IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

[Archippus]

You are not looking at the context.
Right after the verse that says that the letter kills, it references the Law of Moses (as a whole) by the fact that it's laws initially came into being with it's laws etched in tablets of stone.

6 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
"7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:"
(2 Corinthians 3:7) (KJV).

"The Law of Moses brought only the promise of death, even though it was carved on stones and given in a wonderful way. Still the Law made Moses' face shine so brightly the people of Israel could not look at it, even though it was a fading glory. " (2 Corinthians 3:7) (CEV).

"The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses' face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away." (2 Corinthians 3:7) (NLT).

"Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law], was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses because of its brilliance, [a glory] that was to fade and pass away," (2 Corinthians 3:7) (AMPC).

"Yet that old system of law that led to death began with such glory that people could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For as he gave them God’s law to obey, his face shone out with the very glory of God—though the brightness was already fading away." (2 Corinthians 3:7) (TLB).

Oh I understand the context. The legalistic law could be faultlessly obeyed, so that law was not the letter that kills. That only leaves the moral law doesn't it. The law written on stone

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The fact you cannot yourself attain to what you believe is the true Gospel message, but you still insist it of others, means I am afraid you do not understand the true message of scripture

Let me relate this to you by way of a parable or real world example. I say this because Jesus gave us parables or real world examples all the time. In fact, even the Canaanite woman had expounded upon one of Jesus's parables with a continued parable of her own and Jesus commended her faith for it.

Anyways, here is a real world example.

The OSAS Proponent who believes they can never overcome grievous sin in this life is kind of like an alcoholic who joins a drug program so as to please a family member, but they have no intention of giving up their demon in the bottle because they have convinced themselves that it is impossible to stop drinking or to give up their sin of alcoholism.

The Christian who just reads and believes the Bible plainly and accepts it for what it says (Instead of trying to force a pre-conceived belief into the Bible by the teachings of men) is kind of like the alcoholic who joins a drug program who may stumble on rare occasion on his road to recovery in overcoming his sin of alcoholism. He can be sober free. In fact, today we know people can stop drinking by entering these special programs. But with Jesus, He can do so much more in a person's life in helping a person to overcome sin.

For there is nothing that can tranform or changes lives more than Jesus Christ; That is part of the reason why God's people preach the good news of Jesus Christ so as to be saved by Him. For Jesus has fixed up broken homes (or familes). Jesus has drawn the alcoholic away from the bottle. Jesus has helped the gambler to put down his cards and walk away from the game. Jesus has helped the drug addict from the power of the needle. Jesus has helped the harlot from being a slave to sexual sin and money. For Jesus Christ changes lives. Jesus changed my life and He continues to change lives today (Making them new creations in His image).

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
(2 Corinthians 5:17).

So....

"...put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).

"...For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

 

[Archippus]

Not true.

When I posted these verses here in Post #826, your reply in Post #830 did not address any of them.

You also did not give me an explanation on Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, and Romans 13:14.

Lets go to Matthew ch5, as you quoted from there:

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in(in, in) the kingdom of heaven verse 19

Jesus is contradicting your theology isn't he

 

[Neogaia777]

The Pharisees neglected the love of God(Luke11:42) Why? They thought they could attain heaven by being good enough under the law. In such circumstances they would not rely on the great love, mercy and compassion of God, so they neglected it.

Who needs a saviour from sin if they never, or very rarely commit any sin at all? Consequently Jesus is also neglected by those who believe they are nigh on sinless/fully obey the moral law

Most of them trade some sin, for worse sin sometimes if you ask me...

Sad...

God Bless!

 

[Archippus]

You are not explaining how my interpretation is wrong and how your interpretation is correct in this particular case. Give to me a word by word commentary on 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10 and how that relates to 1 John 2:3-4. My guess is that you cannot do that all too well all on your own (with it defending your viewpoint and yet aligning plainly with what 1 John 1, and 1 John 2 says).

I am certainly not going to go all round the houses to help you try and overturn the plainly written words of John, no.

 

[Neogaia777]

Carry each others burdens, and so FULFILL the law of Christ Gal6:2

That is an action (work) and not a belief alone in Jesus.

No, it's what Love does...

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Oh I understand the context. The legalistic law could be faultlessly obeyed, so that law was not the letter that kills. That only leaves the moral law doesn't it. The law written on stone

Not at all. A man died for collecting sticks on the Sabbath. He obviously could not keep that Law. Also, the rich young ruler said he kept the Moral Law. Yet, Jesus was saying that the demands of the Moral Law was even more. Jesus was not saying this as a way for the rich young ruler to deny law keeping altogether, but Jesus said this so as to get this rich young ruler to trust in God so as to overcome His sins. For Jesu said that with God all things are possible in reply to the disciple's bewilderment over who could be saved.

 

[Archippus]

Let me relate this to you by way of a parable or real world example. I say this because Jesus gave us parables or real world examples all the time. In fact, even the Canaanite woman had expounded upon one of Jesus's parables with a continued parable of her own and Jesus commended her faith for it.

Anyways, here is a real world example.

The OSAS Proponent who believes they can never overcome grievous sin in this life is kind of like an alcoholic who joins a drug program so as to please a family member, but they have no intention of giving up their demon in the bottle because they have convinced themselves that it is impossible to stop drinking or to give up their sin of alcoholism.

The Christian who just reads and believes the Bible plainly and accepts it for what it says (Instead of trying to force a pre-conceived belief into the Bible by the teachings of men) is kind of like the alcoholic who joins a drug program who may stumble on rare occasion on his road to recovery in overcoming his sin of alcoholism. He can be sober free. In fact, today we know people can stop drinking by entering these special programs. But with Jesus, He can do so much more in a person's life in helping a person to overcome sin.

For there is nothing that can tranform or changes lives more than Jesus Christ; That is part of the reason why God's people preach the good news of Jesus Christ so as to be saved by Him. For Jesus has fixed up broken homes (or familes). Jesus has drawn the alcoholic away from the bottle. Jesus has helped the gambler to put down his cards and walk away from the game. Jesus has helped the drug addict from the power of the needle. Jesus has helped the harlot from being a slave to sexual sin and money. For Jesus Christ changes lives. Jesus changed my life and He continues to change lives today (Making them new creations in His image).

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
(2 Corinthians 5:17).

So....

"...put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:14).

"...For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

Jesus certainly can change us, absolutely. However, that does not change the fact you cannot fully obey the moral law. I'm afraid your preaching is the worst possible(just being honest here) Making statements you know you cannot personally live up to in your own life. That helps no one, and shows no love for your neighbour

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am certainly not going to go all round the houses to help you try and overturn the plainly written words of John, no.

I am asking you to explain what these verses mean in your own words that defends the Eternal Security viewpoint.

 

[Archippus]

Not at all. A man died for collecting sticks on the Sabbath. He obviously could not keep that Law. Also, the rich young ruler said he kept the Moral Law. Yet, Jesus was saying that the demands of the Moral Law was even more. Jesus was not saying this as a way for the rich young ruler to deny law keeping altogether, but Jesus said this so as to get this rich young ruler to trust in God so as to overcome His sins. For Jesu said that with God all things are possible in reply to the disciple's bewilderment over who could be saved.

Well if all things are possible, and you take that to mean you can perfectly obey the moral law, why can you not perfectly obey it

BTW
Safe to assume the man collecting sticks on the sabbath did not want in his heart to obey that law. And yes, the demands of the moral law are far greater than you appear to understand

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus certainly can change us, absolutely.

No. You don't believe that. You said to me repeatedly that we cannot overcome sin and or obey the Moral Law and that we are all imperfect and we sin.

However, that does not change the fact you cannot fully obey the moral law.

See. You just contradicted yourself.
You are not changed by Jesus if you cannot keep the Moral Law.

I'm afraid your preaching is the worst possible(just being honest here) Making statements you know you cannot personally live up to in your own life. That helps no one, and shows no love for your neighbour

That is just a blind false accusation that makes no sense and is not true.
I do have love for my neighbor in the fact that I do not want them to justify that they can sin and still be saved (Thereby living a hypocritical life by telling people to follow the good book and yet they themselves do not obey it).

 

[Archippus]

I am asking you to explain what these verses mean in your own words that defends the Eternal Security viewpoint.

Why are you mentioning eternal security? I have not mentioned OSAS. You are simply trying to change the plainly written word. As you refuse to address so much of what I swrite, why should we only discuss what you write?

 

[Archippus]

No. You don't believe that. You said to me repeatedly that we cannot overcome sin and or obey the Moral Law and that we are all imperfect and we sin.



See. You just contradicted yourself.
You are not changed by Jesus if you cannot keep the Moral Law.



That is just a blind false accusation that makes no sense and is not true.
I do have love for my neighbor in the fact that I do not want them to justify that they can sin and still be saved (Thereby living a hypocritical life by telling people to follow the good book and yet they themselves do not obey it).

I have given you plenty of opportunity to confirm you fully obey the moral law but you remain silent don't you. It is a pity you cannot see that Jesus changes us, but at the same time realise that does not mean you in your humanity will live a perfect life in your flesh. You will not

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Safe to assume the man collecting sticks on the sabbath did not want in his heart to obey that law. And yes, the demands of the moral law are far greater than you appear to understand

Actually, this shows that not everyone found it easy to obey the Sabbath. In fact, I believe it is more difficult to follow so many regulations or ceremonies than it is to just love your neighbor. You have to remember to keep certain days, months, and years and keep specific ceremonies and do specific things in a ritual. That's not easy.

Colossians 2:14-17 says Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us. Paul relates this to Sabbaths, dietary laws, and new moons, etc.

 

[Archippus]

Actually, this shows that not everyone found it easy to obey the Sabbath. In fact, I believe it is more difficult to follow so many regulations or ceremonies than it is to just love your neighbor. You have to remember to keep certain days, months, and years and keep specific ceremonies and do specific things in a ritual. That's not easy. But you can tell yourself a lie if you like.

Colossians 2:14-17 says Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us. Paul relates this to Sabbaths, dietary laws, and new moons, etc.

It would not be hard not to pick up sticks on the sabbath Jason.
It is impossible to love your neighbour if you demand of him what you do not demand of yourself

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have given you plenty of opportunity to confirm you fully obey the moral law but you remain silent don't you. It is a pity you cannot see that Jesus changes us, but at the same time realise that does not mean you in your humanity will live a perfect life in your flesh. You will not

My life is not the standard, God's Word is the standard. I also told you before I don't discuss my personal life on the internet, as well; For most people do not have your best interest at heart. We are also to stick to Scripture to discuss topics on a forum and not make it about the poster (According to the forum rules). Please see the forum rules about discussion on topics. You are not to make this discussion about me. We are to discuss the topic using Scripture.

 

[Archippus]

My life is not the standard, God's Word is the standard. I also told you before I don't discuss my personal life on the internet, as well; For most people do not have your best interest at heart. We are also to stick to Scripture to discuss topics on a forum and not make it about the poster (According to the forum rules). Please see the forum rules about discussion on topics. You are not to make this discussion about me. We are to discuss the topic using Scripture.

OK.What do you think of these kinds of people:

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practise what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It would not be hard not to pick up sticks on the sabbath Jason.
It is impossible to love your neighbour if you demand of him what you do not demand of yourself

You honestly have no idea of all the ceremonial laws in the Old Testament.

Here is what you would have to keep:

https://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

Seems like a lot more than you think.

 

[Archippus]

My life is not the standard, God's Word is the standard. .

Well if you cannot live up to the standard you insist is the standard everyone else must live up to, to attain heaven, people should know that. It either shows you are condemned, or do not understand the message

 

[Archippus]

You honestly have no idea of all the ceremonial laws in the Old Testament.

Here is what you would have to keep:

https://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

Seems like a lot more than you think.

Keep your links Jason. It is true, it is not so hard not to pick up sticks on the sabbath. That is the post you responded to