Instituted at Creation

[listed]

They affirm just as I said that the Ten Commandments were given in Eden and that ALL TEN still remain applicable to ALL mankind.

Points you were never able to refute.

No they don't. They don't preach keeping the 7th day sabbath nor do they keep it. They've unfortunately misused the word sabbath.

 

[listed]

Well said, finality reached! Bob Ryan has been refuted.
But be warned, Schwarzenegger the Terminator is a nice one. I just cannot fathom why BobRyan won't accept resurrection from the dead for origin of the Sabbath Day, resurrection from the depths of rebuttal being his mark of the b.... best.

He isn't here to discuss anything.

 

[FireDragon76]

The irony of course is that we rent out our church building to Haitian Seventh Day Adventists. If Adventists really teach that all us non-Sabbatarians are terrible rebels against God, I have to wonder about the wisdom of such a partnership.

 

[listed]

The irony of course is that we rent out our church building to Haitian Seventh Day Adventists. If Adventists really teach that all us non-Sabbatarians are terrible rebels against God, I have to wonder about the wisdom of such a partnership.

That is unfortunate. I do understand trying to help others. But to provide a place to those who attempt to destroy you isn't all that wise.

 

[FireDragon76]

That is unfortunate. I do understand trying to help others. But to provide a place to those who attempt to destroy you isn't all that wise.

Our pastor is just a big-hearted person, I guess, and our church doesn't mind the extra funds as we are in need of them. I just don't think its so great. My impression of Adventism is that it is sectarian in its tone.

 

[listed]

Our pastor is just a big-hearted person, I guess, and our church doesn't mind the extra funds as we are in need of them. I just don't think its so great. My impression of Adventism is that it is sectarian in its tone.

Money rules, doesn't it? Maybe you should approach your pastor about what they do.

 

[FireDragon76]

Money rules, doesn't it? Maybe you should approach your pastor about what they do.

Unfortunately it's the difference between keeping our doors open and shutting them altogether. When you have a congregation where the average age is over 60 and living on a fixed income it puts a strain on everything.

 

[BobRyan]

That's it, I'm not 'standing on simple math', see. I am standing on John 1:10,11; 17,18, Jesus Christ now being the Law of God.

Jesus said "if you would enter into life KEEP the Commandments" -- then Jesus was asked "Which ONES"?

Question - did He say "I am the Law of God now -- keep ME"?

What did He actually say -- given that we don't want to make anything up - what did HE say?

The the quote of Jesus by John a personal disciple of Jesus is lying in John 10. .

What an odd statement to make

Yes it's an odd statement to believe Jesus.

I find your logic "illusive" just then

I wrote about John 1; not about Matthew 19.

True your "Jesus now being the law" ignores the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels - for example in Matthew 19.

I wrote concerning 'Instituted at creation'; not about being kept still in the last days.

I lot of people will agree that it was not right to "take God's name in vain" in Eden and still is not right to do that.

"If you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

I wrote for, the Sabbath's Divine Authenticity; never against it.

assuming you accept the Bible as the Word of God - I am curious - when you quote the Word of God on the "details" -- what exactly does God's Word say the Sabbath Commandment is in your view?

Must it "exclude" Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11 in your view?

 

[BobRyan]

Even though the RCC says they changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, doesn't make it truth.

Lutherans also admit that the RCC did this. .People around "at the time" admitted it.

 

[BobRyan]

As promised here is the proof Dl Moody doesn't preach the keeping of the 7th day sabbath:

Did someone here ask for that proof or did someone here claim that Moody preached against Sunday??

You?

 

[BobRyan]

'a demonstration of how they spoke about time':--
LXX, 'Estai mehn ek mehnos kai sabbaton ek sabbatou' - 'ek' - 'from to'; Nominative - Genitive sequentially 'from one to one-of' the same again, “from one Sabbath to one of the same Sabbaths regularly month after month after month without end”.

"Sabbath after Sabbath" - the 7 day cycle
"from New Moon to New Moon" - the monthly cycle

So then TWO cycles given not one.

just as in the OT "From year to year" did not mean "every minute" or "daily".

The point remains.

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus said "if you would enter into life KEEP the Commandments" -- then Jesus was asked "Which ONES"?

Question - did He say "I am the Law of God now -- keep ME"?

What did He actually say -- given that we don't want to make anything up - what did HE say?

This indicates basic Law-Gospel confusion. We are not justified by keeping any commandments of God. The Law cannot justify us, it only condemns. Your attempt to justify your religion by its law-keeping, while seemingly denying the sufficiency of grace-preaching, is really a condemnation of your own religion and does nothing to commend Sabbath keeping to us.

The good works that are pleasing to God is to care for the orphan and widow in their distress and to remain untainted by the world. Outward religious ceremonies and rites of the old covenant have no place in this religion which is based only on the sufficiency and merits of God's work in Christ for the salvation of the world.

 

[BobRyan]

That's it, I'm not 'standing on simple math', see. I am standing on John 1:10,11; 17,18, Jesus Christ now being the Law of God.

Jesus said "if you would enter into life KEEP the Commandments" -- then Jesus was asked "Which ONES"?

Question - did He say "I am the Law of God now -- keep ME"?

What did He actually say -- given that we don't want to make anything up - what did HE say?

The the quote of Jesus by John a personal disciple of Jesus is lying in John 10. .

What an odd statement to make

Yes it's an odd statement to believe Jesus.

I find your logic "illusive" just then

I wrote about John 1; not about Matthew 19.

True your "Jesus now being the law" ignores the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels - for example in Matthew 19.

I wrote concerning 'Instituted at creation'; not about being kept still in the last days.

I lot of people will agree that it was not right to "take God's name in vain" in Eden and still is not right to do that.

"If you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

I wrote for, the Sabbath's Divine Authenticity; never against it.

assuming you accept the Bible as the Word of God - I am curious - when you quote the Word of God on the "details" -- what exactly does God's Word say the Sabbath Commandment is in your view?

Must it "exclude" Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11 in your view?

This indicates basic Law-Gospel confusion.

Hence my attempt to correct him.

We are not justified by keeping any commandments of God. The Law cannot justify us,

True. We do not claim that the lost are saved the moment they figure out how to "not take God's name in vain". I think everyone sees that point clearly.

That Law is "written on the heart and mind" under the "New Covenant" according to the Bible Jer 31:31-33

"If you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Your attempt to justify your religion by its law-keeping, while seemingly denying the efficacy of grace-preaching, is really a condemnation of your own religion.

The mere "quote" of the Bible texts above is sufficient cause to give rise to expressions of strong objection to it.

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus said "if you would enter into life KEEP the Commandments" -- then Jesus was asked "Which ONES"?

Question - did He say "I am the Law of God now -- keep ME"?

What did He actually say -- given that we don't want to make anything up - what did HE say?



What an odd statement to make



I find your logic "illusive" just then



True your "Jesus now being the law" ignores the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels - for example in Matthew 19.




I lot of people will agree that it was not right to "take God's name in vain" in Eden and still is not right to do that.

"If you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"



assuming you accept the Bible as the Word of God - I am curious - when you quote the Word of God on the "details" -- what exactly does God's Word say the Sabbath Commandment is in your view?

Must it "exclude" Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11 in your view?



Hence my attempt to correct him.



True. We do not claim that the lost are saved the moment they figure out how to "not take God's name in vain". I think everyone sees that point clearly.

That Law is "written on the heart and mind" under the "New Covenant" according to the Bible Jer 31:31-33

"If you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3



The mere "quote" of the Bible texts above is sufficient cause to give rise to expressions of strong objection to it.

Misuse of the Scriptures is an even more egregious act than ignorance of them.

Is the weighty matters of the Law of God really about such picayune matters as what day of the week you worship, or is it rather about loving our neighbors and caring for them? God does not need our good works, so I do not understand how you think its a moral law to worship on Saturday. It does no particular good for my neighbor, for me to worship on saturday vs. sunday, and it does me no particular good either. It is a thing indifferent, and it is idolatry to elevate what is indifferent to what is necessary.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

No they don't. They don't preach keeping the 7th day sabbath nor do they keep it. They've unfortunately misused the word sabbath.

Come on, let's be honest, they unfortunately abused the total concept of "the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD". Yes, THEY, these godly Sunday opportunists JUST like BobRyan abuses them and their abuse of 'the word Sabbath'. NO difference, they all are just plain FALSE when it comes to "the LORD GOD'S, Sabbath Rest Day".

 

[BobRyan]

We are not justified by keeping any commandments of God. The Law cannot justify us,

True. We do not claim that the lost are saved the moment they figure out how to "not take God's name in vain". I think everyone sees that point clearly.

That Law is "written on the heart and mind" under the "New Covenant" according to the Bible Jer 31:31-33

"If you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Your attempt to justify your religion by its law-keeping, while seemingly denying the efficacy of grace-preaching, is really a condemnation of your own religion.

The mere "quote" of the Bible texts above is sufficient cause to give rise to expressions of strong objection to it.

Misuse of the Scriptures is an even more egregious act than ignorance of them.

I agree completely.

Is the weighty matters of the Law of God really about such picayune matters as what day of the week you worship, or is it rather about loving our neighbors and caring for them? God does not need our good works, so I do not understand how you think its a moral law to worship on Saturday. It does no particular good for my neighbor, for me to worship on saturday vs. sunday, and it does me no particular good either. It is a thing indifferent, and it is idolatry to elevate what is indifferent to what is necessary.

Are you saying that if we stand at a great enough distance from the Word of God - all the details vanish?

Still waiting for this question to be addressed.

I wrote for, the Sabbath's Divine Authenticity; never against it.

assuming you accept the Bible as the Word of God - I am curious - when you quote the Word of God on the "details" -- what exactly does God's Word say the Sabbath Commandment is in your view?

Must it "exclude" Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11 in your view?

 

[BobRyan]

God does not need our good works, so I do not understand how you think its a moral law to worship on Saturday. .

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
"the Law defines what sin is and condemns all the world" Romans 3:19-20

Even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and the Catholic Catechism admit to the Obvious Bible fact that the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

in fact even Lutherans themselves admit that the Decalogue - the TEN Commandments are moral code

"The observance of the Lord's Day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the Church." Augsburg Confession of Faith.

"They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord's day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it appears, neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, say they, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments." -Augsburg Confession of Faith, Art. 28, par. 9.


"They [Roman Catholics] allege the change of the Sabbath into the Lord's day, as it seemeth, to the Decalogue [the ten commandments]; and they have no example more in their mouths than they change of the Sabbath. They will needs have the Church's power to be very great, because it hath dispensed with the precept of the Decalogue." The Augsburg Confession, 1530 A.D. (Lutheran), part 2, art 7, in Philip Schaff, the Creeds of Christiandom, 4th Edition, vol 3, p64 [this important statement was made by the Lutherans and written by Melanchthon, only thirteen years after Luther nailed his theses to the door and began the Reformation].

"For up to this day mankind has absolutely trifled with the original and most special revelation of the Holy God, the ten words written upon the tables of the Law from Sinai."-"Crown Theological Library," page I78.


"I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments...Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity abrogate sin also."-MARTIN LUTHER, Spiritual Antichrist," pages 71, 72.

 

[prodromos]

Where does Scripture record Adam and Eve keeping the Sabbath? Prior to the fall they did not labor any day.
Where does Scripture record Enoch keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Noah keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Abraham keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Jacob keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record anyone prior to Moses keeping the Sabbath?

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Misuse of the Scriptures is an even more egregious act than ignorance of them. Is the weighty matters of the Law of God really about such picayune matters as what day of the week you worship, or is it rather about loving our neighbors and caring for them? God does not need our good works, so I do not understand how you think its a moral law to worship on Saturday. It does no particular good for my neighbor, for me to worship on saturday vs. sunday, and it does me no particular good either. It is a thing indifferent, and it is idolatry to elevate what is indifferent to what is necessary.

You call 'what day of the week' was GOD'S "Day" which HE "the Lord, made for man", which He, "using the exceeding greatness of His Power, RAISED CHRIST from the dead" on, "giving you", o "People of God", "the Sabbath", for the sole and 'particular good' of "the Body of Christ's Own" TO WORSHIP HIM ON, a petty and unreal, 'picayune matter', 'a thing indifferent and idolatry'!

God, have mercy on us!

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Where does Scripture record Adam and Eve keeping the Sabbath? Prior to the fall they did not labor any day.
Where does Scripture record Enoch keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Noah keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Abraham keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record Jacob keeping the Sabbath?
Where does Scripture record anyone prior to Moses keeping the Sabbath?

Where does Scripture record Adam and Eve keeping the Sabbath?
Scripture records Adam and Eve were driven out on the Sabbath, after their fall. They did not labour one day; God did, having worked his utmost, to finish all his works that Selfsame BONE-Day, "the Seventh Day".

Where does Scripture record Enoch keeping the Sabbath?
Scripture does not record Enoch kept the Sabbath. Who said he did?

Where does Scripture record Noah keeping the Sabbath?
Scripture does not record Noah kept the Sabbath. It records God "that Selfsame BONE-Day of the rain" locked him close inside his coffin he had made for his watery grave of one year long, and exited on the Sabbath Day.

Where does Scripture record Abraham keeping the Sabbath?
Scripture does not record Abraham kept the Sabbath. It records God "that Selfsame BONE-Day" closed Covenant with Abraham "the Selfsame BONE-Day 430 years after", God carried Israel out of Egypt, up, from their Red Sea grave, and "Therefore" commanded them, "Remember the Sabbath Day".

Where does Scripture record Jacob keeping the Sabbath?
Jacob, "Deceiver", Israel? who has never been faithful to this day, who not to this day, has kept the Lord's Day? Who says Israel keeps the Sabbath? They, and SDA!

Where does Scripture record anyone prior to Moses keeping the Sabbath?
Scripture has not recorded anyone prior to Moses who kept the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD; there was none other than God who did.