IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

[Dan the deacon]

Actually, the Scriptures testify of Jesus Christ.
For we would not have faith in Jesus without God's Word.
For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
I do not believe we can separate Jesus from His Word.
They breath together because they show us the mind of Christ and His will for our life. The Scriptures show us the gospel and the truth of Jesus (Which is salvation). Without God's Word pointing us to Jesus, we would be lost.

When Jesus returns, He is called the Word of God.

So you really believe the only way you can hear God is through Scripture? I hear God during prayer. I hear God throughout the day. And yes I also hear God while in the scripture. But not only then. I did not come to Christ through scripture. I came to Christ by the draw of the Holy Spirit.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Those not forgiven of their sins are not under the law either.

Anyone who breaks God's LAW is under the law.

ROMANS 3:9 9, What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: for we have before proved both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin

ROMANS 3:19 Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Yeps looks like God is no respector of persons (Romans 2:11)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, but they know the difference between love and hate. Hate can keep the Ten Commandments any day. But love does not need them.

No one loves another while breaking any of God's LAW because on these two commandments of LOVE Jesus says hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It simply says you do not know the NT teaching on the Ten Commandments. Paul proves this when he says “To the Jews I became like a Jew to gain the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law) to gain those under the law.” (1 Corinthians 9:20)

Well that staement has no truth in it Dave.

You have chosen to simply ignore the post and the scriptures in them or will you reply to the post and the scriptures in them that disagree with your teachings that God's LAW is abolished. This is why it was stated earlier you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is?

The post you have written above does not even address the post you are quoting from ?

DEUTERONOMY 10:5 [5] And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they are, as the LORD commanded me.

Yep there is the 10 Commandments housed in the ARK of the COVENANT.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

Well here you go now Dave can you now see your error here?

EXODUS 24:7 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

..............

CONCLUSION: The ARK [House of the COVENANT] held God's 10 Commandments [2x tables of stone] and the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT . Together these made up the OLD COVENANT.

Yep seems like you are only telling half the story here. Can you see your error now?

Of course Paul is not "UNDER THE LAW" he has been forgiven. Only those who CONTINE in SIN according to ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3 are "UNDER THE LAW"
Everyone who has sinned is under the law because they are guilty of breaking it.

Hope this helps

 

[Dave L]

Well that staement has no truth in it Dave.

You have chosen to simply ignore the post and the scriptures in them or will you reply to the post and the scriptures in them that disagree with your teachings that God's LAW is abolished. This is why it was stated earlier you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is?

The post you have written above does not even address the post you are quoting from ?

DEUTERONOMY 10:5 [5] And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they are, as the LORD commanded me.

Yep there is the 10 Commandments housed in the ARK of the COVENANT.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

Well here you go now Dave can you now see your error here?

EXODUS 24:7 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

..............

CONCLUSION: The ARK [House of the COVENANT] held God's 10 Commandments [2x tables of stone] and the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT . Together these made up the OLD COVENANT.

Yep seems like you are only telling half the story here. Can you see your error now?

Of course Paul is not "UNDER THE LAW" he has been forgiven. Only those who CONTINE in SIN according to ROMANS 2 and ROMANS 3 are "UNDER THE LAW"

Hope this helps

Are you calling Paul a liar?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Are you calling Paul a liar?

Nope I agree with him are you? Thats why I posted ROMANS 3:19

 

[Dave L]

No one loves another while breaking any of God's LAW because on these two commandments of LOVE Jesus says hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40)

Regardless, those who are born again do not want to steal or kill. The law was for wicked people.

 

[Dave L]

Nope I agree with him are you?

I'm only quoting Paul without comment. “To the Jews I became like a Jew to gain the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law) to gain those under the law.” (1 Corinthians 9:20)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Regardless, those who are born again do not want to steal or kill. The law was for wicked people.

The Law still is for wicked people unless your saying there is no longer any wicked people?

 

[Dave L]

Anyone who breaks God's LAW is under the law.

ROMANS 3:9 9, What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: for we have before proved both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin

ROMANS 3:19 Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Yeps looks like God is no respector of persons (Romans 2:11)

The Law was for ancient Jews only. You are teaching against Paul. “To the Jews I became like a Jew to gain the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law) to gain those under the law.” (1 Corinthians 9:20)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'm only quoting Paul without comment. “To the Jews I became like a Jew to gain the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law) to gain those under the law.” (1 Corinthians 9:20)

I was too but you did not read Romans 2 and Romans 3 and do not know what it means when Paul says to be "UNDER THE LAW"

 

[Dave L]

I was too but you did not read Romans 2 and Romans 3 and do not know what it means to be "UNDER THE LAW"

You were never under the Law as a gentile.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You were never under the Law as a gentile.

God's WORD disagrees with you. Everyone is under the law if they break it. All are sinners and stand guilty before God.

ROMANS 3:9-19
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: for we have before proved both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
[10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
]17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19], Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

To be "UNDER THE LAW" means to be guilty of breaking it.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dave L]

God's WORD disagrees with you. Everyone is under the law if they break it. All are sinners and stand guilty before God.

ROMANS 3:9-19
[9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no way: for we have before proved both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
[10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
[12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
[13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
]17], And the way of peace have they not known:
[18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
[19], Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

To be "UNDER THE LAW" means to be guilty of breaking it.

Hope this helps.

“Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.” (Acts 15:19–20)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

“Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.” (Acts 15:19–20)

Hmmm not responding to the post you are quoting from again Dave and off on another random topic? Ok let's look it ACTS 15

You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.

ACTS 15:1:21

[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

...........

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.

They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..

...........

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

...........

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation.

...........

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.

[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

...........

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

...........

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

............

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15

You do not believe brother Dave, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

...........

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.

[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.

[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

[23], And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greetings unto the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

[24], Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

[25], It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

[26], Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[27], We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

[28], For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

[29], That you abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Farewell.

.................

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.

NOPE nothing written about the 10 Commandments in this chapter. Here is what PAUL says of the matter here...

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Yep you may need to revisit your thinking of ACTS 15. CIRCUMCISION is not the 10 Commandments. It is from the Shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.


Hope this helps.

 

[Dan the deacon]

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
This is how Jesus describes how we are to love Him.
Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (See 1 Corinthians 16:22). Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).

But why do you believe this means the ten commandments? Do graduates still only follow their old teacher? So again I ask what commandment are spoken of in the New Testament?

 

[Saint Steven]

Indeed he repented from his Sins and was forgiven by Faith.

And the thrust of his ministry was 180 degrees contrary to what you are up to.

Acts 21:21
They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.

 

[Dan the deacon]

God is my judge brother not you. We are not to judge each other. (Romans 2:1-13)

Odd. You just judged him of judging you. So that verse only applies to others? My friend, we all.judge right from wrong. To really judge one must impose a sentence or say one is not guilty. Saying you do not agree is not judging.

 

[Dave L]

Hmmm not responding to the post you are quoting from again Dave and off on another random topic? Ok let's look it ACTS 15

You need to go back to the CONTEXT of the chapter to understand what ACTS 15 is talking about here to define the topic of conversation that the chapter is trying to address. Let's determine the topic of conversation and the question that the chapter is trying to decide on.

ACTS 15:1:21

[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

...........

[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

...........

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 there was much arguing over the claims of the Jewish believers who are claiming that unless the gentiles are circumcised they cannot be saved. They then determined that Paul and Barnabas must go to Jerusalem to the Apostles and elders ABOUT THIS QUESTION. Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.

They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their cas first..

...........

[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

...........

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation.

...........

[6], And the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.

[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

...........

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being uncircumcised.

...........

[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

............

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...

ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORITHIANS do not make any sense.

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15

You do not believe brother Dave, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

...........

[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.

[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.

[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

[19], Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

[20], But that we write unto them, that they abstain from defilements of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

[21], For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

[23], And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greetings unto the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

[24], Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

[25], It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

[26], Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[27], We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

[28], For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

[29], That you abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Farewell.

.................

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter. v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts they will learn more about God as Moses is preached when? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.

NOPE nothing written about the 10 Commandments in this chapter. Here is what PAUL says of the matter here...

1 CORITHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Yep you may need to revisit your thinking of ACTS 15. CIRCUMCISION is not the 10 Commandments. It is from the Shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.


Hope this helps.

It still remains unchallenged. Jesus replaced the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant) with the New Covenant on the cross. And we use the Ten Commandments for instruction and commentary. But we do not keep the Sabbath.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

And the thrust of his ministry was 180 degrees contrary to what you are up to.

Not at all Steve, Paul proclaimed and obeyed God's 10 commandments just like JESUS and all the other Apostles.

SCRIPTURE SUPPORT HERE CLICK ME

Acts 21:21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.

INDEED no more need for the shadow laws of CIRCUMCISION and sin offereings of the MOSAIC BOOK of the covenant.