WHY IS DANIEL 9:24-27 ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT PASSAGES IN SCRIPTURE ?

[Christian Gedge]

WHY IS DANIEL 9:24-27 ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT PASSAGES IN SCRIPTURE ?

Well, I certainly agree with you that Daniels passage is extremely significant. To add some related information to what you have been saying, Ive put a Youtube video on a separate thread. It explains the relationship of Daniels 70 weeks to the regular Sabbatic years of the Old Testament. Hope its of use.

The Old Testaments Secret

 

[The Times]

In 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 Paul reveals that Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God.

In the parable of the virgins from Matthew chapter 25 Christ reveals that those not ready at His return will be rejected.

Based on the passages above, nobody will be saved on the day of His Second Coming.

.

Brlliant brother!
The Cross of Christ must continue to make subjects/disciples of the World.

A manifested Messiah would undermine the Cross of salvation, setting himself up as the Abomination that makes Desolate, as deceived people abandon the one time daily sacrifice of Jesus Christ, that ended all sacrifices, once and for all.

The Cross must continue as the only path to make subjects and the Holy Spirit must be ever present as the seal of guareentee, guaranteeing what is to come, even onto redemption (Christ's brilliant coming).

When Jesus returns, the Cross would have run its course in making subjects of the world, that are written in the book of Life and then at his return, death (biological and spiritual) would be abolished/destroyed and then Jesus becomes the subject of the Father, where God will be all in all. This means that at his return the saved are no longer subject to the Crosd, but are become consecrated sons of God. So he must continue to reign through his Cross.

That is why the Apostle states.....

So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. (Hebrews 9:28)

So Christ returning will no longer be for bearing sins of those who still reject him, by rejecting his Cross, but is the final realisation of those waiting for his appearing, in the expectation that they will recieve their Crown of Eternal Life. Jesus comes to reward the saved and not to save the lost.

6For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing. (2 Timothy 4:6)

7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Just like the Days of Noah

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. (2 Peter 3:7-13)

At Christ's brilliant coming only the judged righteous will dwell in the new heaven and the new earth.

The main text that agrees with you @BABerean2 is the following.....

23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (2 Corinthians 15:23-28)

Christ only returns for the redeemed and awards them their Crown of Eternal Life and then biological and Spiritual death and hell cannot continue within the eternal millennium heavenly Kingdom of Christ, within his Father's house of many rooms/ dimensions.

 

[Davy]

This doesn't answer my question.

You do know that the romans sacrificed to their ensigns when they were destroying the temple, right?

That argument is irrelevant. The Dan.11:31 Scripture is about placing of the abomination idol in the sanctuary, thus polluting the sanctuary (temple).

The Romans didn't do that. The temple burned down before they could get possession of it.

 

[Davy]

Partially agree.

Part of the of parable of the wicked tenants, is as you state: the wicked tenants kill the servants sent by the vineyard owner, then they kill the son of the vineyard owner. This is about Jesus' coming in the flesh

I bet we can agree this is about the killing of the prophets and the crucifying of Jesus by the Jews.

But the other point of the parable is what happens to those who killed the vineyard owners son.

So, what happens to those Jews, that killed the vineyard owner's son, when the vineyard owner comes?
According to the pharisees, the vineyard owner 'ends' the wicked tenants and gives the vineyard to a new people:
Matthew 21:41
“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they declared, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his fruits in their seasons.”

Jesus then tells the pharisees, that God will take the kingdom of God away from them and give it to a new people.
Matthew 23:43
Therefore I tell YOU that the kingdom of God will be taken away from YOU and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

The pharisees then realize Jesus is talking about them:
Matthew 23:45
When the chief priests and Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew He was speaking about them.

Objectively, without changing any meaning, we can clearly see that Jesus is talking about the destruction of wicked tenants, who are the pharisees standing in front of him.

If you believe the coming of the kingdom of God means Jesus' future literal reign on earth in a political fashion, just as the unbelieving Jews did, then you completely misunderstand the kingdom of God, and any further debate will be futile.

But if you understand the kingdom of God is like a mustard seed, to which a nobleman went to a far away country to receive and then return, and that it is not of this world, then maybe a dialogue can begin.

Absolutely disagree, the vineyard is NOT the house of Israel and Judah, in this parable.

The only way I could agree, is if the by house of israel and judah being the vineyard, that when the wicked tenants are ended, the other nations are grafted in. In other words, the gentiles are grafted in to the seed of Abraham, while unbelieving Jews are cut off.

Well, that's where you need to go back and do more Bible study, for that vineyard represents the ten-tribed "house of Israel" like God showed in Isaiah 5:

Isa 5:7
7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah His pleasant plant: and He looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.
KJV

Might ought to study this more closely too:

Gen 35:10-12
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
KJV

That "company of nations" that Jacob's seed would become is not... about the nation state known as Israel in the middle east. Israel has only ever been known to be but one... nation.

 

[seventysevens]

Daniel 9:26 the prince is the Man of Lawlessness -AC

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

those pesky little things that you overlook is what is throwing your understanding off the rails

As in the word God - when you see God with Capital 'G' it refers the Holy Almighty God

small letter 'g' in god refers to a replacement of God with anything else except the
Holy Almighty God

The same thing applies to the word Prince in Daniel 9
the Dan 9:25 Capital letter Prince is Messiah Jesus

and in Daniel 9:26 the small letter 'p' prince is the replacement/ in place of/ anti christ

Dan 9 :26 the word Messiah is not present to describe the small letter 'p' 'prince' because it is NOT the messiah
...

 

[claninja]

That argument is irrelevant. The Dan.11:31 Scripture is about placing of the abomination idol in the sanctuary, thus polluting the sanctuary (temple).

The Romans didn't do that. The temple burned down before they could get possession of it.

Knowing history is very relevant.

Antiquities of the Jews, Chapter 5, part 3.

The Roman ensigns were idols ,and the Jews considered it unlawful for them to be near Jerusalem. So when a legion of romans was going to march through Judea on the way to war, the Jews came out and begged them to go around Judea because no idols should be allowed near the city. The legion conceded and went around Judea.

Now consider when Jesus states in luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.

While, there were abominations and civil wars going on inside the city of Jerusalem at the hands of the Jews themselves, the roman legions, carrying their idols, surrounded Jerusalem before it's complete destruction.

 

[jgr]

Daniel 9:26 the prince is the Man of Lawlessness -AC

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

those pesky little things that you overlook is what is throwing your understanding off the rails

As in the word God - when you see God with Capital 'G' it refers the Holy Almighty God

small letter 'g' in god refers to a replacement of God with anything else except the
Holy Almighty God

The same thing applies to the word Prince in Daniel 9
the Dan 9:25 Capital letter Prince is Messiah Jesus

and in Daniel 9:26 the small letter 'p' prince is the replacement/ in place of/ anti christ

Dan 9 :26 the word Messiah is not present to describe the small letter 'p' 'prince' because it is NOT the messiah
...

The capitalization is irrelevant. Jesus Christ the Messiah is described as both a prince and a Prince in Scripture.

"those pesky little things that you overlook is what is throwing your understanding off the rails"

Revelation 1:5
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

Daniel 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[seventysevens]

The capitalization is irrelevant.

Now you say that every bible translation is wrong just because you want to be right when you are wrong -
according to your false theory then when scripture spells god with small g it is irrelevant because you want it to mean Holy god -you don't understand the facts or truth
You are Wrong!

 

[jgr]

Now you say that every bible translation is wrong just because you want to be right when you are wrong -
according to your false theory then when scripture spells god with small g it is irrelevant because you want it to mean Holy god -you don't understand the facts or truth
You are Wrong!

Go argue with the KJV.

 

[claninja]

Well, that's where you need to go back and do more Bible study, for that vineyard represents the ten-tribed "house of Israel" like God showed in Isaiah 5:

In the parable of the wicked tenants, where does Jesus explain that the vineyard is the 10 tribes of Israel?

Isa 5:7
7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah His pleasant plant: and He looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.
KJV

In Isaiah 5, the vineyard is destroyed as a metaphor for God punishing Israel.

Where in the parable of the wicked tenants is the vineyard destroyed?

Because I can’t seem to find that part. I do see, however, where the wicked tenants are destroyed and the vineyard, which is not destroyed, is given to another people:

43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.
Matthew 21:43 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 21:43 - English Standard Version

And I do also see that the Pharisees realize that Jesus is talking about them:

When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.
Matthew 21:45 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 21:45 - English Standard Version

11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

I agree

12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
KJV

Fulfilled:

Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there.
Joshua 21:43 - Bible Gateway passage: Joshua 21:43 - English Standard Version

 

[claninja]

That "company of nations" that Jacob's seed would become is not... about the nation state known as Israel in the middle east. Israel has only ever been known to be but one... nation.

Fulfilled:

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:8-9,14 - Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 3:8-9, Galatians 3:14 - English Standard Version

even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
Romans 9:24 - Bible Gateway passage: Romans 9:24 - English Standard Version

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,
Romans 11:17 - Bible Gateway passage: Romans 11:17 - English Standard Version

 

[Davy]

Knowing history is very relevant.

Antiquities of the Jews, Chapter 5, part 3.

The Roman ensigns were idols ,and the Jews considered it unlawful for them to be near Jerusalem. So when a legion of romans was going to march through Judea on the way to war, the Jews came out and begged them to go around Judea because no idols should be allowed near the city. The legion conceded and went around Judea.

Now consider when Jesus states in luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.

While, there were abominations and civil wars going on inside the city of Jerusalem at the hands of the Jews themselves, the roman legions, carrying their idols, surrounded Jerusalem before it's complete destruction.

The Dan.9:27 and Dan.11:31 desolation as a blueprint for the future final Antichrist was Antiochus Epiphanes who polluted the santuary (temple) in 165 B.C. Jerusalem with a idol abomination to Zeus he placed inside the temple.

But the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. was by the Romans.

Those are the facts of history.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Those are the facts of history.

No.

The only history that can prove anything Biblically, is "Biblical History." That is to say, the history of the world as it is written in the Bible alone. Biblical history cannot be proven truth by the writings of the historian Josephus declaring what he believes took place in AD 70. Are we to suppose that God would leave the interpretation of His Holy Word concerning the mountains of flight to Josephus, an unbeliever? We are not to suppose that at all. Holy men of God who declared truth spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2nd Peter 1:21), Josephus did not. He was not divinely inspired to write anything, and secular writing (no matter how accurate we may think they are) cannot be looked upon as "proof" of prophecy fulfillment. The Holy Spirit, through God's word, proves prophecy.

For example, in Matthew 24, note the context isn't of God telling the Jews to flee to the mountains because the Romans were coming to persecute them. Rather it is that God's servants would be delivered up to be afflicted, and they shall be killed, and shall be hated of "all nations" for Christ's name's sake, and that many shall be offended because of Christ, and shall betray one another, and they shall hate one another. This has nothing to do with the Roman Invasion of Israel. It's a context of enduring in the face of tribulation for the believer, not of fleeing to the physical mountains when the Romans show up. It's a context that many false prophets would arise and would deceive many, and because iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold. What has this to do with Titus and the Roman sacking of Jerusalem? It is a context of he that shall endure this to the end, shall be saved. It's not about the Romans.

Did God tell Paul to flee to the mountains because the wicked were coming to beat him severely? Did God tell John to flee to the mountains because the wicked were coming to throw him into the prison on the Isle of Patmos? Did God tell Stephen to flee to the mountains because the people were coming to stone him to death? The only place God tells the church to flee from (collectively) is an abomination. And to flee as a bird that flees to the mountains for safety from the snare of the wicked. God is equating the children of God who dwell in this sinful house at this time of trial and tribulation, to (as birds) flee to their spiritual place of safety. "Consider wisely." It is the character of the saints who have their God as their hope, to fly to God's spiritual mountain for security in the time of great tribulation. By equating the bird fleeing to the mountain with those souls who trust in God and not physical mountains, temples, church building, the illustration God is painting is clear. It is the only place where we can trust that our souls will be secure from the wicked. Read it again.

Psalms 11:1-2

• "In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?
• For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart."

Psalms 72:3

• "The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness."

Psalms 124:7-8

• "Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped.
• Our help is in the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth."

Proverbs 6:5

• "Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the hunter, and as a bird from the hand of the fowler."

Psalms 55:6-9

• "And I said, Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
• Lo, then would I wander far off, and remain in the wilderness. Selah.
• I would hasten my escape from the windy storm and tempest.
• Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues: for I have seen violence and strife in the city."

As far as physical punishment, mental tribulation, and death, He told the disciples (and us) to expect it and endure it. God never taught that when we experience persecution, sufferings, or trial because of Christ, we should go hide in the physical mountains. That's not what being a Christian is about, anymore than being a Christian is about not being able to be "physically" hurt by scorpions and serpents. These are all spiritual metaphors for how we shall endure in time of great tribulation. And it's not by fleeing to physical mountains.

2nd Timothy 3:11-14

• "Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
• Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
• But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
• But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;"

In short, history doesn't prove anything about AD 70 and the Jews fleeing to the mountains. It's convenient in lieu of Scripture, but it doesn't prove anything Biblically, neither can it.

Moreover, how is what happened in AD 70 called an abomination in the Holy place of God, when the Jewish Temple was not the Holy Temple of God at that time that it could something in it to qualify as an abomination in "The Holy Place." It was neither Holy, nor the place of God in AD 70. When Christ said, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate," that meant that it's already Desolate and no longer the Holy house of God, no longer the Holy Temple, no longer the beloved city. It could not possibly qualify for being a Holy place where abominations stood where it shouldn't or "ought not" stand.

 

[Revealing Times]

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

And the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.(27)And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The scriptures had no chapters nor verses they were all ADDED. I say the way I divided the passages above is the way it should have been divided.

These people that go against the grain with this "CHRIST FULFILLS" these passages really just astound me to be honest, I don't even find it worthy to debate any longer. Its just kind of mind boggling.

 

[Revealing Times]

The Dan.9:27 and Dan.11:31 desolation as a blueprint for the future final Antichrist was Antiochus Epiphanes who polluted the santuary (temple) in 165 B.C. Jerusalem with a idol abomination to Zeus he placed inside the temple.

But the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. was by the Romans.

Those are the facts of history.

I truly think God gave us some super clues in Daniel that He wanted to keep a secret for the most part until the end times when He would reveal these things unto us, and those of us with Computers would have a far greater ability to study these things and to cross reference with Millions of on-line people and knowledge thus increased and riddles are figured out through debate and back and forth.

I mean I wrote a blog about Daniel 7 and 8 showing us where the Anti-Christ is born. It actually does. But now that I have studied Daniel 11 in depth, that chapter was a part of a three pronged riddle if you ask me.

The Riddle is this: IN SHORT:

Daniel 7 tells us the this Little Horn/Anti-Christ comes out of the Fourth Beast in the End Times.

Daniel 8 tells us he/AC also arises out of one of the Four Generals Kingdoms in the LATTER TIMES.

So I matched these two up, wrote a blog and showed how only GREECE FITS, because Greece is in the European Union, that is the RIDDLE.

But now I realize I should have included the lineage of chapter 11. It shows the whole lineage all the way to Antiochus Epiphanes who was a type of Little Horn and he also had a FALSE PROPHET in Jason who betrayed his own people and propped up Antiochus, his name was Yeshua and he changed it to Jason a Hellenized named (SHIVERS HERE). He betrayed the High Priest Onias III his brother who is said to have been a pious man.

So YES he comes out of Greece, which is in the European Union, but hes also out of the the Greek lineage and he has a TYPE that he will be like unto in Daniel 11:21-33.

We know the Kingdom will be the European Union (Fourth Beast) the Alexander Kingdom will be Macedonia (Greece) and the Grecian TYPE is Aniochus Epiphanes who also had a Jewish Prophet who betrayed his people.

Hes an Assyrian (Turk) born in Greece, who comes to power in the E.U.

 

[seventysevens]

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

And the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.(27)And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The scriptures had no chapters nor verses they were all ADDED. I say the way I divided the passages above is the way it should have been divided.

These people that go against the grain with this "CHRIST FULFILLS" these passages really just astound me to be honest, I don't even find it worthy to debate any longer. Its just kind of mind boggling.

I would agree - it is even Bizarre that they make such claim - since they Prefer to have the people of Jesus being 'they' that destroy the city and the sanctuary -- there is no rational level of reasoning for such an outlandish claim

Which is why I ask for them to give a well laid out description - a step by step - type of description of how that fits and fulfills the Great delusion that God sends- how it fits with details of why Jesus returns to Israel when he returns and many other factors - and the best most comprehensive detail they can provide is Jesus returns in flaming fire and destroys the earth -
they show they do not have a true understanding of the biblical text -
They have created their own version to suit their own desrires

 

[The Times]

The real Jesus will not return to earthly israel!

God uses the Cross as the only means to make subjects of the World. A manifested messiah cannot have any subjects, least the Cross (sacrifice) be removed.

A manifested earthly messiah cannot guarantee salvation, even unto redemption, for the function is that of the Holy Spirit. That is why Jesus said I must go in order for the Holy Spirit to come, if I do not go, then he cannot come.

John 3:5 is where the Cross and the Holy Spirit must be present until Christ returns.

When Christ returns, he becomes subject to the Father and all who were written in the book of Life would have come by carrying their cross, even onto death. Christ will continue to reign through his Cross, until he returns to destroy the final enemy death. Death and hell cannot continue in his millennium reign, within his Father's house and they must not be in his presence.

The new earth and new heaven being formed when he returns to dwell forever with those who are resurrected in their incorruptible sinless bodies.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28)

When we are presented before him as sinless beings, within our resurrected sinless bodies.

As the Apostle John said.....

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:2)

His return will coincide with the Judgement of the Dead and no death can be in his Holy presence, neither can mortal humans be procreating and dying around him.

Jesus comes to destroy this earthly fabric of time and space and to ushur in the eternal nexus of his Father's house of many rooms/ dimensions.

Do not wait in anticipation, in your flesh for a manifested messiah. You will see the real Jesus, once you biologically die and are raised in your incorruptible heavenly bodies (1 John 3:2).

 

[jgr]

These people that go against the grain with this "CHRIST FULFILLS" these passages really just astound me to be honest, I don't even find it worthy to debate any longer. Its just kind of mind boggling.

Are you referring to people that go against less than 200 years of modernist grain; with eighteen centuries of historical true Church orthodoxy?

If you're wondering Who said CHRIST FULFILLS:

He did.

Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

Paul confirms.

Acts 13
29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.

Now you know.

 

[Davy]

No.

The only history that can prove anything Biblically, is "Biblical History." That is to say, the history of the world as it is written in the Bible alone. Biblical history cannot be proven truth by the writings of the historian Josephus declaring what he believes took place in AD 70. Are we to suppose that God would leave the interpretation of His Holy Word concerning the mountains of flight to Josephus, an unbeliever? We are not to suppose that at all. Holy men of God who declared truth spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2nd Peter 1:21), Josephus did not. He was not divinely inspired to write anything, and secular writing (no matter how accurate we may think they are) cannot be looked upon as "proof" of prophecy fulfillment. The Holy Spirit, through God's word, proves prophecy.

For example, in Matthew 24, note the context isn't of God telling the Jews to flee to the mountains because the Romans were coming to persecute them. Rather it is that God's servants would be delivered up to be afflicted, and they shall be killed, and shall be hated of "all nations" for Christ's name's sake, and that many shall be offended because of Christ, and shall betray one another, and they shall hate one another. This has nothing to do with the Roman Invasion of Israel. It's a context of enduring in the face of tribulation for the believer, not of fleeing to the physical mountains when the Romans show up. It's a context that many false prophets would arise and would deceive many, and because iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold. What has this to do with Titus and the Roman sacking of Jerusalem? It is a context of he that shall endure this to the end, shall be saved. It's not about the Romans.

Did God tell Paul to flee to the mountains because the wicked were coming to beat him severely? Did God tell John to flee to the mountains because the wicked were coming to throw him into the prison on the Isle of Patmos? Did God tell Stephen to flee to the mountains because the people were coming to stone him to death? The only place God tells the church to flee from (collectively) is an abomination. And to flee as a bird that flees to the mountains for safety from the snare of the wicked. God is equating the children of God who dwell in this sinful house at this time of trial and tribulation, to (as birds) flee to their spiritual place of safety. "Consider wisely." It is the character of the saints who have their God as their hope, to fly to God's spiritual mountain for security in the time of great tribulation. By equating the bird fleeing to the mountain with those souls who trust in God and not physical mountains, temples, church building, the illustration God is painting is clear. It is the only place where we can trust that our souls will be secure from the wicked. Read it again.

Psalms 11:1-2

• "In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?
• For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart."

Psalms 72:3

• "The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness."

Psalms 124:7-8

• "Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped.
• Our help is in the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth."

Proverbs 6:5

• "Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the hunter, and as a bird from the hand of the fowler."

Psalms 55:6-9

• "And I said, Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
• Lo, then would I wander far off, and remain in the wilderness. Selah.
• I would hasten my escape from the windy storm and tempest.
• Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues: for I have seen violence and strife in the city."

As far as physical punishment, mental tribulation, and death, He told the disciples (and us) to expect it and endure it. God never taught that when we experience persecution, sufferings, or trial because of Christ, we should go hide in the physical mountains. That's not what being a Christian is about, anymore than being a Christian is about not being able to be "physically" hurt by scorpions and serpents. These are all spiritual metaphors for how we shall endure in time of great tribulation. And it's not by fleeing to physical mountains.

2nd Timothy 3:11-14

• "Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
• Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
• But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
• But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;"

In short, history doesn't prove anything about AD 70 and the Jews fleeing to the mountains. It's convenient in lieu of Scripture, but it doesn't prove anything Biblically, neither can it.

Moreover, how is what happened in AD 70 called an abomination in the Holy place of God, when the Jewish Temple was not the Holy Temple of God at that time that it could something in it to qualify as an abomination in "The Holy Place." It was neither Holy, nor the place of God in AD 70. When Christ said, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate," that meant that it's already Desolate and no longer the Holy house of God, no longer the Holy Temple, no longer the beloved city. It could not possibly qualify for being a Holy place where abominations stood where it shouldn't or "ought not" stand.

You need to argue history with Claninja then. The facts still are... the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D., and that's who the 2nd sentence of Dan.9:26 is pointing to, but even that still will have a final fulfillment with the final Antichrist that's to come at the very end of this present world.

 

[Davy]

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

And the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.(27)And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The scriptures had no chapters nor verses they were all ADDED. I say the way I divided the passages above is the way it should have been divided.

These people that go against the grain with this "CHRIST FULFILLS" these passages really just astound me to be honest, I don't even find it worthy to debate any longer. Its just kind of mind boggling.

Which changes nothing, because there are places in God's Word where a huge amount of time can exist between just two verses. Zechariah 9:9-10 is like this, one verse about Christ's 1st coming and the next verse about Christ's 2nd coming. So can you try to modify the actual written Scripture by deleting chapters with that? No, it wouldn't matter. Likewise with the Dan.9 events, there's a huge amount of time between the Romans destroying Jerusalem and the temple and the coming of the final Antichrist at the end of this world.