Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[GodsGrace101]

Why can't you just move on? All I did was suggest you proof read before posting. I had no idea what actual verse you meant. How could I? You need to just get over it.


I try not to assume.


Waa, waa, waa. Just get over it.

You're really rather hypersentive about this, obviously.


Do you really think anyone else who reads your posts knew what you meant?


Said the one who doesn't understand it.

 

[GodsGrace101]

It seems rather clear that JLB doesn't understand the difference between a description and a condition.

LOL
It seems rather clear that YOU don't understand what a condition is...
For example...
verse 27 of John 10:27-28

 

[GodsGrace101]

This is a total lie. Or are you just real ignorant of what I've posted?

I've been explaining v.27 all along. I've disregarded NOTHING, other than your false views.


Believers, per Johhn 10:9 and these verses:
Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I hope you will at least read each of these verses and look real closely to see how many of these verse about how to be saved and have eternal life mention anything about lifestyle, following, etc.


This is a description, not a condition. See the 24 verses above if interested in the condition for being saved and having eternal life.


No, not "conditions", as you opine. He has but one; believing in His Son. As the list of 24 verses PROVE.


Again, your comprehension skills are in need of help. v.27 is NOT a condition for receiving eternal life.


The fact that you have demonstrated over and over just how poorly you've understood these simple verses doesn't speak well of yourself.

In all the verses you posted, one must either BELIEVE (the Koine Greek type of believe) or have FAITH to be saved.
Present tense.

John 10:27 is the CONDITION for receiving eternal life.
We must
hear
know
follow JESUS.

OR it could be a DESCRIPTION of someone who WILL receive eternal life. No difference...the meaning remains the same.

 

[Gr8Grace]

First of all, don't put words I didn't say into MY mouth.

I have read your post's as to your rendering of 1 Cor 3:15. According to how interpret it.......Paul had a good chance as if he was saved by fire and suffered great loss. Because He tells us in Timothy that pretty much everyone deserted him at the end of his life.

If they(all of the people he taught and brought to the Lord) all fell away from the truth And most of Paul's 'work'(his converts and students) burned up in hell fire in the end.........Paul would have suffered great loss and saved as if through fire. I am following your logic out to the end. And it is sad.

 

[Gr8Grace]

LOL
It seems rather clear that YOU don't understand what a condition is...
For example...
verse 27 of John 10:27-28

It seems rather clear that you don't understand that they are ALREADY his sheep in vs 27.New American Standard Bible
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

 

[GodsGrace101]

I have read your post's as to your rendering of 1 Cor 3:15. According to how interpret it.......Paul had a good chance as if he was saved by fire and suffered great loss. Because He tells us in Timothy that pretty much everyone deserted him at the end of his life.

If they(all of the people he taught and brought to the Lord) all fell away from the truth And most of Paul's 'work'(his converts and students) burned up in hell fire in the end.........Paul would have suffered great loss and saved as if through fire. I am following your logic out to the end. And it is sad.

FUNNY!

1. It's not MY rendering. I'm not a theologian...I posted many commentaries to help you along since you need the help.

2. Re Paul's converts falling away and burning in hell, or him, or whatever nonsense you said:

I thought you believed in OSAS?
So how did Paul's converts FALL AWAY?

 

[GodsGrace101]

It seems rather clear that you don't understand that they are ALREADY his sheep in vs 27.New American Standard Bible
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

Who said they aren't?

 

[FreeGrace2]

What Jesus sheep do their whole life, not just a day or week or year.

Whatever.

If that were true, why the commands to "continue in the faith", all without warnings of loss of salvation?

Faithful their whole life.

Except you continue to reject all the verses that teach that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. That means they possess it WHEN they believe.

You've failed to prove otherwise.

If they become lost, they must repent or perish.

Jesus said His sheep (believers) shall never, no, not ever, perish.

Why do you trample on what the Lord Jesus said?

Does one of His sheep who becomes lost need to be saved?

His sheep cannot be lost in the sense of unsaved.

But you don't believe what Jesus says about this, so I don't expect you to grasp this.

 

[FreeGrace2]

View attachment 238246

Just speechless, I see.

lol

 

[FreeGrace2]

View attachment 238247

please don't cry. It'll be over soon.

 

[FreeGrace2]

LOL
It seems rather clear that YOU don't understand what a condition is...
For example...
verse 27 of John 10:27-28

OK, please provide the exact words that indicate a condition to be met in v.27.

Can't wait.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Who said they aren't?

If you and I are His sheep . Then verse 28 applies to us.

We have eternal life and will Never, no not ever perish.

Could you or I possibly perish? If your answer is yes. Then we cannot possibly be His sheep right now.

 

[FreeGrace2]

In all the verses you posted, one must either BELIEVE (the Koine Greek type of believe) or have FAITH to be saved.
Present tense.

So? Please explain the meaning of the present tense.

But never mind. I'll tell you, since you obviously don't know.

It means that the MOMENT one believes (that means when they believe IS the present in terms of the believer) they ARE saved.

But Arminians abuse the present tense and insist it means they MUST CONTINUE to believe in order to continue to be saved.

But, all the times 'believe' is in the aorist tense destroys that notion.

And our sealing is based on a past action (aorist tense) of believing which results in a guarantee of our inheritance until the day of redemption.

But you can't explain that, huh.

John 10:27 is the CONDITION for receiving eternal life.
We must
hear
know
follow JESUS.

Except we don't find the words "we must..." in order to never perish.

That's what a condition looks like, which you seem oblivious to.

OR it could be a DESCRIPTION of someone who WILL receive eternal life. No difference...the meaning remains the same.

So, to you, there is no difference between a condition and a description.

Yep, you really do need a primer on the meaning of words in English.

 

[FreeGrace2]

GodsGrace101 said: ↑
Who said they aren't?

If you and I are His sheep . Then verse 28 applies to us.

We have eternal life and will Never, no not ever perish.

Could you or I possibly perish? If your answer is yes. Then we cannot possibly be His sheep right now.

Oh, oh. Now you confused her with some FACTS.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Choosing to place our faith?

It's seems you are mixing together faith and believe as if they mean the same thing.


I see now why you are so confused about obeying the Gospel, as the action of faith.


Faith is a noun. Faith is the substance of the thing we are hoping for.

Faith is a thing.

Faith is what we receive from God when we hear Him.

Faith is dormant or dead until it is activated by our obedience to the word of faith from God.


Example:


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22

• Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac

Not good works
Not the works of the law
Not works that earn a wage


The work of obedience.


Abraham obeyed the word from God, by which he received faith, that said -

Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.” Genesis 22:2​

This is the word from God that Abraham obeyed, by which he was justified "by faith".


Abraham believed God, therefore he obeyed Him.

Faith without this action of obedience is dead, dormant, lifeless, inactive and incomplete, just as a body without a spirit is dead and lifeless, in active and incomplete; unable to function.

• Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

Perfect here means complete.

If faith does not have the corresponding action of obedience, it is incomplete; dormant, dead and unable to function and produce the intended divine result. In this case of Abraham, it was justification.


That is what "by faith" [justified by faith] means: God spoke and someone obeyed.


That's why it's called the obedience of faith.

The entire book of Romans is describing the obedience of faith, which is why it begins and ends with this principle. Paul calls this the law of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


Romans 10 says it this way -


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Does it say believe unto salvation or confession unto salvation?


This is obeying the Gospel command repent: Confessing Jesus as Lord.




JLB

The word justified in James 2:21 is dikaióō which can also mean to show or exhibit one to be righteous. I think Abraham was justified long before offering Issac because he had obeyed God constantly. Offering Issac wasn’t the first time he obeyed God so I think the context being used in James 2 is that he was shown to be righteous.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

justified


G1344


Lemma:

δικαιόω


Transliteration:

dikaióō


Pronounce:

dik-ah-yo'-o


Part of Speech:

Verb


Language:

greek


Description:

1) to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

 

[Danthemailman]

So believing is a work?

Believing is clearly not a work that merits our salvation. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption). *Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow conversion" and are produced "out of" faith.

Believing is not simply just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works.

 

[Danthemailman]

That is where believing comes in.

Believe in a verb: An action word.

Faith is a noun: a person place or thing.

Faith is the substance of the thing we are hoping for.

Faith is the substance of the salvation we are hoping for.

Once again, the Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Why do you think that "believe" and "faith" result in the same end -- salvation/eternal life? (John 3:18; Acts 16:31; Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8 etc..). Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe/have faith in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you.

*This belief/faith results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief.

Strong's #4100: pisteuo (pronounced pist-yoo'-o) from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe, commit (to trust), put in trust with.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

pisteuō

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thing

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G4100/pisteuo.htm

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 1 Thessalonians 5:8

Notice the word hope there. This hope is not some wishy washy cross your fingers hope I make to heaven kind of hope. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain:

*Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things HOPED for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

Salvation is the end result of faith for salvation.

receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

Amen! From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works.

 

[Danthemailman]

Again faith is what we receive from God when He speaks to us.

Romans 10:17 - So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Believe and obey is our part the we do, that activates the faith we have when God speaks to us.

You make it sound like our faith is dead UNTIL we produce obedience/works and then it finally comes to life and saves us (saved by faith and works), which is false. We are made alive with Christ and saved by grace through faith and not by obedience/works which follows (Ephesians 2:5-10).

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

Noah responded in obedience and built the Ark:

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Building the ark demonstrated his faith and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning (Hebrews 11:7).

The righteousness of faith is about obeying.

The righteousness of faith is about believing. Obedience which follows is about works and we are not saved by works.

OSAS teaches that Noah could have believed in his heart that God would build the Ark, taking no action of obedience, but only believing, in which he would still be considered righteous even though he disobeyed God, and did not build the Ark.

Straw man argument. If Noah had refused to build the ark, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith and ended up drowning with everyone else, yet that was not the case and Noah was already considered righteous (found grace/was a preacher of righteousness) BEFORE he built the ark.

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8

Abraham believed God, therefore he obeyed.

It was by or "out of" faith that Abraham obeyed God and not his faith was in essence his obedience/works. Also, Genesis 12 is not the end of the story there. In Genesis 15:5, we read that God brought Abraham outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, so shall your descendants be.” 6 And he believed in the Lord, and it (faith, not works) was accounted it to him for righteousness.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I've been posting to you for almost three years now.

Time really flies when you're having fun, doesn't it.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Time really flies when you're having fun, doesn't it.

You noticed!