The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Your question has been answered! What part of every last rotten broken sinner would you care to add an adjective to?
"From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends.."

so your answer is yes then? hitler and judas are in Christ?

 

[Hillsage]

were judas and hitler in Christ?

I believe he answered that question in post #4.


But I think you're asking the wrong question. Were Judas and Hitler being reconciled at the same time you were, when Jesus died on the cross? So were your trespasses 'not imputed' then, like theirs according to the bible?

2CO 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

And were their sins 'atoned' for, at the same time yours were?

1JO 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Has not the price been paid, for them as well as us?

Would you share a scripture where your trespasses and sins are not forgiven until you accept Jesus?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Would you share a scripture where your trespasses and sins are not forgiven until you accept Jesus?

john 3:16

also, the reference to phil 2 isn't saying everyone will be saved but rather that everyone shall pay homage to the King(who is Christ).

 

[FineLinen]

I believe he answered that question in post #4.


But I think you're asking the wrong question. Were Judas and Hitler being reconciled at the same time you were, when Jesus died on the cross? So were your trespasses 'not imputed' then, like theirs according to the bible?

2CO 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

And were their sins 'atoned' for, at the same time yours were?

1JO 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Has not the price been paid, for them as well as us?

Would you share a scripture where your trespasses and sins are not forgiven until you accept Jesus?

Greetings Hillsage & thank you for an extra ordinary response. The Father is indeed reconciling the lost beings of Adam 1 to Himself. The Last Adam has appeared on the mass of humanities behalf. When the final stages of that glorious Presentation is finally complete in the ages to come, the Father's "cherished purpose" in the Son of His love will have reached every last dimension of the heavens, the earth and the underworld>>>>every last dimension! I do trust you will continue with us. I (at least) will find pleasure in getting to hear more of what you grasp of Abba's lovely purpose. In coming days a wonderful book by Thomas Allin will be presented where the following will be addressed>>>>>

Chapter I -- The Question Stated


Chapter II -- The Popular Creed Wholly Untenable


Chapter III -- The Popular Creed Wholly Untenable (continued)


Chapter IV -- What the Church Teaches


Chapter V -- What the Church Teaches (continued)


Chapter VI -- Universalism and Creation


Chapter VII -- What the Old Testament Teaches


Chapter VIII -- What the New Testament Teaches


Chapter IX -- What the New Testament Teaches (continued)

 

[ClementofA]

so your answer is yes then? hitler and judas are in Christ?

As a universalist i would say, perhaps not yet, but they certainly shall be when the Scriptures are fulfilled, such as Phil.2:9-11; Rom.5:18-19 & 1 Cor.15:22-28, etc:

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

 

[FineLinen]

john 3:16

also, the reference to phil 2 isn't saying everyone will be saved but rather that everyone shall pay homage to the King(who is Christ).

You big silly: assuming you know what being "IN" the Name of Jesus Christ means; rest assured the "homage", by all beings, in all dimensions of the universe, will bow and confess "You are Lord!", to Abba's great pleasure. You can also rest assured this "homage" is NOT by perfunctory genuflections, NOT!

"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampsh). First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina. Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22 ;Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13 . Under the earth (katacqoniwn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T." -A.T Robertson-

 

[ClementofA]

also, the reference to phil 2 isn't saying everyone will be saved but rather that everyone shall pay homage to the King(who is Christ).

"Appendix II: Every Knee Shall Bow"

"God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Ph. 2:9-11 NAS). Is this forced worship, or one offered genuinely from the heart? Below are 20 points that together, I believe, unmistakably affirm true worship.  According to Vine, ―bow,‖ (kamptō per Strong‘s 2578, ―to bend‖) is used especially of bending the knees in religious veneration (Ro.11:4, 14:11; Ep. 3:14; Ph. 2:10). [In contrast] sunkamptō signifies… to bend down by compulsory force‖ (Ro. 11:10). 1  The phrase ―confess that Jesus Christ is Lord‖ was used in early baptismal services by which those being baptized expressed their commitment to Christ or declared they had been saved through Christ.2 Now, since ―under the earth‖ refers to the abode of the dead (or hell), then even in death an opportunity remains to confess Christ unto salvation.  ―No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit‖ (1Co. 12:3). This is strong evidence it refers to a sincere worship since fear alone could bring about a forced worship without the need of the Holy Spirit moving the heart.  Paul links mouth confession with salvation. ―If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus…you will be saved…with the mouth confession is made unto salvation‖ (Ro. 10:9).  This worship brings Him glory. A forced worship would not glorify or satisfy a loving God. ―This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me‖ (Mt. 15:8)
 That this is true worship is confirmed in Re. 5:13 and by the entire context (Re. 5: 11-14) if they are related. ―Every creature in heaven and earth and under the earth…I heard saying: ‗Blessing, honor, glory, power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb‘…‖ (Re. 5:13). Why would these two contexts not be related?  The word ―confess‖ in this passage is the same Greek word exomologeomai that Christ used in praising His Father in Mt. 11:25 and Lu. 10:21. It is used 11 times: Mt. 3:6; 11:25; Mk. 1:5; Lu. 10:21; 22:6; Ac. 19:18; Ro. 14:11; 15:9; Ph. 2:11; Ja. 5:16; and Re. 3:5. None of these can be seen as ―forced‖ praise. They relate to what flows naturally from the heart. For example, Jesus exclaimed, ―I heartily praise Thee, Father…that Thou hast hidden these things…‖ (Mt. 11:25 Wey). The NIV and the NAS read, ―I praise you Father.‖ Ro. 15:9 RSV states, ―I will praise thee among the Gentiles, and sing to thy name‖ (See the NIV, NAS, TEV, Phillips, Jerusalem Bible, RSV, NEB, WEY, and so forth). The Englishman‘s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament says exomologeomai is the Greek word used in Psalms for ―praise‖ (yadah) and ―give thanks‖ (hoday) in the Septuagint used in Christ‘s time. Simply reading Psalms confirms the genuine worship of Ph. 2:11.3

" Ken Eckerty in an article titled, ―The Work of the Cross,‖ said: I think it‘s significant that the bowing of every knee and the confessing of every tongue is done ―in‖ the name of Jesus, not ―at‖ as translated by the KJV. Scholars such as Vincent, Robertson, Young, Rotherham, and Bullinger (just to name a few) all say that it is best translated ―in.‖ ―For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I.…‖ Mt.18:20 ―In‖ Christ‘s name implies an ―entering into‖ or an intimacy with His name. Confession ―in‖ His name cannot mean anything but intimacy. 4 To accurately understand Ph. 2:9-11, we must go to the Old Testament from where it is quoted. Let us look closely at Is. 45:21-25: 21.There is no other God beside Me, a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me. 22. Look to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23. I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath. 24. He shall say, ‗Surely in the LORD I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, and all shall be ashamed who are incensed against Him. 25.In the LORD all the descendents of Israel shall be justified, and shall glory.‘  ―Surely in the LORD I have righteousness‖ (vs. 24). Only a genuine believer could say this. Note that this is stated as an oath (vs. 23), making it especially pertinent.  Those who are incensed against Him shall be ashamed (vs. 24). Being ashamed is usually a positive thing and often a sign of genuine repentance. 2Ch. 30:15; Ezra 9:5-7; Job 19:3; Jer. 6:13-15, 8:12, 12:13, 31:18- 20, Ez. 16:60-63, 36:31-33; 2Th. 3:14-15.

"―All the descendants of Israel shall be justified and shall glory‖ (vs. 25). Justification and glory are undeniable evidences of genuine repentance.  ―Because He delights in mercy. He will again have compassion on us, and will subdue our iniquities. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea (Mic. 7:18-19).‖Is subduing iniquity forcing insincere worship?  ―He is able even to subdue all ―things‖ to Himself (Ph. 3:21).‖ Note: ―things‖ is not in the Greek and that this is said in the very same letter!  ―How awesome are Your works! Through the greatness of Your power Your enemies shall submit themselves to You. All the earth shall worship You and sing praises to You; they shall sing praises to Your name. Selah. Come and see the works of God; He is awesome in His doing toward the sons of men (Ps. 66:3-5).‖ Certainly these passages together with Ph. 2:11 all point to the same glorious worship (Re. 5:13)!

"In Ps. 66:3-5, God is described twice as ―awesome‖ in the very context of ―enemies submitting themselves‖ through His ―great‖ power. And this mind you, is all in the context of ―all the earth‖ worshiping and singing praises to God! David then invites us to come and see how awesome is His doing toward humanity! Where is ―forced‖ worship here? As well, they are ―submitting themselves,‖ not ―being‖ submitted. Relative to Mic. 7:18-19, how can a ―compassionate subduing‖ from a God ―delighting in mercy‖ (in the very context of sins cast away) possibly coincide with a forced worship of those eternally being tormented in hell? Now Ph. 3: 21 is found in the very same letter as our key text, making it particularly pertinent. It affirms that God‘s power is ―even able‖ to do something. ―Even able‖ implies something extraordinarily impressive. A compelled submission by brute force is not particularly impressive. But a God winning the hearts of His enemies through His sacrificial love on the cross—that is impressive! That‘s what makes Him truly a most ―awesome‖ and all powerful God!

"―He humbled Himself…even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him…that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow‖ (Ph. 2:8-9). Every knee bows because of the cross. The word ―therefore‖ links the cross with worship. To deny genuine worship at the foot of the cross is to strip this passage of all its meaning. Worse, it strips the cross of its power to save and insults the Spirit of grace (He. 10:29). Talbott asks: Now just what is the power of the Cross, according to Paul? Is it the power of a conquering hero to compel His enemies to obey Him against their will? If that had been Paul‘s doctrine, it would have been strange indeed, for God had no need of a crucifixion to compel obedience. He was quite capable of doing that all along. God sent His Son into the world, not as a conquering hero, but as a suffering servant; and the power that Jesus unleashed as He bled on the Cross was precisely the power of self-giving love, the power to overcome evil by transforming the wills and renewing the minds of the evil ones themselves. ⁵

"The cross of Christ is the greatest power in the universe because it alone can melt the hearts of God‘s enemies, and make them His friends. As John Milton, the famous 17th century English author wrote, ―Who overcomes by force hath overcome but half his foe.‖ 6

" Salvation is directly mentioned here. ―Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Therefore…work out your own salvation…for God works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure‖ (Ph. 2:11-13). The word ―therefore‖ is very significant, for it links the confession that Jesus is Lord directly with salvation.  God Himself works in them ―to will.‖ Does God working in the hearts of His children to will to do His good pleasure mean only a forced submission? The question is its own refutation.  ―When all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him that God may be all in all‖ (1Co. 15:28). The Greek word for ―subject‖ is the same word applied to Christ. Can it be questioned that Christ‘s submission is not freely given? Moreover, would God be all in subjects forcefully subjugated?  God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name…. What kind of a worship, sincere or genuine, would highly exalt Christ? I know which one would lowly exalt Him.  Finally, some will say, ―Of course they‘ll confess then, it will all be too obvious. There will be no merit to confessing then.‖ But are we saved by merit? Where is boasting? It is excluded (Ro. 3:27). We, as the Church, have stripped this passage of its full glory. The bottom line is the love of God will do what His power alone could never do: conquer the hearts of His enemies and make them His friends.

"Why did I go into such detail over this one verse? Because this passage is very well known, quoted, and even sung about. Sadly, it is not truly appreciated for its glorious meaning. I think any honest reflection of these twenty points must agree with the evidence presented, that Ph. 2:9-11 affirms sincere and heartfelt worship."

For the original version of the above quoted material, please see p.197-200 from:

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[FineLinen]

As a universalist i would say, perhaps not yet, but they certainly shall be when the Scriptures are fulfilled, such as Phil.2:9-11; Rom.5:18-19 & 1 Cor.15:22-28, etc:

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Good grief, are my old eyes betraying me? Let me get my reading glasses>>>>>>My brother you have arrived just in the nick of time. We are heading into a wonderful time together, and I know F.L. can count on you to sing His praises. I know there are lurkers out there following this link, but together we are going to make antiphonal worship together. I must go back to bed for a mite before this ancient frame implodes. Speak to the big silly, speak to all of us about Abba!

 

[thesunisout]

The Beautiful Heresy

The Beautiful Heresy- Christian Universalism: The Early Church

The opinion of men doesn't hold any sway over our eternal destiny. There is only one pertinent question: Did the Lord Jesus teach that there is an eternal hell? The answer is yes. Jesus taught more on hell than anyone else in scripture.

 

[ClementofA]

The opinion of men doesn't hold any sway over our eternal destiny. There is only one pertinent question: Did the Lord Jesus teach that there is an eternal hell? The answer is yes. Jesus taught more on hell than anyone else in scripture.

Yet your opinions just stated also falls into the category of the "opinion of men", or rather one of such. Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

 

[FineLinen]

The opinion of men doesn't hold any sway over our eternal destiny. There is only one pertinent question: Did the Lord Jesus teach that there is an eternal hell? The answer is yes. Jesus taught more on hell than anyone else in scripture.

NO! Be careful how you throw aidios around. "Eternal" is found only in reference to the Eternal One, in exactly two passages of Scripture. Aionios you had best not think for a moment extends beyond the ages, in the same dimension as the Hebrew "olam". More available upon request.

 

[FineLinen]

"Appendix II: Every Knee Shall Bow"

"God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Ph. 2:9-11 NAS). Is this forced worship, or one offered genuinely from the heart? Below are 20 points that together, I believe, unmistakably affirm true worship.  According to Vine, ―bow,‖ (kamptō per Strong‘s 2578, ―to bend‖) is used especially of bending the knees in religious veneration (Ro.11:4, 14:11; Ep. 3:14; Ph. 2:10). [In contrast] sunkamptō signifies… to bend down by compulsory force‖ (Ro. 11:10). 1  The phrase ―confess that Jesus Christ is Lord‖ was used in early baptismal services by which those being baptized expressed their commitment to Christ or declared they had been saved through Christ.2 Now, since ―under the earth‖ refers to the abode of the dead (or hell), then even in death an opportunity remains to confess Christ unto salvation.  ―No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit‖ (1Co. 12:3). This is strong evidence it refers to a sincere worship since fear alone could bring about a forced worship without the need of the Holy Spirit moving the heart.  Paul links mouth confession with salvation. ―If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus…you will be saved…with the mouth confession is made unto salvation‖ (Ro. 10:9).  This worship brings Him glory. A forced worship would not glorify or satisfy a loving God. ―This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me‖ (Mt. 15:8)
 That this is true worship is confirmed in Re. 5:13 and by the entire context (Re. 5: 11-14) if they are related. ―Every creature in heaven and earth and under the earth…I heard saying: ‗Blessing, honor, glory, power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb‘…‖ (Re. 5:13). Why would these two contexts not be related?  The word ―confess‖ in this passage is the same Greek word exomologeomai that Christ used in praising His Father in Mt. 11:25 and Lu. 10:21. It is used 11 times: Mt. 3:6; 11:25; Mk. 1:5; Lu. 10:21; 22:6; Ac. 19:18; Ro. 14:11; 15:9; Ph. 2:11; Ja. 5:16; and Re. 3:5. None of these can be seen as ―forced‖ praise. They relate to what flows naturally from the heart. For example, Jesus exclaimed, ―I heartily praise Thee, Father…that Thou hast hidden these things…‖ (Mt. 11:25 Wey). The NIV and the NAS read, ―I praise you Father.‖ Ro. 15:9 RSV states, ―I will praise thee among the Gentiles, and sing to thy name‖ (See the NIV, NAS, TEV, Phillips, Jerusalem Bible, RSV, NEB, WEY, and so forth). The Englishman‘s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament says exomologeomai is the Greek word used in Psalms for ―praise‖ (yadah) and ―give thanks‖ (hoday) in the Septuagint used in Christ‘s time. Simply reading Psalms confirms the genuine worship of Ph. 2:11.3

" Ken Eckerty in an article titled, ―The Work of the Cross,‖ said: I think it‘s significant that the bowing of every knee and the confessing of every tongue is done ―in‖ the name of Jesus, not ―at‖ as translated by the KJV. Scholars such as Vincent, Robertson, Young, Rotherham, and Bullinger (just to name a few) all say that it is best translated ―in.‖ ―For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I.…‖ Mt.18:20 ―In‖ Christ‘s name implies an ―entering into‖ or an intimacy with His name. Confession ―in‖ His name cannot mean anything but intimacy. 4 To accurately understand Ph. 2:9-11, we must go to the Old Testament from where it is quoted. Let us look closely at Is. 45:21-25: 21.There is no other God beside Me, a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me. 22. Look to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23. I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath. 24. He shall say, ‗Surely in the LORD I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, and all shall be ashamed who are incensed against Him. 25.In the LORD all the descendents of Israel shall be justified, and shall glory.‘  ―Surely in the LORD I have righteousness‖ (vs. 24). Only a genuine believer could say this. Note that this is stated as an oath (vs. 23), making it especially pertinent.  Those who are incensed against Him shall be ashamed (vs. 24). Being ashamed is usually a positive thing and often a sign of genuine repentance. 2Ch. 30:15; Ezra 9:5-7; Job 19:3; Jer. 6:13-15, 8:12, 12:13, 31:18- 20, Ez. 16:60-63, 36:31-33; 2Th. 3:14-15.

"―All the descendants of Israel shall be justified and shall glory‖ (vs. 25). Justification and glory are undeniable evidences of genuine repentance.  ―Because He delights in mercy. He will again have compassion on us, and will subdue our iniquities. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea (Mic. 7:18-19).‖Is subduing iniquity forcing insincere worship?  ―He is able even to subdue all ―things‖ to Himself (Ph. 3:21).‖ Note: ―things‖ is not in the Greek and that this is said in the very same letter!  ―How awesome are Your works! Through the greatness of Your power Your enemies shall submit themselves to You. All the earth shall worship You and sing praises to You; they shall sing praises to Your name. Selah. Come and see the works of God; He is awesome in His doing toward the sons of men (Ps. 66:3-5).‖ Certainly these passages together with Ph. 2:11 all point to the same glorious worship (Re. 5:13)!

"In Ps. 66:3-5, God is described twice as ―awesome‖ in the very context of ―enemies submitting themselves‖ through His ―great‖ power. And this mind you, is all in the context of ―all the earth‖ worshiping and singing praises to God! David then invites us to come and see how awesome is His doing toward humanity! Where is ―forced‖ worship here? As well, they are ―submitting themselves,‖ not ―being‖ submitted. Relative to Mic. 7:18-19, how can a ―compassionate subduing‖ from a God ―delighting in mercy‖ (in the very context of sins cast away) possibly coincide with a forced worship of those eternally being tormented in hell? Now Ph. 3: 21 is found in the very same letter as our key text, making it particularly pertinent. It affirms that God‘s power is ―even able‖ to do something. ―Even able‖ implies something extraordinarily impressive. A compelled submission by brute force is not particularly impressive. But a God winning the hearts of His enemies through His sacrificial love on the cross—that is impressive! That‘s what makes Him truly a most ―awesome‖ and all powerful God!

"―He humbled Himself…even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him…that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow‖ (Ph. 2:8-9). Every knee bows because of the cross. The word ―therefore‖ links the cross with worship. To deny genuine worship at the foot of the cross is to strip this passage of all its meaning. Worse, it strips the cross of its power to save and insults the Spirit of grace (He. 10:29). Talbott asks: Now just what is the power of the Cross, according to Paul? Is it the power of a conquering hero to compel His enemies to obey Him against their will? If that had been Paul‘s doctrine, it would have been strange indeed, for God had no need of a crucifixion to compel obedience. He was quite capable of doing that all along. God sent His Son into the world, not as a conquering hero, but as a suffering servant; and the power that Jesus unleashed as He bled on the Cross was precisely the power of self-giving love, the power to overcome evil by transforming the wills and renewing the minds of the evil ones themselves. ⁵

"The cross of Christ is the greatest power in the universe because it alone can melt the hearts of God‘s enemies, and make them His friends. As John Milton, the famous 17th century English author wrote, ―Who overcomes by force hath overcome but half his foe.‖ 6

" Salvation is directly mentioned here. ―Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Therefore…work out your own salvation…for God works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure‖ (Ph. 2:11-13). The word ―therefore‖ is very significant, for it links the confession that Jesus is Lord directly with salvation.  God Himself works in them ―to will.‖ Does God working in the hearts of His children to will to do His good pleasure mean only a forced submission? The question is its own refutation.  ―When all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him that God may be all in all‖ (1Co. 15:28). The Greek word for ―subject‖ is the same word applied to Christ. Can it be questioned that Christ‘s submission is not freely given? Moreover, would God be all in subjects forcefully subjugated?  God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name…. What kind of a worship, sincere or genuine, would highly exalt Christ? I know which one would lowly exalt Him.  Finally, some will say, ―Of course they‘ll confess then, it will all be too obvious. There will be no merit to confessing then.‖ But are we saved by merit? Where is boasting? It is excluded (Ro. 3:27). We, as the Church, have stripped this passage of its full glory. The bottom line is the love of God will do what His power alone could never do: conquer the hearts of His enemies and make them His friends.

"Why did I go into such detail over this one verse? Because this passage is very well known, quoted, and even sung about. Sadly, it is not truly appreciated for its glorious meaning. I think any honest reflection of these twenty points must agree with the evidence presented, that Ph. 2:9-11 affirms sincere and heartfelt worship."

For the original version of the above quoted material, please see p.197-200 from:

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Good grief Clement! These guys are more in tune with one liners. You, my friend, are a gem and have left for us much to think about. F.L. intends a little later an attempt at breaking it all down in smaller fragments, unless some other noble soul will do it. Now, please do not leave me here alone to discuss this important revelation of the love and grace of the one "who willeth/wills all mankind to be saved..."

Question=

Does the Will of all wills prevail?

 

[FineLinen]

"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampsh). First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina. Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22 ;Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13 . Under the earth (katacqoniwn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T." -A.T Robertson-

That was not too shabby for a Baptist! I will lay all odds on the life of my beloved wife of many years you cannot wait to hear what the same old Baptist declares regarding>>>>>>

Rev. 5:13=

"Every created thing (pan ktisma). Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added). No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off. Saying (legonta). Masculine (construction according to sense, personifying the created things) if genuine, though some MSS. have legonta(grammatical gender agreeing with panta) present active participle of legw, to say. And to the Lamb (kai twi arniwi). Dative case. Praise and worship are rendered to the Lamb precisely as to God on the throne. Note separate articles here in the doxology as in Romans 4:11 and the addition of to krato (active power) in place of iscu (reserve of strength) in Romans 5:12 ." A.T. Robertson-

A.T.R. That was absolutely refreshing to say the least!

"If the trail of the serpent is on all creation it shall be cast off"

"This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption."

When my tears dry we will be back to hear you again

 

[FineLinen]

As a universalist i would say, perhaps not yet, but they certainly shall be when the Scriptures are fulfilled, such as Phil.2:9-11; Rom.5:18-19 & 1 Cor.15:22-28, etc:

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Not yet indeed, but be patient! His will with a capital W prevails! Every knee, every tongue, in all dimensions of earth, heavens, and underworld. ALL!

 

[section9+1]

I do not see an unconditional God. Universalism does not answer reality. It doesn't deal with truth. It just sweeps it away in a beautiful heresy. God is love is taken as a license for too much sin. Practice your sin and remember you can still love God and since God is love it all works out for your good. Really?

 

[FineLinen]

I do not see an unconditional God. Universalism does not answer reality. It doesn't deal with truth. It just sweeps it away in a beautiful heresy. God is love is taken as a license for too much sin. Practice your sin and remember you can still love God and since God is love it all works out for your good. Really?

My friend: I see One who does "will" all mankind to be saved, and come into what His Plan is! His Will is so far above our puny little will's & goes beyond, beyond! God IS love, that is His essence from which His justice and all other aspects of His Person flows! You can take this to the bank: His Plan is not simply for our good, and it is, His purpose in Christ Jesus the Lord is to make the mass of sinners righteous, not simply "account" them righteous: make them righteous in the Last Adam!

Let's hear from an old Baptist again>>>>>>>>>>

Romans 8:21 & 22

The creation itself (auth h ktisi). It is the hope of creation, not of the Creator. Nature "possesses in the feeling of her unmerited suffering a sort of presentiment of her future deliverance" (Godet).

"Groaneth and travaileth in pain (sunstenazei kai sunwdinei). Two more compounds with sun. Both rare and both here alone in N.T. Nature is pictured in the pangs of childbirth.

 

[FineLinen]

The hope of creation, (although most have no idea of this) is for deliverance. The Plan of the Will of all wills=

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/set/free/emancipated from the tyranny of change and decay..."

Not some of created life, not the elect only, not the "especially" only>>>>>>

"The whole of created life"!

 

[FineLinen]

You big silly: assuming you know what being "IN" the Name of Jesus Christ means; rest assured the "homage", by all beings, in all dimensions of the universe, will bow and confess "You are Lord!", to Abba's great pleasure. You can also rest assured this "homage" is NOT by perfunctory genuflections, NOT!

"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampsh). First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina. Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22 ;Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13 . Under the earth (katacqoniwn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T." -A.T Robertson-

Every Knee Shall Bow=

"God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Ph. 2:9-11 NAS). Is this forced worship, or one offered genuinely from the heart? Below are 20 points that together, I believe, unmistakably affirm true worship.  According to Vine, ―bow,‖ (kamptō per Strong‘s 2578, ―to bend) is used especially of bending the knees in religious veneration (Ro.11:4, 14:11; Ep. 3:14; Ph. 2:10). [In contrast] sunkamptō signifies… to bend down by compulsory force (Ro. 11:10). 1  The phrase ―confess that Jesus Christ is Lord‖ was used in early baptismal services by which those being baptized expressed their commitment to Christ or declared they had been saved through Christ.2 Now, since ―under the earth‖ refers to the abode of the dead (or hell), then even in death an opportunity remains to confess Christ unto salvation.  ―No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit‖ (1Co. 12:3).This is strong evidence it refers to a sincere worship since fear alone could bring about a forced worship without the need of the Holy Spirit moving the heart.

*****Thank you Clement

 

[FineLinen]

The opinion of men doesn't hold any sway over our eternal destiny. There is only one pertinent question: Did the Lord Jesus teach that there is an eternal hell? The answer is yes. Jesus taught more on hell than anyone else in scripture.

Did Jesus preach hell more than heaven?

 

[FineLinen]

You big silly: assuming you know what being "IN" the Name of Jesus Christ means; rest assured the "homage", by all beings, in all dimensions of the universe, will bow and confess "You are Lord!", to Abba's great pleasure. You can also rest assured this "homage" is NOT by perfunctory genuflections, NOT!

"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampsh). First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina. Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22 ;Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13 . Under the earth (katacqoniwn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T." -A.T Robertson-

That this is true worship is confirmed in Re. 5:13 and by the entire context (Re. 5: 11-14) if they are related. ―Every creature in heaven and earth and under the earth…I heard saying: ‗Blessing, honor, glory, power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb‘…‖ (Re. 5:13). Why would these two contexts not be related?  The word ―confess‖ in this passage is the same Greek word exomologeomai that Christ used in praising His Father in Mt. 11:25 and Lu. 10:21. It is used 11 times: Mt. 3:6; 11:25; Mk. 1:5; Lu. 10:21; 22:6; Ac. 19:18; Ro. 14:11; 15:9; Ph. 2:11; Ja. 5:16; and Re. 3:5. None of these can be seen as ―forced‖ praise. They relate to what flows naturally from the heart. For example, Jesus exclaimed, ―I heartily praise Thee, Father…that Thou hast hidden these things…‖ (Mt. 11:25 Wey). The NIV and the NAS read, ―I praise you Father.‖ Ro. 15:9 RSV states, ―I will praise thee among the Gentiles, and sing to thy name‖ (See the NIV, NAS, TEV, Phillips, Jerusalem Bible, RSV, NEB, WEY, and so forth). The Englishman‘s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament says exomologeomai is the Greek word used in Psalms for ―praise‖ (yadah) and ―give thanks‖ (hoday) in the Septuagint used in Christ‘s time. Simply reading Psalms confirms the genuine worship of Ph. 2:11.3That this is true worship is confirmed in Re. 5:13 and by the entire context (Re. 5: 11-14) if they are related. ―Every creature in heaven and earth and under the earth…I heard saying: ‗Blessing, honor, glory, power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb‘…‖ (Re. 5:13). Why would these two contexts not be related?  The word ―confess‖ in this passage is the same Greek word exomologeomai that Christ used in praising His Father in Mt. 11:25 and Lu. 10:21. It is used 11 times: Mt. 3:6; 11:25; Mk. 1:5; Lu. 10:21; 22:6; Ac. 19:18; Ro. 14:11; 15:9; Ph. 2:11; Ja. 5:16; and Re. 3:5. None of these can be seen as ―forced‖ praise. They relate to what flows naturally from the heart. For example, Jesus exclaimed, ―I heartily praise Thee, Father…that Thou hast hidden these things…‖ (Mt. 11:25 Wey). The NIV and the NAS read, ―I praise you Father.‖ Ro. 15:9 RSV states, ―I will praise thee among the Gentiles, and sing to thy name‖ (See the NIV, NAS, TEV, Phillips, Jerusalem Bible, RSV, NEB, WEY, and so forth). The Englishman‘s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament says exomologeomai is the Greek word used in Psalms for ―praise‖ (yadah) and ―give thanks‖ (hoday) in the Septuagint used in Christ‘s time. Simply reading Psalms confirms the genuine worship of Ph. 2:11.3
Thank You Clement