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Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

FreeGrace2

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Dear Free Grace:

You are repeating yourself.
No, I'm repeated the Word of God. The repetition is your repeated rejection of what Jesus said so very clearly about eternal security.

I am not going to argue with you and rehash the same points I already made.
I agree that you shouldn't. All of your points have been refuted by the very words of Jesus anyway. So the argument is over.

If you cannot see the points I made, that is because you do not want to see them (no offense).
They were refuted by Jesus' clear words. But I have to conclude that hou do not want to see that fact.

Anyways, may God's love shine upon you
God's love shines on all of His children to the max.

Rom 8:32-39.
 
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Gr8Grace

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Remember, this is in context to Cain, who slew his brother. God was pleading with Cain to do what was good and right (See Genesis 4:7).

And what is good and right is trusting in Christ for ones salvation and offering Him what is pleasing to Him.

The loss of salvation crowd and workers for salvation crowd are operating JUST LIKE CAIN. They are relying on the works of their own hands. And MURDERING believers who are operating in the Spiritual life.

Your offering is just like Cains. So you murder(loss of salvation) those who truly believed/trusted in Christ.

Your faith is the same as Cains. Work your tail off, live as morally as possible, produce things that YOU think are 'good' and murder those who actually do divine good.
 
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JLB777

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Just more lame claims.


OK, please address the color coded words in v.28 and explain that Jesus was not teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life and prove that He was not teaching eternal security.

"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

The red words state the CAUSE of having eternal life, which is Jesus Christ Himself.

The blue words state the EFFECT of having eternal life, which is to never perish.

Prove otherwise. Which cannot be done.


So go ahead and prove that Jesus wasn't teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life.

So, like a coloring book, I made it easy to follow my points.


Well, I sure wouldn't claim that Jesus was a bogus man. That's pretty far out. Heresy, even.


I see you like colors too. So addressing my color coded points should be easy then.


Never argued otherwise.


If that's the truth, then it should be real easy to prove my color coded claims wrong.

Why haven't you yet? This isn't the first time I've given you my points all color coded, for ease of understanding.

You have been refuted, as I have plainly proven that Jesus was speaking about people, here in John 15.


A person who is in Christ must continue to remain in Christ, or be cast into the fire and burned.


The way we are to remain in Christ, is by keeping His commandments.


  • Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.





6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Jesus is referring to literal people by His use of pronouns, referring to people.


I know it all must be sooooo confusing to you. I will post the previous verse for context. Maybe that will help.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. John 15:5


Your attempt to discredit and explain way the simple and plain teaching of Jesus Christ, so as to exalt your man made doctrine over the truth of God's word is crystal clear to all who read this thread.


Your claim that this teaching is not literal, has been easily refuted by just reading the text.


  • I am the Vine
  • You are the branches
  • If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch
  • they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.


  • You sir are a promoter of heresy.

Those who practice the work of heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God.


  • those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


  • Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.



JLB
 
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FreeGrace2

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You have been refuted, as I have plainly proven that Jesus was speaking about people, here in John 15.
Of course Jesus was speaking about people who need to abide in Christ in order to bear fruit.

It's impossible to bear fruit for Christ if one is NOT abiding in Him.

But what you continue to fail to grasp is that abiding in Him refers to being IN fellowship, which is being filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walking by the Spirit (Gal 5:16).

But, when a believer is grieving the Spirit (Eph 4:30) or quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19), they cannot bear fruit and are NOT abiding in Him.

The problem is your failure to rightly divide the Word of God. You've been given the verses, but you either ignore them or reject them outright.

As to refuting eternal security from John 15 is just laughable.

Jesus REFUTED the man based loss of salvation view in John 10:28, which I color coded for your ease of reading and understanding what He said.

And you did NOTHING to address my points about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessiong (having) eternal life in that verse.

A person who is in Christ must continue to remain in Christ, or be cast into the fire and burned.
And you've rejected the plain words of Eph 1:13,14 that teach that those "having believed" (note the past (aorist) tense) ARE (presently) sealed with the Spirit, who GUARANTEES their inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession.

How does that sound like losing salvation? Impossible.

The way we are to remain in Christ, is by keeping His commandments.
Fellowship is by on-going confession of sin and a mind-set on "things above" rather than "things below".

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6
Any farmer understanding this agricultural metaphor about unproductive branches. They are discarded (taken out of service).

There is no reason to assume this is refering to the lake of fire. But your ilk always defaults to the lake of fire whenever "fire" is mentioned.

1 Cor 3:14,15 is a good example for using "fire" as simply God's discipline.

Jesus is referring to literal people by His use of pronouns, referring to people.
Yep. Yawn!!

I know it all must be sooooo confusing to you. I will post the previous verse for context. Maybe that will help.
All the confusion is on your side.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. John 15:5
Yep. All about being IN fellowship in order to bear fruit.

Your attempt to discredit and explain way the simple and plain teaching of Jesus Christ, so as to exalt your man made doctrine over the truth of God's word is crystal clear to all who read this thread.
Said the one who blatantly rejects the teaching of Jesus in John 10:28.

Your claim that this teaching is not literal, has been easily refuted by just reading the text.
My explanation doesn't contradict what Jesus taught in Johnb 10:28, as yours does.

You sir are a promoter of heresy.
Look into a mirror when you say that. Because you have directly opposed the teaching of Jesus in John 10:28.

Those who practice the work of heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God.
They sure won't!

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
Just like he who says "I know Him" yet REJECTS His teaching is a liar and the truth is not in him.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.
Those who reject and contradict and oppose what Jesus taught in John 10:28 are NOT abiding in Him. They are NOT in fellowship and they are NOT bearing fruit.

But they ARE bearing the fruit of darkness, and making the devil quite happy.

You are an example of the fulfillment of 1 Peter 5:8 - Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

You, sir, have been devoured. By the devil.
 
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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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I do not deny sinless perfection in the bible. The Lord Jesus Christ did it perfectly. In His life, deeds and In His death.

First, according to the Bible, the true imputation of Christ (i.e. His sacrifice) is applied to a believer's life if they also walk in the light as He is in the light.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

1. Walking = Keeping God's commandments.
2. In the light = In God the Father.
3. As he is in the light = As Christ is in God the Father.

Compare 1 John 1:5-7 with 1 John 2:3-4.
Then read John 14:23.
For the person who loves his brother abides in the light (1 John 2:10).
And the person who hates his brother abides in darkness (1 John 2:11).
Paul says the equivalent of loving your neighbor is keeping the moral law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10).

Second, see my thread here in regards to verses that mention how we are to be perfect, and blameless. In fact, the 144,000 were said to be without fault before the throne of God. The context of the passage is talking about their holy actions.

You said:
It should be GLARINGLY obvious to you, that your faith has NOTHING to do with His life and what HE has done for you.

It should be glaringly obvious to you that you cannot change what Scripture plainly says (like: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 3:15). You have to ignore or twist those verses so as to support your belief (that cannot be found in the Bible).

You said:
Being saved by His grace is through faith in what HE HAS DONE FOR US.

Your faith is all about you.

I believe the Bible teaches that we are "Initially Saved" and "Ultimately Saved" by God's grace when we come to Him by faith (belief). But my faith is not all about me. It is all about Jesus Christ and how He can not only forgiven me of past sin, but it about how Jesus can destroy the works of the devil within my life and or the life of other believers (See 1 John 3:8).

For I believe Jesus saves both in Justification and in Sanctification and all glory and praise for any good work done in my life goes to the Lord Jesus Christ and not myself. So no. My faith is not about myself in any way as you claim.

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Philippians 1:6).

You said:
For crying out loud, GOD became a man. He was attacked day in and day out through His life. Was falsely accused everyday. Was chased by murders everyday. When he finally let them do the Fathers will. They falsely charged Him. Whipped Him to the point of death, ripping his skin and flesh to the bones. Spat on Him. Plucked His beard out. Forced a crown of thorns on His head. Drove spikes through His hands and feet and hung Him on A tree to slowly suffocate and die. And WORST of all He was forsaken by the Father......... ALL for us. You believe in that AND you will be saved.

Well, having a belief on Jesus did not appear to work for those who did wonderful things in His Christ's name (See Matthew 7:23). Why? Because they also worked sin or iniquity. For Jesus told certain believers to depart from him because they worked iniquity. They are believers because they did certain things within the Lord's name. Yet, they were cast out. Obviously if they are believers, they believe in the basics (like trusting in Jesus as their Savior). But belief alone did not save them. This is confirmed by James. James says even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19). For faith without works is dead (James 2:17). James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18).

You said:
You believe in your little pat on the back on how good you are...........you will be judged.

Well, that line might work with a 5 year old or a new believer (who doesn't know his Bible), but it will not work with me. This line of thinking is simply not biblical. For the Bible says,

5 "...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;" (Romans 2:5-12).

"His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:21).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12).

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).

41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42).

26 "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." (Matthew 7:26-27).

18 "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." (Matthew 7:18-20).
 
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Gr8Grace

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My explanation doesn't contradict what Jesus taught in Johnb 10:28, as yours does.

I am just amazed at Gods word. I just noticed this today studying the original language on John 10:28!!! Maybe you saw this and have mentioned it before? But "never perish" is in the double negative. Like John 5:24's 'does not come into condemnation.'

The double negative, as you know, is a doubling down on this particular teaching.

'They will never, NO NOT EVER PERISH FOREVER!' We see this type of language, because the Lord Jesus Christ knew that satan would attack these doctrines with all he had. satan knows a believer cannot advance if they are stuck at the starting line.
 
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JLB777

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Of course Jesus was speaking about people who need to abide in Christ in order to bear fruit.

It's impossible to bear fruit for Christ if one is NOT abiding in Him.

But what you continue to fail to grasp is that abiding in Him refers to being IN fellowship, which is being filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walking by the Spirit (Gal 5:16).

But, when a believer is grieving the Spirit (Eph 4:30) or quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19), they cannot bear fruit and are NOT abiding in Him.

The problem is your failure to rightly divide the Word of God. You've been given the verses, but you either ignore them or reject them outright.

As to refuting eternal security from John 15 is just laughable.

Jesus REFUTED the man based loss of salvation view in John 10:28, which I color coded for your ease of reading and understanding what He said.

And you did NOTHING to address my points about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessiong (having) eternal life in that verse.


And you've rejected the plain words of Eph 1:13,14 that teach that those "having believed" (note the past (aorist) tense) ARE (presently) sealed with the Spirit, who GUARANTEES their inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession.

How does that sound like losing salvation? Impossible.


Fellowship is by on-going confession of sin and a mind-set on "things above" rather than "things below".


Any farmer understanding this agricultural metaphor about unproductive branches. They are discarded (taken out of service).

There is no reason to assume this is refering to the lake of fire. But your ilk always defaults to the lake of fire whenever "fire" is mentioned.

1 Cor 3:14,15 is a good example for using "fire" as simply God's discipline.


Yep. Yawn!!


All the confusion is on your side.


Yep. All about being IN fellowship in order to bear fruit.


Said the one who blatantly rejects the teaching of Jesus in John 10:28.


My explanation doesn't contradict what Jesus taught in Johnb 10:28, as yours does.


Look into a mirror when you say that. Because you have directly opposed the teaching of Jesus in John 10:28.


They sure won't!


Just like he who says "I know Him" yet REJECTS His teaching is a liar and the truth is not in him.


Those who reject and contradict and oppose what Jesus taught in John 10:28 are NOT abiding in Him. They are NOT in fellowship and they are NOT bearing fruit.

But they ARE bearing the fruit of darkness, and making the devil quite happy.

You are an example of the fulfillment of 1 Peter 5:8 - Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

You, sir, have been devoured. By the devil.
Of course Jesus was speaking about people who need to abide in Christ in order to bear fruit.

It's impossible to bear fruit for Christ if one is NOT abiding in Him.

But what you continue to fail to grasp is that abiding in Him refers to being IN fellowship, which is being filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walking by the Spirit (Gal 5:16).

But, when a believer is grieving the Spirit (Eph 4:30) or quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19), they cannot bear fruit and are NOT abiding in Him.

The problem is your failure to rightly divide the Word of God. You've been given the verses, but you either ignore them or reject them outright.

As to refuting eternal security from John 15 is just laughable.

Jesus REFUTED the man based loss of salvation view in John 10:28, which I color coded for your ease of reading and understanding what He said.

And you did NOTHING to address my points about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessiong (having) eternal life in that verse.


And you've rejected the plain words of Eph 1:13,14 that teach that those "having believed" (note the past (aorist) tense) ARE (presently) sealed with the Spirit, who GUARANTEES their inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession.

How does that sound like losing salvation? Impossible.


Fellowship is by on-going confession of sin and a mind-set on "things above" rather than "things below".


Any farmer understanding this agricultural metaphor about unproductive branches. They are discarded (taken out of service).

There is no reason to assume this is refering to the lake of fire. But your ilk always defaults to the lake of fire whenever "fire" is mentioned.

1 Cor 3:14,15 is a good example for using "fire" as simply God's discipline.


Yep. Yawn!!


All the confusion is on your side.


Yep. All about being IN fellowship in order to bear fruit.


Said the one who blatantly rejects the teaching of Jesus in John 10:28.


My explanation doesn't contradict what Jesus taught in Johnb 10:28, as yours does.


Look into a mirror when you say that. Because you have directly opposed the teaching of Jesus in John 10:28.


They sure won't!


Just like he who says "I know Him" yet REJECTS His teaching is a liar and the truth is not in him.


Those who reject and contradict and oppose what Jesus taught in John 10:28 are NOT abiding in Him. They are NOT in fellowship and they are NOT bearing fruit.

But they ARE bearing the fruit of darkness, and making the devil quite happy.

You are an example of the fulfillment of 1 Peter 5:8 - Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

You, sir, have been devoured. By the devil.

All your mumbo jumbo desperately trying to hide the truth of Jesus words is useless.


6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Jesus is referring to literal people by His use of pronouns, referring to people.


I know it all must be sooooo confusing to you. I will post the previous verse for context. Maybe that will help.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. John 15:5


Your attempt to discredit and explain way the simple and plain teaching of Jesus Christ, so as to exalt your man made doctrine over the truth of God's word is crystal clear to all who read this thread.


Your claim that this teaching is not literal, has been easily refuted by just reading the text.


  • I am the Vine
  • You are the branches
  • If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch
  • they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.


  • You sir are a promoter of heresy.

Those who practice the work of heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God.


  • those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


  • Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.



JLB
 
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JLB777

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They will never, NO NOT EVER PERISH FOREVER!


We all know you have stated in an open forum that a born again Christian can take the mark of the beast and worship and serve the antichrist and still be saved.


Pure Heresy.


We all know where your doctrine comes from.



JLB
 
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FreeGrace2

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I am just amazed at Gods word. I just noticed this today studying the original language on John 10:28!!! Maybe you saw this and have mentioned it before? But "never perish" is in the double negative. Like John 5:24's 'does not come into condemnation.'

The double negative, as you know, is a doubling down on this particular teaching.

'They will never, NO NOT EVER PERISH FOREVER!' We see this type of language, because the Lord Jesus Christ knew that satan would attack these doctrines with all he had. satan knows a believer cannot advance if they are stuck at the starting line.
Excellent point! But those who don't believe what Jesus said, even in plain English, won't be moved by the Greek double negative. Sad.
 
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FreeGrace2

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All your mumbo jumbo desperately trying to hide the truth of Jesus words is useless.
Hm. I've posted in plain English, so it appears to me that you are not very familiar with English then. Or don't know what the words "mumbo jumbo" even mean.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6
Jesus also said, in very straightforward words, that those He gives eternal life shall never, NO NOT EVER perish. Thanks to gr8grace for his observation of the double negative.

So what you're straining at isn't a gnat. It's God's very Word. And you cannot win.

Jesus is referring to literal people by His use of pronouns, referring to people.
Yep. Literal people will be discarded from God's use if they don't abide in Christ.

In fact, those who don't abide CANNOT bear fruit. Simple as that.

I know it all must be sooooo confusing to you. I will post the previous verse for context. Maybe that will help.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. John 15:5
It seems most of your posts are just cut and pastes from previous posts.

Your attempt to discredit and explain way the simple and plain teaching of Jesus Christ
This is a great example of "transference", whereby someone accuses another of exactly what they are doing.

so as to exalt your man made doctrine over the truth of God's word is crystal clear to all who read this thread.
As I have clearly pointed out, Jesus Christ is fully human and the doctrine of eternal security comes straight from Him, as seen in John 10:28.

And you still haven't addressed my color coded points about that verse. I know why, too. They prove eternal security.

Your claim that this teaching is not literal, has been easily refuted by just reading the text.
Well, those much more familiar with English and understand what metaphor and figures of speech are, John 15:6 is a metaphor about people.

QUOTE]
  • I am the Vine
  • You are the branches
  • If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch
  • they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
[/QUOTE]
Is Jesus a literal vine?
Are Christians literal branches.
Did you completely MISS the words "as a branch"?

You sir are a promoter of heresy.
I believe what Jesus taught. You're the one who has vigorously rejected what He taught.

Those who practice the work of heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Correct. But not the way you misunderstand it.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
He who says, "I know HIm" and DOES NOT BELIEVE what He says, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. That's you.

How about dealing with my color coded points regarding John 10:28, which PROVE that what Jesus taught about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having (possessing) eternal life IS eternal security.

The obvious reason you haven't deal with them is that you KNOW you can't refute them. They PROVE eternal security, which you will never, sadly, admit.

And, you have been devoured by the devil. 1 Pet 5:8
 
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FreeGrace2

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Said to gr8grace:
We all know you have stated in an open forum that a born again Christian can take the mark of the beast and worship and serve the antichrist and still be saved.

Pure Heresy.

We all know where your doctrine comes from.
The doctrine of eternal security comes straight from the Lord Jesus Christ, from John 10:28.

And we all know where your doctrine comes from: deception from the devil.

You, sir, have been devoured by the devil. 1 Peter 5:8
 
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tdidymas

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Well, I understand what you believe, but it is not biblical.
If you do not do good works to be saved (After being saved by God's grace), then you either ignore or twist the plain meaning of the warnings in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, 1 John 3:15 (Among many others) and as a result, you end up turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Whether you want that to happen or not) (See Jude 1:4). For to say that we are not saved by good works is to imply that we are saved even if we sin and or if we do evil works. There is no other alternative. Faith is not something that is inactive (See Hebrews 11, and James 2).

As for 1 John 3:9:

You are quoting a Modern Translation corruption. It is talking about a singular act. For the KJV says, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9) (KJV).

Remember, this is in context to Cain, who slew his brother. God was pleading with Cain to do what was good and right (See Genesis 4:7).

1 John 3:15 says that if we hate our brother, we are like a murderer, and no eternal life abides in us. How many acts of hatred does it take to hate your brother? Just one act of hatred is all it takes. So yes. Good work is required, unless of course you deny what 1 John 3:15 says. John says no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. How many times do you have to murder in order to be a murderer? It only takes on act of murder to be a murderer.

Also, when Paul says, "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." in Romans 11:6, he is referring to "Works Alone Salvationism" because he is talking to the Israelite without Christ (See Romans 11:1). For Paul was speaking against the false Pharisee religion that attempted to attack salvation in God's grace through Jesus Christ. For Romans 3:1 says, "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?"

3 "But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:" (Galatians 2:3-4).

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4).

At the Jerusalem counsel in the book of Acts we read:

"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. " (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:" (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

This is all letting us know that Paul was attacking "Circumcision Salvationism" and or going back to obeying all 613 commands from the Law of Moses (as a whole or package deal). However, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. This means we are under a New Covenant with new commands. For we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the OLDNESS of the LETTER (See Romans 7:6). In Romans 8:3-4, we learn that the purpose Christ died on the cross for us was so as to help us to walk in the Spirit so that we can fulfill the "righteousness of the law" (Meaning: The righteous aspect or part of the Old Law - "To Love your neighbor," or "to keep the Moral Law" which is an important part of the New Covenant - See Romans 13:8-10). Also, see Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14.

Jason, you are misrepresenting what I wrote. You didn't read it carefully enough. Note the highlighted text, which is the opposite of what I actually wrote. Please read what I wrote carefully, and the verse I quoted (1 Jn. 3:9).

You said "modern translation corruption." So are you a KJV-onlyist? Do you think that Westcott and Hort were devils, and that the early text theory is ungodly? As far as I am concerned, your splitting hairs over the term "commit" is a diversion from the truth I am trying to convey here. The Christian life is a WAY (journey toward God), not perfectionism.

As far as your "grace + works" theory of salvation, how do you think Gal. 5:4 doesn't apply to that in principle? The context of circumcision and Jewish customs does not limit the principle of falling from grace to those specific actions. It can apply to anything, including baptism, communion, and works orientation. If you are seeking to be justified (accepted by God) by works (or by grace + works), you are fallen from grace.

What I wrote above is actually the gospel way of appropriating the power of God to fulfill the righteousness of the law. Heb. 9:14 shows us that faith in Christ's sacrifice alone cleanses our conscience, so that we can serve God through love, which is the requirement of the law. This is cleaning the inside of the cup so that the outside becomes clean.

So I reiterate what I wrote:
I do good works because I am saved, not in order to be saved. I am saved by God's grace only. Because I believe this, I believe that God's love for me is unconditional, and that is my motivation for doing good works. I have no fear of losing my salvation. Rather, I am grateful to God for the awesome thing He did for me, and peace with Him is so precious to me that the thought of committing sin against Him is utterly disgusting. In this way God has changed the disposition of my heart. He turned me from a hater of God to a lover of God.

My point is that good works is not a part of being saved. If it is, then "grace is no longer grace."

"The one born of God does not continue sinning, because God's seed is in him. He cannot continue sinning because he is born of God." (1 Jn. 3:9)
TD:)
 
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Gr8Grace

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We all know you have stated in an open forum that a born again Christian can take the mark of the beast and worship and serve the antichrist and still be saved.


Pure Heresy.


We all know where your doctrine comes from.



JLB
Your a bitter little man aren't you?

And Incorrigible.
 
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JLB777

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Your a bitter little man aren't you?

And Incorrigible.



I'm truly blessed, to know Christ and read His words.


Those who teach God's people that they can worship the antichrist and take his mark, and still be saved are promoting Heresy.


Let's just settle this here and now for all who are reading and participating in this thread.


Freegrace, based on the teaching of OSAS, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?


Yes?

or

No?




JLB
 
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JLB777

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Said to gr8grace:

The doctrine of eternal security comes straight from the Lord Jesus Christ, from John 10:28.

And we all know where your doctrine comes from: deception from the devil.

You, sir, have been devoured by the devil. 1 Peter 5:8



Let's just settle this here and now for all who are reading and participating in this thread.


Freegrace, based on the teaching of ES, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?


Yes?

or

No?




JLB
 
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FreeGrace2

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I'm truly blessed, to know Christ and read His words.
But why don't you believe what He said so clearly in John 10:28 then?

Those who teach God's people that they can worship the antichrist and take his mark, and still be saved are promoting Heresy.
Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish.

But you don't really believe that.

Freegrace, based on the teaching of OSAS, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?


Yes?
Here's the rub that you won't face. By the time we get to the "mark of the beast" during the Tribulation, all unfaithful believers will have been killed off, per God's divine discipline known as "the sin unto death" as noted by John in 1 John 5:16, and examples given in 1 Cor 5:5, 11:30, and 1 Tim 1:19.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Jesus would NEVER have said what He did in John 10:28 if He KNEW there would be believers who would take the mark.

And since Jesus IS God, and therefore, omniscient, it is obvious to all reasonable people that there will be NO believers who will take the mark.

But you're free to assume any old thing you desire.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Let's just settle this here and now for all who are reading and participating in this thread.
Got news for you. It's BEEN settled by the Words of Jesus in John 10:28.

Those He gives eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish.

But you just don't and won't believe that.

Freegrace, based on the teaching of ES, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?


Yes?
As I just answered in my previous post, no need to repeat myself.

Jesus knew there would be no unfaithful believers when the "mark of the beast" is set up. Otherwise, what He said in John 10:28 would be a lie.

Now, wouldn't it?
 
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JLB777

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But why don't you believe what He said so clearly in John 10:28 then?


Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish.

But you don't really believe that.


Here's the rub that you won't face. By the time we get to the "mark of the beast" during the Tribulation, all unfaithful believers will have been killed off, per God's divine discipline known as "the sin unto death" as noted by John in 1 John 5:16, and examples given in 1 Cor 5:5, 11:30, and 1 Tim 1:19.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Jesus would NEVER have said what He did in John 10:28 if He KNEW there would be believers who would take the mark.

And since Jesus IS God, and therefore, omniscient, it is obvious to all reasonable people that there will be NO believers who will take the mark.

But you're free to assume any old thing you desire.
Got news for you. It's BEEN settled by the Words of Jesus in John 10:28.

Those He gives eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish.

But you just don't and won't believe that.


As I just answered in my previous post, no need to repeat myself.

Jesus knew there would be no unfaithful believers when the "mark of the beast" is set up. Otherwise, what He said in John 10:28 would be a lie.

Now, wouldn't it?


Let's just settle this here and now for all who are reading and participating in this thread.


Freegrace, based on the teaching of ES, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?


Yes?

or

No?




JLB
 
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Gr8Grace

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Let's just settle this here and now for all who are reading and participating in this thread.


Freegrace, based on the teaching of ES, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?


Yes?

or

No?




JLB

As I said, incorrigible. Believers have already chosen life. And will never, no not ever forever perish. John 10:28.

Taking the mark of the beast is presented to unbelievers in the tribulation. All believers have already been taken home to be with the Lord.

So the mark of the beast is presented to an unbelieving world. It's their last shot.

New American Standard Bible
"See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity;

SO, I don't believe your hypothetical situation. I don't believe believers could take the mark of the beast. God protects His children and said they will NEVER perish.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Let's just settle this here and now for all who are reading and participating in this thread.


Freegrace, based on the teaching of ES, If a born again Christian takes the mark of the beast and worships him, are they still saved?
Yes?
or
No?
JLB
I've addressed this twice already. Don't you read my posts?

How about doing so and THEN discussing my point with me.
 
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