Judas was saved and then lost his salvation

[FreeGrace2]

Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Matthew 9:4
And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

Matthew 12:34
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Matthew 15:8
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Matthew 18:35
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Jeremiah 17:10
I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Revelation 2:23
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

All great verses.

And it is okay for you to disrespect men?

No. So why have done that with the apostle Paul?

And it is okay for you to worship and idolize the Roman wooden cross?

I don't do that. And never have.

But why have you mocked the vicarious death of Jesus Christ on a cross?

Why have you rejected the truth of keeping the commandments to enter life, you know the commandments you have mocked?

I've mocked no commandments. But I freely admit that I have REJECTED your phony gospel message that keeping the commandments as the way to receive eternal life.

This is what the Bible says about how to be saved:
Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

And this is what the Bible says about having eternal life:
John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Why don't you believe these verses from the Bible?

Isn't it Jesus and the truth He spoke, by which we enter eternal life?

I've already explained all of what Jesus told the rich man. And neither you nor anyone else showed ANY error in my explanation. And I showed that Jesus was getting to the heart of the man's problem. He couldn't earn eternal life, which was his question.

I don't believe your claim that you defined it.

I don't care.

John 6:68
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

I see you don't believe all words from Jesus are eternal life. Jesus is Life and Truth Itself, so that which proceeds from His is Life and Truth.

Just look at the verses I've shared with you in this post. I believe all of them, so your claim is empty of truth.

btw, To Peter's confession, Jesus had to make a correction, lest anyone think he actually was speaking for the entire group. I will include v.69 which was part of Peter's confession:

69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

So, instead of Peter speaking for the whole group, Jesus corrects his error and points out that Judas was a betrayer and a devil.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I will again point out the problem with your understanding of this phrase. If it did mean that, then Jesus was WRONG in John 10:28. He would have HAD TO include this condition for recipients to not perish.

He didn't because there are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life to not perish.

Which is in direct opposition to your view.


What you fail to understand is that though humans can fail the grace of God, God's grace NEVER fails us. We are saved by grace and kept by that same grace.


Do you have any understanding at all about blessings? Apparently not.

Again, if "profiting nothing" did refer to losing salvation, then Jesus was WRONG in John 10:28.

I just don't know WHY this isn't sinking into your head.

As you said humans can fail of the grace of God. God never fails us. Well, first point is that the letter is written to believers who are warned of failing of the grace of God. The unbelievers in the world are under wrath not in the grace of salvation in Christ. An unbeliever in this context does not fail of the grace of God. you are twisting the text there because of the clear warning to believers it would seem.

Second point, as men can fail of Gods grace but God's grace never fails. Similar Jesus who is eternal life never perishes and those who abide in him will never perish also. He is the word that abideth forever and those who continue in his word through faith will abide forever also. But believers can fail and perish if they abide not , or remain not in Christ as chapter 15 shows.

"23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."(1 Peter 1:23 KJV) the word of God never perishes.

John 8:31
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (if we as believers continue in his word we will never perish either and be his disciples..

1 John 2:14,17 KJV
"... I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one....And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." This shows that he that doeth the will of God and abideth in the word and the word in them shall never perish and have eternal life, forever...IF they continue and abide and overcome through the power of the Spirit.


Again you seem to see the points that I show from scripture then you get troubled and run to John 10 and act as if your verse somehow is not in line with the verses I show and so you create (in your statements) a contradiction.

We also don't find every detail of every aspect of the promise and warnings in every verse, we must take the whole book and all the context into consideration. Otherwise you are not rightly dividing the word of truth . Study to shew thyself approved unto God...

 

[LoveofTruth]

The "falling away" refers to "believed for a while". They fell away from believing. That should be obvious, and it is, except to those with an unbiblical agenda.

No I clearly showed you that to "believe" meant to be saved, as Jesus clearly said in the first example. The second heart received the word with joy ( the joy of salvation similar to Psalms 51 "restore unto me the joy of thy salvation) and believed ( and so were saved) as Jesus said just the verse previous and sadly they only believed for a while and then fell away. Obviously they fell away from salvation. And not just fruit bearing. But if a person bears no fruit they are not in Christ and lost and cut off as Jesus said in John 15.

You must know that Luke 8 shatters the OSAS heresy. You try to make it just about fruit bearing and not believe and be saved. But Jesus corrects your thinking there and says clearly
lest they should believe and be saved" showing that believing is connected to salvation. Jesus also said he that believes hath eternal life. Showing that believing and eternal life are connected to salvation and all one in the same. So the ones who believed for a while and were saved for a while had eternal life for a while.

Scripture clearly shows the connection to believing and everlasting life

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." so if you don't continue in the faith and to believe the wrath is on you.

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In Luke the second heart heard the word and received the word with joy and believed...clearly they were saved and had eternal life and were passed from death unto life. But they believed not and fell away. They only believed for a while. Showing they only had eternal life for a while. They only walked with Jesus Christ in their heart for a while.

and here is my discussion on Luke again in case you didn't read it and examine it closely enough.

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"11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts,[first point, the word is the seed sown in their hearts. This doe not mean the seed is in union with their hearts at the new birth yet, for they have to receive the word first to be saved]

"...lest they should believe and be saved.[next point, if they had believed in this first part they would have been saved. This is very clear from the text]

"13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy;[here we see that they received the word read John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

"..and these have no root, which for a while believe,[here we see that the ones with this heart receive the word and believe for a while. That CLEARLY means they were SAVED for a while. We already saw that if the ones on the previous ground had believed they would be saved. These ones believed and were saved. But they only believed for a while. In the time of temptation they fell away. Perhaps many that followed Jesus were like this believing for a while then fell away. And Jesus knew who they were.]

"..and in time of temptation fall away."[here we see the end of those who only believe for a while, and who are only saved for a while, they fall away. This is to fall away from Salvation as the text shows. For they only believed ( and were saved) for a while. This is very clear to the unbiased reader. The word "fall away, means to depart, be removed, to desist, to revolt And as we read in Hebrews 3;12 believers are warned not to have an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God. ](Luke 8:11-13 KJV)

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Hm. The SAME POINT Jesus made to His 11 disciples in John 15. Only those who abide in Him will bear fruit.

Bearing fruit by having Christ in you and you in him is an aspect of our salvation. If there is no fruit you do not show forth the life of Christ and your religion is vain as James said.Jesus said if a branch does not bear fruit he taketh it away, and without him they can do nothing. How can a person be saved "without" Jesus in him?

If God is in us he is working in us to every good work. If we do not have such good works and fruit of the Spirit can we say we are in him? or in eternal life? or in salvation? if we say we are in him and walk in the light and yet work iniquity and walk in darkness we lie and do not the truth and his truth is not in us.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As you said humans can fail of the grace of God. God never fails us. Well, first point is that the letter is written to believers who are warned of failing of the grace of God.

Yep.

The unbelievers in the world are under wrath not in the grace of salvation in Christ.

I think you misunderstand Scripture.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

You might want to reconsider your claim.

An unbeliever in this context does not fail of the grace of God. you are twisting the text there because of the clear warning to believers it would seem.

I'd have had to claim that the text was to unbelievers in order to "twist the text". But I never did that. It is believers that can fail. But not by losing salvation.

Second point, as men can fail of Gods grace but God's grace never fails. Similar Jesus who is eternal life never perishes and those who abide in him will never perish also.

It is amazing that one would keep making this claim, yet without any support from Scripture.

And I don't think it wise to try to FORCE any conditions in a verse that Jesus didn't add Himself.

"23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."(1 Peter 1:23 KJV) the word of God never perishes.

This really misunderstands what the verse teaches.

It begins with "being born again". That what every believer IS, born again. And not from seed that corrupts, but of seed that is INCORRUPTIBLE. This regeneration is by the Word of God, which lives and abides for ever.

So, Peter is telling us that because our new birth is from INCORRUPTIBLE seed, we cannot be corrupted.

Only those who are NOT born again by INCORRUPTIBLE seed will end up being corrupted.

So,this verse teaches eternal security, just as Jesus did in John 10:28.

There are no conditions for recipients of eternal life, nor are there any for those born again of INCORRUPTIBLE seed.

So thanks for quoting a verse that supports my understanding of Scripture.

John 8:31
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (if we as believers continue in his word we will never perish either and be his disciples..

Huh? Where do you see anything about "perishing" here? Oh right. You like to FORCE words and conditions into Scripture that doesn't belong there.

Again you seem to see the points that I show from scripture then you get troubled and run to John 10 and act as if your verse somehow is not in line with the verses I show and so you create (in your statements) a contradiction.

No, you've got it wrong again. I go to the clearest verse in the Bible on eternal security to SHOW YOU that the verses YOU think teach loss of salvation are not in line with what the Bible teaches on the subject of security.

We also don't find every detail of every aspect of the promise and warnings in every verse, we must take the whole book and all the context into consideration.

Yes, that is exactly what I do.

Otherwise you are not rightly dividing the word of truth . Study to shew thyself approved unto God...

I invite you to do the same.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No I clearly showed you that to "believe" meant to be saved, as Jesus clearly said in the first example.

All you did was to grossly misunderstand what Jesus about the second soil.

You must know that Luke 8 shatters the OSAS heresy.

First, you must be kidding.

Second, I wouldn't advise describing what Jesus, Paul and Peter taught as a heresy. I'm sure you are aware of the fact of God's discipline. And that it is painful. I'm not threatening you or anything like that, but just to note the severity of His discipline toward those believers who grieve or quench the Holy Spirit.

By calling the plan of God regarding the believer's security heresy, I'd guess that such a claim falls under either grieving or quenching the Spirit.

I will warn that you might want to duck.

You try to make it just about fruit bearing and not believe and be saved. But Jesus corrects your thinking there and says clearly

lest they should believe and be saved" showing that believing is connected to salvation.

It's really difficult to correct the views of one who is so confused.

John 15 IS about bearing fruit. Maybe you should read more than just 1 verse.

Also, the parable of the soils is also about fruit bearing. Make sure to read about every soil.

Finally, I already KNOW that believing is directly connected to salvation. But since the Bible also uses the aorist (past) tense for believe, there is NO TEACHING that one must continue to believe in order to be or stay saved.

Jesus also said he that believes hath eternal life.

Then He said He gives them eternal life and they SHALL NEVER PERISH. But for some unknown reason, you're not believing that.

Showing that believing and eternal life are connected to salvation and all one in the same.

No argument. Your error is to assume/presume/guess/hope that believing must be an on-going event in order to stay saved.

So go ahead and quote any verse that plainly says that.

So the ones who believed for a while and were saved for a while had eternal life for a while.

Not.even.close. Or Jesus would have included that condition in John 10:28.

Scripture clearly shows the connection to believing and everlasting life

Preaching to the choir.

John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." so if you don't continue in the faith and to believe the wrath is on you.

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In Luke the second heart heard the word and received the word with joy and believed...clearly they were saved and had eternal life and were passed from death unto life.

Right. But it seems you failed to read the WHOLE verse in 5:24, where Jesus said 3 things about believers:
1. HAS eternal life
2. shall NOT come into condemnation
3. has passed from death to life.

John 5:24 refutes your notion that salvation can be lost.

Bearing fruit by having Christ in you and you in him is an aspect of our salvation.

Actually bearing fruit is a command. It's NOT a part of salvation. It's supposed to follow salvation.

If there is no fruit you do not show forth the life of Christ and your religion is vain as James said.Jesus said if a branch does not bear fruit he taketh it away, and without him they can do nothing. How can a person be saved "without" Jesus in him?

All.MESSED.UP.
VERY.CONFUSED.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I think you misunderstand Scripture.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

You might want to reconsider your claim.

No unbeliever is in the grace of salvation in Christ, the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared unto all men, but not all men are in it only believers. And so to fail of the grace of God is only a warning for believers. But you miss my point as you often do and go off on a tangent. I said we are saved by grace if a man fails of the grace or falls from grace he fails or falls from salvation.

Paul warned some that they were moved away from God who called them INTO the grace of Christ unto another gospel (Galatians 1)

We can say that God have given grace for grace in the sense that the true Light lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Bit when they hate that light they are condemned John 3. So only those who are in the grace of God and believe the gospel of the grace of God have that salvation and are warned. Paul exhorted other believers to "continue in the grace of God". Why tell them to do so if they could never cease from doing so, or if they could never "fail of the grace of God. Some are warned of the danger of doing despite the grace of God and the danger is fiery indignation and judgement (Hebrews 10 KJV)

This really misunderstands what the verse teaches.

It begins with "being born again". That what every believer IS, born again. And not from seed that corrupts, but of seed that is INCORRUPTIBLE. This regeneration is by the Word of God, which lives and abides for ever.

So, Peter is telling us that because our new birth is from INCORRUPTIBLE seed, we cannot be corrupted.

Only those who are NOT born again by INCORRUPTIBLE seed will end up being corrupted.

No you totally missed what i was showing I will post it again. Notice that the word abides forever and never perishes we could say. And those who are continuing in the word also abide forever and are Jesus disciples, and John says to Let the word abide in them and remain and if they do so they will continue in the Son and in the father and have eternal life promised.

Also Jesus says through John, those who let the word abide in them and do the will of God "abideth for ever"..Notice how I rightly divided the word. At first I showed that the word of God "abideth forever", then I connected that to the believers who let the word abide in them and who continue in the word and by doing so they abide in eternal life and "abideth for ever" as well.

There is always an "if ye continue" or if ye abide" , or "if" ye overcome etc etc.

Here is my words again . I suggest you re read it slowly again and consider what is said

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Second point, as men can fail of Gods grace but God's grace never fails. Similar Jesus who is eternal life never perishes and those who abide in him will never perish also. He is the word that "abideth for ever" and those who continue in his word through faith and do the will of God "will abide forever" also. But believers can fail and perish if they abide not , or remain not in Christ as chapter 15 shows.

"23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."(1 Peter 1:23 KJV) the word of God never perishes.

John 8:31
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (if we as believers continue in his word we will never perish either and be his disciples.

1 John 2:14,17 KJV
"... I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one....And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever....
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life."
[This shows that he that abides in the word and continues in it and lets the word abide in them and remain and who doeth the will of God and shall never perish and have eternal life, forever John said they "abideth forever"...IF they continue and abide and overcome through the power of the Spirit. (I added a bit more from 1 John 2)

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[FreeGrace2]

No unbeliever is in the grace of salvation in Christ, the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared unto all men, but not all men are in it only believers.

You lost me after the "but". I think you're misunderstanding the verse.

It clearly says that God's grace has appeared to EVERYONE (not just believers).
"For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people."

It should be clear that 'offering salvation to everyone' isn't just for believers.

It clearly says that salvation is for everyone. That is God's grace.

And so to fail of the grace of God is only a warning for believers.

I agree.

But you miss my point as you often do and go off on a tangent. I said we are saved by grace if a man fails of the grace or falls from grace he fails or falls from salvation.

I didn't miss your point. I not only disagreed with it, I corrected it.

Paul warned some that they were moved away from God who called them INTO the grace of Christ unto another gospel (Galatians 1)

Sad but true. Where, where is his warning of loss of salvation.

No you totally missed what i was showing I will post it again. Notice that the word abides forever and never perishes we could say. And those who are continuing in the word also abide forever and are Jesus disciples, and John says to Let the word abide in them and remain and if they do so they will continue in the Son and in the father and have eternal life promised.

I explained 1 Pet 1:23 thoroughly. I can't even follow your paragraph here. It seems you've totally misunderstood what I wrote. Sad.

There is always an "if ye continue" or if ye abide" , or "if" ye overcome etc etc.

And yet, not a one of the verses include salvation.

"23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."(1 Peter 1:23 KJV) the word of God never perishes.

Go back and read what I posted. I don't need to repeat myself. You are STILL misreading the verse. The Word of God that "lives and abides forever" is what makes the believer "born again". And because we have been born again by the Word of God, which lives and abides FOREVER, the regenerated (born again) believer ALSO LIVES AND ABIDES FOREVER. It is clear as crystal.

John 8:31
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (if we as believers continue in his word we will never perish either and be his disciples.

Stop it. This is about being followers, not staying saved.

 

[LoveofTruth]

All you did was to grossly misunderstand what Jesus about the second soil.

that response says nothing. You have given no evidence to disprove what i showed from Luke 8. Clearly to believe means to be saved and have eternal life as i showed clearly

First, you must be kidding.

Not kidding at all, It totally shatters OSAS. It shows clearly that a person can believe and be saved for a while and then fall away from that salvation. Jesus said any who hear and receive his word will be saved and have eternal life. I showed the scriptures already . And we read that the second heart heard the word and received it and was believing for a whole and so saved for a while as jesus already told us in the first soil, that to believe the word is to be saved. You have no argument against this but simply say I am wrong etc. Just as your argument failed about Judas and you simply tried to go off into another argument.
I remind you again of Jesus words

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In Luke the second heart heard the word and received the word with joy and believed. So they had passed from death unto life, for a while...then they fell away.

"13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe,[here we see that the ones with this heart receive the word and believe for a while. That CLEARLY means they were SAVED for a while. We already saw that if the ones on the previous ground had believed they would be saved. These ones believed and were saved. But they only "

[here we see that they received the word ...clearly they were saved and had eternal life and were passed from death unto life as Jesus said in John 5:24. But they believed not and fell away. They only believed for a while. Showing they only had eternal life for a while. They only walked with Jesus Christ in their heart for a while.

Second, I wouldn't advise describing what Jesus, Paul and Peter taught as a heresy.

Jesus, Peter and Paul all taught what I teach. I hear them and believe their words and speak the same truths.

Finally, I already KNOW that believing is directly connected to salvation. But since the Bible also uses the aorist (past) tense for believe, there is NO TEACHING that one must continue to believe in order to be or stay saved.

Yes there are verses as i have shown that we must abide ( remain and continue in Greek) and if we continue in the faith and endure unto the end to be saved and overcome to the end to be saved.

Then He said He gives them eternal life and they SHALL NEVER PERISH. But for some unknown reason, you're not believing that.

I do believe that because the word abideth forever, and if we continue in his word and Let the wod of God abide in us and do the will of the Father as we walk and live in the Spirit we will abide forever also. It is only as God dwells in us that we have that eternal life in us. Jesus Christ is that eternal life. But if we hate our brother and say we are still Once saved always saved we lie and do not the truth and the truth is not in us. Eternal life in no longer in that person that hates his brother. John says this in 1 John 3;15 that the man who hateth his brother does not have eternal life abiding (or remaining, or continuing) in him. So if someone doesn't abide in Christ and hi word, then they do not remain in him or he in them. But you see these type of verses and the best you come up with is that Jesus must have been lying then. That is in your understanding. Jesus did not say one verse. All the text that he warns believers of not abiding or continuing in his word are also connected to that verse.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Sad but true. Where, where is his warning of loss of salvation.

Let’s look at the warnings and danger of losing salvation and the loss of salvation if they remained in that state in Galatians as I was referring to verses in Galatians

“ Galatians 1 - 6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:.., 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

Clearly some of these believers who had received the Spirit by the hearing of faith (Galatians 3:2,3) has been removed from God and from the grace of Christ unto another gospel and Paul says if they do so or if they preach such a gospel they are accursed.

The word “accursed” means “excommunicated“ and as we read further Galatians Paul she’s how serious this is.

We read,

Galatians 3 - 1. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2. This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3. Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4. Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.”
Paul called them “foolish” and bewitched and that they were not obeying the truth. He is speaking to those who once believed and heard the word and received the Spirit. So they were in salvation and had Christ formed in them at one time.

But he ask them has all this been in vain have they suffered so many things in vain or for nothing. Was thier faith empty?

They were believing another gospel and accursed if they did so.

Then Paul says to the ones who were removed from God and the grace of Christ

Galatians 4 - 11. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain....”

Unless you have believed for nothing and are empty lost accursed.

“ 16. Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”

That is how some saw Paul in thier darkness and carnal accursed state where they had fallen from grace and been removed from God

“19. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, 20. I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.”

They had to repent and do the first works again and be. Born again AGAIN as the text reads. Paul said he stood in doubt of them. Showing that they were not OSAS.

Paul was definitely not a OSAS preacher here. Do you tell believers who are saved still that you stand in doubt of them and that they are vain and empty and that they have fallen from grace and in bondage?

We read in further

Galatians 5 - 2. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

The profit Christ has for us is eternal life and hope and all spiritual blessing in him. Without Jesus Christ we can do nothing. To have Christ profit us nothing is to be in a lost condition is to be without him and removed from him.

“3. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 7. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8. This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. “

They went back under the law and the curse of the law and Christ had become of no effect unto them. They had fallen from grace. And we know that believers are saved by grace and so to fall from grace is to fall from salvation it is very clear at to the. Unbiased reader .

Then Paul warms them further

” Galatians 5 - 15. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh. 17. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21. Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Here he warns them also of not walking after the flesh and to not bite and devour one another and his warning to these who once received the Spirit by the hearing of faith was , that if they do such things they shall not inherit the kingdom of God. In other words they will be lost forever if they die in that state. And there will be no promise for them of a future inheritance that perished not.

Remember Paul is writing to those who once received the Spirit by the hearing of faith and who went back internet bondage and fell from grace and under the law and were removed from God and the grace of Christ and had fallen from grace

 

[EmSw]

It's really difficult to correct the views of one who is so confused.

All.MESSED.UP.
VERY.CONFUSED.

Thank you God that I am not all messed up and confused as this man is. I am sure a beacon of not being confused. You absolutely made a winner when you made me; just look at all these confused people here who do not understand like I do. And I am so glad I can't brag, because I am free from works. Again, thank you,

free gracer numero dos

 

[EmSw]

Yes there are verses as i have shown that we must abide ( remain and continue in Greek) and if we continue in the faith and endure unto the end to be saved and overcome to the end to be saved.

That word 'endure' has got to give OSAS enthusiasts a painful rash. Once they explain away what 'endures' means, the word 'end' will come up to bite them.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

One thing we see for sure, is that 'shall be saved' is future, and that comes once one has endured to the end.

 

[LoveofTruth]

That word 'endure' has got to give OSAS enthusiasts a painful rash. Once they explain away what 'endures' means, the word 'end' will come up to bite them.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

One thing we see for sure, is that 'shall be saved' is future, and that comes once one has endured to the end.

Yes they usually avoid it or try to down play it

And even though we are saved as we abide in Christ we are being saved and shall be saved as we endure to the end and overcome to the end

 

[LoveofTruth]

.

 

[LoveofTruth]

That word 'endure' has got to give OSAS enthusiasts a painful rash. Once they explain away what 'endures' means, the word 'end' will come up to bite them.

Yes and the word "edureth " means to remain, perservere, and there's that word again to "abide".

 

[FreeGrace2]

that response says nothing. You have given no evidence to disprove what i showed from Luke 8. Clearly to believe means to be saved and have eternal life as i showed clearly

I have ALREADY agreed that to believe means to be saved and have eternal life. I have, as you have, aready shown that clearly.

What we still disagree on is about if one ceases to believe, they cease to be saved. You've NOT shown any evidence for that at all, and Luke 8:13 doesn't give you any evidence.

In fact, I still wonder why you continue believing that ceasing to believe means loss of salvation when Jesus did NOT give any such conditions for those He gives eternal life.

He went from giving eternal life to recipients never perishing.

So you don't have ANY evidence for your view.

Not kidding at all, It totally shatters OSAS. It shows clearly that a person can believe and be saved for a while and then fall away from that salvation.

It doesn't show that. But you have to ignore Jesus' statement about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life, which excluded ANY conditions on recipients of eternal life.

I don't ignore Jesus' statement.

Jesus said any who hear and receive his word will be saved and have eternal life. I showed the scriptures already .

Yes, sir. And He IMMEDIATELY added, with NO CONDITIONS, that they shall never perish. Jn 10:28

And we read that the second heart heard the word and received it and was believing for a whole and so saved for a while as jesus already told us in the first soil, that to believe the word is to be saved.

You continue to push the false narrative that to cease believing is to cease to be saved, yet without ANY verse to support your false narrative.

You have no argument against this but simply say I am wrong etc.

Where is your evidence that says salvation is lost if one ceases to believe? Nowhere.

It is your view that has no argument.

In fact, John 10:28 REFUTES your view totally.

Just as your argument failed about Judas and you simply tried to go off into another argument.

No, I showed where Jesus had to correct Peter's comments in John 6, to show that Judas was a devil. Meaning he never believed. Like the disciples who had left in v.64.

I remind you again of Jesus words

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In Luke the second heart heard the word and received the word with joy and believed. So they had passed from death unto life, for a while...then they fell away.

No need to remind me of this wonderful verse. It shatters your OSNAS view completely.

It says the same thing as John 10:28.

1. those who believe HAVE (possess) eternal life
2. they WILL NOT come into condemnation that means to "not perish"
3. they HAVE PASSED from (spiritual) death to (spiritual) life.

Who gives believers eternal life? Jesus Himself. He said "I give them eternal life" in John 10:28.

What is the direct result of receiving eternal life? Never perishing. John 10:28

"13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe,[here we see that the ones with this heart receive the word and believe for a while. That CLEARLY means they were SAVED for a while.

No, it means they were saved. And from John 5:24, they WILL NOT come into condemnation, because they HAVE PASSED from death to life.

Yes there are verses as i have shown that we must abide ( remain and continue in Greek) and if we continue in the faith and endure unto the end to be saved and overcome to the end to be saved.

Actually, you've had to conflate verses from different contexts in order to "support" your claim. There are NO verses that teach one must abide and continue in the faith to be saved.

In fact, there are many verses that speak of salvation in the PRESENT TENSE on the basis of believing. So, the notion that "enduring to the end" in order to be saved is shattered by that fact.

We are saved IMMEDIATELY when we believe. That's also when we receive eternal life.

So John 10:28 is a promise for believers from WHEN they believed that they will never perish.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked:
"Where, where is his warning of loss of salvation."

Let’s look at the warnings and danger of losing salvation and the loss of salvation if they remained in that state in Galatians as I was referring to verses in Galatians

“ Galatians 1 - 6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:.., 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

Nothing here about losing salvation. But anyone who preaches another gospel is accursed.

Clearly some of these believers who had received the Spirit by the hearing of faith (Galatians 3:2,3) has been removed from God and from the grace of Christ unto another gospel and Paul says if they do so or if they preach such a gospel they are accursed.

Please read the passage again. It's those who PREACH another gospel are accursed.

btw, Paul didn't say such preachers ARE accursed. He said "let them be accursed". Does Paul have the power to accurse people? No. He is expressing his opinion as to their condition.

The word “accursed” means “excommunicated“ and as we read further Galatians Paul she’s how serious this is.

Please show me specifically where Paul said that "excommunication" equals loss of salvation.

We read,

Galatians 3 - 1. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2. This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3. Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4. Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.”
Paul called them “foolish” and bewitched and that they were not obeying the truth. He is speaking to those who once believed and heard the word and received the Spirit. So they were in salvation and had Christ formed in them at one time.

So far, nothing about losing salvation.

But he ask them has all this been in vain have they suffered so many things in vain or for nothing. Was thier faith empty?

He didn't ask if their faith was "empty". You're editorializing.

They were believing another gospel and accursed if they did so.

First, it was to preachers of another gospel (non-grace) that were excommunicated.
Second, it seems you don't understand the meaning of being excommunicated. It doesn't mean "loss of salvation". It means to be excluded from the group. Nothing more.

Then Paul says to the ones who were removed from God and the grace of Christ

Sadly, you still don't understand or reject the principle of fellowship and blessings. To be "removed from the grace of Christ" is to be under God's disciplined and loss of blessings.

Galatians 4 - 11. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain....”

Unless you have believed for nothing and are empty lost accursed.

One's personal opinions are excluded (excommunicated) from Scriptural truth.

“ 16. Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”

That is how some saw Paul in thier darkness and carnal accursed state where they had fallen from grace and been removed from God

Nope. They HAD NOT been "removed from God".

“19. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, 20. I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.”

They had to repent and do the first works again and be. Born again AGAIN as the text reads. Paul said he stood in doubt of them. Showing that they were not OSAS.

Not even close to what Paul SAID.

First, this does NOT teach to be "born again" AGAIN, as you opine.

That isn't even possible. How does one get "born again" again?

The phrase "until Christ be formed in you" is a reference to the biblical command to become "Christ-like", which all believers are supposed to do. You know, mimic the family resemblance.

The phrase "travail in birth again" cannot mean to be "born again" AGAIN, as you hope.

Paul was using a human experience to show his stress and anguish over these knuckleheaded believers who were returning back to the Law and its sacrifices instead of staying with grace.

Paul was definitely not a OSAS preacher here.

You wish.

Do you tell believers who are saved still that you stand in doubt of them and that they are vain and empty and that they have fallen from grace and in bondage?

If they did what the Galatians did, SURE I would.

We read in further

Galatians 5 - 2. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

The profit Christ has for us is eternal life and hope and all spiritual blessing in him.[/QOUTE]
Well, your timing is off. By quite a bit. He was writing to those who had ALREADY believed. So they ALREADY had been given eternal life. So "profit you nothing" cannot and does not mean "won't be given eternal life".

And it sure doesn't mean "I'll take back your eternal life if you screw up".

To "profit nothing" refers to loss of blessings in time and reward in eternity. 2 concepts that the OSNAS crowd either doesn't understand and rejects outright.

Without Jesus Christ we can do nothing.

Correct. We cannot bear fruit. John 15

To have Christ profit us nothing is to be in a lost condition is to be without him and removed from him.

This opinion is not found in Scripture.

“3. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 7. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8. This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. “

They went back under the law and the curse of the law and Christ had become of no effect unto them.

Again, the "no effect" has to do with blessings and fruit bearing.

They had fallen from grace.

Not a good place to be in, but NOT an unsaved state either.

And we know that believers are saved by grace and so to fall from grace is to fall from salvation it is very clear at to the. Unbiased reader .

This is leap of logic without any evidence from Scripture. You're just misreading the Word.

Then Paul warms them further

” Galatians 5 - 15. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh. 17. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21. Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Here he warns them also of not walking after the flesh and to not bite and devour one another and his warning to these who once received the Spirit by the hearing of faith was , that if they do such things they shall not inherit the kingdom of God. In other words they will be lost forever if they die in that state.

Nope. This passage is parallel to 2 other passages regarding inheritance in the kingdom.

Here, we read "shall not inherit the kingdom of God". We read the same words in 1 Cor 6. However, in Eph 5:5 we read this:
"For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

So, to "have no inheritance in the kingdom of God" means the SAME THING as "will not inherit the kingdom of God" in the other 2 parallel passages.

A person can be IN the kingdom but have NO inheritance there. That should be obvious.

In fact, Paul spoke of how NOT to have any inheritance in the kingdom in 2 Tim 2:12 -
"if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;"

To "endure" is to "continue in the faith", obviously. The result is an eternal reward, which is to "reign with Christ". That is an inheritance for enduring in the faith.

However, those who don't endure, but rather, deny Him, will be denied the reward of reigning with Christ.

This is a very reasonable and logical understanding of the verse.

Remember Paul is writing to those who once received the Spirit by the hearing of faith and who went back internet bondage and fell from grace and under the law and were removed from God and the grace of Christ and had fallen from grace

You erroneously opine that Paul wasn't OSAS.

Well, consider that he noted 3 gifts of God in Romans:
1. spiritual gifts in 1:11
2. justification in 3:24
3. eternal life in 6:23

Then, he said this about the gifts of God in 11:29 - the gifts of God are irrevocable.

So there you have it.

How do you refute all this?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thank you God that I am not all messed up and confused as this man is. I am sure a beacon of not being confused. You absolutely made a winner when you made me; just look at all these confused people here who do not understand like I do. And I am so glad I can't brag, because I am free from works. Again, thank you,

Here's something that really reveals your lack of understanding (or rejection of) Scripture.

You've frequently claimed that Jesus never spoke about the cross, or dying on a cross.

Well, consider this from Luke 24:
6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee:
7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ”
8 Then they remembered his words.

If that is not enough, consider this:
25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

v.25 refers directly to your own views about what the OT prophets wrote.
v.26 is a direct reference to dying on a cross by "these things".
v.27 clearly states that the OT prophets spoke of His sacrificial death on behalf of mankind.

So, because of your views, you are foolish and slow to believe what the OT teaches.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I asked:
"Where, where is his warning of loss of salvation."

Nothing here about losing salvation. But anyone who preaches another gospel is accursed.


Please read the passage again. It's those who PREACH another gospel are accursed.

btw, Paul didn't say such preachers ARE accursed. He said "let them be accursed". Does Paul have the power to accurse people? No. He is expressing his opinion as to their condition.


Please show me specifically where Paul said that "excommunication" equals loss of salvation.


So far, nothing about losing salvation.


He didn't ask if their faith was "empty". You're editorializing.


First, it was to preachers of another gospel (non-grace) that were excommunicated.
Second, it seems you don't understand the meaning of being excommunicated. It doesn't mean "loss of salvation". It means to be excluded from the group. Nothing more.


Sadly, you still don't understand or reject the principle of fellowship and blessings. To be "removed from the grace of Christ" is to be under God's disciplined and loss of blessings.


One's personal opinions are excluded (excommunicated) from Scriptural truth.


Nope. They HAD NOT been "removed from God".


Not even close to what Paul SAID.

First, this does NOT teach to be "born again" AGAIN, as you opine.

That isn't even possible. How does one get "born again" again?

The phrase "until Christ be formed in you" is a reference to the biblical command to become "Christ-like", which all believers are supposed to do. You know, mimic the family resemblance.

The phrase "travail in birth again" cannot mean to be "born again" AGAIN, as you hope.

Paul was using a human experience to show his stress and anguish over these knuckleheaded believers who were returning back to the Law and its sacrifices instead of staying with grace.


You wish.


If they did what the Galatians did, SURE I would.

I can refute all your words here but I am heading out to street ministry evangelism, church planting and fellowship. I hope to address your errors in the near future.

But a few quick ones

you said

"Nothing here about losing salvation. But anyone who preaches another gospel is accursed." (concerning verses in Galatians)

To have salvation a believer must have Jesus Christ formed in him and live and walk in the light and have him abide in them and they abide in him to continue in this salvation. If they walk on darkness they lie if they say they are still in salvation. And if they abide not they are cast forth separated from Christ , cut off and Christ shall profit them nothing they will have fallen away from grace which is to fall away from salvation. For by grace are we saved through faith.

But notice that Paul said that they were removed from God and the grace of Christ. We are only saved if we are in Christ and his grace. Also Paul says if anyone preaches another gospel let him be accursed. So the ones he wrote to may have been preaching the true gospel of 1 Cor 15:1-4, then went off and preached the false gospel and were lost and all those who were drawn away by their error and false gospel also will be lost accursed, fallen from grace removed from God and the grace of Christ and need to be born again again.

To be born again is another discussion, it is to be renewed after the image of Him that created us in righteousness and true holiness. So if a person walks in the light and righteousness of God and holiness he is born from above and in the Spirit. But if he walks in unrighteousness and says he is in the light he lies and does not the truth and Christ is not in him. If Jesus Christ is not in a person they are reprobate as 2 Cor 13:5 says.

Also if a person believes the gospel and continues to believe then and only then are they saved as Paul said. Notice the "IF" in this section.

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"(1 Cor 15:1-5 KJV)

Notice the "keep in memory" part and the "if" part which shows a condition to continue to be saved. If they did not keep the gospel in memory and continue to believe it they were empty, or vain. Just as paul had warded the ones in galatians who had began in the Spirit and then went after the flesh and the works of the law. They were in danger and lost salvation and had to have Christ formed in them again and turn from seeking to be justified by the law and instead come back to the true gospel and seek to be justified by Christ through faith and the grace and Spirit of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I can refute all your words here but I am heading out to street ministry evangelism, church planting and fellowship. I hope to address your errors in the near future.

We will the exact opposite; that I must again address your errors within this very post!!

But a few quick ones

you said

"Nothing here about losing salvation. But anyone who preaches another gospel is accursed." (concerning verses in Galatians)

To have salvation a believer must have Jesus Christ formed in him and live and walk in the light and have him abide in them and they abide in him to continue in this salvation.

What follows "to have salvation..." cannot be found in the Bible. All you've done here is to express your own opinion, but without having consulted God's Word.

Here is how to have salvation:
Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

So, the Bible says to 'have salvation' is to believe in Christ. Why do you add so much extra that the Bible doesn't?

 

[LoveofTruth]

We will the exact opposite; that I must again address your errors within this very post!!


What follows "to have salvation..." cannot be found in the Bible. All you've done here is to express your own opinion, but without having consulted God's Word.

Here is how to have salvation:
Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

So, the Bible says to 'have salvation' is to believe in Christ. Why do you add so much extra that the Bible doesn't?

I just added 1 Cor 15:1-4 which shows the saving gospel and how we are saved “if@ we keep in memory the gospel
But you seems to not acknowledge that and the conditions on it