Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[seventysevens]

Please explain the difference between the soul and spirit. Because if they can be divided they are not the same thing.

Consider an egg , it is whole; but inside there is the white part that is not the same as the yolk but yet both are needed to make it a whole egg

 

[BABerean2]

I certainly will but I do not know why I need to.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54..........
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

I am sure that you have an explanation for those verse.

Where is the word "heaven" in the passage above?

Based on John 5:27-30, and Revelation 11:18, the resurrection of the dead occurs at the grave.

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[BABerean2]

When the the spirit (breath of life) joins with the body we become a living soul. Do you have any information to contradict this?

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

.

 

[Major1]

Where is the word "heaven" in the passage above?

Based on John 5:27-30, and Revelation 11:18, the resurrection of the dead occurs at the grave.

.

.

Obviously the dead will be raised from the grave and they will just walk around drinking coffee and talking about the last several super bowls.

Or you could read 1 Thess. 4:16-17 for context...........
"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the LORD in the air. And so we will be with the LORD forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words".

Of course the word heaven is not there either so I guess the resurrected saints will come up, and Jesus will come down and meet them in the air and they will just hang around there in the clouds. I just can not figure out what else those verses could possibly imply.

Where else would the resurrection of the dead take place at.......The Ford dealership,
the local football stadium or maybe the 1st Baptist church.

YES I agree. The Resurrection of the dead will take place at the grave!!!!

 

[keras]

Matthew 18:10 ........
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.

John 14:2.....................
In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you that where IAM YOU WILL BE ALSO?

Revelation 5:9-13 .............
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.” Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”

Revelation 21:4......
He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Revelation 22:1-5 ..........
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

1 Kings 8:30 ..........
And listen to the plea of your servant and of your people Israel, when they pray toward this place. And listen in heaven your dwelling place, and when you hear, forgive

1 Corinthians 2:7-9 ..........
But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written,”What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”

2 Corinthians 5:8.........
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Philippians 1:21-23 ...........
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

Philippians 3:20-21..............
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

John 3:16 ..........
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 ............
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 14:6 ...........
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 17:3 ...........
And this is eternal life,that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Acts 4:12 .............
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”


If you are so very wrong on your comment about heaven, why would you think that you are not just as wrong on your rejection of the Rapture????

I'm wrong?
NONE of your so called 'proof' quotes say anyone will go to live in heaven.

You are under a delusion over this issue. You see things that simply aren't there.
As I have pointed out before, God does tell us what He requires of His people and it surely isn't going up to relax in heaven!
We have work to do and your escapist ideas contradict God's Plans.

 

[Major1]

Can you point to where this passage says anything about heaven?

Where do YOU think that hundreds of million of resurrected people will go when they leave the grave.

In fact, where did the resurrected saints go who Jesus removed from Paradise and took with Him.

Ephesians 4:8-10........
"This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people." What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe."

You probably think that "When He ascended on HIGH" means to a very tall building.

How do YOU explain Moses and Elijah at the Mt. of Transfiguration?

Was it actually those two?
Did they appear from Heaven or did they stay at the Holiday Inn .....maybe the same one the was "ON HIGH", and just show up?

 

[Major1]

Can you point to where this passage says anything about heaven?

I can not even point you to the word Trinity either but the Holy Spirit teaches us that the implication is as effective as the reality of the Word.

 

[BABerean2]

Obviously the dead will be raised from the grave and they will just walk around drinking coffee and talking about the last several super bowls.

Or you could read 1 Thess. 4:16-17 for context...........
"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the LORD in the air. And so we will be with the LORD forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words".

Of course the word heaven is not there either so I guess the resurrected saints will come up, and Jesus will come down and meet them in the air and they will just hang around there in the clouds. I just can not figure out what else those verses could possibly imply.

Where else would the resurrection of the dead take place at.......The Ford dealership,
the local football stadium or maybe the 1st Baptist church.

YES I agree. The Resurrection of the dead will take place at the grave!!!!

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, and 2 Thessalonian chapter 1, He is returning in "flaming fire".
Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth, when He returns.
I am looking for the same thing.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
(In the verse above we find the living nations, and wrath, and the time of the judgment of the dead.)

.

 

[Dig4truth]

Consider an egg , it is whole; but inside there is the white part that is not the same as the yolk but yet both are needed to make it a whole egg

Good example. But the shell, white part and the yoke are all material things to make up the egg. If you can point to a source that says that God needed to breath on the egg to become a living thing then you may have a point. Otherwise it is not a good example for your position but mine.

 

[Dig4truth]

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That is a whole person. Why wouldn't anyone want to be preserved until the coming of Yeshua? Remove the body and the soul "sleeps". I trust that you can find places in the Scripture where the believers are said to be dead or "asleep". Remove the shell and the egg "dies". Remove our shell and we die.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

This speaks of the Holy Spirit. I trust you know that the Holy Spirit is our promise to be with our Messiah and not something that we have attained yet, otherwise it wouldn't be a promise but an actual event.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

.

I stated my point about this Scripture, what is yours?

 

[seventysevens]

Good example. But the shell, white part and the yoke are all material things to make up the egg. If you can point to a source that says that God needed to breath on the egg to become a living thing then you may have a point. Otherwise it is not a good example for your position but mine.

Dude you have a real issue here - you asked a question and you got an answer and other people agree - BUT now you present a pdf file that you found on the internet that you prefer to believe - So be happy with what you prefer to believe cause obviously you choose not to agree
The soul goes to be with God when the body dies IF you are a Christians
The analogy of the egg is the egg has a substance inside the shell it is One substance but comprised of both the white and the yellow
Take an atom - an atom is one unit - but it has to have a nucleus with positive and negative electrons or it can't exist
You ask questions then you want to push YOUR answers - if you want to believe falsely then go ahead , that is your free will to do so
It matters not

 

[BABerean2]

That is a whole person. Why wouldn't anyone want to be preserved until the coming of Yeshua? Remove the body and the soul "sleeps". I trust that you can find places in the Scripture where the believers are said to be dead or "asleep". Remove the shell and the egg "dies". Remove our shell and we die.





This speaks of the Holy Spirit. I trust you know that the Holy Spirit is our promise to be with our Messiah and not something that we have attained yet, otherwise it wouldn't be a promise but an actual event.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,





I stated my point about this Scripture, what is yours?

You are not the first person on this forum to promote the idea of "soul sleep".

The Holy Spirit indwells believers who come to faith in Christ.

Matthew 10:28 kills the doctrine of "soul sleep", by showing that the "body" and the "soul" are not the same thing.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Also, the "soul" and the "Holy Spirit" are not the same thing.


Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Act_8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Act_10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.



1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Those who are "born again" of the Spirit are not waiting on the Spirit to come later.
The verses above speak of the Spirit being a part of believers in the present tense.

.

 

[Dig4truth]

Where do YOU think that hundreds of million of resurrected people will go when they leave the grave.

In fact, where did the resurrected saints go who Jesus removed from Paradise and took with Him.

Ephesians 4:8-10........
"This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people." What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe."

You probably think that "When He ascended on HIGH" means to a very tall building.

How do YOU explain Moses and Elijah at the Mt. of Transfiguration?

Was it actually those two?
Did they appear from Heaven or did they stay at the Holiday Inn .....maybe the same one the was "ON HIGH", and just show up?

Leaving the childish remarks aside, those are good questions.

In Eph 4 there is a "therefore". It is always important to understand the "therefore". It is speaking about giving gifts to the saints. And it says that Yeshua "Himself" ascended.


The Bible clearly explains that, “Moses and Elijah" appeared to them” in a “vision”. They did not resurrect, or descend from heaven, nor were they called up from their graves. They appeared in a vision to the disciples.

Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

 

[Dig4truth]

I can not even point you to the word Trinity either but the Holy Spirit teaches us that the implication is as effective as the reality of the Word.

As is the word "computer" is not found in the Bible but it is a reality as well. The challange is to find the doctrine in the Bible that we go to heaven when we die. So far I have not seen any evidence in the scriptures.

 

[Dig4truth]

Dude you have a real issue here - you asked a question and you got an answer and other people agree - BUT now you present a pdf file that you found on the internet that you prefer to believe - So be happy with what you prefer to believe cause obviously you choose not to agree
The soul goes to be with God when the body dies IF you are a Christians
The analogy of the egg is the egg has a substance inside the shell it is One substance but comprised of both the white and the yellow
Take an atom - an atom is one unit - but it has to have a nucleus with positive and negative electrons or it can't exist
You ask questions then you want to push YOUR answers - if you want to believe falsely then go ahead , that is your free will to do so
It matters not

I prefer to believe the Bible and any publication that speaks truth about the scriptures gets my attention. It's not about dogma or affiliation, it's about truth.

You assert that the soul goes to be with God at death but the Scripture clearly says that the "spirit" returns to the Lord which gave it.

then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. Ecc 12:7

Look also at Psalms 146:4

You have stated that the soul goes to be with God but the scriptures say that the spirit goes to be with God. You do not have an issue with me but with the Scripture.

 

[Dig4truth]

You are not the first person on this forum to promote the idea of "soul sleep".
The Holy Spirit indwells believers who come to faith in Christ.
Matthew 10:28 kills the doctrine of "soul sleep", by showing that the "body" and the "soul" are not the same thing.
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Also, the "soul" and the "Holy Spirit" are not the same thing.

Excellent, you have understood some of what I was talking about like the body and soul are not the same thing and the Holy Spirit and the soul are not the same thing. Keep searching!

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Act_8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Act_10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Those who are "born again" of the Spirit are not waiting on the Spirit to come later.
The verses above speak of the Spirit being a part of believers in the present tense.

What do you mean by "born again"?

 

[seventysevens]

You have stated that the soul goes to be with God but the scriptures say that the spirit goes to be with God. You do not have an issue with me but with the Scripture.

Well duh!
That is exactly what I told you the first time!
geez dude why can't you understand?
There is no significant difference !
Your mind is not a physical thing neither is your emotions -they are part of the spirit that goes to be with God
Where is God - IN HEAVEN !!!!

If you want the deepest most comprehensive detailed explanation you need to look in the right place which is not a internet forum

 

[seventysevens]

What do you mean by "born again"?

John 3:3-21
To accept that you are a sinner and the wages of sin is the second death in the lake of fire
To repent and ask God for forgiveness of your sins and believe in your heart that God became a human man to come to earth for the purpose of dying on the cross and shed His Innocent blood because Jesus Is sinless and Jesus paid the price of the wages of sin for you and everyone that believes on Jesus and that Jesus Rose from death to life and if you accept Jesus gift of salvation and repent of your sins - which means to turn away from sinful desires and live for Jesus
Jesus will give you eternal life
Born-again in Spirit of the one true God
What does it mean to be a born again Christian?

 

[BABerean2]

What do you mean by "born again"?

What did He mean by being "born again", in the passage below?

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Those who have placed their faith in Christ have been "born again" of the Spirit of God.

.

 

[Dig4truth]

Well duh!
That is exactly what I told you the first time!
geez dude why can't you understand?
There is no significant difference !
Your mind is not a physical thing neither is your emotions -they are part of the spirit that goes to be with God
Where is God - IN HEAVEN !!!!

If you want the deepest most comprehensive detailed explanation you need to look in the right place which is not a internet forum

If you have trouble speaking to me as an adult then I can find other people who will.