LDS Mormon Requirements for Eternal Life

[tampasteve]

This is true, but I have been in one of these 'talks' where we were enquiring about reduced tithing for a year or two, and was told quite plainly to choose tithing over sending my very gifted child to a school in her best interests (it was a music school). I am ashamed to say I paid the tithing and my darling daughter missed out.

To be fair, this also happens in other churches as well. Members and parishioners are told to just tithe, God will provide. Tithe your 10% as well as your first fruits, etc. I believe in tithing, but not in coercion as this often seems.

 

[Ironhold]

To be fair, this also happens in other churches as well. Members and parishioners are told to just tithe, God will provide. Tithe your 10% as well as your first fruits, etc. I believe in tithing, but not in coercion as this often seems.

There *is* a mechanism in the protocol where someone can be declared "exempt", but from what I've seen it basically requires a discussion about economic hardship or another such issue that presents a major impediment to paying.

Just walking in and saying "Hi, we'd like to only pay a fraction for a while because we feel little so-and-so needs to go to this specific school" would be highly unusual to say the least and should generate more questions.

Remember - I was a finance clerk for my congregation, so I had to help balance the books and monitor what checks got cut. Those people who needed aid tended to get it and in a direct fashion such as having one of their bills get paid out of the congregation's budgets or authorization to draw materials from a designated storehouse.

 

[Jane_Doe]

My anti-Mormon Evangelical mother-in-law lives 500 miles away. She is visiting this weekend, which happens to be Easter. She always makes a big stink about religious things, like cornering my Baptist husband when I'm out of the room and saying "you need to make your wife a Christian!" (and then shutting up the minute I come back into the room). It is... suffice it to say her behavior causes her son to dread her visits and talking to her at all. Admittedly, I'm not particularly looking forward to having to deal with her shenanigans on Easter of all days.

My husband... he is so wise. During family good-night prayers tonight, he had a line "Dear God, please help us to remember that sometimes it's better to be loving than proving you're right." He... yeah, he is wise and gifted from God there.

 

[LDSsurvivor]

*Shrug*
Obviously you're going to do what you're going to do, and that's your right. I was just sharing my experience from being a part of an interfaith family/marriage.

That is *NOT* LDS policy at all-- rather it's policy to encourage such partners to stay together.

Note: I'm not calling you a liar here or anything like that LDSsurvivor, just explaining what actual LDS policy is (if you want I can pull up an official reference on what I'm saying). I don't know if the bishop had his wires crossed, or if there was a communication glitch somewhere, but yeah... that's very contrary to official LDS policy.

I know its not offical policy, I've been a member of the LDS church my entire life. I also know its pretty useless to try and argue 'offical policy' with a bishop who's going to do what he thinks is best anyway and twist it however he needs to suit the situation.

Im not making stuff up, Im not crazy, this is what happened to me and my family and there was nothing I could do about it and it was very wrong and not christ like at all. I am tired of well meaning members trying to make excuses for the things that should not have happened to me. There is no excuse for it

 

[Jane_Doe]

I know its not offical policy, I've been a member of the LDS church my entire life. I also know its pretty useless to try and argue 'offical policy' with a bishop who's going to do what he thinks is best anyway and twist it however he needs to suit the situation.

Im not making stuff up, Im not crazy, this is what happened to me and my family and there was nothing I could do about it and it was very wrong and not christ like at all. I am tired of well meaning members trying to make excuses for the things that should not have happened to me. There is no excuse for it

I think this is known, but just to be sure: I never said you're crazy (nor did I even think it). Neither am I making excuses for anybody's actions. I wish you all the the best on your walk with Christ.

 

[LDSsurvivor]

I think this is known, but just to be sure: I never said you're crazy (nor did I even think it). Neither am I making excuses for anybody's actions. I wish you all the the best on your walk with Christ.

Thank you

 

[Rescued One]

Doctrine and Covenants 64
23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

Nevertheless, that can't be taken literally.

D&C 64:23. “He That Is Tithed Shall Not Be Burned at His Coming”

Elder Rudger Clawson asked: “What does that mean? Does it mean that if a man will not pay his tithing, that the Lord is going to send a ball of fire down from heaven and burn him up? No; the Lord does not do that way. The Lord works on natural principles. This is what it means, if I read correctly: a man who ignores the express command of the Lord, by failing to pay his tithing, it means that the Spirit of the Lord will withdraw from him; it means that the power of the priesthood will withdraw from that man, if he continues in the spirit of neglect to do his duty. He will drift away into darkness, gradually but surely, until finally (mark you) he will lift up his eyes among the wicked. That is where he will finally land; and then when the destruction comes and when the burning comes he will be among the wicked and will be destroyed; while those who observe the law will be found among the righteous, and they will be preserved. There is a God in heaven, and He had promised to shield and protect them. I tell you there is a day of burning, a day of destruction coming upon the wicked. And where will we be? Will we be with the wicked, or with the righteous?” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1913, p. 59.)
Section 64, “Of You It Is Required to Forgive All Men”

However, Mormons don't teach annihilation, so the meaning still hasn't been explained.

 

[twin.spin]

I know its not offical policy, I've been a member of the LDS church my entire life. I also know its pretty useless to try and argue 'offical policy' with a bishop who's going to do what he thinks is best anyway and twist it however he needs to suit the situation.

Im not making stuff up, Im not crazy, this is what happened to me and my family and there was nothing I could do about it and it was very wrong and not christ like at all. I am tired of well meaning members trying to make excuses for the things that should not have happened to me. There is no excuse for it

I've been following this so-called "conversation" between you and Jane_Doe and Ironhold.
Do you wonder what their ultimate goal is on why they persist when they repeatedly ignore your polite "no thank you, please quit trying to push your faith on me" ?

Maybe it brings them great happiness to see you under the LDS yoke of walk to strive despite Jesus proclaiming "tetelestia !" from the cross.

tetelestia: In the Greek, It was a word frequently written across bills to mark them “paid in full.” With his exclamation, Jesus was assuring us he had fully paid our debt of sin.​

Your realization isn't because you're anti-Mormon ... it's because of Biblical Christianity.
The important point to see is that Jesus’ resurrection serves as undeniable proof that God had acquitted us of all charges! This is the point of Romans 4:25.

Jesus' proclamation of "tetelestia" from the cross is your receipt.
Clasp it tightly. Don’t ever forget it. Whenever doubts arise about your forgiveness, or others raise doubts about it, quickly look at your receipt. Easter is all the assurance you need that you are totally forgiven. Believe this wholeheartedly. Eagerly share it with others. It’s their receipt also. “He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2).

The words of Jesus is Biblical Christianity Easter's message when he said to these women:

"Your faith has saved you, go in peace." Luke 7:50

Jesus said unto her,
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26​

Yes ... Jesus reveals that being right is loving (John 11:25-26 \ Luke 7:50)

​

 

[Ironhold]

Do you wonder what their ultimate goal is on why they persist when they repeatedly ignore your polite "no thank you, please quit trying to push your faith on me" ?

Our ultimate goal is to understand just what supposedly happened and why.

As we've mentioned elsewhere, things aren't adding up.

Your realization isn't because you're anti-Mormon ...

Given the stated efforts to "save" everyone they come across, we're wondering if that's not how the people who are "distancing themselves" happen to be feeling.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Our ultimate goal is to understand just what supposedly happened and why.

As we've mentioned elsewhere, things aren't adding up.



Given the stated efforts to "save" everyone they come across, we're wondering if that's not how the people who are "distancing themselves" happen to be feeling.

You don't understand plain English? LDSSurvivor has told you what happened. You're projecting your lds experience onto her situation. That's why it doesn't add up for you. And in doing so, you are discounting her experiences.

By the way, tithing/not tithing does not have eternal consequences as the lds would like to force their members to believe. There's no where in the Bible that states such a thing. It's a cultish tatic to enforce such a bogus rule.

 

[LDSsurvivor]

You don't understand plain English? LDSSurvivor has told you what happened. You're projecting your lds experience onto her situation. That's why it doesn't add up for you. And in doing so, you are discounting her experiences.

By the way, tithing/not tithing does not have eternal consequences as the lds would like to force their members to believe. There's no where in the Bible that states such a thing. It's a cultish tatic to enforce such a bogus rule.

This is exactly how I feel, my experience may not be theirs but that doesn't mean it didn't happen and isn't valid. If more LDS people actually had the guts to say 'yes that's horrible, yes the church was wrong to treat you like that, we as members won't put up with that', instead of coming up with excuses for why the church might have treated you that way (and basically making it your fault), then the LDS church wouldn't lose so many members.

And I completely agree with you on the tithing thing. I have no problem giving money to a church (I'm now attending an evangelical church and I give them money every week) what I do have a problem with is the LDS church taking temple recommends away from members who don't consistently pay a full tithe. In the LDS church if aren't worthy to attend the temple you can't live with God and Jesus in Heaven, so it is spiritual bribery, no 10% of your income, no God and Jesus in eternity.

 

[twin.spin]

Our ultimate goal is to understand just what supposedly happened and why.

As we've mentioned elsewhere, things aren't adding up.

Here's what I gathered. Former LDS members will feel impugned by the suggestion what happen is being exaggerated or by a LDS person who did such isn't in keeping with the official LDS protocol as a way to keep an image that may not be as the apologist wants it to known ... which post #224 is stating.

Fact is testimonies like LDSsurvivor are very common among people that have left the LDS church for it to be some mystery that needs to be understood in context of it being supposedly happening by the apologists.

Given the stated efforts to "save" everyone they come across, we're wondering if that's not how the people who are "distancing themselves" happen to be feeling.

Not sure what you're invisioning with this, however if I had to guess based on the beginning stentence it would be this (hypothetically):
Some who leave come to understand that LDS doctrines isn't going to "save" rather lead to outer darkness. And being convinced of such understanding, feel they must reach out to those to "save" those they know.

 

[Ironhold]

You don't understand plain English?

So you're leading off with a personal insult?

And in doing so, you are discounting her experiences.

No, I'm seeking information to clarify things that don't sound right.

Remember, I *have* had people lie to me in the past.

There's no where in the Bible that states such a thing.

Tithe

The Old Testament is pretty clear about the importance of tithes, and that's not something Jesus did away with when he taught the higher law.

 

[Ironhold]

This is exactly how I feel, my experience may not be theirs but that doesn't mean it didn't happen and isn't valid.

Funny how my experiences - and the experiences of other posters here - concerning what we've had to deal with at the hands of mainline Christians (I've gotten death threats) is shouted down as lies and slander yet here people are asking me to just "listen and believe".

Some of the things you're talking about, like casually asking for a tithing reduction, are rather out of the norm. Anyone who is LDS is going to be asking you about that as a result.

If more LDS people actually had the guts to say 'yes that's horrible, yes the church was wrong to treat you like that, we as members won't put up with that',

Put yourself in someone else's shoes and re-read that statement.

A lot of people are going to see that as you asking for external validation and nothing more.

instead of coming up with excuses for why the church might have treated you that way

If I was to tell you *my* experiences with bad local leadership, would you believe me?

If I was to explain that I - like many others - had to separate these individuals from the body as a whole, would you believe me?

If I was to talk about how many times I had to be the better person, would you believe me?

Re-read the stories you're telling us. Most of what you've talked about so far is bad experiences with a single person. Think about how that sounds to your audiences... especially given how many people had to deal with a bad leader or two but stayed in the church anyway.

I do have a problem with is the LDS church taking temple recommends away from members who don't consistently pay a full tithe. In the LDS church if aren't worthy to attend the temple you can't live with God and Jesus in Heaven, so it is spiritual bribery, no 10% of your income, no God and Jesus in eternity.

Tithe

Tithing goes back to the Old Testament, and Jesus didn't end that practice.

 

[Ironhold]

Here's what I gathered.

Again, we've all had people lie to us.

Not sure what you're invisioning with this, however if I had to guess based on the beginning stentence it would be this (hypothetically):

Imagine that the neighbor kid finally saves enough money to where they can get that custom, fully-modded street racer they've been wanting.

They're incredibly happy with what they've done, and as part of that happiness they've hopped in their car and started doing laps around the neighborhood.

At all hours.

While flashing their lights, gunning their engine, and blasting the sound system.

This person may be happy, but how long before you and your neighbors lose your collective patience?

 

[Jane_Doe]

I've been following this so-called "conversation" between you and Jane_Doe and Ironhold.
Do you wonder what their ultimate goal is on why they persist when they repeatedly ignore your polite "no thank you, please quit trying to push your faith on me" ?

I have in no way tried to push my faith on LDSSurvier, rather wished her well on her journey and had a pleasant conversation.

If more LDS people actually had the guts to say 'yes that's horrible, yes the church was wrong to treat you like that, we as members won't put up with that', instead of coming up with excuses for why the church might have treated you that way (and basically making it your fault), then the LDS church wouldn't lose so many members.

I have done no of those things and am confused at this statement.

 

[Ironhold]

I have done no of those things and am confused at this statement.

Only thing I can figure is that the effort to ask questions and get more information isn't being well-received.

 

[BigDaddy4]

So you're leading off with a personal insult?

The posts have been written in plain English. You don't seem to understand them. Hence the question. Take it as you want it...

No, I'm seeking information to clarify things that don't sound right.

Remember, I *have* had people lie to me in the past.

Again, you bring your own past prejudices and project them into someone else's experience. I *have* had people lie to me too. Big deal.

Could it not be possible that not all lds bishops are squeaky clean as you would like them to be? At least Jane_Doe admitted that the bishops words/actions were not official church policy. You can't even give LDSsurvivor that much credit.

The Old Testament is pretty clear about the importance of tithes, and that's not something Jesus did away with when he taught the higher law.

For one who belongs to the self-proclaimed "Christ's church", you sure don't know what Jesus Christ actually says about tithing and your church is really stuck in OT law. Please provide any NT Biblical reference that Jesus requires a) a temple recommend, and b) his followers to pay a 10% tithe to keep said temple recommend.

Please remember that you, nor Jane_Doe, are appointed spokespeople for what goes on in the local lds churches. You can speak of your experiences, but they are NOT necessarily reflective of OTHERS' experiences.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Some of the things you're talking about, like casually asking for a tithing reduction, are rather out of the norm. Anyone who is LDS is going to be asking you about that as a result.

Um, no, not "Anyone". My father-in-law is involved in local lds church leadership and has shared a different side of things than you are trying to project here.

 

[twin.spin]

Again, we've all had people lie to us.

True we've all have, except for one that is Jesus.
Again, I appreciated that you submitted Chapter 47 /Salvation / Exaltation voluntarily.

I would ask that you would at some point read what Jesus' answer revealed in the Bible concerning exaltation:

John 6:28-29 KJV
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 11:25-26 KJV
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
Believest thou this?​

Jesus revealed "listen and believe", read it a hundred times if you must ... that is not a lie.

Imagine that the neighbor kid finally saves enough money to where they can get that custom, fully-modded street racer they've been wanting.

They're incredibly happy with what they've done, and as part of that happiness they've hopped in their car and started doing laps around the neighborhood.

At all hours.

While flashing their lights, gunning their engine, and blasting the sound system.

This person may be happy, but how long before you and your neighbors lose your collective patience?

Jesus revealed "listen and believe" (read them again) , ... if such an answer to your ears is the same as you losing your collective patience, then what would be your answer to Jesus' question revealed in John 11:25-26 KJV... "Believest thou this?"

I can only pray in time that you will be lead to understand that Jesus' revealed answer is only "listen and believe" ... he does not reveal a Chapter 47 or something similar.

I can tell you're sincere and hope that you can one day understand that Jesus' revealed answer from the Bible (John 11:25-26 \ John 6:28-29) is just as sincere.