachings of the ECF are very valuable.

Because only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the Commandments of God *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29. JESUS says those who knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.
 
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