question on NDE

[Francis Drake]

Not so. The Bible is the Bible, regardless of translation or the comprehension of the individual reader, etc. So when we say the Bible is enough, it means that scripture--being the word of God as it is--has no equal in human reason, custom, theological opinion from famous and well-respected church leaders, or anything else of that sort.

You claim the bible is the final authority, but in reality its just people's opinions of the bible that is the final authority.
If that were not the case, there would be no denominations or contentious arguments over scripture in the church.

Ultimately, the final authority is not the bible, but what the Holy Spirit reveals to each man, whether he can find it in scripture or not.

 

[Albion]

You claim the bible is the final authority[/quote
Yes.

[quote but in reality its just people's opinions of the bible that is the final authority.

Of course it is the case that people, individuals, can misunderstand or misread that which is their guidebook, just as they can misread the directions on the medicine bottle, but that does not make the medicine worthless or defective.

And there seems to be some assumption in your line of thinking that each person is on his own in this regard and that whatever each person comes up with is what he ought to go with.

Ultimately, the final authority is not the bible, but what the Holy Spirit reveals to each man, whether he can find it in scripture or not.

The Holy Spirit never contradicts the Bible nor gives one essential article of belief to one person but denies it to another. He does lead the church into a right understanding of Scripture and the faith.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I have just read that you are a convert ,and that christianity therefore is not in your tradition . As a newbie you should be careful , but also you should be careful to respect those who have more experience than you .Just because you have not eperienced something does not mean it is not true and that there is nothing to learn . Why Don't you and some of the deniers here ask questions sometimes ?
People who say that 'scripture ' is enough , must say which version ,and which translation ,and how much ablity to understand has the individual .

There was so much said by Jesus which never made it into the Bible ,but I know that God has chosen some to understand those things which do not appear in the protestant bible particularly which is an edited one .

I thank you for your concern of my "newbie" status but I actually do take that into consideration. For instance, my husband has been Christian from the cradle and was instrumental in not only my conversion, but also is here anytime I have a question.

And, while I'm a new Christian I have been so for nearly 4 years, and while that isn't long, it's also not yesterday.

I'm the end, when I am incorrect I am certain my brothers will point anything out to me, or help explain things better than I can such as @Albion has done here in this thread. (God bless him)

Just because I'm new doesn't mean I have no knowledge in the end, and it's not a reason to silence me, especially as I don't believe anything outside mainstream Christianity.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Not so. The Bible is the Bible, regardless of translation or the comprehension of the individual reader, etc. So when we say the Bible is enough, it means that scripture--being the word of God as it is--has no equal in human reason, custom, theological opinion from famous and well-respected church leaders, or anything else of that sort.

You clearly speak only one language and know nothing about the nuances of translating into different languages with completely different cultures where there simply IS NO direct word for word translation. Even incredibly basic concepts like soul & spirit are profoundly misunderstood by Christian layman because there is no simple straightforward translation of either the Greek or Hebrew terms for soul and spirit into a simple English term.

The Bible was not written in English, it was INTERPRETED, and interpretation is always subject to human error, ESPECIALLY if you don't read it in the original languages.

 

[Albion]

You clearly speak only one language and know nothing about the nuances of translating into different languages with completely different cultures where there simply IS NO direct word for word translation.

Look, none of these limits on understanding take away from the fact that the Bible books can be correct in what they say. The issue you have is entirely with comprehending the contents, which also involves translations, idioms, and etc.

 

[Fascinated With God]

I thank you for your concern of my "newbie" status but I actually do take that into consideration. For instance, my husband has been Christian from the cradle and was instrumental in not only my conversion, but also is here anytime I have a question.

And HE doesn't respect any Christian theologians either? He tries to be his own priest of his own denomination? I would never presume to understand complex theological issues on my own without expert help, despite being a 6th generation Methodist. That is spiritual suicide.

Just because I'm new doesn't mean I have no knowledge in the end, and it's not a reason to silence me, especially as I don't believe anything outside mainstream Christianity.

You've stated that you refuse to seek advice from experts. That is anything BUT mainline. That is an exclusively unorthodox heterodoxical non-denominational approach. Like the Churches of God denomination where their preachers attend no seminary or divinity schools.

 

[Hazelelponi]

And HE doesn't respect any Christian theologians either and tries to be his own priest of his own denomination? I would never presume to understand complex theological issues on my own without expert help. That is spiritual suicide.


You've stated that you refuse to seek advice from experts. That is anything BUT mainline. That is an exclusively unorthodox heterodoxical non-denominational approach. Like the Churches of God denomination where their preachers attend no seminary or divinity schools.

If your speaking of my husband he studied Biblical (Koine) Greek in his college days, although that was long ago as he's in his 50's now, but he's certainly not forgotten it. We also have a Bible in nearly every translation in the house.. he loves the Book, I think it's his favorite.

He is his own preist though, God gave him that. He is reformed in doctrine, however.

You might not like that, although I'm quite sure my husband likely doesn't care what your opinion is.

Now that we have that out of the way..am I invited to the club house? Lol..

Do you really think just assuming things about people is a realistic endeavor? Perhaps you should ask.. not assume.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Look, none of these limits on understanding take away from the fact that the Bible books can be correct in what they say. The issue you have is entirely with comprehending the contents, which also involves translations, idioms, and etc.

Books are not living beings that can correct you when you misinterpret them. And Peter warns of such misinterpretations:

[Paul's] letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:16​

 

[Fascinated With God]

He is his own preist though, God gave him that. He is reformed in doctrine, however.

You might not like that, although I'm quite sure my husband likely doesn't care what your opinion is.

It's not my personal opinion. I respect his having many translations, but if your ideas are all in your head without bouncing them off of other's and testing them they are just fantasies in your head with no concrete reality. You NEED criticisms to refine your thoughts, or it is just ego. ESPECIALLY with theology, but this is universally true of any complex intellectual pursuit.

 

[Hazelelponi]

It's not my personal opinion. I respect his having many translations, but if your ideas are all in your head without bouncing them off of other's and testing them they are just fantasies in your head with no concrete reality. You NEED criticisms to refine your thoughts, or it is just ego.

Do you really mean to tell me I need to make sure with someone (just a random Christian or do you have a particular one in mind?) before I say something so basic like we cannot accept extra biblical teachings that contradict the Bible?

Is that what your seriously saying?

I mean, we aren't talking theological rocket science here..

 

[Fascinated With God]

So?

So what that it's in the Bible? LOL That's not a very good Christian approach.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Do you really mean to tell me I need to make sure with someone (just a random Christian or do you have a particular one in mind?) before I say something so basic like we cannot accept extra biblical teachings that contradict the Bible?

I specified theologians, not just any Tom, Dick & Harry. You NEED feedback, this is UNIVERSALLY true of ALL complex subjects. It's like going to college and deciding to never go to classes or talk to any profs while in college. You're chances of making good grades are extremely poor with that approach.

Is that what your seriously saying?

Yes, the only alternative is to live in a bubble that is probably a fantasy. "No man is an island unto himself."

I mean, we aren't talking theological rocket science here.

Correct, we are talking about something that makes rocket science look like grammar school. If you don't appreciate that then you are oversimplifying the Bible to meaninglessness.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I specified theologians, not just any Tom, Dick & Harry. You NEED feedback, this is UNIVERSALLY true of ALL complex subjects. It's like going to college and deciding to never go to classes or talk to any profs while in college. You're chances of making good grades are extremely poor with that approach.

Yes, the only alternative is to live in a bubble that is probably a fantasy. "No man is an island unto himself."


Correct, we are talking about something that makes rocket science look like grammar school. If you don't appreciate that then you are oversimplifying the Bible to meaninglessness.

So your telling me I'm living in some kind of fantasy because I think I am solid on enough theology to share some basics with people...

And your beliefs that I'm living in a fantasy world is BECAUSE I said we cannot accept things such as NDE's as being from God if they stand in clear contradiction to the Bible, and that many is not most do.

Nevermind that I am surrounded by lifelong Christians, never mind all the sitting in a pew listening to sermons and taking notes, never mind all the Bible studies and the years (total of 8) of learning Christianity from learned people who know what they are talking about, and nevermind that my theology I espouse is mainstream..

nope. According to you I'm in over my head and need to sit and listen to people espouse theological precepts in opposition to scripture and keep my mouth shut and learn from the masters. ..


Yeah.. and I'm the one with hubris.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

i have seen numerous youtube videos of NDE experiences that doesnt explain seeing Jesus, heaven etc.
I am a christian obviously, but im just confused why so many people have had similar experiences that doesnt include jesus etc.

I have seen also some explaining heaven and hell but a majority of them seem to just be about feeling peace, light etc.

Its just confusing and wanted to know why people are seeing this that are atheists and people that dont believe and why they dont just go straight to hell.
Or why people that even had a christian background dont explain it as we all seem to think how it is or should be.


Would love some insight.
Thanks so much

It’s a combination of things that is all best summed up by stating that God comes to us in the way God knows is what we need in the hour of our death. As a result, it will be a God-directed transition, but a personally unique experience for each. You shouldn’t waste too much time in the how or why or fashion it to fit the constraints of what we know as humans, simply trust that when the time comes, it will ultimately be ok because God is with you.

I just had a NDE. It’s hard to articulate, but it is very powerful.

 

[Fascinated With God]

So your telling me I'm living in some kind of fantasy because I think I am solid on enough theology to share some basics with people...

And your beliefs that I'm living in a fantasy world is BECAUSE I said we cannot accept things such as NDE's as being from God if they stand in clear contradiction to the Bible, and that many is not most do.

Nevermind that I am surrounded by lifelong Christians, never mind all the sitting in a pew listening to sermons and taking notes, never mind all the Bible studies and the years (total of 8) of learning Christianity from learned people who know what they are talking about, and nevermind that my theology I espouse is mainstream..

nope. According to you I'm in over my head and need to sit and listen to people espouse theological precepts in opposition to scripture and keep my mouth shut and learn from the masters. ..


Yeah.. and I'm the one with hubris.

You are surrounded by lifelong Christians who don't go to church and think they know it all already. That is hubris. I'm not talking about this particular debate anymore, this is going to taint everything you think about Christianity. If you reject all scholarship then you are GUARANTEED to misinterpret most theological concepts. Without expert knowledge, you can twist the Bible to mean ANYTHING you want, just as Peter says in the verse I quoted.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You are surrounded by lifelong Christians who don't go to church and think they know it all already. That is hubris. I'm not talking about this particular debate anymore, this is going to taint everything you think about Christianity. If you reject all scholarship then you are GUARANTEED to misinterpret most theological concepts. Without expert knowledge, you can twist the Bible to mean ANYTHING you want, just as Peter says in the verse I quoted.

What do you mean don't go to church? I never once said that.

Listen. I'm about done being under your little spotlight. Are you planning on having a discussion on the topic at hand? Or are you just going to continue with the 20 questions and false accusations.

If you have ANYTHING biblical about anything I've said in the thread as a response to the OP, then please state your case..

 

[Fascinated With God]

What do you mean don't go to church?

I never once said that.

We are reformed baptist. We attend church every Sunday morning, for both Sunday school and services. We attend Sunday evening, for Bible study. We also attend on Wednesday evening, for another Bible Study.

The only reason I have not been going these last couple of months, is that I am disabled and may have cancer (still looking into that) and cannot stand the pain long enough to sit through services atm.

Hopefully I'll get all this fixed physically soon, as it's difficult being bedridden... but I've not been like this very long.

The Christians I am surrounded by definitely are church going Christians. You may not like reformed Baptists, but again we are definitely mainstream enough.

Listen. I'm about done being under your little spotlight. Are you planning on having a discussion on the topic at hand? Or are you just going to continue with the 20 questions and false accusations.

If you have ANYTHING biblical about anything I've said in the thread as a response to the OP, then please state your case..

My condolences for your illness. I apologize for the misunderstanding, but you said you consult no one but your husband. That directly implies not going to church, which naturally sounds very odd under the circumstances. I don't know you're situation because you've been too vague and unintentionally misleading about it. So I apologize for not being able to make sense of what you are saying. I still don't understand, but if you are gravely ill it isn't any of my business.

 

[Fascinated With God]

We are reformed baptist.

That's a new one on me. My great aunt was thrice-widowed from Baptists ministers and she was very special in my life. Reformed Baptists is completely alien to me, I've never heard of such a thing. I couldn't possibly form an opinion without further research. I'll keep an eye out in the future if I ever see it again.

Once again, my condolences. And I deeply apologize for upsetting you during a grave illness. That is not what the doctor ordered....

 

[Hazelelponi]

OT.

 

[Blade]

I will say.. always make sure its in the word or goes inline with the word. And myself as WONDEFUL AWESOME so many of these have happen. I take with a grain of salt. The books have not been open yet..so.... if GOD has not open those books for ALL to be judged (but us..we have Christ) I WONDER sometimes what they saw.

Satan show'd Jesus the wonder of the world in a moments time. He can show people all kind of visions like God can. This is why we are told to ALWAYS test the spirits. So many do not. Get a dream see a vision.. no prayer.. no waiting on God..not making sure its written.. just RUN with it..

What are the FRUITS of the spirit? THATS how God moves