Day of the Lord

[mobius8curve]

There were no chapters or verses in Paul's first letter to the Thessalonians when it was written.
The timing of the event at the end of chapter 4 is found at the beginning of chapter 5, on "the day of the Lord" when He "comes as a thief".

The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4.

.

Thank you for posting that video!!! I was looking for a video that agreed with what Father showeed me many years ago as I had proof of a distinct year after the tribulation called the "day of the Lord" where the rapture/resurrection took place:

The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

 

[Bladerunner]

I gave you a like on this, with the exception of your idea to shuffle Revelation 6 and 7. This idea is not right, as the Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event we can expect, then follows the selection of the 144k from the great multitude if faithful Christians. Who have passed thru the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal and proved their faith in the Lord to protect and save them.
They are all of God's holy people, as seen later; in the holy Land, by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7

I fully agree that the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Vials are each separate events.

Hello Keras..... There are a lot of scholars that do not accept that position, however, Look Rev 7:2-3 where it says not to hurt the earth and the sea. In Rev 6:2, we see the antichrist becoming politically visable. In, Rev 4, we see the Red Horse that takes the peace away from the earth. In otherwords World war and that in itself will hurt the earth and seas. But look at verse 3 in chapter 7, "NOR THE TREES". While the earth and sea depending upon how one looks at it is resilient and hard to be hurt. However the Trees can be hurt very easily. From this command, I think that Chapter 7, as it is only about Israeli tribes, 144,000 and tribulation saints to come (a prophecy in itself).

As far as Rev chapter 6 being the next event, I do not think so and have listed sever prophecies that will happen before the seals are opened. The Seals Begin God's Wrath and the CHurch has been promised not to go through it therefore the Rapture of Jesus' Bride will be prior to Chapter 6. In fact, we see the Bride is already in Heaven in Chapter 4.

Have a good day Sir.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

There are some similarities between some of the trumpets and some of the vials.

The first trumpet could be said to be lie those judgements of God through Mose at Egypt. Hail mixed with fire but the rest?????

I think you'll find a pattern in the bowls that equal those of Moses' judgements.

Blade

 

[Revealing Times]

The Day of the Lord does not begin until the 6th seal. The tribulation begins when the 1st seal is opened which will likely start with a covenant being confirmed. The Church will escape the hour of temptation

The world that does not escape the wars, famines and pestilence will think that everything is great when the tribulation of the those days is over. It is then that they will be cast into the wrath of God. The believers that are on earth at that time......those that have not been hunted down and killed......will know what is going on. The Day of the Lord will not take them unaware.........they are told to look up, their redemption draws nigh. There will be a gathering from the earth (twelve tribes) and from heaven (the church).

The church is in heaven as they went there in the pretrib rapture......before the seals were opened. They are the GOODMAN that will not know when the master will come. After the church is gone............those believers that go through the tribulation will not be unaware when Jesus is coming for the gathering and the start of the wrath of God. These believers are of the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth.

The Tribulation MEANS TROUBLES (Great Troubles)........Jesus RELEASED the Anti-Christ to go forth Conquering, thus it is the Lamb's Wrath (God's Wrath). God allows a man to come forth who will kill 1.5 billion to 2 billion people, God is giving the world their hearts intent !! Just like he gave Israel their hearts intent when they demanded a King to rule over them. Jesus OPENS THE SEALS !! It is God's Wrath !! The troubles come upon Israel just like it comes upon the whole world, trouble like have never been seen before. The Church was taken to Heaven, therefore God protected her, the Jews who repent (1/3) will understand Matt. 24:16-17 and Flee to Petra where God will also protect them. The Jews (2/3) who refuse to turn to God will perish, the people of the earth who refuses to serve the Beast will perish, the Muslims and others like minded will perish/die because they are brainwashed that Allah is god, I mean they blow up people now because of their supposed god, they are never going to serve this man as god, they will thus be WIPED OUT !!

This is world wide TROUBLES on mankind, not just troubles coming against Israel. The White Horse represents the Beast Conquering Jerusalem/Israel, the Mediterranean Sea Region, and eventually all the world. The Red Horse takes peace from the earth, this means he brings war, but he FAKED PEACE for the first 3.5 years. The Black Horse is famine and starvation caused by these wars or troubles. The Pale Green Horse represents represents Death and the Grave (not hell). So this is God's Wrath on MANKIND or on all the earth.

There is NO TROUBLES for only Israel as you assume sir. It is God's Wrath. The 6th Seal brings nothing new per se, save it is God announcing supernaturally that MY WRATH IS UPON YOU, it was already upon them, they just didn't understand it until the 6th Seal confirmed it via celestial happenings. You see a VISION of men on earth announcing that they understand that they are in God's Wrath and you, like others, just assume that is when the Wrath starts, I don't assume that, I see the First seal brought forth a man that murders 1.5 to 2 billion people and I see God's Wrath, loosed by Jesus upon a wicked world, who he has been protecting heretofore by his grace. Now Jesus/God allows men their hearts desire, He gives them a wicked tyrant who is the opposite of God, whom they all hate, now they will see the folly of their ways.

When the Tribulation (TROUBLES OF THOSE DAYS) is over, then Jesus returns with the Bride in tow, to save Israel, lest the Beast destroy all of mankind, then Jesus sets up his kingdom on earth for 1000 years. The rapture happens before the 70th week begins of course, when Jesus returns he destroys the Beast and all his minions and takes over control of the earth. AMEN !!

 

[Revealing Times]

Matt 24:29-31 is certainly a coming of Jesus when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. It is a gathering from heaven and earth. Jesus has not come for Armageddon and to set up his kingdom, He has come to gather the believers and cast the world into the wrath of God.

This is Jesus returning with the Bride in tow to defeat the Beast.

As for the fig tree........
Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

That has ZERO to do with how Jesus uses it in Matt. 24, hes simply saying that when summer is near you will know it by the fruits............LIKEWISE, when ye see all THESE SIGNS (about 12 signs) then you will know that my coming is nigh. So the Generation that sees ALL THESE SIGNS can only be the ones living in the 70th week of tribulation, because only they will see the sign of the sun, moon and stars Jesus spoke of, which means ALL OF THE SIGNS have come to pass. The SIGNS Jesus spoke of BELOW:

1.)The Temple is destroyed.
2.) false christs in verse 5.
3.) Wars and rumours of wars.
4.) Earthquakes/pestilence/famine or sorrows.
5.) Disciples Martyred.
6.) False Prophets in verse 11.
7.) Love of many will grow (wax) cold.
8.) The Gospel has to be preached unto all the world.
9.) The Abomination of Desolation must be set up.
10.) There will be tribulation or troubles like never seen before
11.) THE Anti-Christ and False Prophet must show up, see verse 24.
12.) The sun and moon give not their light, and the Stars fall from Heaven.

So this is what the parable of the Fig Tree is speaking about, EVERYONE of these signs must be seen else Jesus can not show up/return. {Second Coming}

Matt. 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

When the GENERATION that sees ALL THESE THINGS come to pass, THAT GENERATION shall not pass until they see Jesus RETURNING like Matt. 24:29-31 describes !! That means those who live in the tribulation period, who see the celestial signs spoken of above.

God saw the fathers of Israel as the first ripe in the fig tree at her first time. Meaning God saw the fathers of Israel as the 1st fruits of the first harvest. The fig tree has two harvest. The breba crop and the main harvest. God had intended for Israel to be the first harvest, but they served other Gods. Instead, the Gentiles will be the 1st harvest.....the church. It will be like the days of Noah......Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood.

But God will not forget about His people. After the church is gone.....pretrib, there will be 12,000 from each tribe that become the first fruits of the second harvest. They are seen in heaven in Rev 14. The twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth go through the tribulaiton and will be very aware of the coming of Jesus and the Day of the Lord. It will be like the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom, destruction came. The destruction if being cast into the wrath of God.

Like I stated, I don't think the Fig Tree Parable means anything except what I stated above. As per the 144,000:

I don't think the 144,000 is an actual number, it's a metaphor for ALL ISRAEL. The number 12 means FULLNESS, thus 12 x 12 x 12 = ALL ISRAEL, not every Jew, but all Jews that turn unto God or repent, thus Israel's seed is preserved forever, just like God promised Abraham. When the 144,000 are SEALED in chapter 7 that means ALL ISRAEL who repented/accepted Jesus, and Fled to Judea, God tells the Angels to hurt not the earth, sea nor the trees until they are SEALED (in Petra) then the Trumpet Plagues can go forth onto mankind, the Trees Burn, the Seas turn to blood, the Earth has plague after plague brought against it. In Rev. 18, when God says "Come out of her my people, lest ye receive of her plagues" God is telling Israel to FLEE Judea and go to Petra where He will protect them, else they will be in the middle of those Plagues! Israel repent BEFORE the Day of the Lord, just as Malachi 4:5-6 says.

The nation of Israel........those that flee as instructed when the abomination of desolation is set up........1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away........are the remnant that go through the wrath of God....in protection.

The 1290 happens 30 days before the Middle of the Week or 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem and the MANY Nations of the Mediterranean Sea Region. The number 1290 represents the number of days until Jesus' Second Coming. The Two-witnesses show up at the 1335, 45 days before the 1290 and 75 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem/THE MANY/Israel at the 1260 Event.

 

[keras]

Hello Keras..... There are a lot of scholars that do not accept that position, however, Look Rev 7:2-3 where it says not to hurt the earth and the sea. In Rev 6:2, we see the antichrist becoming politically visable. In, Rev 4, we see the Red Horse that takes the peace away from the earth. In otherwords World war and that in itself will hurt the earth and seas. But look at verse 3 in chapter 7, "NOR THE TREES". While the earth and sea depending upon how one looks at it is resilient and hard to be hurt. However the Trees can be hurt very easily. From this command, I think that Chapter 7, as it is only about Israeli tribes, 144,000 and tribulation saints to come (a prophecy in itself).

As far as Rev chapter 6 being the next event, I do not think so and have listed sever prophecies that will happen before the seals are opened. The Seals Begin God's Wrath and the CHurch has been promised not to go through it therefore the Rapture of Jesus' Bride will be prior to Chapter 6. In fact, we see the Bride is already in Heaven in Chapter 4.

Have a good day Sir. Blade

I see the first five Seals as being opened when Jesus Ascended, as per Revelation 5:7 & 6:1
We have had all the wars, famines an plagues, any worse and mankind would have been wiped out long ago. Then the Fifth Seal, is plainly open, as all the martyrs since Stephen have their souls kept under the Altar in heaven.
The Sixth Seal remains to happen and from all the prophesies that mention the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, it will be the event that will commence all the end times prophesies. It will be the fulfillment of Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12, Amos 1, Isaiah 17:1, 2 Peter 3:7 and over 100 other vividly described prophesies

As for who are the 144,000 and the Bride, we totally disagree. They both consist of faithful Christians, from every tribe of Israel, every race, nation and language.

The Church Promised to avoid Tribulation? What about all those martyrs, even still happening today?
No; you have bought a lie, we Christians are told to endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 14:12

 

[Bladerunner]

I see the first five Seals as being opened when Jesus Ascended, as per Revelation 5:7 & 6:1
We have had all the wars, famines an plagues, any worse and mankind would have been wiped out long ago. Then the Fifth Seal, is plainly open, as all the martyrs since Stephen have their souls kept under the Altar in heaven.
The Sixth Seal remains to happen and from all the prophesies that mention the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, it will be the event that will commence all the end times prophesies. It will be the fulfillment of Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12, Amos 1, Isaiah 17:1, 2 Peter 3:7 and over 100 other vividly described prophesies

As for who are the 144,000 and the Bride, we totally disagree. They both consist of faithful Christians, from every tribe of Israel, every race, nation and language.

The Church Promised to avoid Tribulation? What about all those martyrs, even still happening today?
No; you have bought a lie, we Christians are told to endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 14:12

How did Jesus Ascend when He was the one who was introducing the players of the seals.

Blade

 

[keras]

I'll give you a list of them and let you decide which ones are to come at anytime
1. Destruction of Damascus
2. Psalm 83 War
3. Elam (Iran) Event (Jer 49:34-39)
4. will Jordan fall (Jer 49:5-6)
5. Egypt ?? (Isaiah 19:16-18)
6. Rapture (1 Cor 15:51-53), (1 Thes 4: 15-18)

Of course there are many more prophecies that can happen. WHEN is the question. Before or after Gog/MaGog

Items 1 to 5 are all at the same time. The Day of the Lord's wrath.
The 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is a non starter, as that idea is never mentioned in scripture. Your 1 Cor 15 quote is about the Great White Throne judgement; after the Millennium.
! Thess 4:17 simply describes a transportation from wherever we are on earth, to where Jesus is, initially in the clouds, then in Jerusalem.

The attack of Gog from Magog does not happen for several years after the DoL. Then all God's people, every faithful Christian, will be dwelling in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land, Isaiah 62:1-5, trusting if the Lord for their protection. He does not fail them. Joel 2:20

 

[keras]

How did Jesus Ascend when He was the one who was introducing the players of the seals.

Blade

Read Revelation 5.

 

[Bladerunner]

Items 1 to 5 are all at the same time. The Day of the Lord's wrath.
The 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is a non starter, as that idea is never mentioned in scripture. Your 1 Cor 15 quote is about the Great White Throne judgement; after the Millennium.
! Thess 4:17 simply describes a transportation from wherever we are on earth, to where Jesus is, initially in the clouds, then in Jerusalem.

The attack of Gog from Magog does not happen for several years after the DoL. Then all God's people, every faithful Christian, will be dwelling in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land, Isaiah 62:1-5, trusting if the Lord for their protection. He does not fail them. Joel 2:20

I see...

Blade

 

[Choose Wisely]

There is NO TROUBLES for only Israel as you assume sir. It is God's Wrath. The 6th Seal brings nothing new per se, save it is God announcing supernaturally that MY WRATH IS UPON YOU, it was already upon them, they just didn't understand it until the 6th Seal confirmed it via celestial happenings.

Not quite sure why you conclude that I think only Israel has troubles. After the church is gone pretrib, God turns his attention to His people........and they are scattered across the earth, and the earth has problems. What you are missing is there is a coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. That's why the kings of the earth say to the mountains to fall on them and hide them from the one that sits on the throne. That's why you see the great multitude in Rev 7. Christ has returned to rapture those that are left alive and the harvest is the twelve tribes. There are now no believers that experience the wrath of God. The Gentile church was taken pretrib. The twelve tribe are taken pre wrath and the remnant of the nation of Israel, those that flee, go to a place of protection. None of Gods people experience his wrath.

 

[mobius8curve]

Not quite sure why you conclude that I think only Israel has troubles. After the church is gone pretrib, God turns his attention to His people........and they are scattered across the earth, and the earth has problems. What you are missing is there is a coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. That's why the kings of the earth say to the mountains to fall on them and hide them from the one that sits on the throne. That's why you see the great multitude in Rev 7. Christ has returned to rapture those that are left alive and the harvest is the twelve tribes. There are now no believers that experience the wrath of God. The Gentile church was taken pretrib. The twelve tribe are taken pre wrath and the remnant of the nation of Israel, those that flee, go to a place of protection. None of Gods people experience his wrath.

"His people" are a lot bigger group of people than your asserting:

All Israel

And the "rapture" is after the tribulation:

The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

 

[Choose Wisely]

This is Jesus returning with the Bride in tow to defeat the Beast.

I know that's what most people think........but it's wrong. The coming of Matthew 24 is the same coming as the 6th seal as proven by the cosmic signs. How many times is Satan cast from heaven as we see the stars fall in both Matt 24 and Rev 6. That's because it is the same event.

 

[Choose Wisely]

"His people" are a lot bigger group of people than your asserting:

All Israel

And the "rapture" is after the tribulation:

The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

The will certainly be a rapture after the Tribulation...........but it won't be the church. They will be gone pretrib.

 

[mobius8curve]

The will certainly be a rapture after the Tribulation...........but it won't be the church. They will be gone pretrib.

Making a blanket statement without studying to see if these things are so is not being "noble":

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Try studying those links and provide me the scripture that clearly refutes the scriptural thesis for either link and then I will start to take you seriously!

 

[Choose Wisely]

The 1290 happens 30 days before the Middle of the Week or 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem and the MANY Nations of the Mediterranean Sea Region. The number 1290 represents the number of days until Jesus' Second Coming. The Two-witnesses show up at the 1335, 45 days before the 1290 and 75 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem/THE MANY/Israel at the 1260 Event.

2520 days in the week. 1335 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away means the daily sacrifice was taken away on day 1185.
The day 1335 you are talking about is day 2520 when Jesus returns for the twelve tribes and all that have been killed. It is the gathering of Matt 24. It is the beginning of the wrath of God
The 1290 day spoken of is when the abomination of desolation is set up. It happens 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away so the day is day 2475. That is when people flee in Jerusalem. From that day add 1260 days till the wrath of God is over.

 

[Revealing Times]

No, that's not what I meant. The vials are just a different view of the trumpets. When we look at the end of Rev 14 we see the same gathering that is the great multitude of Rev 7. Then we see those not taken to the clouds cast into the wrath of God. How is it that they were not in wrath already?

And that sir is what throws you timing off, the Vials are the 3rd Woe. SEE Chapter 8 after the first four Trumpets sound, there is a KEY VERSE there that tells us exactly what is about to happen next.

Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

The LAST THREE TRUMPETS are all Woes, meaning the First Woe as sen in Rev. 9, the Second Woe as seen in Rev. 9 and the Seventh Trump is also a WOE !! This means that all Seven of the Vials just so happens to = the 3rd Woe all rolled into one.

The 144,000 in Rev. 14 are Jews that Jesus brings with him from Petra notice they are on Mt. Zion, they are seen going to Petra in chapter 7, being SEALED (Protected), when Jesus comes back he's going to gather them unto himself (unto his barn). The Jews are THE WHEAT, the Church are not the WHEAT, we go to be with Jesus in heaven, they remain ON EARTH with the WICKED TARES !! Thus Jesus gathers them unto the Barn when he returns.

The Great Multitude is the Bride seen in Heaven with White Robes on, they (WE) came out of the 2000 year CHURCH AGE TRIBULATION (Great Tribulation). Jesus told us we would have continual tribulation on earth.......2000 is GREATER than 7 so 2000>7. The Great Tribulation is where the Church Was Raptured from. The Church was Raptured, the Jews in Petra were protected by God. The Martyrs under the altar were Gentiles who repented after the Rapture, thus in Rev. 20:4 they refuse to take the mark of the Beast and are killed. They were in the Wrath, but the Church was not and the Jews were protected in Petra.

Think of all the people that you find out are Jewish. You hear it all the time. They know they are Jewish. But that does not mean they are all of the tribe of Judah....it means they are of the 12 tribes.......Gods chosen people. They are blind to the Messiah. After the church is gone, they will realize that Jesus is the Messiah. The scales will come off their eyes. The coming of Jesus that you see in Matt 24 is the time of their harvest. It is also the time the world will be cast into the wrath of God.

The time of their repentance is shown in Malachi 4:5-6, its shown in Zechariah 12:10 and in Zechariah 13:1. The Jews REPENT BEFORE the Day of the Lord comes upon the world, else how would they know to Flee unto the Mountains like Jesus told them to ? They have t have repented first, then read Matt.24, and thus they repent BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord.

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

We see Israel repent in Zech. 12:10 and 13:1, then we see Jerusalem gets Conquered in Zech. 14:1-2 then we see Jesus returns to defeat the Beast in Zech. 14:3-4. So they repent BEFORE the Day of the Lord.

The seals, trumpets and vials are not the same story. However, the trumpets and vials are a different view of the same story.

The Seals come to pass, the 7th Seal is KEY...........All of the Trumpets come from the 7th Seal, and the last three trumpets are the THREE WOES..........The Last Woe is ALL SEVEN VIALS. So in essence, all of God's Wrath emerges from the Seals that Jesus Opens. The Trumpets are not the same as the Vials, the 7th Trumpet IS THE 7 Vials. That might be what confuses you there, it used to confuse me also.

I used to think that too.

That is what the Scriptures say brother.

I used to think the same, but there was too many reasons that it was wrong. I believe in the pre tribulation rapture of the church....summer in nigh....the wheat harvest. I believe the dead in Christ are the barley harvest and I believe that God will remove the scales from the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth......fall fruit harvest. Seed time and harvest.

So what is really confusing me......if you understand that the stars falling from heaven in Matt 24 are Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven how do you not see the same angels and Satan being cast to the earth in Rev 6. How many times does Satan get cast out of heaven?

It is the same thing, which means that there are 1260 some odd days left give or take a few, that the Beast will be in power. Satan is cast down, the Beast (a MAN) rules for 1260 days. I think the Beast comes to power and then a few weeks, or a few months later Satan is cast out of Heaven at the 6th Seal. In Matthew 24, we are just given a GENERAL TIMELINE, when it says AFTER the Tribulation of these days its not giving us a rundown of End Time Events like Revelation does, its just giving us a general framework to go by. So Rev. 6 is when the Tribulation begins at the First Seal, IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS Satan is cast down at the 6th Seal. Then IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT Jesus returns, so in Matt. 24 we are given a rudimentary understanding of end time events, thus we have to use the book of Revelation as a helpmate of sorts to come to the full knowledge.

I know that you can watch any guy on TV and he will tell you that the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is the second coming when Armageddon happens and Jesus puts his foot on the Mount of Olives. However, that's just wrong. Put the pieces where God says they go and then figure out why your timeline won't work. Don't shoe horn yourself with a perceived timeline and disregard where God says the pieces go.
If you read what Jesus says in Matt 24 about end times, it will line up perfectly with what John says in Rev 6. From false christs, to wars, to famines, to pestilence, to martyrs, to the signs of His coming, the the gathering of the great multitude. Jesus and John agree. Start your time line with this information. The tribulation is over, and then the wrath of God begins.

I spent about 8 months doing an exegesis on Matt. 24 brother. None of Matt. 24:1-14 happens during the Tribulation period. The rumours, wars, famines etc. etc are not a part f the END TIMES, that is where you veer off track brother. I did the exegesis because way too many people were going down this false rabbit hole. Until you understand that Matt. 24:15 is the first part of Matthew that is about the Tribulation Period it will always confuse you. Matt. 24:36-51 is the pre-tribulation rapture, it;s just not in the proper order.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TROUBLES [BEGIN], the Sun is darkened, the moon is darkened and the stars fall from Heaven, THEN Jesus will Return. So the Tribulation or TROUBLES come upon Israel, the Jews, the Many nations in the region, and much of the world, the first 4 Seals will kill many, then the SUN, MOON and STARS even happens...........THEN Jesus returns.........but the rest of Revelation also happens, this is a Gospel, Jesus isn't supposed to give us a lay by play of the end times, he does that in the book of Revelation !!

 

[Choose Wisely]

Making a blanket statement without studying to see if these things are so is not being "noble":

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Try studying those links and provide me the scripture that clearly refutes the scriptural thesis for either link and then I will start to take you seriously!

I looked at you links and there was just a ton of info.......some right, some wrong. The church is not Israel.....period. The woman in Rev 12 is not the church......it is Israel.

As the to over coming

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.

You over come by the blood of the lamb.....not in your own strength and works.

Like I said there will be a rapture after the tribulation, but it won't be the church.

THE CHURCH WILL BE RAPTURED IN THE SECRET PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE

 

[Revealing Times]

I do not include 17,18, 19 as Parenthetical Citations. As I stated the last PC is only 2 verses. I also believe the Chapter 7 should be in front of chapter 6. Why---the 1st verse of chapter 7.

I don't know what PC means so its kinda leaving me blind here. Of you mean the last Parenthetical Citation then it throws me off on the 2 verses, I guess we can cover that later. As per 17, 18 and 19, I will explain later why they are P.C. Chapters.

As per chapter 7 being in front of chapter 6, I disagree, but understand your argument because I used to think close to the same thing on chapter 7. Then I finally saw what was going on, it is indeed a part of the Chronological Order.

Please keep in mind what I said. "Revelation is for the most part in Chronological order." If we take out chapters 7, 10-14 and 2 more verses and the rest is Chronological, is that not the definition of "For the MOST PART"

You might also find that Isaiah is a group of Revelation prophecies that are not in order. Revelation gives them order.

It appears your interpretation of Revelation is totality different from my view of this book.

It is OK. we can agree to disagree.

So you see 10 through 14 the same way, and two verses somewhere else.

Chapter 7 is in order, even though the 144,000 are sealed, they are not 144,000, they are really 1/3 of the Jews, 12 x 12 x 12 = ALL ISRAEL, so it's probably 2 to 3 million Jews. God holds back the TRUMPET PLAGUES, not the SEALS !! Notice, He tells the Angel to HURT NOT, the Trees, Earth nor the Seas, all which are to be hurt in the Trumpet Judgments of Rev. chapter 8. God says WAIT UNTIL I Seal my people (Jews/144,000/ALL Jews who Repent and Flee unto Petra) in the head, or PROTECT THEM in Petra, then release the Trumpet Judgments on the Earth, Seas and Trees.

So the Seals are opened, the Jews Flee 30 days before this when they see the AoD, God protects them along the way no doubt like he did Israel when they left Egypt, remember Rev. 12 ? Satan chases them (via the Anti-Christ) and THE EARTH SWALLOWS UP THE FLOOD !! This means God protects them via the elements, and thus Satan gets mad and goes after THE SEED of Jesus or those who missed the Rapture but then gave their lives unto Christ Jesus afterwards, these will be the Martyrs under the Altar at the 5th Seal. So while the Seals (Anti-Christ is the White horse, Red horse, Black horse and Pale Green horse) com to pass, God is protecting Israel as they Flee to Petra with EAGLES WINGS (God Himself is protecting them). The 6th Seal comes, then the 7th Seal, which brings the TRUMPET JUDGMENTS........So Rev. 7 is in perfect order, its BETWEEN the Seals and the TRUMPETS, and we can see what is HELD BACK by God is the Trumpet Judgments, not the Seal Judgments. Remember, they FLEE for 1260 days, but just because we see their flight doesn't mean in Rev. 7, that doesn't mean it has be BEFORE Rev. ch. 6, we can be and are seeing them in REAL TIME, just after the Seals are broken, and just before God starts burning the trees, turning the seas to blood, and coming against the earth with Plagues.

Also, the GREAT MULTITUDE seen in Rev. ch. 7 is the Church, who is by now the Bride in Heaven, having married the Lamb already. They (WE) came out of the Church Age Tribulation period as in a 2000 year Tribulation period which is GREATER than the 70th Week 7 year tribulation period. Thus those seen in heaven came out of the Great Tribulation as in 2000>7.

We agree on chapters 10-14. I made a thread with a Revelation TIMELINE today, that might help a little on these back and forths. As per Rev. 17, that is the Harlot being KILLED off, Rev. 18 is Babylon (Whole World) receiving the plagues of God. Rev. 19 lasts for 7 years, it can't be a part of the Chronological Order by definition.

 

[iamlamad]

When the two witnesses are killed, the people of the earth celebrate and exchange presents. Revelation 11:10. When the earth is blue. Near the end of the first 1260 days, but still in the first half.

Differently, near the end of the 7 years, on brown earth, the waters turned to blood, and posioned, and all the green grass dead and brown, and the world full of disease and sickness, and the landscape of dead and rotting bodies - the kings of the earth will be gathering their armies, all drawn into the middle east, will be making ready at Armageddon to make war of Jesus.

You can be wrong of you choose to be - and you have chosen. I never found a verse where the earth is blue. You imagine things are too bad for people to celebrate. You are mistaken. Worse, you are rearranging Revelation and your theory will be proven wrong.