LDS Mormon Requirements for Eternal Life

[Jane_Doe]

So it is policy, but not Doctrine? So it could be changed if the leadership desires to or there is Prophesy to change it?

For something that big nowadays, any change would have to be instituted via direct revelation from the Lord.

 

[tampasteve]

For something that big nowadays, any change would have to be instituted via direct revelation from the Lord.

That's reasonable, it would be a big change.

 

[Rescued One]

So it is policy, but not Doctrine? So it could be changed if the leadership desires to or there is Prophesy to change it?

When there were fewer temples in the U. S., as in the sixties, members had to save their money to travel to a temple. It can't take place just anywhere. The only exception that I've heard of was the ordinance taking place in the endowment house.

 

[Rescued One]

You say that an LDS marriage has to be in a Mormon Temple to be valid in heaven.

In the Old Testament, the Jews did not go to the Tabernacle or the Temple to get married. Is the LDS Temple supposed to be like the Old Testament Temple or is something completely different?

I haven't seen anything in writing, but Adam and Eve were married for eternity in he Garden of Eden according to Mormonism.

Extra biblical teachings:

As Michael, the archangel, Adam led the forces of God against the armies of Lucifer in the War in Heaven. Under the direction of Elohim and Jehovah, he assisted in the creation of the earth. After taking physical bodies, Adam and Eve brought mortality into being through partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. With the fall of our first parents came blood and posterity and probation and death, as well as the need for redemption through a Savior, a “last Adam.” (1 Cor. 15:45.) To Adam the gospel was first preached, and upon him the priesthood was first bestowed. From Adam and Eve the message of the gospel of salvation went forth to all the world. Following his death, which occurred almost a millennium after he entered mortality, Adam’s watch-care over his posterity continued. Revelations have come and angels have ministered under his direction. Priesthood has been conferred and keys delivered at his behest.
The Man Adam - ensign


Adam was the first man to hold the keys of the everlasting priesthood on earth. With regard to the presidency of that priesthood under Jesus Christ, “Father Adam stands at the head, so far as this world is concerned,” said President Wilford Woodruff.17 Adam and Eve were married, and since they were married by God when they were immortal beings, their marriage was eternal in nature. President Spencer W. Kimball wrote:

...“‘And I, God, said unto mine Only Begotten, which was with me from the beginning: Let us make man [not a separate man, but a complete man, which is husband and wife] in our image, after our likeness; and it was so’ (Moses 2:26). What a beautiful partnership! Adam and Eve were married for eternity by the Lord. Such a marriage extends beyond the grave. All peoples should call for this kind of marriage.”18
“‘And I, God, said unto mine Only Begotten, which was with me from the beginning: Let us make man [not a separate man, but a complete man, which is husband and wife] in our image, after our likeness; and it was so’ (Moses 2:26). What a beautiful partnership! Adam and Eve were married for eternity by the Lord. Such a marriage extends beyond the grave. All peoples should call for this kind of marriage.”18
“In the Beginning”: - ensign

You can also read that priesthood authority is needed to bestow the ordinance here in the Doctrine and Covenants:

Doctrine and Covenants 132

Section 132, Marriage: An Eternal Covenant

 

[Rescued One]

You can't have the actual ceremony performed anywhere except on earth. And you don't go immediately to judgment or the celestial kingdom. You have to be married in the temple. Celestial marriages can't be performed outside the temple. Any marriage performed outside the temple is until death. If a couple so desires and is found worthy they can have their non-temple marriage sealed in the temple. Sealings are also performed by proxy on earth for those who have died without knowing the Mormon religion.

This is correct information. It doesn't address the history of the endowment and celestial marriage.

 

[Rescued One]

Mormon Endowment House

 

[LDSsurvivor]

Typically an LDS person tithes on 10% of their income. If your income is $0, then 10% of that is $0. If there is finical strain, then that person talks to their bishop about things to work something out individually.

This is true, but I have been in one of these 'talks' where we were enquiring about reduced tithing for a year or two, and was told quite plainly to choose tithing over sending my very gifted child to a school in her best interests (it was a music school). I am ashamed to say I paid the tithing and my darling daughter missed out.

 

[Dale]

This is true, but I have been in one of these 'talks' where we were enquiring about reduced tithing for a year or two, and was told quite plainly to choose tithing over sending my very gifted child to a school in her best interests (it was a music school). I am ashamed to say I paid the tithing and my darling daughter missed out.

That is sad.

 

[LDSsurvivor]

That is sad.

I have left the LDS church and I'm doing my best to get my family out before even more damage is done to us in the name of 'keeping the covenants'

 

[Jane_Doe]

I have left the LDS church and I'm doing my best to get my family out before even more damage is done to us in the name of 'keeping the covenants'

LDSsurvivor, do you want your family to respect your walk with Christ and chosen faith? To celebrate your joy and not it as just a horrible thing?

May I suggest following the golden-rule: treat them as you would like to be treated. A person trying to push their faith only results in people pushing back. Denying a person's love of Christ or calling it "damaging" only results in them returning the same. Don't feed into that cycle: be the bigger person and LOVE your family AS THEY ARE, not as you wish them to be.

 

[LDSsurvivor]

LDSsurvivor, do you want your family to respect your walk with Christ and chosen faith? To celebrate your joy and not it as just a horrible thing?

May I suggest following the golden-rule: treat them as you would like to be treated. A person trying to push their faith only results in people pushing back. Denying a person's love of Christ or calling it "damaging" only results in them returning the same. Don't feed into that cycle: be the bigger person and LOVE your family AS THEY ARE, not as you wish them to be.

With all due respect, I will be trying to get my family out of the destructive religion they are in. I love my family for who they are, and I will do everything I can to save them. For example I know the bishop has been telling my husband to leave me, my husband had the decency to tell me about it. Apparently he needs a worthy wife for the celestial kingdom and if I'm breaking the terms of our marriage, then he is justified in divorcing me, for the sake of the children! He is not impressed with the church's attitude on this matter at all. He should not be being pressured by the bishop to divorce his wife. Its so wrong and doing nothing but giving my husband doubts about the LDS church

 

[Ironhold]

LDSsurvivor, do you want your family to respect your walk with Christ and chosen faith? To celebrate your joy and not it as just a horrible thing?

May I suggest following the golden-rule: treat them as you would like to be treated. A person trying to push their faith only results in people pushing back. Denying a person's love of Christ or calling it "damaging" only results in them returning the same. Don't feed into that cycle: be the bigger person and LOVE your family AS THEY ARE, not as you wish them to be.

Plus, the harder you push, the harder they're going to push back.

Unless my posts were deleted, I already showed you in your intro thread actual historical materials dealing with one issue you had. And your family & friends now have motivation to dive as deeply as possible into finding the answers to your other issues... which, I may add, *will* more likely than not happen if the know where and how to look.

I myself have seen people come back to the church when they've realized that the critics they relied upon lied to them (I actually helped someone come back, so...), and there are other such stories floating about as well.

If you're trying to force your family, it's not going to end well for anyone.

 

[LDSsurvivor]

Plus, the harder you push, the harder they're going to push back.

Unless my posts were deleted, I already showed you in your intro thread actual historical materials dealing with one issue you had. And your family & friends now have motivation to dive as deeply as possible into finding the answers to your other issues... which, I may add, *will* more likely than not happen if the know where and how to look.

I myself have seen people come back to the church when they've realized that the critics they relied upon lied to them (I actually helped someone come back, so...), and there are other such stories floating about as well.

If you're trying to force your family, it's not going to end well for anyone.

Im not forcing anyone, and the critics I got my information from was the LDS church itself, as well as fairmormon.
And the church is pushing my husband away by advising him to divorce me for leaving the church.

 

[Ironhold]

This is true, but I have been in one of these 'talks' where we were enquiring about reduced tithing for a year or two, and was told quite plainly to choose tithing over sending my very gifted child to a school in her best interests (it was a music school). I am ashamed to say I paid the tithing and my darling daughter missed out.

Red flag #1.

While it's possible for a member to in fact be declared "exempt", I'm pretty sure that such a conversation involves a much larger "we're broke" talk that also includes a conversation about church financial aid.

Bishops have the right to inquire about the personal finances of someone who's seeking church financial aid, both to ensure that the person has legitimate need,* and to determine the nature of the need, such as food assistance, the payment of one or more bills, or another such issue.

If there was a legit financial issue, then you should have been in line for church aid.

For a situation to play out as you say it thus comes off as suspicious.


*Back when I was a finance clerk, I ended up fielding a phone call from a non-member who called us up. Basically, he'd heard that we had welfare systems in place and he wanted his. The bishop who took the phone call went through the official steps of determining need, and dude made himself scarce. He was wanting what we had, no strings attached.

 

[Ironhold]

And the church is pushing my husband away by advising him to divorce me for leaving the church.

...Which is red flag #2.

Divorce is supposed to be a last resort according to the church.

If the bishop is pushing your husband to seek a divorce, then either

1. He's not fulfilling his duties by encouraging your family to stay together

2. Something in your relationship with your husband has become so legitimately toxic in your bishop's eyes that that even he doesn't see any positive solution to what's taking place that doesn't end in the two of you getting some distance between yourselves.

The fact that you're insistent upon forcing your family out with you may be a "noble" act from your angle, but if you're making a holy crusade of it then much of the damage you're talking about could well be self-inflicted, especially if it's displaced other matters that you and everyone else used to have in common.

 

[LDSsurvivor]

Red flag #1.

While it's possible for a member to in fact be declared "exempt", I'm pretty sure that such a conversation involves a much larger "we're broke" talk that also includes a conversation about church financial aid.

Bishops have the right to inquire about the personal finances of someone who's seeking church financial aid, both to ensure that the person has legitimate need,* and to determine the nature of the need, such as food assistance, the payment of one or more bills, or another such issue.

If there was a legit financial issue, then you should have been in line for church aid.

For a situation to play out as you say it thus comes off as suspicious.


*Back when I was a finance clerk, I ended up fielding a phone call from a non-member who called us up. Basically, he'd heard that we had welfare systems in place and he wanted his. The bishop who took the phone call went through the official steps of determining need, and dude made himself scarce. He was wanting what we had, no strings attached.

No offence but you weren't there, we were not in financial hardship, we just could not afford both the school fees and full tithing, so we wanted to pay a reduced tithe for the two years my daughter would have attended the school for. We were told we would not be granted the reduced tithe and to pay our full tithe or risk losing our temple recommend. To my shame we paid our tithing instead of helping our daughter achieve her full potential.

 

[LDSsurvivor]

...Which is red flag #2.

Divorce is supposed to be a last resort according to the church.

If the bishop is pushing your husband to seek a divorce, then either

1. He's not fulfilling his duties by encouraging your family to stay together

2. Something in your relationship with your husband has become so legitimately toxic in your bishop's eyes that that even he doesn't see any positive solution to what's taking place that doesn't end in the two of you getting some distance between yourselves.

The fact that you're insistent upon forcing your family out with you may be a "noble" act from your angle, but if you're making a holy crusade of it then much of the damage you're talking about could well be self-inflicted, especially if it's displaced other matters that you and everyone else used to have in common.

So your accusing me of lying now? The only thing in our marriage that is causing strain is me leaving the LDS church.

 

[Jane_Doe]

With all due respect, I will be trying to get my family out of the destructive religion they are in. I love my family for who they are, and I will do everything I can to save them.

*Shrug*
Obviously you're going to do what you're going to do, and that's your right. I was just sharing my experience from being a part of an interfaith family/marriage.

Apparently he needs a worthy wife for the celestial kingdom and if I'm breaking the terms of our marriage, then he is justified in divorcing me, for the sake of the children!

That is *NOT* LDS policy at all-- rather it's policy to encourage such partners to stay together.

Note: I'm not calling you a liar here or anything like that LDSsurvivor, just explaining what actual LDS policy is (if you want I can pull up an official reference on what I'm saying). I don't know if the bishop had his wires crossed, or if there was a communication glitch somewhere, but yeah... that's very contrary to official LDS policy.

 

[Ironhold]

we just could not afford both the school fees and full tithing,

From your bishop's perspective, you were asking him for something extra-ordinary, something likely far outside of normal practice. It's no wonder that he'd turn it down flat.

By way of comparison, back during the recession I was making as little as $200 / month. I'd been locked out of the field I trained for, and was having trouble getting work elsewhere. I never even *thought* of asking for any sort of tithing reduction or modification, since I knew that if I massaged my finances properly I could afford it with ease.

**

As for your second post, about a decade ago I found myself confronted by an individual who claimed to be a former member of the church. His story was that after a period of inactivity, his bishop tracked him down and excommunicated him to make an example out of him.

The official guidelines for excommunication policy, however, don't permit that. Individual bishops can't just ex people. If it happened as he said, there was a significant irregularity that could lead to the bishop himself being excommunicated. So I and a few others he was trying to confront all called him on it.

After several rounds of questioning, the truth came out. He'd been living in sin during the period of time he was inactive, and his mom found out. She told the bishop, who wrote him a letter. He tore the letter up and threw it away unread. Somehow, the bishop found out, and only then - when it seemed like he was in open defiance - began the procedure to have him ex'd.

This was not a one-off incident.

All too often, critics of the church at all levels who stake their claim on being ex-members are found to have been lying about the circumstances behind their leaving. This includes guys like Ed Decker (excommunicated for emotional abuse and multiple extra-marital affairs), Loftes Tryk (excommunicated upon conviction of a sex crime), and Grant Palmer (had in fact been in the dog house with CES for conduct unbecoming and abuse of his teaching position).

So if people are suspicious of your story, it's because they have encountered many a critic before you who hadn't been honest with the world.

 

[Jane_Doe]

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