Instituted at Creation

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Until you read Exodus 20:11 and Genesis 2:1-3 where we are told that the Genesis 2:1-3 details "alone" make the Sabbath Holy

Yet it is not revealed to mankind until the Exodus, and then only to the Jews.

No text says that - just as no text says "it was not revealed to mankind that it is sin to take God's name in vain until the Exodus, and then only to the Jews"

Making stuff up is not the same as having Bible support of it.

 

[BobRyan]

The command to not take God's name in vain is not mentioned once prior to Moses.

The point remains -- you are using a straw argument that
the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 rejects,
that D.L. Moody rejects,
that the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 rejects,
that the RCC rejects..
that the Bible rejects.

=======================
From The Longer Catechism of The Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church • Pravoslavieto.com

65. Where may we find the elements of the doctrine of charity?

In the Ten Commandments of the Law of God.

490. You said that these Commandments were given to the people of Israel: must we, then, also walk by them?

We must: for they are in substance the same law which, in the words of St. Paul, has been written in the hearts of all men, that all should walk by it.

491. Did Jesus Christ teach men to walk by the Ten Commandments?

He bade men, if they would attain to everlasting life, to keep the Commandments and taught us to understand and fulfill them more perfectly than had been done before he came. Matt xix. 17, and v.

On the Division of the Commandments into Two Tables.

492. What means the division of the Ten Commandments into two tables?

Yet it is not revealed to mankind until the Exodus, and then only to the Jews.

Someone needs to inform The Longer Catechism of The Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church • Pravoslavieto.com

 

[listed]

A lot of people will agree that it was not right to "take God's name in vain" in Eden and still is not right to do that.

"If you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Guess it can be pointed out again that John 14:15 and Exodus 20:6 are different Speakers. John 1:17 says Jesus didn't bring or give the law.

In regard to your 1 John 5:2-3 partial out of context quote implying it's the ten commandments being talked about why don't you just go ahead and add the word ten? John says God commandment is: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. It says nothing about the law or ten commandments.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

So what? You're implying this against John 3, 5, 10, 14 and 15. Those chapters refute your idea, not to mention OT passages conveniently ignored.
The Matthew 19 passage you quote above is taking it out of context for a proof text. You do this all the time.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Is Jesus then stealing when He says: If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love? Here Jesus takes personal possession of His own commandments with the word "my."

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandment of God"
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

How does either of these void John 3, 5, 10 and 15? It's OK if you want to pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

Exactly why you don't quote John 15:10

 

[listed]

No text says that - just as no text says "it was not revealed to mankind that it is sin to take God's name in vain until the Exodus, and then only to the Jews"

Making stuff up is not the same as having Bible support of it.

Nothing but a superficial objection of no value.

 

[listed]

The command to not take God's name in vain is not mentioned once prior to Moses.

The point remains -- you are using a straw argument that
the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 rejects,
that D.L. Moody rejects,
that the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 rejects,
that the RCC rejects..
that the Bible rejects.

I find it interesting you seem to know more about what those statements say than the authors or the people who subscribe to them. Your contention is those people have no idea what their religion says. Do you have some basis for this other than the teaching of your church?

=======================
From The Longer Catechism of The Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church • Pravoslavieto.com

65. Where may we find the elements of the doctrine of charity?

In the Ten Commandments of the Law of God.

490. You said that these Commandments were given to the people of Israel: must we, then, also walk by them?

We must: for they are in substance the same law which, in the words of St. Paul, has been written in the hearts of all men, that all should walk by it.

491. Did Jesus Christ teach men to walk by the Ten Commandments?

He bade men, if they would attain to everlasting life, to keep the Commandments and taught us to understand and fulfill them more perfectly than had been done before he came. Matt xix. 17, and v.

On the Division of the Commandments into Two Tables.

492. What means the division of the Ten Commandments into two tables?



Someone needs to inform The Longer Catechism of The Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church • Pravoslavieto.com

No you need to understand what they say and quit demeaning the religion of other people without basis. No I'm not RCC and won't ever be.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Genesis 2:1-3 refers only to the seventh day. It does not speak of the Sabbath.

"The Seventh Day IS the Sabbath OF THE LORD." Who said that? He who "made the Sabbath" said that-- "made": "the Seventh Day, Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD"!

WHEN said God that He "made the Sabbath"? Not in the OT, but in the New Testament! "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets", never in time past spoke unto the fathers by the prophets, saying He "made, the Sabbath". But "in THESE LAST DAYS", God, "speaking by the Son", Jesus Christ our Lord, spoke and said, "the Sabbath was MADE".

 

[BobRyan]

"The Seventh Day IS the Sabbath OF THE LORD." Who said that? He who "made the Sabbath" said that-- "made": "the Seventh Day, Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD"!

WHEN said God that He "made the Sabbath"? Not in the OT, but in the New Testament! "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets", never in time past spoke unto the fathers by the prophets, saying He "made, the Sabbath". But "in THESE LAST DAYS", God, "speaking by the Son", Jesus Christ our Lord, spoke and said, "the Sabbath was MADE".

"MADE it holy" Exodus 20:11

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
The command to not take God's name in vain is not mentioned once prior to Moses.

The point remains -- you are using a straw argument that
the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 rejects,
that D.L. Moody rejects,
that the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 rejects,
that the RCC rejects..
that the Bible rejects.

I find it interesting you seem to know more about what those statements say than the authors or the people who subscribe to them. Your contention is those people have no idea what their religion says. .

Totally false... as we both know

 

[BobRyan]

That's it, I'm not 'standing on simple math', see. I am standing on John 1:10,11; 17,18, Jesus Christ now being the Law of God.

A lot of people will agree that it was not right to "take God's name in vain" in Eden and still is not right to do that.

"If you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP my Commandments" Exodus 20:6
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

I'll start with:
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Please note Jesus said to keep His commandments. Jesus didn't say keep My Father's commandments

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandment of God"
"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3


John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

 

[BobRyan]

Yet it is not revealed to mankind until the Exodus, and then only to the Jews.

Exodus 20:11 says it is true in Genesis 2:1-3

The point remains

 

[BobRyan]

He will only point you to Exodus 16. But he can't prove anything prior even with Genesis 2.

Until you actually read the posts

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Genesis 2:1-3 refers only to the seventh day. It does not speak of the Sabbath.

Genesis does not use the word 'Sabbath (Day)' Noun; it uses the Noun "the Seventh Day God, blessed and hallowed, and finished and rested" on, the day which followed "the Sixth Day" and began with "the evening cool of day" after sunset, but tragically ended for man at sunrise next Sabbath Day's morning breaking in the east. "So God drove man out", to start earn his living in the sweat of his brow tilling the earth that Seventh Day daylight immediately! Genesis 3:23,24. "No rest for the wicked!"
That was why the whole earth had to wait for the REDEMPTION OF GOD before any could hope to enjoy "the Sabbath Rest Day OF THE LORD GOD" with the LORD GOD through Jesus Christ.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

"MADE it holy" Exodus 20:11

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Ja BobRyan, typical. My KJ says "hallowed" from the one Hebrew word 'kadesh' - 'to set apart'.

Genesis 2:8-24 tells how God "made the Sabbath for man", "behold, The Man" Jesus the Christ in the darkness and Night of soul's anguish and anxiety "UNTO DEATH", Gethsemane in Genesis, Genesis 3:8-24!

 

[BobRyan]

Ja BobRyan, typical. My KJ says "hallowed" from the one Hebrew word 'kadesh' - 'to set apart'.

Indeed same word as you find in Genesis 2.

That Exodus 20 quote is from the Ten Commandments - it is pretty hard to find any Bible student today that would deny that the Sabbath was holy -- as stated in the Ten.

 

[BobRyan]

Genesis does not use the word 'Sabbath (Day)' Noun; it uses the Noun "the Seventh Day .

j

And so does the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:11

The point remains.

What is more - Exodus 20:11 declares that the Genesis 2:1-3 details alone had already made it holy.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Indeed same word as you find in Genesis 2.

That Exodus 20 quote is from the Ten Commandments - it is pretty hard to find any Bible student today that would deny that the Sabbath was holy -- as stated in the Ten.

Who denies 'that the Sabbath was holy'?

That was not the issue, and you full well KNOW it! The issue was the one you raised in denial of the TRUTH and FACT which I stated,

Joelthe vicious 63
"The Seventh Day IS the Sabbath OF THE LORD." Who said that? He who "made the Sabbath" said that—He who "made": "the Seventh Day, Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD"!
WHEN said God that He "made the Sabbath"? Not in the OT, but in the New Testament! "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets", never in time past spoke unto the fathers by the prophets, saying, He "made the Sabbath". But "in THESE LAST DAYS", God, "speaking by the Son", Jesus Christ our Lord, spoke and said, "the Sabbath was MADE".

SDA!

 

[BobRyan]

Ja BobRyan, typical. My KJ says "hallowed" from the one Hebrew word 'kadesh' - 'to set apart'.

Indeed same word as you find in Genesis 2.

That Exodus 20 quote is from the Ten Commandments - it is pretty hard to find any Bible student today that would deny that the Sabbath was holy -- as stated in the Ten.

Who denies 'that the Sabbath was holy'?

And was made Holy (past tense) according to both Genesis 2 and Exodus 20:11 at creation

And so then Exodus 20:8 dictates that man is to "keep it" holy. Keep it as a Holy Day.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Indeed same word as you find in Genesis 2.

That Exodus 20 quote is from the Ten Commandments - it is pretty hard to find any Bible student today that would deny that the Sabbath was holy -- as stated in the Ten.



And was made Holy (past tense) according to both Genesis 2 and Exodus 20:11 at creation

And so then Exodus 20:8 dictates that man is to "keep it" holy. Keep it as a Holy Day.

Now it has become a deliberate lie -- your's!
Whichever 'tense', it is NOT Q~_was_made_ Holy (past tense) according to both Genesis 2 and Exodus 20:11 at creation~Q!

In Genesis 2:3 'at creation' it is 'hehgiasen', "hallowed", not 'indeed same word as you find' in the New Testament only, 'egeneto' - "_was_made_" Mark 2:27;
In Exodus 20:11 at Sinai, it is 'hehgiasen', "hallowed", not 'indeed same word as you find' in the New Testament only, 'egeneto' - "_was_made_" Mark 2:27.
SDA!
And so then Exodus 20:16 dictates that man "shalt not bear false witness" and keep his trap shut.

 

[BobRyan]

Ja BobRyan, typical. My KJ says "hallowed" from the one Hebrew word 'kadesh' - 'to set apart'.

Indeed same word as you find in Genesis 2.

That Exodus 20 quote is from the Ten Commandments - it is pretty hard to find any Bible student today that would deny that the Sabbath was holy -- as stated in the Ten.

Who denies 'that the Sabbath was holy'?

And was made Holy (past tense) according to both Genesis 2 and Exodus 20:11 at creation

And so then Exodus 20:8 dictates that man is to "keep it" holy. Keep it as a Holy Day.

Now it has become a deliberate lie -- your's!

The more emotionalism and vitriol - the more you make my case for me.

Genesis 2
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. (NKJV)

3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.(ESV)

3 And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making.(YLT)

Sanctified -- in Genesis 2:3
qadash The KJV translates Strong's H6942 in the following manner: sanctify (108x), hallow (25x), dedicate (10x), holy (7x), prepare (7x), consecrate (5x), appointed (1x), bid (1x), purified (1x), miscellaneous (7x).


================== Exodus 20:11

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

11 for six days hath Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that [is] in them, and resteth in the seventh day; therefore hath Jehovah blessed the Sabbath-day, and doth sanctify it. YLT

Sanctified -- in Ex 20:11
qadash The KJV translates Strong's H6942 in the following manner: sanctify (108x), hallow (25x), dedicate (10x), holy (7x), prepare (7x), consecrate (5x), appointed (1x), bid (1x), purified (1x), miscellaneous (7x).

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Indeed same word as you find in Genesis 2.

That Exodus 20 quote is from the Ten Commandments - it is pretty hard to find any Bible student today that would deny that the Sabbath was holy -- as stated in the Ten.



And was made Holy (past tense) according to both Genesis 2 and Exodus 20:11 at creation

And so then Exodus 20:8 dictates that man is to "keep it" holy. Keep it as a Holy Day.



The more emotionalism and vitriol - the more you make my case for me.

Genesis 2
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. (NKJV)

3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.(ESV)

3 And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making.(YLT)

Sanctified -- in Genesis 2:3
qadash The KJV translates Strong's H6942 in the following manner: sanctify (108x), hallow (25x), dedicate (10x), holy (7x), prepare (7x), consecrate (5x), appointed (1x), bid (1x), purified (1x), miscellaneous (7x).


================== Exodus 20:11

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

11 for six days hath Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that [is] in them, and resteth in the seventh day; therefore hath Jehovah blessed the Sabbath-day, and doth sanctify it. YLT

Sanctified -- in Ex 20:11
qadash The KJV translates Strong's H6942 in the following manner: sanctify (108x), hallow (25x), dedicate (10x), holy (7x), prepare (7x), consecrate (5x), appointed (1x), bid (1x), purified (1x), miscellaneous (7x).

Have it your own way, old chap. Who cares?