Age of the earth, why is it relevant?!

[Kenny'sID]

Missing your promised contextual analysis, but I give you full credit.
You were able to rephrase the only logical Young Earth answer:
"The Bible doesn't mean, what it says."
Good job sir!

That didn't answer the questions at all, but thanks just thee same.

I am saying that scripture is clear that the earth is ancient, says so clearly and plainly, and that no new testament writers were so confused about what they had read in the OT that they needed to restate how young the earth was to anyone. No one believed the earth was 3000 years old. The hills are so old, they are considered "everlasting" because they don't erode or change in generations. Even then they had fossils of sea creatures showing, just as they do now.

Psalms 102:25, “Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.”

Even during "creation week" the earth is described as very well established and not 4 days old. 4 days would be along time for plants to grow with no sun. Trees with fruit? It takes me a couple years before my trees bear fruit.

A long time for plants to grow? Surely God can manage to create grown plants if he can create the plant to at all?

Your reasoning is so off here, it's as if your coming up with reasons to match what you believe instead of reasons already in place bringing you to a belief....evolutionists love to do that.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Then if there is nothing to interpret why do you cling to a very specific interpretation,

I already told you, I stick with exactly what the words say. I don't change it and call it "interpretation".

*So again what does "Let the land produce..." mean?

Same there, I already told you. What in the world you are writing a book on the term "home" for is beyond me?. Do you think you have caught me at something? Is there a big "I got you" in there somewhere? and if so, what is it? Let's work our way from the inside out on that one, maybe I can help you with that specifically. I mean seriously, no one goes on like that over a word unless there is something else to it...something very big, so that's what we need to address.

Of course it is relevant

Did I not already tell you it was not and why, yet you say I didn't address it. You are wrong, I addressed it, and you didn't like my answer. My answer remains the same.

Then please explain why so many people disagree with you? It is only a "bad start" to one who doesn't consider their self-stultifying initial remark.

Because I disagree with them, tit for tat, two to tango. Have you really drawn a conclusion, on average, more people disagree with me that the norm of people disagreeing with each other?

Sorry, but I'll need your stats on that.

This is just as I thought, I did address your questions, every single one that you are claiming I did not, so please understand if I stop answering your posts, as they just keep saying the same thing, accusing me of things time and time again, that simply are not true...

And don't get me wrong, that doesn't bother me, it's just too time consuming to answer to empty accusations time and time again.

 

[Jamsie]

I already told you, I stick with exactly what the words say. I don't change it and call it "interpretation".
Same there, I already told you. What in the world you are writing a book on the term "home" for is beyond me?. Do you think you have caught me at something? Is there a big "I got you" in there somewhere? and if so, what is it? Let's work our way from the inside out on that one, maybe I can help you with that specifically. I mean seriously, no one goes on like that over a word unless there is something else to it...something very big, so that's what we need to address.
Did I not already tell you it was not and why, yet you say I didn't address it. You are wrong, I addressed it, and you didn't like my answer. My answer remains the same.
Because I disagree with them, tit for tat, two to tango. Have you really drawn a conclusion, on average, more people disagree with me that the norm of people disagreeing with each other?
Sorry, but I'll need your stats on that.
This is just as I thought, I did address your questions, every single one that you are claiming I did not, so please understand if I stop answering your posts, as they just keep saying the same thing, accusing me of things time and time again, that simply are not true...
And don't get me wrong, that doesn't bother me, it's just too time consuming to answer to empty accusations time and time again.

Fair enough, looking back through the various posts it is quite clear that you addressed very little in terms of "mediate" vs. immediate, create vs. made, clear direction of command/fiat, Genesis 1 structure, etc. If you can show me where exactly you specifically addressed the questions then I will apologize and answer your defense/interpretation.
(Questions are at the bottom of Post #223)

These are your words:
"Let the water/land bring forth" the water and land are home to things being brought since it was spoken and up to now, things being born of bodies (brought forth) created by God,..."

I asked " Where in the Bible or any concordance is the word "produce" or "bring forth" defined as ""home"?

You wrote:
Would you like me to quote the KJV instead? What version do you want?

Yes, show me where the Bible has produce/bring forth defined as "home" in any version of scripture... a simple question no need for a book to be written.

You wrote: "If I missed something I will address it, if I did not, then it's on you fro making the accusation...we shall see"

I did pose the questions, again and again and you are unable to answer. (Except with "plain and simple reading" however one would think that then it should be easy to answer...but it seems not. We can leave it at that ...and perhaps someone at some point of the YEC interpretation school can answer the questions. (Questions are at the bottom of Post #223)

 

[Kenny'sID]

Yes, show me where the Bible has produce/bring forth defined as "home" in any version of scripture... a simple question no need for a book to be written.

Are you serious?? My use of the word home was part of me replying to you. what do you want from me? I have to use words here, it's the only way to communicate. Are you saying the land and the water are not home to things living?

You complain about me not addressing, I address something and you complain about a word I used to describe something??!

This is by far one of the weirdest conversations I've ever had on this board. I think we're done here, it's a waste of time/nothing will be settled.

 

[Jamsie]

Are you serious?? My use of the word home was part of me replying to you. what do you want from me? I have to use words here, it's the only way to communicate. Are you saying the land and the water are not home to things living?

You complain about me not addressing, I address something and you complain about a word I used to describe something??!

This is by far one of the weirdest conversations I've ever had on this board. I think we're done here, it's a waste of time/nothing will be settled.

What I had wanted from you was a discussion of Genesis 1 but obviously you weren't really interested and avoided the various questions. It is weird because you do not nor have not answered the direct questions, if you aren't interested you should have simply said so. I asked you what "Let the Land PRODUCE..." meant, and your reply was "home"... A simple and plain reading of Genesis does not say "Let the land home..." or "be home" or "live in the home", so either you used the wrong word, obviously, or you are avoiding what the word produce or bring forth means, pretty simple. If you can show how the Hebrew word "yatsa'" in Gen. 1:24 means home I will apologize. Now this simple and plain reading raises another question...when was the earth created? (I don't see it in the passage as being created in the creation week...so if it already was created why would he create a "home" when one already existed? Or then why would God command the Land to produce itself, as a home? And wouldn't God command creating living creatures after he had created the Land? So who is confused?

As I mentioned go back through the posts and you will see, as will anyone, that you did not answer the questions. Rather your response centered around the old semi ad hominem approach..."lean...understanding", "stretched", "our own.../no longer the truth", "...because we are smart", "confusion", and "unreasonable"... simply avoidance...which is fine. You can't defend the plain reading and none of these remarks address the questions.

So let us move on, and as I said perhaps at some point someone will want to actually address, discuss, and converse on Genesis 1 with serious intent.

 

[SkyWriting]

That didn't answer the questions at all, but thanks just thee same.

Your request was to provide passages for you to check the context and see where I was wrong. I'll assume that failed and you were forced to redirect.

19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.

Most people perceive the formation of stars and their placement millions of light years distant from each other in the Cosmos as a sign of ancient creation.

I can't imagine a star forming in under 10,000 years.

 

[SkyWriting]

A long time for plants to grow? Surely God can manage to create grown plants if he can create the plant to at all? Your reasoning is so off here, it's as if your coming up with reasons to match what you believe instead of reasons already in place bringing you to a belief....evolutionists love to do that.

Still avoiding the contextual analysis?

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.


Deuteronomy 33:15 with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains ...
with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains and
the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills; ...
//biblehub.com/deuteronomy/33-15.htm - 17k


Habakkuk 3:6 He stood, and shook the earth; he looked, and made ...
... The ancient mountains crumbled and the age-old hills collapsed-- but he marches
on forever. ... The ancient mountains were crumbled. The age-old hills collapsed. ...
//biblehub.com/habakkuk/3-6.htm - 18k


Psalm 76:4 You are radiant with light, more majestic than ...
... You are the radiant one. You are more majestic than the ancient mountains. .... ...
//biblehub.com/psalms/76-4.htm - 16k

Deuteronomy 33:15 with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains ...
with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains and
the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills; ...
//biblehub.com/deuteronomy/33-15.htm - 17k


Micah 6:2 "Hear, you mountains, the LORD's accusation; listen, you ...
"Hear, you mountains, the LORD's accusation; listen, you everlasting
foundations of the earth. For the LORD has a case against his ...
//biblehub.com/micah/6-2.htm - 18k


Psalm 76:4 You are radiant with light, more majestic than ...
... You are glorious and more majestic than the everlasting mountains. .... ...
//biblehub.com/psalms/76-4.htm - 16k


Genesis 49:26 Your father's blessings are greater than the ...
... Your father's blessings will prove to be stronger than blessings from the
eternal mountains or bounties from the everlasting hills. ...
//biblehub.com/genesis/49-26.htm - 19k

Deuteronomy 33:15 with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains ...
with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains and
the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills; ...
//biblehub.com/deuteronomy/33-15.htm - 17k


Habakkuk 3:6 He stood, and shook the earth; he looked, and made ...
... He stood and measured the earth; he looked and shook the nations; then the eternal
mountains were scattered; the everlasting hills sank low. ...
//biblehub.com/habakkuk/3-6.htm - 18k


Genesis 49:26 Your father's blessings are greater than the ...
... The blessings of your father are mighty beyond the blessings of my parents,
up to the bounties of the everlasting hills. May they ...
//biblehub.com/genesis/49-26.htm - 19k

 

[Jamsie]

Still avoiding the contextual analysis?

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Deuteronomy 33:15 with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains and
the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills...

Habakkuk 3:6 He stood and measured the earth; he looked and shook the nations; then the eternal mountains were scattered; the everlasting hills sank low.

Genesis 49:26 The blessings of your father are mighty beyond the blessings of my parents, up to the bounties of the everlasting hills.

Psalm 76:4 Thou enlightenest wonderfully from the everlasting hills. .

Habakkuk 3:6 When he stops, the earth shakes. When he looks, the nations tremble. He shatters the everlasting mountains and levels the eternal hills.

Micah 6:2 "Hear, you mountains, the LORD's accusation; listen, you everlasting
foundations of the earth.

Romans 1:20 is quite often neglected by those with a contracted view of scripture. God has written two books, quite different in intent but both worthwhile.

 

[SkyWriting]

Romans 1:20 is quite often neglected by those with a contracted view of scripture. God has written two books, quite different in intent but both worthwhile.

God is Spirit. Jesus had hands but nothing He wrote has been recorded.
People write books and some are even inspired books. Some of these
inspired books were inspired by God. Millions, I imagine the total count.

 

[Jamsie]

God is Spirit. Jesus had hands but nothing He wrote has been recorded.
People write books and some are even inspired books. Some of these
inspired books were inspired by God. Millions, I imagine the total count.

At least two I know of - The Bible and the Book of Nature, and Yes, inspired.

 

[SkyWriting]

*So again what does "Let the land produce..." mean?

Close to the typical evolution story. Except directed by God.

 

[Jamsie]

Close to the typical evolution story. Except directed by God.

Yes, it strongly implies process, which we would conclude as God ordained. The bible is too often read without actually being done so with "sufficient delicacy" (GKC), so much is ignored.

 

[Traveling teacher]

it may help if you look at an overall view of the earth....

I believe according to scripture there are basically 4 earths
or remakes of the earth as follows:

1. the EARTH created by God in the beginning...4000bc
the pre flood earth
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2. the EARTH AFTER THE FLOOD....2500bc
the earth we are currently in.....
this earth was drastically diferent from the pre flood earth
as the flood and the splitting up of the earths crust changed the land scape
Genesis 7:11 ..all the springs of the great deep burst forth

3. The 1000 year milleniel EARTH when Jesus returns
the earth will have a dramatic shift and change
2 Peter 3:7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment
v. 12 the elements will melt with fervent heat

A great EARTHQUAKE accurs and changes the earth

I am not sure if this is before or after the 1000 years???
Revelation 16:18-21
... and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth,
The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell...
20Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found.


4. The NEW EARTH at the end of the 1000 year reign

2 peter 3:13 new heavens and a new earth
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

 

[SkyWriting]

The bible doesn't even hint at evolution,

Big Hint:
24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, land crawlers, and wild animals according to their kinds.” And it was so.

 

[SkyWriting]

That's typically the case, though in astronomy we know an event we are observing today through a telescope (or by eye) has of course happened in the past, and then the light from it taking time to travel to us.

The same is true of a microscope on your desk. There is a time delay. And your head has to process the input.
You can't see past observations
but you can predict future ones that might be similar.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Big Hint:
24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, land crawlers, and wild animals according to their kinds.” And it was so.

All sustenance for everything born of the animals God created comes from the earth. If you wish to pretend the earth is doing the creating, because man said so...up to you. Think about it, you didn't get that understanding from the bible, you go it from the many who attempt to make the bible fit evolution, a definition that would never have been considered if someone had not presented the concept of evolution.

 

[Jamsie]

All sustenance for everything born of the animals God created comes from the earth. If you wish to pretend the earth is doing the creating, because man said so...up to you. Think about it, you didn't get that understanding from the bible, you go it from the many who attempt to make the bible fit evolution, a definition that would never have been considered if someone had not presented the concept of evolution.

Perhaps you might want to read the Genesis account again to understand exactly what the Bible states. Nobody said that the earth did the creating...so forget the straw man. It is obvious that you did not read my posts but in spite of that do not distort and twist was is being said.

1. And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures..." any plain reading concludes that God is directly mediating through the land. There is no direct command to living creatures except by way of the land producing no reference to "sustenance", no mention of "home" but the command is to "LET THE LAND", plain and simple. It isn't man that said so...it is God that said so. At some point it may be worth looking up "produce" or "Bring forth" until then you are simply twisting scripture.

 

[Halbhh]

All sustenance for everything born of the animals God created comes from the earth. If you wish to pretend the earth is doing the creating, because man said so...up to you. Think about it, you didn't get that understanding from the bible, you go it from the many who attempt to make the bible fit evolution, a definition that would never have been considered if someone had not presented the concept of evolution.

Simply, God created all that is.

God didn't explain in scripture to us that water is two hydrogen atoms bound together with one oxygen atom, yet it surely is, and therefore that's His Design we can infer.

If evolution happened, then it's surely God's design (regardless of whether intricately guided or unfolding naturally from His perfect creation of nature). If evolution did not happen, that's His design. Either way, it's His.

By claiming evolution could not be His design, some end up (accidentally) placing an artificial block/barrier between some who are lost, not yet believing, and their possible salvation through coming to faith through learning about God and Christ.

It's falsely telling the lost that God doesn't exist if evolution happened. That's not scriptural. God exists either if evolution happened, or if it did not.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You and the KKK are saying the same thing, and using personal religious belief as justification, only the minorities being spoken about is different.

Simply, God created all that is.

God didn't explain in scripture to us that water is two hydrogen atoms bound together with one oxygen atom, yet it surely is, and therefore that's His Design we can infer.

If evolution happened, then it's surely God's design (regardless of whether intricately guided or unfolding naturally from His perfect creation of nature). If evolution did not happen, that's His design. Either way, it's His.

By claiming evolution could not be His design, some end up (accidentally) placing an artificial block/barrier between some who are lost, not yet believing, and their possible salvation through coming to faith through learning about God and Christ.

It's falsely telling the lost that God doesn't exist if evolution happened. That's not scriptural. God exists either if evolution happened, or if it did not.

Telling the lost God doesn't exist?? lol Some of your logic/conclusions there aren't the least bit logical. It's like evolution, you just think it makes sense but you missed/skewed so much in drawing the conclusion.

First I know it's his, it's all his...that has no bearing here. Actually, not much if what you said had anything to do with what you replied to.

Secondly, he didn't have to explain, (not even sure why you are telling me that) he gave us enough sense to understand language/the bible, and if someone chooses to get evolution out of those words, I already said, it's up to them, but they should be ready for disagreement. I already explained my thoughts on how they got what they did there, and it didn't come from just reading/understanding the bible, as I repeat below, please read/pay attention to what I said. Personally, I just read the Bible, and refuse to go with what someone "prefers" to get from scripture, someone that wants to steer me into believing evolution like they have you all, simple as that.

Think about it, you didn't get that understanding from the bible, you got it from the many who attempt to make the bible fit evolution, a definition that would never have been considered if someone had not presented the concept of evolution.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Perhaps you might want to read the Genesis account again to understand exactly what the Bible states. Nobody said that the earth did the creating...so forget the straw man. It is obvious that you did not read my posts but in spite of that do not distort and twist was is being said.

1. And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures..." any plain reading concludes that God is directly mediating through the land. There is no direct command to living creatures except by way of the land producing no reference to "sustenance", no mention of "home" but the command is to "LET THE LAND", plain and simple. It isn't man that said so...it is God that said so. At some point it may be worth looking up "produce" or "Bring forth" until then you are simply twisting scripture.

See my last post.