Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[Riberra]

The seals book is a summary of the entire Book of Revelation.
Christ removes the seals one at a time, and then John is told... "Come and see." John then tells us what he saw.

Revelation 6 [The Seals]
Can you show us that the First Seal provide a summary of something that is said to happen semewhere else in the Book of Revelation ?

Can you show us that the Second Seal provide a summary of something that is said to happen semewhere else in the Book of Revelation ?

Do that until you reach the 7 Th Seal .... give it a try....prove your point|

 

[Riberra]

It means that because we are saved, we are not appointed to the wrath that is going to take place in the beginning years of the Day of the Lord, by being raptured out of the world.

Do you know that your saying: ''by being raptured out of the world' is not written anywhere in the Bible''JESUS HAVE NEVER MADE SUCH PROMISE.

THE BIBLICAL PROOF.
John 17:15 KJV.
“I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil [one].”

You have been deceived by the same people who claimed that the Creation of Israel in 1948 will see the prophecies concerning the End times being fullilled in the 40 years determined by a Biblical Generation ....when 1988 have passed the 40 years was stretched to a biblical generation of 70 years.We are now in 2018 ....the time is come to strech again ...

YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED AND HAPPY WITH THAT. ....THE FEELING PROVIDED BY THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOCTRINE IS SO APPEALING ....You feel so good by hearing it ...ITS LIKE A DRUG !

 

[BABerean2]

Revelation 6 [The Seals]
Can you show us that the First Seal provide a summary of something that is said to happen semewhere else in the Book of Revelation ?

Can you show us that the Second Seal provide a summary of something that is said to happen semewhere else in the Book of Revelation ?

Do that until you reach the 7 Th Seal .... give it a try....prove your point|

Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Who is the conqueror in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Who takes peace from the earth in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Who brings famine, and controls the food supply on the earth in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Who kills millions in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled

Do we find believers being persecuted and killed for their witness in the Book of Revelation ? (Revelation 12:11, etc.)
.
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

We find the sun being darkened, and the moon changing its brightness, and the stars falling from heaven to the earth, and those in fear, in the Olivet Discourse, at the Second Coming of Christ.
Matthew 24:29-31
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[Riberra]

Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Who is the conqueror in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Who takes peace from the earth in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Who brings famine, and controls the food supply on the earth in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Who kills millions in the Book of Revelation?

Tell us ? Who is that individual or entity ?.....So no Wars ...No Famines ....Nobody killed in the World until that individual or entity arrive ?

 

[Douggg]

Do you know that your saying: ''by being raptured out of the world' is not written anywhere in the Bible''JESUS HAVE NEVER MADE SUCH PROMISE.

THE BIBLICAL PROOF.
John 17:15 KJV.
“I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil [one].”

You have been deceived by the same people who claimed that the Creation of Israel in 1948 will see the prophecies concerning the End times being fullilled in the 40 years determined by a Biblical Generation ....when 1988 have passed the 40 years was stretched to a biblical generation of 70 years.We are now in 2018 ....the time is come again to to strech ...

YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED AND HAPPY WITH THAT. ....THE FEELING PROVIDED BY THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOCTRINE IS SO APPEALING ....You feel so good by hearing it ...ITS LIKE A DRUG !

I don't have to see a boarding pass. Again, I am not pre-trib, because I don't restrict in my thinking that the rapture has to happen pretrib. But it can. It may also not happen until after the 70th week begins.

The promise is to escape from the beginning years of the Day of the Lord, in Luke 24:34-36, 1Thessalonians5:9-11.

What the bible says concerning the resurrection/rapture - in the text - is comfort one another with these
words.

 

[Riberra]

I don't have to see a boarding pass. Again, I am not pre-trib, because I don't restrict in my thinking that the rapture has to happen pretrib. But it can. It may also not happen until after the 70th week begins.

The promise is to escape from the beginning years of the Day of the Lord, in Luke 24:34-36, 1Thessalonians5:9-11.

What the bible says concerning the resurrection/rapture - in the text - is comfort one another with these
words.

Go for it ...

A day will come when you will be on your death bed [that will happen to all of us]- still with the desire to be raptured to Heaven- ..and you will understand that only Your SOUL will ascend to Heaven at your death ..waiting to be resurrected at the Great White Throne Jugdment.

 

[keras]

Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Who is the conqueror in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Who takes peace from the earth in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Who brings famine, and controls the food supply on the earth in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Who kills millions in the Book of Revelation?

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled

Do we find believers being persecuted and killed for their witness in the Book of Revelation ? (Revelation 12:11, etc.) .

Never opened a history book have you, BaB?
Do you deny the fact that there has been practically continuous wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters, plus the persecution and martyrdom of believers, since the first century?
In fact if any of those death inducing Seals had been much worse, mankind would not have survived at all.
Your premise of those Seal disasters only happening during the last days, is patently wrong and also the 7 Trumpet and 7 Bowl punishments are all directed specifically toward those who have given their allegiance to the 'beast', namely Satan.

 

[BABerean2]

Tell us ? Who is that individual or entity ?.....So no Wars ...No Famines ....Nobody killed in the World until that individual or entity arrive ?

It will have to be whoever is required to make your premill doctrine work.

Why don't you tell us?

.

 

[BABerean2]

Never opened a history book have you, BaB?
Do you deny the fact that there has been practically continuous wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters, plus the persecution and martyrdom of believers, since the first century?
In fact if any of those death inducing Seals had been much worse, mankind would not have survived at all.
Your premise of those Seal disasters only happening during the last days, is patently wrong and also the 7 Trumpet and 7 Bowl punishments are all directed specifically toward those who have given their allegiance to the 'beast', namely Satan.

Sorry, if I forgot to mention the Coronal Mass Ejection...

.

 

[Riberra]

It will have to be whoever is required to make your premill doctrine work.

Why don't you tell us?

.

I think that you now realize that you have made a fool of yourself with relating the FIRST FIVE SEALS TO SOMETHING THAT WILL HAPPEN ONLY DURING THE 42 Months reign of the Beast in your post -1503-.

The opening of Seal 1 through Seal 5 correspond to the Wars ....Famines ...Martyrdrom of Christians and the Gospel Preached upon [CONQUERING] all the earth that Jesus describe in
Matthew 24:6-14
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for [these things] must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places.

8 But all these things are the beginning of travail.

9 Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.

12 And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold.

13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[BABerean2]

I think that you now realize that you have made a fool of yourself with relating the the FIRST FIVE SEALS TO SOMETHING THAT WILL HAPPEN ONLY DIRING THE 42 Months reign of the Beast.

The opening of Seal 1 through Seal 5 correspond to the Wars ....Famines ...Martydrom of Christians and the Gospel Preached upon all the earth that Jesus describe in
Matthew 24:6-14
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for [these things] must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places.

8 But all these things are the beginning of travail.

9 Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.

12 And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold.

13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.

You probably think that when sun turns black, and the moon changes its brightness, and the stars fall to the earth, it is just an everyday occurrence?

How many times has it happened in the past?

There is supposed to be a blood moon somewhere tonight.
If the sun also turns black, and the stars also fall from the sky, please let me know.

.

 

[Riberra]

You probably think that when sun turns black, and the moon changes its brightness, and the stars fall to the earth, it is just an everyday occurrence?

How many times has it happened in the past?

There is supposed to be a blood moon somewhere tonight.
If the sun also turns black, and the stars also fall from the sky, please let me know.

I SAID -POST 1510- THAT THE FIRST FIVE SEALS CORRESPOND TO WHAT JESUS SAID IN Matthew 24:6-14.....OBVIOUSLY THE 6 TH SEAL HAVE NOT BEEN OPENED YET ....DO YOU KNOW THAT THE BOOK OF REVELATION TELL US THAT A 7TH SEAL WILL BE OPENED AFTER THE EVENTS OF THE 6TH SEAL ?CHECK YOUR BIBLE REVELATION 8 IS ABOUT THE OPENING OF THE 7 TH SEAL.

 

[keras]

Sorry, if I forgot to mention the Coronal Mass Ejection...

Having your beliefs proved in error, you now resort to a mocking style of post that just further damages your reputation.
Why is it so hard to admit error? Others have changed their views, when scriptural proofs are presented. I have changed my beliefs about God's plans for the end times, to all in accordance with what is Written.

Re; the forthcoming Day of the Lord's wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. When the 100 + prophesies about that terrible Day are read and understood as a single, literal event, then it should be known that the ONLY thing that will fulfil the cosmic and over all the earth effects; is a massive CME. Exactly what Isaiah 30:26a tells us He will use.

 

[keras]

There is supposed to be a blood moon somewhere tonight.

Calling an eclipse of the moon, a 'blood moon', is just media hype. At the best, it glows a brownish orange.
The real moon as red as blood, will happen on the Lord's Day of wrath and we will surely know about it!

 

[Riberra]

Having your beliefs proved in error, you now resort to a mocking style of post that just further damages your reputation.

Agree !

 

[BABerean2]

Calling an eclipse of the moon, a 'blood moon', is just media hype. At the best, it glows a brownish orange.

Actually astronomers and others who observe the sky have been using the term "blood moon" for at least hundreds of years.
The term was most probably also used during ancient times.

Once again you are trying to make your theory work.

See the link below for references to observations from ancient people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_eclipse


.

 

[Riberra]

test

 

[Riberra]

there are many exact days on the 7 years timeline that we can determine because we have enough information given.

For example, starting with, day 1 is the day the Antichrist confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant by making a big speech from the temple mount that God gave the children of Israel the land of Israel as theirs forever.

We begin to hear about the Beast/AC taking control over the World only in Revelation 13 ...So the Rider on the White Horse conquering with a bow but no arrows mentioned in Revelation 6:1-2 at the Opening of the First Seal cannot be the Beast/AC of Revelation 13.

Revelation 6:1-2
1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, Come.

2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer.


The Rider on the White Horse represent Jesus and the Gospel being preached upon[CONQUERING] The Whole Earth ...In the End Jesus Return on a White Horse to punish all those who will have taken the mark and worshiped the Beast and his image who will be gathered for the Battle of Armageddon along with the Kings and the armies of the World.
Revelation 19:11-21
11 And I saw the heaven opened; and behold,A WHITE HORSE , And He That Sat Thereon called Faithful and True; and in righteous he doth judge and make war.

12 And his eyes [are] a flame of fire, and upon his head [are] many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself.

13 And he [is] arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 

[Douggg]

Never opened a history book have you, BaB?
Do you deny the fact that there has been practically continuous wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters, plus the persecution and martyrdom of believers, since the first century?
In fact if any of those death inducing Seals had been much worse, mankind would not have survived at all.
Your premise of those Seal disasters only happening during the last days, is patently wrong and also the 7 Trumpet and 7 Bowl punishments are all directed specifically toward those who have given their allegiance to the 'beast', namely Satan.

The first six seals - the arrival of the antichrist to the return of Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

We begin to hear about the Beast/AC taking control over the World only in Revelation 13 ...So the Rider on the White Horse conquering with a bow but no arrows mentioned in Revelation 6:1-2 at the Opening of the First Seal cannot be the Beast/AC of Revelation 13.

The person is not (no longer) the Antichrist in Revelation 13. He has become the beast in Revelation 13, no longer the Antichrist.

The person is the Antichrist in first seal, the rider on the white horse given a crown - made the (illegitimate) King of Israel.

I am going to go over this again about the person...

The (illegitimate) King of Israel - the Antichrist
The King of the Roman Empire - the little horn (#7), the beast (#8)


little horn > then prince who shall come> then the Antichrist> then the revealed man of sin > then the beast. In Revelation 13, he is the beast, 8th king of the Roman Empire of the Julio-Claudian bloodline.

The Rider on the White Horse represent Jesus

No, it is not Jesus. It is a messiah figure, yes. But the wrong person, the Jews will think is the messiah. Jesus is not kicking off a bunch of trouble times. It will the Antichrist who starts all the troubled times.

Riberra, the 7 years are in Ezekiel 39. The prophecies in 39:1-16 are about the destruction of Gog/Magog. Then the 7 years. Then the prophecies in 39:17-29 are at the end of the 7 years and Jesus's return.