Tiktaalik vs. Bacterial Flagellum

[xianghua]

You'll have to show us such a "car" first, how else can we answer that question?

its very simple. here is an image of an object:

now, say that this object is able to reproduce like a living thing. can you detect design or not? a simple answer of "yes" or "not" please.



(image from wiki)

 

[Speedwell]

its very simple. here is an image of an object:

now, say that this object is able to reproduce like a living thing. can you detect design or not? a simple answer of "yes" or "not" please.



(image from wiki)

I believe that I can observe evidence of intentional manufacture so, subject to closer examination, I would conclude that the object was designed. That it is a "car" or that the object is alleged to be capable of biological reproduction has no bearing on the issue.

 

[DogmaHunter]

its very simple. here is an image of an object:

That's a human manufactured device.
My dad worked in a factory where they did just that.

now, say that this object is able to reproduce like a living thing.

No, let's just stick to real things.

 

[Aman777]

Do you mean Christian Scientists (capital S) as in members of that cult, or do you mean scientists (lower case s) who are Christian?

It's kinda like believing a Muslim who doesn't believe in the Quran. Their faith is in the changeable ideas of mortal men.

Mat 15:9
But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[xianghua]

I believe that I can observe evidence of intentional manufacture so, subject to closer examination, I would conclude that the object was designed. That it is a "car" or that the object is alleged to be capable of biological reproduction has no bearing on the issue.

and if you can only look at the object. can you detect design in this case by only look at the image?

 

[Aman777]

Most of them, very likely. Scientists are colleagues who work close together in many instances. They generally know such things as religion about each other. If you want examples of more celebrity try Ken Miller or Francis Collins, both Christians, both evolutionary biologists of considerable reputation, who have written extensively about their faith and their work.

Can you explain the reason for their NOT believing God's Holy Word which plainly tells us that God created?

 

[xianghua]

That's a human manufactured device.
My dad worked in a factory where they did just that.



No, let's just stick to real things.

so you can conclude design after all. why this case is different from this one?:

Difference between Prokaryotic flagella and Eukaryotic flagella ~ Biology Exams 4 U

 

[Aman777]

Nah.

Do be afraid. Speak up and then duck.

 

[Speedwell]

I believe that I can observe evidence of intentional manufacture so, subject to closer examination, I would conclude that the object was designed.

and if you can only look at the object. can you detect design in this case by only look at the image?

Not with certainty. As I said, I see what I believe to be evidence of intentional manufacture--from which I could infer design--but I would have to examine it more closely to be sure.

 

[Aman777]

Given that some creationists seem to permanently reside in Lala-land, it's no wonder there is such a disconnect.

I've found the opposite to be true. People who proclaim evolution cannot seem to give us ANY evidence of the magic, which would be required to change Apes into Humans. Just believe us, is their mantra. If you don't, you're a bimbo, uneducated and stupid, they preach, while failing to provide ANY evidence of their unsupportable beliefs.

 

[xianghua]

Not with certainty. As I said, I see what I believe to be evidence of intentional manufacture--from which I could infer design--but I would have to examine it more closely to be sure.

so you are not sure that this object was designed only by looking at the image?:

 

[Speedwell]

so you are not sure that this object was designed only by looking at the image?:

Not 100% certain, no. It looks like it might be, with Roman letters and numerals, what appears to be formed metal structure and other signs of intentional manufacture, but closer examination is necessary to confirm that those things are what they appear to be.

 

[xianghua]

Not 100% certain, no. It looks like it might be, with Roman letters and numerals, what appears to be formed metal structure and other signs of intentional manufacture, but closer examination is necessary to confirm that those things are what they appear to be.

ok. thanks.

 

[DogmaHunter]

so you can conclude design after all. why this case is different from this one?:

Difference between Prokaryotic flagella and Eukaryotic flagella ~ Biology Exams 4 U

Those things aren't manufactured.

 

[DogmaHunter]

so you are not sure that this object was designed only by looking at the image?:

That's not an image of the object you are talking about. Your object is an imaginary one.
This is just a car, which is manufactured in car factories by humans.

You are talking about non-existant cars that reproduce.
Such cars do not exist.

 

[xianghua]

That's not an image of the object you are talking about. Your object is an imaginary one.
This is just a car, which is manufactured in car factories by humans.

You are talking about non-existant cars that reproduce.
Such cars do not exist.

so if you will find such a self replicating car you will conclude design or not? its an easy theoretical question.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

so if you will find such a self replicating car you will conclude design or not? its an easy theoretical question.

Nobody has found one. That's a far easier concept to deal with, but you seem to be really struggling with it.

 

[DogmaHunter]

so if you will find such a self replicating car you will conclude design or not? its an easy theoretical question.

I don't know.

You'ld have to show me one first. Otherwise, I can't study it - which I would need to do to answer your question.


This is why you can't make valid arguments against empirical models of reality by using imaginary data pulled from lala-land.


It's like trying to argue against gravity by imagining that I jump from the Eiffel Tower and then just keep floating mid-air instead of plummeting to the ground.

It's ridiculous.

Use real world examples if you wish to argue against a real-world model of reality.

 

[xianghua]

I don't know.

so you dont know that a self replicating car need design? ok.

Use real world examples if you wish to argue against a real-world model of reality.

i already used the flagellum motor. but since you agree that a self replicating car doesnt need design i dont see any difference. i do think that even a self replicating car need design. so lets agree to disagree.

 

[Heissonear]

its very simple. here is an image of an object:

now, say that this object is able to reproduce like a living thing. can you detect design or not? a simple answer of "yes" or "not" please.



(image from wiki)

Keep the design examples before their eyes. Make them push design behind complexity to the side.