Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, you are misrepresenting what I wrote. You didn't read it carefully enough. Note the highlighted text, which is the opposite of what I actually wrote.

Well, I am not misrepresenting anything that you wrote. The bolded portion of the text (you pointed out) is my text, and it is not your text. I know you don't believe salvation = Grace + works (Note: This would be the works of the Lord done through the believer). I am saying that is what I believe and then I supplied Scripture to support that fact.

Please feel free to address any of the verses I brought up within the following spoiler button.

Spoiler

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:

(Here are a List of Verses):


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

Please read what I wrote carefully, and the verse I quoted (1 Jn. 3:9).As far as I am concerned, your splitting hairs over the term "commit" is a diversion from the truth I am trying to convey here.

Again, how many times do you need to murder before you are considered a murderer?
It only takes one act of murder to be a murderer.
1 John 3:15 says he that hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Can you qualify for 1 John 3:15 with one act of hatred towards your brother? I would say.... "yes." But you don't want to see that because you want to look to some language that you really don't know to prove your belief. In the Garden, Adam and Eve did not need to repeatedly eat from the wrong tree in order to violate God's command. They only needed to violate that command one time in order to be under spiritual death.

In fact, the lie from the devil back in the Garden (that everyone is buying into today) is that you will not die if you sin or break God's command. See Genesis 3.

Scripture says God is not a respecter of persons.

You said "modern translation corruption." So are you a KJV-onlyist?

More like a.... "One Word of God that is perfect and preserved through out time - Onlyist"

The Holy Scriptures were preserved perfectly and without error in the following languages:

1. Hebrew (OT only).
2. Greek (In time, a complete Bible).
3. Latin (Not the corrupt Catholic Latin Vulgate).
4. English (World language)

The King James has been preserved in several languages so far.

Textus Receptus in Spanish (RVG 2010):
https://www.amazon.com/Santa-Biblia-Rústica-Valera-Spanish/dp/0758907567/
King James Francais in French:
http://www.kingjamesfrancaise.net
Koning Jacobus Vertaling in Dutch:
http://www.koningjacobusvertaling.org/info_english.php
Bibelen Guds Ord in Norwegian:
http://www.hermon.no/netbibelen/
Thai King James Bible Version:
https://newchristianbiblestudy.org/bible/thai-kjv/
Korean King James Version:
https://www.amazon.com/Korean-English-Bible-Leather-Golden/dp/B005DPPENA/

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you think that Westcott and Hort were devils, and that the early text theory is ungodly?

I believe Westcott and Hort were human beings and not demons (or devils). However, they were involved in the occult and they held to heretical beliefs (Which can be seen in their text ever so subtly and by the statements that they have made). Can a person be saved by reading a Modern Translation? Yes, a person can still get the gospel message from Modern Translations. In fact, I even use Modern Translations to help update the 1600's English in the KJV. But I am aware there are corruptions in Modern Translations. I look at Modern Translations as if I am kind of like I am panning for gold. I have to sift through the dirt to get to the gold (in the KJV). For the KJV is my final word of authority. For we are going to be held accountable to God's Word and not many different versions of God's Word or our interpretation of God's Word.

To see more about what I had written in regards to the KJV vs. Modern Translations, here a few points that I hope you will consider.

A. Believers Need a Message From God That is 100% Nailed Down in a Language They Are Familiar With.

Well, I cannot stress this point enough. If believers do not hold in their hands the very words of God perfectly, then who gets to decide which words are corrupt and which words are true? Do we decide what is and what is not God's Word? Now, you might say that the changes are so minor that it does not affect major doctrine and truths. But I disagree. I see a subtle message being pushed in the Modern Translations and it is seeking to eliminate the Trinity, key important points made in Scripture for our instruction in righteousness, and a watering down of many important things in God's Word like the blood of Christ, holiness and the deity of Jesus Christ. Then there is the devil's name placed within Modern Translations where they should not be, as well. This should be no surprise that there is a subtle change to God's Word because the devil seeks to attack God's Word. Sometimes his tactics are so subtle that nobody notices. The problem we see today, is that we keep getting more new Bibles that seek to be better and better (As if we do not have the truth of God's Word or something).

B. KJV Has Proven Itself Time and Time Again in That it is Divine in Origin.

Three biblical points prove the KJV is the divinely inspired Word of God for our day.

#1. God's Word claims that it is perfect
God's Word claims that it is perfect (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140) (Proverbs 30:5) and that it will be preserved for all generations (Psalms 12:7) and it will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:25). So if we believe these verses by faith, then we have to conclude that there is a perfect Word for our generation today. The KJV just so happens to fit here (if you were to trust it and to study it). In fact, what we are talking about here is a matter of faith. It is a test of faith in God's Word (See the test the devil gave to Eve in Genesis 3:1); For the Bereans were more noble because they compared the spoken Word of God with the written Word of God (Acts of the Apostles 17:11). In other words, if the Bereans thought the written Word was corrupt in some way they would have no way of really knowing if the spoken Word of God was true or not.

#2. KJV vs. Modern Translations
A simple side by side comparison of the KJV vs Modern Translations shows us that the devil tries to place his name in the Modern Versions. Have no idea what I am talking about?

Well, many Bible versions say that it is the dragon who is standing on the sea shore in Revelation. This is just evil and wrong.

See Parallel Version for Revelation 13:1 here...

Revelation 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

See, if you know anything about Bible language, standing on something means that you "own it"; And the devil wants to own you. In the King James, John is standing on the seashore. Yet in many Bible versions the dragon (i.e. the devil) is standing on the seashore.

Why is this a problem?

Let's look at...

Genesis 22:17

"That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"

Did you catch that? God says to Abraham that He will multiply his seed as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is upon the seashore where he will then possess the gate of his enemies (i.e. the devil and his kingdom). The apostle John who wrote Revelation was Jewish and he was the promised seed of Genesis 22 standing on the seashore in Revelation 13. It was not the dragon or the devil standing on the seashore.

For certain Modern Versions eliminate the part of the passage in Revelation 13:1 that says that John is standing on the seashore (When he refers to himself as "I"). To see more examples of the devil placing his name in Scripture where it should not be, click on the following spoiler button.

Spoiler

In fact, this is not the only time the devil has tried to place his name in the Bible in exchange for something that is supposed to be sacred or holy. We see the devil tries to place his name in Modern Translations in Daniel 3.

In Daniel 3, the Babylonian king says there is one like the "Son of God" in the fiery furnace along with Daniel's three friends. This is Jesus! Yet, in the Modern Translations it says the "son of the gods." In many false religions we can see how certain gods had mated with human females and created a hybrid. This is popular even in Greek mythology. So who saved Daniel's friends? Jesus or some hybrid like Hercules?

Nebuchadnezzar thought this was an angel of God (singular and not plural).

"Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God." (Daniel 3:28).

This was not the "son of the gods (plural) (little "g")!!!
No way Hosea! I mean, "No way José!"
Nebuchadnezzar clearly was referencing the most high God.
The Bible says (even something similar in your Modern Version),

"Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire." (Daniel 3:26).

Angels are called the: "sons of God" in Job.

The fourth person in the fire was still Jesus! The son of God. The Scriptures were still correct in their inspiration by God when they say, "and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." While Nebuchadnezzar did not know it was the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity, the Lord our God who inspired Scripture surely would have glorified the name of the Son of God (Jesus) in this instance. For it was Jesus who was in the fire with Daniel's three friends!

Also, please check out this thread here, as well. It will help to explain this situation a little better, too.

Jesus is the Messenger of the Lord in the Old Testament.
(Please take note: I do not believe Jesus is an angelic being; I believe Jesus is the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity and that He is fully 100% God who took on the flesh of man).

In Isaiah 14:12, the devil's name "Lucifer" is replaced with "Day Star" or the "Morning Star."
Yes, I am aware that "morning stars" are angels in the book of Job.

But Modern Translations also say this is the Shining Star or the Son of the Dawn. Why?

Jesus says,
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelation 22:16).

So Jesus is the BRIGHT and MORNING star!

Yet, the individual in Isaiah 14:12 in Modern Translations is called the shining (bright) and morning star or the Day Star, etc.

So the devil is trying to be like the most high here. He is taking a similar sounding title of Jesus in Isaiah 14:12.

For where is the bright and morning star up in the sky?
It is the sun.
That is why He is called the bright and morning star because the sun is bright and rises in the morning.

Also, Lucifer means "light bearer."
Scripture tells us this is what it means.

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14).

The word "angel" also means "messenger." So 2 Corinthians 11:14 is saying that Satan is a light messenger or light bearer. In fact, when Satan is described with having all kinds of jewelry on him, it was symbolic of who he was. Certain gemstones refract light. They are not light themselves, but they merely reflect whatever light is in existence. Gemstones are like little light bearers. So how fitting the name "Lucifer" is for the devil. Yet, Modern Translations seek to give the devil a name that is similar to Jesus. This is wrong (of course).

Also, the devil tries to take out key points in important discussions within the Bible (Which can affect doctrine). For example: In Romans 7 Paul talks from the Jew's perspective in keeping the Old Testament Law (Which leads to problems), and he gives us the climax or heart of his message as a solution in Romans 8:1. Now, certain modern translations have eliminated "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Eliminating this passage destroys the whole thrust of Paul's argument. Walking in the Spirit is the key to being in Christ Jesus. You eliminate that and you destroy Paul's argument. Also, 1 John 5:7 is the only verse in the Bible that is the clearest and most concise teaching on the Godhead (i.e. the Trinity). But you wil no doubt say that key doctrines and truths are not changed. But you forget, the devil seeks to change God's Word in a subtle way. The enemy is crafty. For we see the devil seek to slightly change God's Word in the Garden with Eve, and with Jesus when he was in the wilderness (the desert).

#3. Biblical Numerics
Revelation 13:8 gives us an example that we can count numbers as a part of wisdom (Also see Ecclesiastes 7, which is the 666th chapter of the Bible). Bible Numbers that glorify God and His Word. (Note: These are not equidistant letter sequences or numbers that attempt to get one to have a special dream, or to divine the future in some way - Striving to foretell the future is forbidden in the Bible). Numbers are something that we deal with in our everyday life and all things glorify God. So obviously the numbers in God's Word would naturally glorify Him in some way. What am I talking about? Check out this video on Numbers & the Greek New Testament.

Sevens in the Bible - Chuck Missler:

Also, here is a video series by Mike Hoggard that talks about the number 7 in the King James.

King James Code - Number 7 - Mike Hoggard (Part 1):

King James Code - Number 7 - Mike Hoggard (Part 2):

Note: Please take note that I do not believe everything Chuck and Mike believe. I merely agree with what they are saying about numbers in God's Word and how that shows that His Word is divine in origin. The numbers are not meant to help us to prophecy the future or anything silly like that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Christian life is a WAY (journey toward God), not perfectionism.

Again, please check out my long list of verses at this thread here.
If you are going to reply on this topic, please do so at that thread and address specific verses.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As far as your "grace + works" theory of salvation,

It's not a theory. It is Scriptural fact.

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:

(Here are a List of Verses):


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

how do you think Gal. 5:4 doesn't apply to that in principle? The context of circumcision and Jewish customs does not limit the principle of falling from grace to those specific actions. It can apply to anything, including baptism, communion, and works orientation. If you are seeking to be justified (accepted by God) by works (or by grace + works), you are fallen from grace.

Again, Galatians 5:2 condemns circumcision and yet in that same chapter, Paul says if you essentially break the Moral Law (like: Murder, theft, coveting, etc.) you will not inherit the Kingdom of God (See Galatians 5:19-21).

Heb. 9:14 shows us that faith in Christ's sacrifice alone cleanses our conscience, so that we can serve God through love, which is the requirement of the law. This is cleaning the inside of the cup so that the outside becomes clean.

Hebrews 9:14 is in reference to past evil works and not future evil works. Hebrews 10:26 says if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.

When you read Matthew 23:25 about cleaning the inside of the cup, you have to read the context in verse 23 above it that says,

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23:23).

So the problem with the Pharisees is that they ignored the weightier matters of the Law like: judgment, mercy, faith, and love (See Luke 11:42).

 

[FreeGrace2]

It's not a theory. It is Scriptural fact.

Oh, really? Where does the Bible say that?

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:

(Here are a List of Verses):

Let's begin with the verse you nearly quoted but ended so poorly; Eph2:8-10

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Now the analysis:
v.8 tells us how we are saved; by grace through faith. The second red phrase begins with "this" and refers back to "have been saved", or our salvation.

v.9 clearly states we are NOT saved by works. "nuff said

v.10 tells us what God prepared the saved person to do: good works.

But, there is NOTHING in any of these 3 verses that mentions works as a requirement for salvation.

In fact, we read of 2 phrases that clearly EXCLUDE works from our salvation: "not from yourselves" and "not of works".

v.10 tells us what we SHOULD DO. Not "required to do" as you assume.

(James 2:24).
(James 2:17-18).
(Titus 1:16).
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
(James 4:6).
(Romans 6:1-2).
(Hebrews 5:9).
(Hebrews 12:14).
(2 Thessalonians 2:13).
(Romans 8:13).
(1 Corinthians 16:22).
(John 14:15).
(John 15:10).
(Matthew 10:38).
(Matthew 16:24-26).
(Luke 9:62).
(Matthew 5:8).
(James 1:21).
(Romans 2:8-11).
(Revelation 22:12-15).
(John 3:20).
(Romans 11:21-22).
(Matthew 19:17).
(Philippians 2:12).
(Romans 6:22).
(Matthew 25:34-40).
(Matthew 25:41-46).
(Matthew 25:21).
(Matthew 25:30).
(Hebrews 3:12-15)
(Hebrews 3:10-11).
(Hebrews 4:11).
(1 John 3:10).
(John 8:47).

What is clear is that NONE of these verses say anything close to salvation that requires works of any kind.

Some of them refer to eternal rewards on the basis of one's works.

 

[Dan the deacon]

The time and place. To defy the king was a death sentence. The king gets what the king wants...no questions asked.


My point was that it was a particular loathsome, underhanded,planned, sneaky and cowardly kind of murder. Not that it wasn't murder.




Actually, it turns the self-righteous prigs works into used menstrual rags. And It makes their blood boil.

Really? From no evidence at all you convict David of rape. Could it be she was bathing on the roof because she knew David could see her? Could it be that she desired David and seducing him was her plan? Our Bible does not tell us bit seems to be suggesting the latter.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Really? From no evidence at all you convict David of rape. Could it be she was bathing on the roof because she knew David could see her? Could it be that she desired David and seducing him was her plan? Our Bible does not tell us bit seems to be suggesting the latter.

From no evidence at all, really, from no evidence at all you accuse her.

Our bible tells us that kings in those times were not denied anything they wanted. And it was a death sentence to deny them what they wanted.

Look close. David was supposed to be on the battle field at that time, but he was sleeping in until late afternoon.
Bathsheba was probably out bathing because the darn king was supposed to be GONE on his duties.

David,at this time, is a perfect example for all of us that we need to stay in Gods will. If we don't, we can fall into such extreme reversionism we can act WORSE than an unbeliever.

 

[JLB777]

I've addressed this twice already. Don't you read my posts?

How about doing so and THEN discussing my point with me.

I don't need for you to "discuss" anything.


Just answer the question, if you can.


So everybody here can know where you stand.


Freegrace, based on the teaching of ES, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?


Yes?

or

No?

 

[JLB777]

As I said, incorrigible. Believers have already chosen life. And will never, no not ever forever perish. John 10:28.

Taking the mark of the beast is presented to unbelievers in the tribulation. All believers have already been taken home to be with the Lord.

So the mark of the beast is presented to an unbelieving world. It's their last shot.

New American Standard Bible
"See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity;

SO, I don't believe your hypothetical situation. I don't believe believers could take the mark of the beast. God protects His children and said they will NEVER perish.

Based on the teaching of ES, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?


Yes?

or

No?




JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

From no evidence at all, really, from no evidence at all you accuse her.

Our bible tells us that kings in those times were not denied anything they wanted. And it was a death sentence to deny them what they wanted.

Look close. David was supposed to be on the battle field at that time, but he was sleeping in until late afternoon.
Bathsheba was probably out bathing because the darn king was supposed to be GONE on his duties.

David,at this time, is a perfect example for all of us that we need to stay in Gods will. If we don't, we can fall into such extreme reversionism we can act WORSE than an unbeliever.

Very well said!! Great explanation of WHY David did commit rape.

It was anything other than "an affair", as so many people assume.

If David had been doing his kingly duties per 2 Sam 11:1 - 1 In the spring, at the time when kings go off to war, David sent Joab out with the king’s men and the whole Israelite army. They destroyed the Ammonites and besieged Rabbah. But David remained in Jerusalem.

So, here's the context. David wasn't where he was supposed to be.

Here's the next verse: "2 One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful,"

Is Dan the deacon getting the picture yet? The only reason a person would "get up from his bed one evening" is because he slept in the whole day.

From these 2 verses, it is obvious that the common folk wouldn't necessarily be aware of whre the king was. Also keep in mind that the king's residence would be HIGHER than the rest of the residences. So WHY would Bathsheba think she would be seen by the king? There is NO REASON. Just a bunch of assumption.

What she did was done in PRIVACY, except David WASN'T where he was supposed to be.

And she sure wasn't flirting with him.

Next verse:
"3 and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, “She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite.”"

Clear enough? It was David who initiated the whole thing. Not Bathsheba.

If she had incited him, the Bible would have said so.

How about the next verse:
"4 Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (Now she was purifying herself from her monthly uncleanness.) Then she went back home."

Is Dan the deacon getting the picture yet? David "got her" by sending messengers to GET HER. There was no choice on her part. None whatsoever. What the king wants, he gets. That's EXACTLY how it worked back then. No questions asked.

I guess Dan the deacon is extremely naive about how things worked back then.

But...not only all this, but we find that David VIOLATED the Mosaic Law by raping her while she was on her period!!

Lev 15:19 - ‘When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.

Then, v.24 - ‘If a man has sexual relations with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.

So David made himself "unclean" by her actions.

And he did NOTHING about it, contrary to the Mosaic Law.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don't need for you to "discuss" anything.

Well, it's quite clear that you are totally unopen to any discussion about the truth taught in Scripture.

Just answer the question, if you can.

So everybody here can know where you stand.

Freegrace, based on the teaching of ES, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?

Yes?
or
No?

Why are you so dense? I've answered 3 times. And you keep asking? What's wrong with you?

I gave you a very reasonable answer and you just ignore it and ask again.

That is irrational and unreasonable.

Do those reading this thread a favor. Address my answer and try to refute how my answer given 3 times is not reasonable or rational.

You haven't yet, and I have no expectation that you ever will.

But that just demonstrates to all who follow this thread the failure of your own view.

You can't defend your own views from Scripture and you can't refute the opposing views of others from Scripture.

All you can do is cling to your metaphors and figures of speech, which were DESIGNED to obfuscate the truth anyway.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Free Grace:

The reason why he is repeating the question is because you are not giving a "Yes" or "No" answer to his question. You are avoiding in sayng "yes" or "no." So you did not really answer his question in the way it was given. You say it does not apply, but lets say hypothetically there is a Christian living during the time of the Mark of the Beast (even though you believe that is not possible), what if they did accept the mark of the beast and they believe in Jesus alone for their salvation. Are they still saved? Is that a "yes" or a "no"?
All you have to do is say "yes" or "no."

I mean, you already admitted to me before with a "Yes" that a believer can commit other grievous sins like murder, rape, theft, etc. and still be saved while doing so. For you believe David was saved even while he committed his sins of adultery and murder. But what if it was Hitler? Could a Hitler be saved as he carried out mass genocide? Could Hitler be saved (hypothetically speaking) if he believe in Jesus as his Savior and yet he still murdered Jews? How far are you going to take God's grace minus works and holiness? Do you really think God is unjust to allow such a thing? Why would he save a person who does evil? If that is the case, then why doesn't God just save everyone who does evil? Does a belief alone really make a person a more better and moral and good person? Surely not.

 

[JLB777]

Well, it's quite clear that you are totally unopen to any discussion about the truth taught in Scripture.


Why are you so dense? I've answered 3 times. And you keep asking? What's wrong with you?

I gave you a very reasonable answer and you just ignore it and ask again.

That is irrational and unreasonable.

Do those reading this thread a favor. Address my answer and try to refute how my answer given 3 times is not reasonable or rational.

You haven't yet, and I have no expectation that you ever will.

But that just demonstrates to all who follow this thread the failure of your own view.

You can't defend your own views from Scripture and you can't refute the opposing views of others from Scripture.

All you can do is cling to your metaphors and figures of speech, which were DESIGNED to obfuscate the truth anyway.

Go ahead and copy and paste the post where you answered my question with a yes or no answer.


Until then my question stands.

So everybody here can know where you stand.

Freegrace, based on the teaching of ES, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?

Yes?
or
No?


BY not answering it with a yes or a no, you prove that you yourself don't even believe your own doctrine.




JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Free Grace:

The reason why he is repeating the question is because you are not giving a "Yes" or "No" answer to his question. You are avoiding in sayng "yes" or "no."

How 'bout that!

Do you know WHY his question was BOGUS and doesn't even have a yes or no answer? Well, read my answer and you'll understand why.

So you did not really answer his question in the way it was given.

Of course not. It was a bogus question.

Kinda like this:

Yes or no; have you stopped beating your wife yet?

So, how would YOU answer that question?

Is that a fair question or not? I'll help out here. It's NOT a fair question. It ASSUMES that you have been beating your wife, obviously.

No different for his bogus question. The basic assumption is totally bogus.

You say it does not apply, but lets say hypothetically there is a Christian living during the time of the Mark of the Beast (even though you believe that is not possible), what if they did accept the mark of the beast and they believe in Jesus alone for their salvation. Are they still saved? Is that a "yes" or a "no"?
All you have to do is say "yes" or "no."

Bogus question. And I don't deal in "hypothetics". Or "what if's...". I deal with "what is". Or reality.

Unlike JLB's nonreality questions.

But please feel free to answer my question about whether you've stopped beating your wife yet.

I mean, you already admitted to me before with a "Yes" that a believer can commit other grievous sins like murder, rape, theft, etc. and still be saved while doing so.

And the reason is clear: Christ died for ALL sins. And Jesus said those He GIVES eternal life shall never perish.

So there are NO sins that can keep any believer (one who has received eternal life from Jesus) out of heaven. Period.

For you believe David was saved even while he committed his sins of adultery and murder. But what if it was Hitler?

God is not a respecter of persons. What difference would it make? But the basic assumption has to be that Hitler had believed in Christ and therefore given eternal life. And no one on this thread knows that. So I'm not going to speculate just to satisfy anyone else's warped curiosity.

Could a Hitler be saved as he carried out mass genocide? Could Hitler be saved (hypothetically speaking) if he believe in Jesus as his Savior and yet he still murdered Jews?

Warped curiosity again. I don't speculate.

How far are you going to take God's grace minus works and holiness?

No farther than what the Bible teaches. Why do you want to take things MUCH FARTHER than what the Bible allows?

Do you really think God is unjust to allow such a thing?

Don't you understand JUSTification? How can you even mention "unjust" when speaking of God's actions toward mankind?

The REASON God deals with mankind on the basis of GRACE is because His Son DIED for the sins of everyone, which SATISFIED (propitiated) God's justice.

Why would he save a person who does evil?

Why not, IF that person believed in Christ and therefore received the free gift (by grace) of eternal life?

If that is the case, then why doesn't God just save everyone who does evil?

Are you kidding? Everyone He saves IS evil. What did you think? That He saved you because you weren't evil? Really?

Does a belief alone really make a person a more better and moral and good person? Surely not.

Correct. It doesn't make anyone "more better and moral and good".

Here's what it DOES DO: belief alone results in having the perfect righteousness of Christ imputed to the believer. That's WHY the believer is JUSTified.

It seems rather obvious that you don't understand justification, sanctification or glorification. Sad.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Go ahead and copy and paste the post where you answered my question with a yes or no answer.

Nonsense. I answered 3 times, so apparently you never bothered reading any of them. So why would anyone think you actually will now?

What has changed? Nothing.

Until then my question stands.

Got news for you. The question was bogus to the max and has already fallen FLAT on its face.

Here's a question for you:

Yes or no: have you stopped beating your wife yet?

So everybody here can know where you stand.

Yeah, go ahead and answer my question so everyone will know where you stand on whether you have stopped beating your wife yet.

Freegrace, based on the teaching of ES, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?

Yes?
or
No?

Yes or no: have you stopped beating your wife yet?

BY not answering it with a yes or a no, you prove that you yourself don't even believe your own doctrine.

Sure. Now, answer my question about whether you've stopped beating your wife yet.

If you ask a legitimate question, I am always happy to answer. But I don't answer stupid bogus questions that are driven by phony assumptions, as my question to you reveal.

So, every time you ask such a stupid and bogus question, I will ask you whether you have stopped beating your wife yet.

Stupid questions beget stupid questions.

However, my response to your stupid and bogus question was both reasonable and rational.

Unlike your unreasonable and irrational question. Like my question to you about your poor wife.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How 'bout that!

Do you know WHY his question was BOGUS and doesn't even have a yes or no answer? Well, read my answer and you'll understand why.


Of course not. It was a bogus question.

Kinda like this:

Yes or no; have you stopped beating your wife yet?

So, how would YOU answer that question?

Is that a fair question or not? I'll help out here. It's NOT a fair question. It ASSUMES that you have been beating your wife, obviously.

No different for his bogus question. The basic assumption is totally bogus.


Bogus question. And I don't deal in "hypothetics". Or "what if's...". I deal with "what is". Or reality.

Unlike JLB's nonreality questions.

But please feel free to answer my question about whether you've stopped beating your wife yet.


And the reason is clear: Christ died for ALL sins. And Jesus said those He GIVES eternal life shall never perish.

So there are NO sins that can keep any believer (one who has received eternal life from Jesus) out of heaven. Period.


God is not a respecter of persons. What difference would it make? But the basic assumption has to be that Hitler had believed in Christ and therefore given eternal life. And no one on this thread knows that. So I'm not going to speculate just to satisfy anyone else's warped curiosity.


Warped curiosity again. I don't speculate.


No farther than what the Bible teaches. Why do you want to take things MUCH FARTHER than what the Bible allows?


Don't you understand JUSTification? How can you even mention "unjust" when speaking of God's actions toward mankind?

The REASON God deals with mankind on the basis of GRACE is because His Son DIED for the sins of everyone, which SATISFIED (propitiated) God's justice.


Why not, IF that person believed in Christ and therefore received the free gift (by grace) of eternal life?


Are you kidding? Everyone He saves IS evil. What did you think? That He saved you because you weren't evil? Really?


Correct. It doesn't make anyone "more better and moral and good".

Here's what it DOES DO: belief alone results in having the perfect righteousness of Christ imputed to the believer. That's WHY the believer is JUSTified.

It seems rather obvious that you don't understand justification, sanctification or glorification. Sad.

I will let the Lord judge you and your belief.

 

[JLB777]

As I said, incorrigible. Believers have already chosen life. And will never, no not ever forever perish. John 10:28.

Taking the mark of the beast is presented to unbelievers in the tribulation. All believers have already been taken home to be with the Lord.

So the mark of the beast is presented to an unbelieving world. It's their last shot.

New American Standard Bible
"See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity;

SO, I don't believe your hypothetical situation. I don't believe believers could take the mark of the beast. God protects His children and said they will NEVER perish.

I've addressed this twice already. Don't you read my posts?

How about doing so and THEN discussing my point with me.

I see you are still ashamed of your own man made doctrine, because you won’t answer a question that truly exposes it as false.


Based on the teaching of ES, OSAS, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?


Yes?

or

No?




JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

I see you are still ashamed of your own man made doctrine, because you won’t answer a question that truly exposes it as false.


Based on the teaching of ES, OSAS, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?


Yes?

or

No?




JLB

A born again believer cannot take the mark of the beast. Whoever takes the mark will suffer His wrath.

And born-again believers are promised eternal life and cannot, no not ever perish. And will not suffer His wrath.

It's funny how you will take to heart the truth that those who take the mark will perish. That 's undeniable in your book.

But the simple, clear message that believers will never , no not ever perish is not truth in your book.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Among other things, I said this:
"Yes or no; have you stopped beating your wife yet?

So, how would YOU answer that question?

Is that a fair question or not? I'll help out here. It's NOT a fair question. It ASSUMES that you have been beating your wife, obviously.

No different for his bogus question. The basic assumption is totally bogus.


Bogus question. And I don't deal in "hypothetics". Or "what if's...". I deal with "what is". Or reality. "

I will let the Lord judge you and your belief.

Oh, I see. You're gonna "let" the Lord do something. As if you had the power or authority to do otherwise. lol.

However, why didn't you answer my question about whether you are still beating your wife?

Is there something you'd rather not admit?