Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[FreeGrace2]

Do you understand English well?

It appears much better than yourself, given your frequent misunderstanding of very simple and clear verses.

You could reread my posts regarding this again since you have obviously misunderstood every word I've said.

Well, along with your grasp of English, maybe your communication skills need some help.

And since you misunderstood that, you might actually misunderstand both scripture and everything some here have been saying about it. Which explains a lot.

Your posts explain just how much help is needed with the English language and how to communicate.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I've been posting to you for almost three years now.
This is the first time I made a slight mistake in a number.

Why can't you just move on? All I did was suggest you proof read before posting. I had no idea what actual verse you meant. How could I? You need to just get over it.

You could have assumed I made a mistake instead of telling me that the verse has nothing to do with what we were discussing. You must really not understand people at all.

I try not to assume.

As to proof-reading; LOL It's not like this is all I have to do. If I proof-read, it'll take me twice as long to post anything.

Waa, waa, waa. Just get over it.

You're really rather hypersentive about this, obviously.

I rarely make mistakes. It's not a mistake to speak to you because you know why I do this. It's not for YOU.

Do you really think anyone else who reads your posts knew what you meant?

You're referring to exegesis...
Yes. You really should learn more about how it's done.

Said the one who doesn't understand it.

 

[JLB777]

Nope. I've just exposed all your false doctrine. Which you don't like very much.


Your beliefs are REFUTED by Scripture.


I've already REFUTED that false teaching with a long list of verses about both salvation and eternal life. They are obtained by faith in Christ. Nothing about lifestyle.


Nothing here about having to follow to receive eternal life.

The wording itself REFUTES your wrong understanding. v.27 is clearly a description of His sheep. It's what they do. There are NO WORDS that indicate a condition for being His sheep, which is your faulty claim.

The condition for being saved (being His sheep) is found earlier in John 10.
9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

This verse, which you have to reject to hold on to your own false views, refutes your views.

The verse is a metaphor for faith in Christ. That's who becomes His sheep.

But you are not interested in the truth. Only your own wrong opinions.


This is hilarious. In fact, this statement applies directly to yourself. So look in the closest mirror when you repeat that.


Yes, very ironic that your claims apply to yourself.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27



But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:21




JLB

 

[Danthemailman]

Believe means trust and commit to obey.

More works salvation confusion.

Strong's #4100: pisteuo (pronounced pist-yoo'-o)

from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe, commit (to trust), put in trust with.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

pisteuō

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thing

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G4100/pisteuo.htm

The work that justifies and saves is obedience.

John 6:28 - Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Choosing to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation is the act of obedience that justifies. Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith (not faith and works), we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace (not faith and works) in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Obeying the Gospel.

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES..

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, I also have been finding this ironic.
The scripture one poster refers to is the very scripture that refutes what he is stating!

I believe it's verse 27 that is causing him the problem.
He likes to disregard that verse...

This is a total lie. Or are you just real ignorant of what I've posted?

I've been explaining v.27 all along. I've disregarded NOTHING, other than your false views.

John 10:27-28 Jesus said.
27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

Jesus gives ETERNAL LIFE TO THEM.
Who is THEM?

Believers, per Johhn 10:9 and these verses:
Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I hope you will at least read each of these verses and look real closely to see how many of these verse about how to be saved and have eternal life mention anything about lifestyle, following, etc.

HIS SHEEP, who hear His voice,
He knows them,
THEY follow Him.

This is a description, not a condition. See the 24 verses above if interested in the condition for being saved and having eternal life.

God has always had conditions to be a member of His Kingdom...

No, not "conditions", as you opine. He has but one; believing in His Son. As the list of 24 verses PROVE.

As long as the above conditions are met, THEY WILL have eternal life...

Again, your comprehension skills are in need of help. v.27 is NOT a condition for receiving eternal life.

Very simple. Jesus spoke to simple people and wanted them to understand what He was saying. It's not necessary to be a theologian to understand the N.T. (although it helps).

The fact that you have demonstrated over and over just how poorly you've understood these simple verses doesn't speak well of yourself.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes. He refuses to quote the scripture itself.

There is no need to quote the verse. You and the other poster do all the time, which gives me the opportunity to explain that v.27 is a description and NOT a condition for anything. Anyone with a grasp of the English language knows that.

So your claim here is just another LIE. Deceiver.

And I've given a list of 24 verses that tell us how to be saved and have eternal life, which is to believe in Jesus Christ.

Salvation and eternal life is NOT about lifestyle (following). It's about entrusting one's soul to Jesus for salvation. But you don't understand that, given your posts.

Only claiming what he wants the scripture to say

Only claiming what the Scripture actually SAYS. Unlike yourself. I'm still waiting for any verse that out and out says that salvation can be lost.

So, what is done? Quoting parables, metaphors and figures of speech instead, none of which were designed to communicate truth, but to hide the truth.

then tagging his opinion with John 10:28 knowing that it begins with the word “and”, in which it is connected to the previous verse which states the condition for receiving what verse 28 promises.

I know of your obsession with "tagging" verses. So what? Are you too lazy to move your apparently too heavy cursor over the verse and just read it for yourself?

When others cite (tag) a verse, if they make a false statement about it, I will address it directly. Unlike yourself. All you do is whine about the citing.

Very deceitful.

You are that, times 100.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Believe means trust and commit to obey.

The work that justifies and saves is obedience.


Obeying the Gospel.
JLB

Please explain specifically what "obeying the gospel" really means to you.

Your posts indicate lifestyle. What say you?

 

[Danthemailman]

My sheep hear My voice

Not some of them hear my voice and some of them don't.

and I know them

Not some of them I know and some of them I don't know.

and they follow Me

Not some of them follow me and some of them don't.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;

Not some of them I give eternal life and they shall never perish and some of them I do not give eternal life and they shall perish.

neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27

Not some of them shall never be snatched out of My hand and some of them will be snatched out of My hand.

But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:21

This is DESCRIPTIVE of His mother and His brothers and is not descriptive of unbelievers.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Nope. I've just exposed all your false doctrine. Which you don't like very much.

Your beliefs are REFUTED by Scripture.

I've already REFUTED that false teaching with a long list of verses about both salvation and eternal life. They are obtained by faith in Christ. Nothing about lifestyle.

Nothing here about having to follow to receive eternal life.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27

This is a clear description of what Jesus' sheep DO. There is nothing in this verse that makes this a condition for the next verse. And your obsession with "and" that begins v.28 is ludicrous.

You wouldn't pass an English class with that viewpoint.

But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:21

Apparently you think this verse has some relevance to the discussion.

What would that be?

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is DESCRIPTIVE of His mother and His brothers and is not descriptive of unbelievers.

It seems rather clear that JLB doesn't understand the difference between a description and a condition.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Believe means to entrust our spiritual well being to Christ. Obedience which follows is works. It's easy, yet you just demonstrated the concept of works salvation.

Our works aren’t what saves us. It is the type of faith we have that saved us. James 2:14-26 speaks of two types of faith. There’s a saving faith that produces works and a dead and useless faith that does not produce works and is not a saving faith. The type of faith we have is about our devotion to God. The Greek word that is translated to faith is pistis which means not only to believe but to have faithfulness, trustworthiness, fidelity, and loyalty. It is really important that we study the original Greek and Hebrew to get a better understanding of the message that the authors of the Bible we’re trying to convey because unfortunately the translation from Greek and Hebrew to English is not always accurate. There are some great bible apps with Strong’s concordance that will enable you to search every word in the Bible for the original Greek and Hebrew definitions I strongly recommend looking into these apps. James specifically says that a person is not saved simply by believing in verses 19-20

“What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone?

You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14, 19-20‬

Jesus gives another example in John 15:1-8 that smashes the idea of faith without works and eternal security.

““I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples. This brings great glory to my Father.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-8‬

This is more evidence that a faith that does not produce works is not a saving faith. This coincides with what the early church taught from the very beginning of Christianity. No Christian church taught eternal security or faith without works before the 16th century. Surely all of the Christian churches could not have been wrong for the first 1500+ years of Christianity.

 

[JLB777]

More works salvation confusion.

Choosing to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation is the act of obedience that justifies. Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith (not faith and works), we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace (not faith and works) in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Choosing to place our faith?

It's seems you are mixing together faith and believe as if they mean the same thing.


I see now why you are so confused about obeying the Gospel, as the action of faith.


Faith is a noun. Faith is the substance of the thing we are hoping for.

Faith is a thing.

Faith is what we receive from God when we hear Him.

Faith is dormant or dead until it is activated by our obedience to the word of faith from God.


Example:


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22

• Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac

Not good works
Not the works of the law
Not works that earn a wage


The work of obedience.


Abraham obeyed the word from God, by which he received faith, that said -

Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.” Genesis 22:2​

This is the word from God that Abraham obeyed, by which he was justified "by faith".


Abraham believed God, therefore he obeyed Him.

Faith without this action of obedience is dead, dormant, lifeless, inactive and incomplete, just as a body without a spirit is dead and lifeless, in active and incomplete; unable to function.

• Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

Perfect here means complete.

If faith does not have the corresponding action of obedience, it is incomplete; dormant, dead and unable to function and produce the intended divine result. In this case of Abraham, it was justification.


That is what "by faith" [justified by faith] means: God spoke and someone obeyed.


That's why it's called the obedience of faith.

The entire book of Romans is describing the obedience of faith, which is why it begins and ends with this principle. Paul calls this the law of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


Romans 10 says it this way -


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Does it say believe unto salvation or confession unto salvation?


This is obeying the Gospel command repent: Confessing Jesus as Lord.




JLB

 

[JLB777]

This is a clear description of what Jesus' sheep DO.

What Jesus sheep do their whole life, not just a day or week or year.


Faithful their whole life.


If they become lost, they must repent or perish.


Does one of His sheep who becomes lost need to be saved?




JLB

 

[Danthemailman]

Our works aren’t what saves us. It is the type of faith we have that saved us. James 2:14-26 speaks of two types of faith. There’s a saving faith that produces works and a dead and useless faith that does not produce works and is not a saving faith.

I agree. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[Danthemailman]

Choosing to place our faith?

Are you saying we do not make that choice?

It's seems you are mixing together faith and believe as if they mean the same thing.

The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Why do you think that "believe" and "faith" result in the same end -- salvation/eternal life? (John 3:18; Acts 16:31; Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8 etc..). Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe/have faith in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone to save you. This belief/faith results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief. Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I also was confused about this and basically defined faith "as" obedience/works, just as you appear to do as well.

I see now why you are so confused about obeying the Gospel, as the action of faith.

I'm not the one who is confused. As I already showed you from scripture in *Romans 10:16* that we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.

Faith is a noun. Faith is the substance of the thing we are hoping for.

Faith is a thing.

Faith is what we receive from God when we hear Him.

Faith is dormant or dead until it is activated by our obedience to the word of faith from God.

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). Faith is not a list of works. Faith is not dead UNTIL it produces works, which is like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit. Faith is activated and we become alive in Christ when we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:5-8). Then UNTO good works (Ephesians 2:10). You have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse.

Example:

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22

• Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac

Not good works
Not the works of the law
Not works that earn a wage

The work of obedience.

Abraham obeyed the word from God, by which he received faith, that said -

Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.” Genesis 22:2​

This is the word from God that Abraham obeyed, by which he was justified "by faith".

Abraham believed God, therefore he obeyed Him.

Faith without this action of obedience is dead, dormant, lifeless, inactive and incomplete, just as a body without a spirit is dead and lifeless, in active and incomplete; unable to function.

In James 2:21, *notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed/proved/manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). *Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous."

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? Perfect here means complete.

In James 2:22, faith made "perfect" or "complete" by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

If faith does not have the corresponding action of obedience, it is incomplete; dormant, dead and unable to function and produce the intended divine result. In this case of Abraham, it was justification.

That is what "by faith" [justified by faith] means: God spoke and someone obeyed.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. *Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

That's why it's called the obedience of faith.

The entire book of Romans is describing the obedience of faith, which is why it begins and ends with this principle. Paul calls this the law of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

Which you confuse and end up teaching salvation by faith + obedience/works. I have explained this to you before, but unfortunately it continues to fall on deaf ears. But for the sake of others:

In regards to Romans 1:5 and Romans 16:26, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. *Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.

Romans 10 says it this way -

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10 with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Does it say believe unto salvation or confession unto salvation?

This is obeying the Gospel command repent: Confessing Jesus as Lord.

In Romans 10:9-10, confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head "mental assent belief" (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead is not unto righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" NOT BY the Holy Spirit "lip service confession" is not unto salvation.

I've heard certain people misinterpret Romans 10:9,10 in such a way that means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week or next month and then we are finally saved next week or next month, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is moot (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to verbally confess with their mouth.

So it still stands that we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. *Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

 

[JLB777]

Are you saying we do not make that choice?

That is where believing comes in.


Believe in a verb: An action word.


Faith is a noun: a person place or thing.


Faith is the substance of the thing we are hoping for.

Faith is the substance of the salvation we are hoping for.


But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 1 Thessalonians 5:8


Salvation is the end result of faith for salvation.


receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9



JLB

 

[JLB777]

The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Why do you think that "believe" and "faith" result in the same end --

Again faith is what we receive from God when He speaks to us.


Believe and obey is our part the we do, that activates the faith we have when God speaks to us.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


Noah responded in obedience and built the Ark:

The righteousness of faith is about obeying.

• OSAS teaches that Noah could have believed in his heart that God would build the Ark, taking no action of obedience, but only believing, in which he would still be considered righteous even though he disobeyed God, and did not build the Ark.

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


Abraham believed God, therefore he obeyed.





JLB

 

[GodsGrace101]

John 6:28 - Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

So believing is a work?

 

[GodsGrace101]

I don't believe it is about Paul. YOU do.
Paul(A teacher/minister/pastor/evangelist)tell's us that pretty much everybody deserted him at the end of His life. If they fell away from Paul, they fell away from the truth and were burned up according to your theory/theology.

So Paul must have been saved as if through fire and suffered great loss, since most of his converts ended up burning in hell fire.......according to your theory.

First of all, don't put words I didn't say into MY mouth.

Second, if your post above weren't so funny, it would be extremely sad.

No wonder you have difficulty understanding the bible,
you don't even understand your contemporaries....imagine trying to understand something someone wrote 2,000 years ago.

"Paul was saved as if through fire"....
REALLY!!!
You need an English class really badly...forget about koine Greek! You and another poster.

 

[GodsGrace101]

It appears much better than yourself, given your frequent misunderstanding of very simple and clear verses.


Well, along with your grasp of English, maybe your communication skills need some help.


Your posts explain just how much help is needed with the English language and how to communicate.