#MeToo Smearing Men Like Judge Kavanaugh 3,000 Years Ago

[Robin Mauro]

Isn't interesting how something like 1 out of every 4 women (probably more since most aren't even reported) in the U.S. have been sexually assaulted in some way and the loudest outcry always seems to be "What about the men?"

Well, what about men NOT raping, assaulting, and molesting women and then perhaps people wouldn't be able to take advantage of the situation on the much, much rarer occasions a false accusation may happen?

Yes Bekkilyn, so true, so true!

 

[Bumble Bee]

More importantly, how can you teach him to respect women?

I can teach him to respect women, but that won't protect him from women making false accusations.

 

[HannahT]

Anytime an accusation is made, it must be investigated, period. Raked over the coals? Are we still taking about your son? Have you heard excerpts from Kavanaugh's best friend's book about their college days, bragging about being drunk and chain ganging a woman? Have you heard college students from his college coming forward and saying the fraternity they were members of had a saying " No means yes and yes means anal?"
What is YOUR answer? To keep it as it has always been and still continues to be, that most women never cone forward because it is THEY who have always been raked over the coals?
This is the highest court in the land. Even potential cops are investigated thoroughly...friends and family talked to, schools, background checks....it is intense!
Is Ford having to move because of death threats okay with you?
Did you know Ford's therapist can verify she has been dealing with the emotional repercussions of this for years? That her husband will also verify this?
Investigate! It is all they can do if they truly want justice. If they truly want truth. But everything the good old boys have said has shown they don't. They called her a liar, without an investigation; a preponderancee of the evidence.
The writer of this article did too!
Is sexual assault okay with you?
Teach our son to be a man of God, then trust God to be with him in all his ways. What else can anyone do?

Holy Smokes! We aren't speaking of Ford, Kavanaugh, or my son. I wasn't even referencing any of those parties. Do you pray about your tendencies to make false assumptions and accusations? Might be something to think about.

Someone asked a question about defending off false accusations....and people go absolutely bananas. Why are people SO SCARED to discuss this?

In the case of your rant? They both been called liars, had death threats, and all the rest. We don't have enough evidence either way to know what it what. Hopefully, we can get some clarification soon. It sure sounds like you have made up your mine though - you clearly don't need any investigation. I mean your accusing me of NOT caring about sexual assault? Have you done your investigation to know that, or are you just throwing it out there for emotional purposes?

I personally think she is being used, and they broke her confidence before she was okay with it. They had the tools to do a basic investigation prior to outing her, and they didn't do it. Did you know that? They neglected their due negligence to this poor woman, and threw her out to the wolves. Actions speak louder than words when it come to caring. I don't see any care taken for her prior. They had tools in their toolbox to help her, and they didn't do anything except get in front of the cameras to say they believe her. No doubt that will be enough to pay her mortgage won't it. They should be ashamed - they knew what she was facing. They totally blindsided her, and no one seems to care about that part. I clearly feel something happened to her, but I have no idea what. None of us do despite the circus that is going on. Yet, please go ahead and make your judgements.

FYI, This circumstance has no relevance on the question asked.

 

[HannahT]

I can teach him to respect women, but that won't protect him from women making false accusations.

Sadly, it seems no one cares about that.

You see if mention something like that? Apparently all you want to talk about is 'what about the men', and don't care about rape. (eye rolls) No, those dots don't connect at all. It's a legitimate question. Something they are clearly too scared to discuss. Sad state of affairs.

 

[creslaw]

Really? these kids were known as heavy drinkers. I was completely sober the day I was shot and I can't tell you the date and it was more recent than these incidents. I don't know if he did it or not but the "somebody must remember argument" is faulty.

The "somebody must remember " argument is not sufficient of itself but it certainly is part of the evidence that is weighed in the balance when making an allegation against someone. When those who are named as witnesses do not remember either, that further tips the balance.

The fact that there are not only big memory gaps in the story, but also that the 'facts' of the story have changed, must also be considered.

Whether the complainant was complicit or coerced needs to be determined, and a female who regularly attended parties where drunken, sexual behaviour occurred has a more difficult credibility hurdle to clear.

Memory is malleable, and defence mechanisms that diminish personal responsibility, are factors that cannot be ignored when considering historic allegations of abuse.

To destroy a man's character & career should require a high burden of proof, especially when that man has witnesses who testify to his respect for women over the course of his life.

 

[Go Braves]

Some folks insisted that the ladies who accused Bill Cosby of sexual assault were just smearing America's dad.

 

[FireDragon76]

Traditionalist Catholics advocating for dismissing allegations of sexual assault? Given the recent history in modern times of the unveiling of sexual abuse coverups in the Catholic Church, how exactly is this man's opinion supposed to have any particular moral authority when it comes to discussions of justice in this matter?

 

[AnnaDeborah]

The allegations against Kavanaugh haven't been widely reported in the UK, so I'm unaware of the amount of evidence or the level of investigation that has been done. But one thing I have noticed that is common in these threads about sexual assault is the assumption by many contributors that most if not all accusations are false and aimed at 'smearing' or 'destroying' innocent men. It is excellent practice to consider a person innocent until proven guilty. But that should apply to the accuser as well as to the accused. You can't just assume a woman is lying because she makes an allegation about a man you respect or admire, any more than you should assume that he is guilty.

I don't know what level of evidence you need in the US to bring an accusation of historic assault, but I know in the UK, the whole process is very gruelling. I had a friend who made a report to the police - her initial interview took place in the same room where they interview people who have been arrested, but unlike those under arrest, she was not allowed any breaks (including toilet breaks) or even a drink of water during the SIX HOURS she was continuously questioned. She went through another two interviews, shorter in duration but equally gruelling, a couple of weeks apart. After that, they decided that her story was consistent enough to be worth investigating. You would have to be a very sick and/or determined individual to go through something like this just to work off a grudge against a man you didn't like. I am sure that some women do make false accusations. But knowing how widespread sexual assault is, and how stressful it is to make an accusation, I would be surprised if many women make false allegations.

As for how men can protect themselves against false allegations, the first and most important thing is to treat all women with respect. And yes, that WILL make a difference - look at those who have been found guilty in the past - I can't think of one who has been found guilty on the evidence of just one woman. Sexual predators tend to have many victims. So even if one woman is sick or wicked enough to make a false allegation, if the man she accuses is innocent and treats all women well, there are unlikely to be any other women backing her up.

The second thing men can do is to avoid being alone with a woman. While it's possible for a man to make inappropriate comments or touches in public, the risks of being spotted are high and it is simply not possible to commit a more serious offence without being seen. Most of the churches I have been in, the leaders have a rule of not meeting alone with anyone - if you need to discuss something confidential, then it is done in view of others, but out of earshot. Many church offices have glass walls for this reason.

 

[creslaw]

But one thing I have noticed that is common in these threads about sexual assault is the assumption by many contributors that most if not all accusations are false and aimed at 'smearing' or 'destroying' innocent men. It is excellent practice to consider a person innocent until proven guilty. But that should apply to the accuser as well as to the accused. You can't just assume a woman is lying because she makes an allegation about a man you respect or admire, any more than you should assume that he is guilty.

When it is a contest of credibility, the reputation of the accused is pertinent in deciding his guilt or innocence.
The claim of smearing can legitimately be made when the allegations are lacking in crucial evidence and are contaminated by obvious political bias.

Only the accused has the right to the presumption of innocence. The allegations must be proved by the accuser. If you start with the assumption that every accusation is true you undermine the legal system based on the presumption of innocence.

 

[Yarddog]

When it is a contest of credibility, the reputation of the accused is pertinent in deciding his guilt or innocence.
The claim of smearing can legitimately be made when the allegations are lacking in crucial evidence and are contaminated by obvious political bias.

Only the accused has the right to the presumption of innocence. The allegations must be proved by the accuser. If you start with the assumption that every accusation is true you undermine the legal system based on the presumption of innocence.

Well, you are speaking of legalities when a person has been charged in a crime. This doesn't necessarily apply outside of court. Since no one has been charged with a crime, credibility plays a huge part in this event. The more credible witnesses that come forth, a pattern emerges which can sway the opinions of the public and those to decide if the judge is the best candidate for the appointment.

 

[Yarddog]

Traditionalist Catholics advocating for dismissing allegations of sexual assault? Given the recent history in modern times of the unveiling of sexual abuse coverups in the Catholic Church, how exactly is this man's opinion supposed to have any particular moral authority when it comes to discussions of justice in this matter?

Exactly how does this matter??? He is Catholic but not employed within the Church and has connection with sexual abuse crimes within the Church. Supreme Court justices are not to rule on morality but instead on legality of matters.

 

[creslaw]

Well, you are speaking of legalities when a person has been charged in a crime. This doesn't necessarily apply outside of court. Since no one has been charged with a crime, credibility plays a huge part in this event. The more credible witnesses that come forth, a pattern emerges which can sway the opinions of the public and those to decide if the judge is the best candidate for the appointment.

This is not a formal court case but it is playing out in the court of public opinion - the result will impact the ballot box and so the future of the nation.

Witnesses are important but so too are the behaviour patterns of the accuser & the accused. The fact that one witness, Ford's school friend Andrea Evers, says they regularly attended parties where drunken, sexual activity occurred suggests the possibility that Ford's memories could be confused with other situations.

 

[Bumble Bee]

Well, you are speaking of legalities when a person has been charged in a crime. This doesn't necessarily apply outside of court. Since no one has been charged with a crime, credibility plays a huge part in this event. The more credible witnesses that come forth, a pattern emerges which can sway the opinions of the public and those to decide if the judge is the best candidate for the appointment.

And we are left with, again, the fact that none of the accusers have credible accusations. Their stories are full of holes.

 

[FireDragon76]

Exactly how does this matter??? He is Catholic but not employed within the Church and has connection with sexual abuse crimes within the Church. Supreme Court justices are not to rule on morality but instead on legality of matters.

Rev. Dr. Jules Gomes, the author of the attack on the character of Kavanaugh's accusers, I assume works in the Catholic Church. He seems to be a Catholic traditionalist, being as the original post that started this thread links to a Catholic traditionalist website.

 

[Yarddog]

And we are left with, again, the fact that none of the accusers have credible accusations. Their stories are full of holes.

And what evidence did you look at to make your decision? We have people who went to school with Kavanaugh including his room mate who have spoken about his drinking. We have a book written by Judge, the alleged other man in the room who writes about his friend, McKavanaugh, who drank and partied. There is Kavanaugh's year book which points to the same.

As a past heavy drinker, I can attest to not remembering clearly much of what goes on when is intoxicated.

 

[Yarddog]

Rev. Dr. Jules Gomes, the author of the attack on the character of Kavanaugh's accusers, I assume works in the Catholic Church. He seems to be a Catholic traditionalist, being as the original post that started this thread links to a Catholic traditionalist website.

He is an Anglican priest. St. Augustine's Anglican Church, Isle of Man.

 

[FireDragon76]

He is an Anglican priest. St. Augustine's Anglican Church, Isle of Man.

Ah... he's part of a vagantes church in Britain. That explains everything.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[creslaw]

If Kavanaugh is voted down and Trump nominates a woman judge, it might work very well for him in the midterms. I wonder, could the Republicans possibly want to lose the battle and win the war?

 

[Phil 1:21]

It is tragically ironic to me, that so many focus on the falsely accused, but no one asks how we can stop sexual assault.
In light of that, I think I am about done with this thread.

Perhaps that's because the topic of this thread IS men being falsely accused. I highly doubt anyone here is apathetic to rape, as you have alluded to. You're dangerously close to bearing false witness here.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Really? these kids were known as heavy drinkers. I was completely sober the day I was shot and I can't tell you the date and it was more recent than these incidents. I don't know if he did it or not but the "somebody must remember argument" is faulty.

You know if you attended an event or not? Don't you?

If someone was attacked at a party, you are going to remember that. She told someone what happened afterward. They talked about the party afterward. Where are all these partygoers? They can't possibly all have poor memories and remember nothing, not even whether they attended and whether Kavanaugh was there.