Annihilationism Is Actually...Biblical

[Jordan Henshaw]

I was aware of that but that is between you and him. En passant so to speak I noticed while he was trying to prove one thing his proof text actually disproved one of his major arguing points.

You play chess?

 

[Jordan Henshaw]

May God bless your life.

24The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition,
if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

You know how your most important proof text, 1 Corinthians 15:22 seems to say that every last human will be saved? If you read it from a Universalist view it must also mean that every last human dies as well. But that isn't the case.

Enoch and Elijah never died. Neither will those who are still living for the rapture.

So that verse can't mean that every last person dies. Instead it must be speaking about our race as a general whole.

The same thing must then be true of the second half that talks about all being made alive.

 

[ClementofA]

This verse does not support UR but contradicts it. If salvation was a done deal why did the writer say "perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth? Instead of "God will certainly grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth?"

Each time the "Lord's bond-servant" does what 2 Tim.2:24-25 says, it is possible "God may grant them repentance". The verse puts no time limit on when one may repent or the number of opportunities Love Omnipotent will grant people to repent, either in this life or postmortem. Therefore it does not contradict UR (universalism) & is perfectly in harmony with it as taught elsewhere in the Scriptures. God has all eternity & unlimited love & opportunities for repentance & salvation for His created beings. It's mathematically impossible anyone could reject him forever.

2Tim.2:24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition,
if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

 

[ClementofA]

You know how your most important proof text, 1 Corinthians 15:22 seems to say that every last human will be saved? If you read it from a Universalist view it must also mean that every last human dies as well. But that isn't the case.

Enoch and Elijah never died. Neither will those who are still living for the rapture.

So that verse can't mean that every last person dies. Instead it must be speaking about our race as a general whole.

The same thing must then be true of the second half that talks about all being made alive.

Enoch, Elijah & the raptured are saved. Everyone who died in Adam will be made alive in Christ (1 Cor.15:22), e.g. Hitler, Stalin.

Neither does this include every person...

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment (Heb.9:27)

...or deny universalism.

 

[ClementofA]

Yeah, so you have still miserably failed to actually put it on a timeline. It doesn't seem as though you've even attempted to prove that verse 5 happens at a specific time. Because it mentions "the lamb that was slain" it must be talking about something occurring after the lake of fire, and by this same verse we also know that every single human that ever lived must certainly be conscious and must still exist?

What's missing from the context of Revelation 5:13 is the part where every creature in the universe is worshipping the Lamb of God Who takes away their sin, the sin of the world...and then suddenly Love Omnipotent pulls a lever & the lost are sucked down to some "hell" to be sadistically & pointlessly tortured before being endlessly obliterated out of existence by the unfeeling terminator machine whose short fuse & temper burst about the same time that His love expired like a carton of sour milk. Ditto for Phil.2:9-11; Isa.45:21-25; Col.1:20; Eph.1:10; John 1:29; 4:42; etc.

Do you know of a time before the lake of fire of Revelation 20 when the following occurs. If not before, then it must be fulfilled after people & angels are cast into the LOF.

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour,
and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

Does Revelation 5 say that everyone is saved? No.

Does it say that every creature on planet earth will praise God? Yes.

Does it say that birds and lizards will praise God? Pretty much.

If you can somehow twist your mind enough to use this verse to prove Universalism, you must also believe that God will "save" birds and lizards as well. Or else you must concede what it painfully obvious to everyone with a clear mind - that you don't have to be a saved Christian to praise God.

If you believe it refers to birds praising God, that's up to you. God spoke or prophesied through a donkey in the OT & Jesus said if these didn't praise the rocks would cry out (Lk.19:40).

In any case there are those creatures "under the earth", i.e. the wicked dead (e.g. Hitler) in their graves & demons in "hell" worshipping the Lamb. Which is a reference to the one who takes away the sin of the world (i.e. the cosmos, the universe, Jn.1:29).

The only other NT reference to "creature" in the context of salvation is this:

Js.1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 By his own choice, he gave us birth by the word of truth so that we would be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Those believers at that time were just the firstfruits of the harvest of salvation "of his creatures".

Isa.45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

"You forget that evangelicals claim that God is omnipotent, infinitely patient, and all-wise, but upon further consideration they actually believe God lacks all 3 qualities. Once people reject Him in this life, God doesn't know how to give them another chance after death. Why not? Because He is just not resourceful enough to give them this new opportunity. You see, Clement, when Jesus preaches to the wicked "spirits -in "prison" (= Hell--1 Peter 3:19; 4:6), Jesus never considered the possibility that some of them might respond, and so, He forgot to give the altar call! And when, Christ anticipates every knee on earth, in heaven, and in Hell bowing after death and confessing Him as Lord, He's sorta stuck with all those lost souls in heaven {Philippians 2:9-11). What Paul doesn't tell you here is that there is a trap door under all these lost souls. So after Jesus gets the worship and confession of His Lordship, He sneakily pulls the lever and all those lost souls fall screaming back to Hell."

1 Timothy 2:4 + God does all He desires = all will be saved?

 

[ClementofA]

Uh... Chuck? None of those verses talk about life after the lake of fire.

Are you never going to address this:

As in Adam all die

So you completely reject the idea that the burden of proof is on you? Are you out of your mind?

Why would the burden be on universalists to prove to others that Love Omnipotent isn't a sadistic monster. If such a horrible thing as endless punishment were true, Scripture from Genesis to Revelation should have expressed it unambiguously dozens of times. Yet there is nada. Nothing. Zilch.

How exactly do any of these verses "refute my theory"? Is it because of the words for eternal? Are you out of your mind? WE HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO this thread has barely touched on the subject. How does this passage reconcile with your theology:

Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

"Eternal" has ZERO bearing on this discussion because ALL THREE Greek words can be used to describe FINITE and INFINITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you honesty not yet grasp this incredibly simple concept?

Why would Scripture use an ambiguous word to describe the fate of the lost? If they were to be lost forever God would have made that clear. Such as "no end of death" or torments. The phrase "no end" is used of God's existence & the kingdom of God, but never of anyone's torments or punishment. That should settle this entire discussion right there.

 

[Der Alte]

You play chess?

A long time ago. Never was very good at it. Can't think far enough ahead.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

Each time the "Lord's bond-servant" does what 2 Tim.2:24-25 says, it is possible "God may grant them repentance". The verse puts no time limit on when one may repent or the number of opportunities Love Omnipotent will grant people to repent, either in this life or postmortem.

end

John 9:4
(4) As long as it is day, we [including Jesus] must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.​

Therefore it does not contradict UR (universalism) & is perfectly in harmony with it as taught elsewhere in the Scriptures. God has all eternity & unlimited love & opportunities for repentance & salvation for His created beings. It's mathematically impossible anyone could reject him forever.

Please show me one verse God or Jesus speaking which categorically states that even one person will be reconciled after death?
.....I posted this before but to my knowledge it has not been addressed. The recidivism rate for american prisoners is 66+%, out of every 100 prisoners more than 66 will return to prison. The corrective aspect of punishment is not correcting And many of them blame others for their fate; judges, juries, lawyers, witnesses etc. And some even seek retribution from those they blame.
.....Knowing that, what happens to that 66+% when God punishes them in fire for some period of time, for their actions here on earth? Will they be filled with warm fuzzies and love for God or will they revert to type?

2 Timothy 2:24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach,
patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition,
if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

What would the former pagan Christians, who had been taught about "hell," understand when Timothy read this letter to them? They did not have several Bibles on a laptop or tablet which they could whip out and look up all the verses which are usually thrown together to prove UR. In fact very few would even have a copy of this letter to refer to. Many of them could not even read. What would they understand when Timothy read "correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth."
.....If UR is true should there not be verses in all the letters to the widely dispersed churches, Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Thessalonika etc. telling all of them don't worry Love Omnipotent has no expiry date and will reach beyond the grave and save everyone no matter what.
.....As for the "Is God a monster" nonsense. Was God a monster when He destroyed all life on earth; men, women, young, old, children, infants except for Noah and his family? Was God a monster when He destroyed all the inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plain; men, women, young, old, children, infants except for Lot and his family? Was God a monster when He commanded Israel to go into certain cities and kill all the inhabitants; men, women, young, old, children, infants?

 

[DavidPT]

Here is something for the ECT camp to consider, though they probably won't.


Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.


Forgot about this verse. This is an argument I have made in the past. Almost forgot about it until I was reminded when I was looking at the above verse just recently, in regards to another discussion not having to do with the topic of this thread. Notice that it says this---and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Should one take that to mean forever without ceasing? What about this part? and is to come. If that is meaning the 2nd coming, wouldn't it be rather silly to still be saying this same phrase forever, after the 2nd coming has already occurred?

Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.


What about this passage? Does not one of the four beasts say, Come and see? But if one takes Revelation 4:8 to literally mean without ceasing, how was one of the beasts able to say Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come, while at the same time also saying---Come and see?

What's my point then?

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

When Revelation 4:8 indicates--and they rest not day and night--and that this apparently isn't meant to be understood as forever without ceasing, why should one assume, per Revelation 14:11---and they have no rest day nor night---that that literally has to mean forever without ceasing?

 

[Der Alte]

Here is something for the ECT camp to consider, though they probably won't.
Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Forgot about this verse. This is an argument I have made in the past. Almost forgot about it until I was reminded when I was looking at the above verse just recently, in regards to another discussion not having to do with the topic of this thread. Notice that it says this---and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Should one take that to mean forever without ceasing? What about this part? and is to come. If that is meaning the 2nd coming, wouldn't it be rather silly to still be saying this same phrase forever, after the 2nd coming has already occurred?
Revelation 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
What about this passage? Does not one of the four beasts say, Come and see? But if one takes Revelation 4:8 to literally mean without ceasing, how was one of the beasts able to say Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come, while at the same time also saying---Come and see?

The flaw in your logic is that the phrase "the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night," describes the 4 beasts and the phrase "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come." is what they were saying when John saw them. He didn't hang around heaven for ever and ever to hear them.

What's my point then?
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
When Revelation 4:8 indicates--and they rest not day and night--and that this apparently isn't meant to be understood as forever without ceasing, why should one assume, per Revelation 14:11---and they have no rest day nor night---that that literally has to mean forever without ceasing?

With the correct understanding of Rev 4:8 we can correctly understand Rev 14:11 to mean exactly what it says ":the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever and they have no rest day or night." The phrase "no rest day and night" emphasizes the eternal nature of the for ever and ever torment.

 

[ClementofA]

How exactly do any of these verses "refute my theory"? Is it because of the words for eternal? Are you out of your mind? WE HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Eternal" has ZERO bearing on this discussion because ALL THREE Greek words can be used to describe FINITE and INFINITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you honesty not yet grasp this incredibly simple concept?

Where is there any - definitive - use of AIDIOS in Scripture that doesn't mean "eternal"?

Until you can find that, AIDIOS is the superior word (vs AION/IOS) to express endlessness.

Since AIDIOS is never used of punishment, endless punishment is a myth.


12 points re forever and ever being finite:
For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

 

[ClementofA]

.....I posted this before but to my knowledge it has not been addressed. The recidivism rate for american prisoners is 66+%, out of every 100 prisoners more than 66 will return to prison. The corrective aspect of punishment is not correcting And many of them blame others for their fate; judges, juries, lawyers, witnesses etc. And some even seek retribution from those they blame.
.....Knowing that, what happens to that 66+% when God punishes them in fire for some period of time, for their actions here on earth? Will they be filled with warm fuzzies and love for God or will they revert to type?

It seems they will "come to Him" & "be ashamed" of themselves:

Isa.45:24 The people will declare, "The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength." And all who were angry with him will come to him and be ashamed.

And he that "comes to Him" shall find rest & He shall not cast out (Mt.11:28; Jn.6:37).

Isa.45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

 

[ClementofA]

John 9:4
(4) As long as it is day, we [including Jesus] must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.​

So no graveyard shift in those days? And...your point was...what?​

Please show me one verse God or Jesus speaking which categorically states that even one person will be reconciled after death?

How about a few dozen:

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

....

What would the former pagan Christians, who had been taught about "hell," understand when Timothy read this letter to them? They did not have several Bibles on a laptop or tablet which they could whip out and look up all the verses which are usually thrown together to prove UR. In fact very few would even have a copy of this letter to refer to. Many of them could not even read. What would they understand when Timothy read "correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth."

Certainly not endless sadistic tortures. If they were of a sound mind.

.....If UR is true should there not be verses in all the letters to the widely dispersed churches, Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Thessalonika etc. telling all of them don't worry Love Omnipotent has no expiry date and will reach beyond the grave and save everyone no matter what.

There's a balance in the Scriptures. It includes the teaching of universalism & warnings about a just (not unjust sadistic) "hell".

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

.....As for the "Is God a monster" nonsense. Was God a monster when He destroyed all life on earth; men, women, young, old, children, infants except for Noah and his family? Was God a monster when He destroyed all the inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plain; men, women, young, old, children, infants except for Lot and his family? Was God a monster when He commanded Israel to go into certain cities and kill all the inhabitants; men, women, young, old, children, infants?

No, almost everyone suffers and dies. Paul spoke of his sufferings as light & momentary. How do yours compare to his? How do light, momentary sufferings compare to endless sadistic tortures in hell? That's a long time. Even a trillion X trillion X trillion millenniums is nothing next to an eternity of sufferings. Unbelievers consider that insane & it has driven many Christians to the nut house where they lost their minds.

 

[Jordan Henshaw]

He didn't hang around heaven for ever and ever to hear them.

Then how could he know it lasted for trillions of years?

Hmmm.

 

[Jordan Henshaw]

No, almost everyone suffers and dies. Paul spoke of his sufferings as light & momentary. How do yours compare to his? How do light, momentary sufferings compare to endless sadistic tortures in hell? That's a long time. Even a trillion X trillion X trillion millenniums is nothing next to an eternity of sufferings. Unbelievers consider that insane & it has driven many Christians to the nut house where they lost their minds.

Take it from me then, an Annihilationist:

If God is a monster for killing people in Hell,

"was God a monster when He destroyed all life on earth; men, women, young, old, children, infants except for Noah and his family? Was God a monster when He destroyed all the inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plain; men, women, young, old, children, infants except for Lot and his family? Was God a monster when He commanded Israel to go into certain cities and kill all the inhabitants; men, women, young, old, children, infants?"

How about a few dozen:

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

I don't see any verses stating that anyone will be reconciled after death. Not one. Sorry. How about a verse that says something like,

"After the resurrection, some will see God and will be saved."

"Once their sin has been burned up and they have repented from their ways, they will come out of the lake of fire and will be redeemed."

"The punishment for sin is torture in the lake of fire. Those cast there will be punished for their sins before they are redeemed."

"Every man will be saved, whether he repents on earth or in hell."

Is it not reasonable to wonder why none of these verses or anything like them are found in scripture?

"For as in Adam all die..." - this is a LIE if it means every last human will die - ask Elijah and the

people who are still around for the second coming.

"...so in Christ all will be made alive" - why should we interpret this is "every last human" if we obviously cannot do so for the first?

Where is there any - definitive - use of AIDIOS in Scripture that doesn't mean "eternal"?

Until you can find that, AIDIOS is the superior word (vs AION/IOS) to express endlessness.

Since AIDIOS is never used of punishment, endless punishment is a myth.

I am genuinely saddened by this.

Where is there a verse that uses aidiois to express a finite period of time? Well, there are only TWO instances in the entire bible, so it is virtually impossible to know for sure what it means, because it is already such a rare word and we don't have many examples of it being used to tell us what it means and what it doesn't mean.

That being said, the verse that talks about "everlasting chains" definitely seems to be talking about chains that aren't literally eternal. However, it's not provable either way. It is quite ambiguous.

If you honestly don't understand why you can't use aidiois to prove Universalism, I strongly suggest you take a language class and educate yourself on proper hermeneutics. Like I said, I am genuinely saddened by this.

 

[Der Alte]

Then how could he know it lasted for trillions of years?
Hmmm.

As they say in Manila, "Walang problema." The same way John got the vision and knew all the other otherwise unknowable things.

 

[Der Alte]

begin

... Where is there a verse that uses aidiois to express a finite period of time? Well, there are only TWO instances in the entire bible, so it is virtually impossible to know for sure what it means, because it is already such a rare word and we don't have many examples of it being used to tell us what it means and what it doesn't mean.
That being said, the verse that talks about "everlasting chains" definitely seems to be talking about chains that aren't literally eternal. However, it's not provable either way. It is quite ambiguous.
If you honestly don't understand why you can't use aidiois to prove Universalism, I strongly suggest you take a language class and educate yourself on proper hermeneutics. Like I said, I am genuinely saddened by this.

end

I have posted this before. The definition of aidios from BAGD one of, if not, the most highly regarded Greek lexicons available. While this word only occurs twice in the NT there are other contemporary sources from which the meaning can be known. See e.g. blue highlights. "Aidios" means eternal.

ἀΐδιος, ον (ἀεί ‘always’; Hom. Hymns, Hes. et al.; ins; PSI 1422, 16; Wsd 7:26; 4 Macc 10:15; a favorite w. Philo: Jos., Ant. 4, 178; 17, 152; Just., A II, 11, 5; Tat. 14, 2; Ath.; Mel., P. 2f, 20) eternal ἡ ἀ. αὐτοῦ (of God) δύναμις Ro 1:20 (Zoroaster in Philo Bybl.: 790 Fgm. 4, 52 Jac. [Eus., PE 1, 10, 52]; 58th letter of Apollonius of Tyana [Philostrat. I 360, 29 K.]; SibOr 5, 66 θεὸς ἀ.). ζωή (Philo, Fug. 97; Tat.14, 2) IEph 19:3; δεσμοῖς ἀ. Jd 6 (PGM 4, 1466 πυλωρὲ κλείθρων ἀϊδίων).—DELG s.v. αἰών. M-M. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 24). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.​

 

[Jordan Henshaw]

As they say in Manila, "Walang problema." The same way John got the vision and knew all the other otherwise unknowable things.

An infinite period of time cannot be observed in a finite period of time.

But a dragon and a lake of fire can be.

 

[Der Alte]

So no graveyard shift in those days? And...your point was...what?​

How about a few dozen:
Certainly not endless sadistic tortures. If they were of a sound mind.

Once again since you did not answer this what would the former pagan Christians, who had been taught about "hell," understand when Timothy read 2 Tim.2:24-25 to them? They did not have several Bibles on a laptop or tablet which they could whip out and look up all the verses which are usually thrown together to prove UR. .....In fact very few would even have a copy of this letter to refer to. Many of them could not even read. What would they understand when Timothy read "correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth."
You posted a link. I don't do links they are not scripture.

There's a balance in the Scriptures. It includes the teaching of universalism & warnings about a just (not unjust sadistic) "hell".

Vague platitudes, which mere;ly show your biases, that don't really address anything

No, almost everyone suffers and dies. Paul spoke of his sufferings as light & momentary. How do yours compare to his? How do light, momentary sufferings compare to endless sadistic tortures in hell? That's a long time. Even a trillion X trillion X trillion millenniums is nothing next to an eternity of sufferings. Unbelievers consider that insane & it has driven many Christians to the nut house where they lost their minds

A whole lot of folderol but how does this address my question about how most, 66%+, criminals today act when they have been punished for their crimes and how these same people will react when God punishes them for their sins. Will those who hate and reject God now be filled with warm fuzzies and love when God punishes them in fire for any period of time?

 

[Der Alte]

An infinite period of time cannot be observed in a finite period of time.
But a dragon and a lake of fire can be.

John could not see God living and reigning for ever and ever but he said that God did live and reign for ever and ever. Those are some of the unknowable things God revealed to John.